Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 16:32:32 GMT
Irish - absolutely spot on. Our expectations were raised to the extent that we thought that rag-bag Rovers could now compete in money-bags Championship. We were a tad hasty... The problem was, you had Nick Day telling people that “they had more money than God” (although I’m not sure what that means). It then spread quickly that they had bags of money to spend on “rag-bag Rovers “. I Cannot recall the Al Qadi family ever stating that they had pots of money to spend, but many fans got carried away. Did they do enough to dampen down expectation when there were headlines being thrown about suggesting that Rovers were now amongst the richest clubs in the country? Or did the new owners accept congratulations for the team that Higgs assembled getting promoted from L2 to L1 and lead us to believe that the same people who delivered Wembley were about to take Higgs plans for UWE and deliver something far better? So far all we have is promotion achieved with an inherited team and a pile of debt, and UWE lost. Maybe in time it'll all come good, but when we can't even be told what the plans are for the training ground it doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. Add to that, we can't be told why UWE didn't happen, but it was all UWE's fault because they took us 1 step forward and 4 back and didn't respond to deadlines (no mention of whether the deadlines were ever agreed or accepted) and the entire thing is getting very messy and hard to understand. But don't worry, Plan B is a beautiful piece of land is BS7, which it now sounds as if they have no plans for whatsoever as the suggestion from last night seems to be that they are still looking for an alternative site. Higgs would be getting slaughtered for this by now. BTW, I'm not a Higgs fan, far from it.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 14, 2018 16:32:42 GMT
The point is Anne, that Wael stated that we couldn't spend above a certain amount because we were governed by FFP. The statement was wrong for 2 reasons, as you correctly identify, we have SCMP at our level, and, if part of the objective was to create competition, the rules are hopeless, you can spend as much as you like, as long as the losses are covered. FFP rules for the first and 2nd divisions are a bit more robust. Does spending loads more than everyone around you guarantee success? Ask Wolves and Citeh. But probably best not to ask Man Utd fans tonight Just because the loopholes are there, doesn't mean anyone has to use them. So my interpretation of Wael's words (rightly or wrongly) is that we are playing by the rules. I think we've been down the road of pouring money in willy nilly previously but it didn't get us very far. There is one big thing the owners either don’t pay heed to or don’t care about and that is Bristol Effie city. We ARE a 2 team city regardless if Steve Hamer wants to play at being Nelson, I see no Ships, while we apparently are in good hands, they are pulling away from us by the day and their PR and plans for Cat A academy abd initiatives for kids and so much more, are turning us into the country cousins. If people are happy with that then god bless them but I’m not and if Rovers are to garner new support then we need more from the owners and we can’t afford to wait. SL could well be right that in years to come no one will talk of Rovers. They are light years ahead of us now let alone with us waiting and waiting on apparent planning etc. We may exist as a club but we will genuinely be eventually dwarved by them. We need some urgency and not more waiting and then failure, at the final juncture.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,197
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 14, 2018 16:40:40 GMT
Irish - absolutely spot on. Our expectations were raised to the extent that we thought that rag-bag Rovers could now compete in money-bags Championship. We were a tad hasty... The problem was, you had Nick Day telling people that “they had more money than God” (although I’m not sure what that means). It then spread quickly that they had bags of money to spend on “rag-bag Rovers “. I Cannot recall the Al Qadi family ever stating that they had pots of money to spend, but many fans got carried away. I don't think they ever did state they had "pots of money to spend". They did however raise expectations in relation to completing a move to the UWE. For whatever reason - that did not happen. It would have been the single biggest step forward for the Club since we lost the freehold to Eastville in 1940. Everyone was understandably bitterly disappointed. We were then told 6 months ago that the Memorial Stadium was going to be totally redeveloped by a team who had built "not 2,3 or 4 but a dozen stadiums". Expectations were raised again. However nothing has happened. That is why there is still disquiet. At the very least that is very bad expectation management.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Mar 14, 2018 17:30:50 GMT
Irish - absolutely spot on. Our expectations were raised to the extent that we thought that rag-bag Rovers could now compete in money-bags Championship. We were a tad hasty... The problem was, you had Nick Day telling people that “they had more money than God” (although I’m not sure what that means). It then spread quickly that they had bags of money to spend on “rag-bag Rovers “. I Cannot recall the Al Qadi family ever stating that they had pots of money to spend, but many fans got carried away. Exactly this. Wael quashed the billionaire talk from the off as nonsense, but the local media couldn’t have bleated about it any more if they tried. The Al Qadi’s have never claimed to be worth this or that. Some seem to have a problem accepting this as truth. Your run of the mill Gashead only has themselves to blame, if they went and let themselves become duped by Radio Bristol, Twents, Durden or that nause Matthias Kurth over at ITV West. .
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:12:09 GMT
"To the statement of "oh well it's their money" it isn't quite just their money because they have secured their investment against our home. So that charge for the office is eating up liquidity in the mem. "It isn't "our home" the Al Qadi family own it, what don't you understand about that? The President CLEARLY explained, that he didn't see it as a debt. Now I understood that statement....... Seems you're falling into the trap others are on the other forum and accepting we are no longer fans but customers. As we all know customers will go where they perceive they are getting the best deal. As to the office in London if it is provided for the use of Dwane Sports then I would've hoped that a shareholder would've asked for confirmation that the cost of the office is offset against the revolving credit facility provided by Dwane Sports/HAQ. But from what I'm reading I'm guessing that question wasn't asked. If the office is for the football club then I would've hoped there would've been an incredulous gasp from the shareholders. At the very least as a shareholder I would be asking what tangible value it has brought to the club and just who it is that they are entertaining in this office. On the face of it I just can't get over a league one football club renting an office in the most expensive part of the country whilst retaining two staff (presumably full time?) when the two incumbents who would use it are hardly ever there. It sounds like a total vanity project, although given Wael's seeming love of the limelight this should hardly be much of a surprise...
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:29:00 GMT
I guess we can argue over semantics and interpretations, but it is there money secured against The Mem. Have we reached the apocalypse of liabilities exceeding assets yet, The Doomsday scenario that many are prophesising? Perhaps the end of days shall come to pass or maybe it just won't
All they have done differently compared to the previous ownership is secured there loan against The Mem, which they own and can do what they want with whether the money is secured against it or not.
People can criticise there ownership and running of the club, but I struggle to see what they have done that is worse or particularly different than anything that has happened before them in terms of financing the club, yet is now painted as something sinister
I can't say I speak for everyone but I am sure much of the discomfort stems from having charges and interest owed to a party of whom we know very little about their true intentions. Under previous regimes we have had the steadying hand of people like Geoff Dunford and Nick Higgs who for all their faults were fans of the club and would be loathe to sell us down the river unless all else fails. It really is quite worrying that we owe so much debt to a family from the other side of the world who come from an investment banking background and where the brother in charge of finance is said to not be a fan of football. Read that again and tell me if you find no part of that sentence duly unconcerning because from where I am sitting it is exactly the sort of position no football club wants to find itself. I must also echo the point about mixed messages. We have a credit facility secured against the stadium and yet money is now not an object so racking up debts of 3 million a year is nothing to worry about? I'm afraid the more time passes the more I think that this is all going to end in tears- Gashead tears.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 18:34:33 GMT
The problem was, you had Nick Day telling people that “they had more money than God” (although I’m not sure what that means). It then spread quickly that they had bags of money to spend on “rag-bag Rovers “. I Cannot recall the Al Qadi family ever stating that they had pots of money to spend, but many fans got carried away. Exactly this. Wael quashed the billionaire talk from the off as nonsense, but the local media couldn’t have bleated about it any more if they tried. The Al Qadi’s have never claimed to be worth this or that. Some seem to have a problem accepting this as truth. Your run of the mill Gashead only has themselves to blame, if they went and let themselves become duped by Radio Bristol, Twents, Durden or that nause Matthias Kurth over at ITV West. . I wouldn't say he quashed it at all. He gave that mischievous smile and played it down by saying it was evolution not revolution- looking back he seemed very careful with his words and for good reason because the fanbase would have been asking questions a lot sooner. I would say he let us believe what we wanted so as not to ruin the honeymoon period. He certainly spoke of finance not being a problem for the stadium build and not reliant on the Sainsbury's court case. You need to have a few quid behind you to be so casual about financing a stadoum like UWE.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Mar 14, 2018 19:38:23 GMT
I guess we can argue over semantics and interpretations, but it is there money secured against The Mem. Have we reached the apocalypse of liabilities exceeding assets yet, The Doomsday scenario that many are prophesising? Perhaps the end of days shall come to pass or maybe it just won't
All they have done differently compared to the previous ownership is secured there loan against The Mem, which they own and can do what they want with whether the money is secured against it or not.
People can criticise there ownership and running of the club, but I struggle to see what they have done that is worse or particularly different than anything that has happened before them in terms of financing the club, yet is now painted as something sinister
I can't say I speak for everyone but I am sure much of the discomfort stems from having charges and interest owed to a party of whom we know very little about their true intentions. Under previous regimes we have had the steadying hand of people like Geoff Dunford and Nick Higgs who for all their faults were fans of the club and would be loathe to sell us down the river unless all else fails. It really is quite worrying that we owe so much debt to a family from the other side of the world who come from an investment banking background and where the brother in charge of finance is said to not be a fan of football. Read that again and tell me if you find no part of that sentence duly unconcerning because from where I am sitting it is exactly the sort of position no football club wants to find itself. I must also echo the point about mixed messages. We have a credit facility secured against the stadium and yet money is now not an object so racking up debts of 3 million a year is nothing to worry about? I'm afraid the more time passes the more I think that this is all going to end in tears- Gashead tears. Im not suggesting its perfect, but what you say amounts to we are owned by the unknown rather than a Rovers fan, but we know from history being a Rovers fan doesnt make a great owner necessarily, only that motivations may be different. Its like people picking the Wael quote that it has been more difficult owning a club than expected as some sort of stick to beat him. I am sure Nick Higgs never expected it to be as complicated as it was. Again I dont suggest what we have is or has been perfect, but people talk about mixed messages, talk about impending doom, yet they have still built up things at the club that were non existant under previous ownership. They say they are here to stay. All I can do is take that at face value.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 20:05:51 GMT
I can't say I speak for everyone but I am sure much of the discomfort stems from having charges and interest owed to a party of whom we know very little about their true intentions. Under previous regimes we have had the steadying hand of people like Geoff Dunford and Nick Higgs who for all their faults were fans of the club and would be loathe to sell us down the river unless all else fails. It really is quite worrying that we owe so much debt to a family from the other side of the world who come from an investment banking background and where the brother in charge of finance is said to not be a fan of football. Read that again and tell me if you find no part of that sentence duly unconcerning because from where I am sitting it is exactly the sort of position no football club wants to find itself. I must also echo the point about mixed messages. We have a credit facility secured against the stadium and yet money is now not an object so racking up debts of 3 million a year is nothing to worry about? I'm afraid the more time passes the more I think that this is all going to end in tears- Gashead tears. Im not suggesting its perfect, but what you say amounts to we are owned by the unknown rather than a Rovers fan, but we know from history being a Rovers fan doesnt make a great owner necessarily, only that motivations may be different. Its like people picking the Wael quote that it has been more difficult owning a club than expected as some sort of stick to beat him. I am sure Nick Higgs never expected it to be as complicated as it was. Again I dont suggest what we have is or has been perfect, but people talk about mixed messages, talk about impending doom, yet they have still built up things at the club that were non existant under previous ownership. They say they are here to stay. All I can do is take that at face value. No previous owners have told supporters that their views aren't important because the owners have, what was it, not 1 or 2 or 3 etc, but I think the 12 best stadium building experts on the case. Now it turns out they haven't even decided on a location. This is where it starts to unravel for me, when what's said doesn't appear to be consistent.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Mar 14, 2018 22:07:28 GMT
Would that be the same GD who was vilified for his comment about the club falling before the board did, along with his comment about his pension? And the same NH who saw "no need for a review" when we were "sleepwalking into oblivion"?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 23:50:11 GMT
Just because the loopholes are there, doesn't mean anyone has to use them. So my interpretation of Wael's words (rightly or wrongly) is that we are playing by the rules. I think we've been down the road of pouring money in willy nilly previously but it didn't get us very far. There is one big thing the owners either don’t pay heed to or don’t care about and that is Bristol Effie city. We ARE a 2 team city regardless if Steve Hamer wants to play at being Nelson, I see no Ships, while we apparently are in good hands, they are pulling away from us by the day and their PR and plans for Cat A academy abd initiatives for kids and so much more, are turning us into the country cousins. If people are happy with that then god bless them but I’m not and if Rovers are to garner new support then we need more from the owners and we can’t afford to wait. SL could well be right that in years to come no one will talk of Rovers. They are light years ahead of us now let alone with us waiting and waiting on apparent planning etc. We may exist as a club but we will genuinely be eventually dwarved by them. We need some urgency and not more waiting and then failure, at the final juncture. There ahead of us because 1 person gave them about £100m,simple as that. We havnt got anyone to do that and wael has never suggested he would be a steve lansdown.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 23:57:55 GMT
I guess we can argue over semantics and interpretations, but it is there money secured against The Mem. Have we reached the apocalypse of liabilities exceeding assets yet, The Doomsday scenario that many are prophesising? Perhaps the end of days shall come to pass or maybe it just won't
All they have done differently compared to the previous ownership is secured there loan against The Mem, which they own and can do what they want with whether the money is secured against it or not.
People can criticise there ownership and running of the club, but I struggle to see what they have done that is worse or particularly different than anything that has happened before them in terms of financing the club, yet is now painted as something sinister
I can't say I speak for everyone but I am sure much of the discomfort stems from having charges and interest owed to a party of whom we know very little about their true intentions. Under previous regimes we have had the steadying hand of people like Geoff Dunford and Nick Higgs who for all their faults were fans of the club and would be loathe to sell us down the river unless all else fails. It really is quite worrying that we owe so much debt to a family from the other side of the world who come from an investment banking background and where the brother in charge of finance is said to not be a fan of football. Read that again and tell me if you find no part of that sentence duly unconcerning because from where I am sitting it is exactly the sort of position no football club wants to find itself. I must also echo the point about mixed messages. We have a credit facility secured against the stadium and yet money is now not an object so racking up debts of 3 million a year is nothing to worry about? I'm afraid the more time passes the more I think that this is all going to end in tears- Gashead tears. The steadying hand of nick higgs? Your rewriting history i believe,higgs had got us into a world of trouble both on and off the field.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 0:07:43 GMT
I understand people taking a neutral view of the owners but dont really understand the posters on this thread who have a negative agenda designed to undermine the owners despite having not one shred of evidence to support their slurs against them. Luckily only about 20 people ever post on here so it dosnt much matter.
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472
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Post by Captain Jayho on Mar 15, 2018 5:14:49 GMT
Irish - absolutely spot on. Our expectations were raised to the extent that we thought that rag-bag Rovers could now compete in money-bags Championship. We were a tad hasty... The problem was, you had Nick Day telling people that “they had more money than God” (although I’m not sure what that means). It then spread quickly that they had bags of money to spend on “rag-bag Rovers “. I Cannot recall the Al Qadi family ever stating that they had pots of money to spend, but many fans got carried away. No they didn't. In fact Wael was at pains to explain that they were really not that rich and wouldn't be throwing cash around like confetti so fair play to him because that marker was in the sand from the start. But despite that when you've been rag bag your whole life and a consortium from the middle east suddenly waltzes in, clears your debt, tells you the UWE is the lynchpin of their takeover and says that they're going to build you a cat 2 academy training ground - it's not unreasonable to get a little excited at that point... And then feel let down when the training ground is downgraded, the stadium deal falls through and we can't build a fence without some kind of drama.
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 15, 2018 9:43:50 GMT
The problem was, you had Nick Day telling people that “they had more money than God” (although I’m not sure what that means). It then spread quickly that they had bags of money to spend on “rag-bag Rovers “. I Cannot recall the Al Qadi family ever stating that they had pots of money to spend, but many fans got carried away. No they didn't. In fact Wael was at pains to explain that they were really not that rich and wouldn't be throwing cash around like confetti so fair play to him because that marker was in the sand from the start. But despite that when you've been rag bag your whole life and a consortium from the middle east suddenly waltzes in, clears your debt, tells you the UWE is the lynchpin of their takeover and says that they're going to build you a cat 2 academy training ground - it's not unreasonable to get a little excited at that point... And then feel let down when the training ground is downgraded, the stadium deal falls through and we can't build a fence without some kind of drama. what the Captain said
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 15, 2018 9:44:18 GMT
No they didn't. In fact Wael was at pains to explain that they were really not that rich and wouldn't be throwing cash around like confetti so fair play to him because that marker was in the sand from the start. But despite that when you've been rag bag your whole life and a consortium from the middle east suddenly waltzes in, clears your debt, tells you the UWE is the lynchpin of their takeover and says that they're going to build you a cat 2 academy training ground - it's not unreasonable to get a little excited at that point... And then feel let down when the training ground is downgraded, the stadium deal falls through and we can't build a fence without some kind of drama. what the Captain said plus leakages
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 15, 2018 11:36:24 GMT
beam-backs have been a good innovation though, haven't they?
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Post by droitwichgas on Mar 15, 2018 12:42:42 GMT
beam-backs have been a good innovation though, haven't they? Wasn't the Cambridge cup tie under NH's ownership one of the first? Although they've been made a lot easier to put on this season thanks to the games being broadcast live by iFellow.
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Post by droitwichgas on Mar 15, 2018 12:54:03 GMT
There is one big thing the owners either don’t pay heed to or don’t care about and that is Bristol Effie city. We ARE a 2 team city regardless if Steve Hamer wants to play at being Nelson, I see no Ships, while we apparently are in good hands, they are pulling away from us by the day and their PR and plans for Cat A academy abd initiatives for kids and so much more, are turning us into the country cousins. If people are happy with that then god bless them but I’m not and if Rovers are to garner new support then we need more from the owners and we can’t afford to wait. SL could well be right that in years to come no one will talk of Rovers. They are light years ahead of us now let alone with us waiting and waiting on apparent planning etc. We may exist as a club but we will genuinely be eventually dwarved by them. We need some urgency and not more waiting and then failure, at the final juncture. There ahead of us because 1 person gave them about £100m,simple as that. We havnt got anyone to do that and wael has never suggested he would be a steve lansdown. I don't get this argument as the only way we will get a new stadium is if somebody funds the £40m/50m build cost, so what's the difference between Lansdown paying for it at AG and the ALQ's funding the build for Rovers? Either they are leading us down the path and they have no intention of funding a new stadium or they are going to have secure funding similar to Lansdown, once ongoing losses, The Colony and a new stadium are all eventually paid for in say 5 or 10 years time?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,278
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 15, 2018 15:42:49 GMT
There is one big thing the owners either don’t pay heed to or don’t care about and that is Bristol Effie city. We ARE a 2 team city regardless if Steve Hamer wants to play at being Nelson, I see no Ships, while we apparently are in good hands, they are pulling away from us by the day and their PR and plans for Cat A academy abd initiatives for kids and so much more, are turning us into the country cousins. If people are happy with that then god bless them but I’m not and if Rovers are to garner new support then we need more from the owners and we can’t afford to wait. SL could well be right that in years to come no one will talk of Rovers. They are light years ahead of us now let alone with us waiting and waiting on apparent planning etc. We may exist as a club but we will genuinely be eventually dwarved by them. We need some urgency and not more waiting and then failure, at the final juncture. There ahead of us because 1 person gave them about £100m,simple as that. We havnt got anyone to do that and wael has never suggested he would be a steve lansdown. But he’s suggested lots but not delivered. Smoke and mirrors plus a cushy office in London do not a new stadium make. Revitalised mem my hairy arse
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