irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 16, 2018 17:06:58 GMT
Yes, at last. I guess this will mean more bad publicity for cricket whenever it comes to court. Silly man, may have to pay a high price for a moment of idiocy. I think a heavy fine, suspended sentence but time will tell. The one day win was as you say, a completely different story. It would have been easy perhaps or understandable if once Australia had posted 300 England had been beaten but the way the batsmen responded was remarkable. I know they had a few players who hadn’t been in the Ashes such as Roy and Morgan but the change in Moeen Ali and even Joe Root was strange. Looked like a case where they took a different mindset onto the pitch. Let’s hope they can keep it up. I wonder if the time delay was a good thing for Stokes - meant they were thinking about the likelihood of which charges would stick (I speak as someone with no understanding of this process at all so it's guess work). Ie. Affray is obviously a much better result for Stokes then GBH would be I suppose. Whatever happens it's a massive penalty for a moment of madness - the frustrating thing from the ECB's perspectives is that it is common knowledge that Stokes had issues in this direction. He's even talked about it before and how he had changed his attitude and approach because it was holding him back. So it's not like this is 'lesson learned' it's lesson failed to have been learned which is concerning because obviously the message didn't entirely get through. It's an odd situation with England - possibly the first time in my life that England are a significantly stronger one day team than a test one. Well definitely the last 20 years at least - I suppose you have to acknowledge that the 1992 side was a top One Day Team but our Test Results were pretty mediocre around that time.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 17, 2018 15:07:47 GMT
Well - that shows what I know about legal processes and how they are interpreted. Stokes is now going to be available for England selection! That makes it all seem very bizarre - wasn't available while no charge was actually against him, but is available now one is. I suppose ECB were thinking of the potential reputational damage to cricket if the charge had been a much more serious one (speaking to people who know about this they think it's very unlikely Stoke will see jail time for this if convicted unless the judge decides he's sufficiently high profile to make an example of - but he did break a guy's eye socket which makes the defence pretty difficult) and the footage of this incident is out there and looks awful. I suppose they must have been getting legal advice on all of this and acting accordingly but it does seem bizarre. I assume that he will not play in the ODI's and will join up with the squad in New Zealand - maybe they'll throw him into the Melboure ODI's so 100k loaded up Aussies can now lay into him! Kind of a medieval style justice system.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 16:18:26 GMT
Well - that shows what I know about legal processes and how they are interpreted. Stokes is now going to be available for England selection! That makes it all seem very bizarre - wasn't available while no charge was actually against him, but is available now one is. I suppose ECB were thinking of the potential reputational damage to cricket if the charge had been a much more serious one (speaking to people who know about this they think it's very unlikely Stoke will see jail time for this if convicted unless the judge decides he's sufficiently high profile to make an example of - but he did break a guy's eye socket which makes the defence pretty difficult) and the footage of this incident is out there and looks awful. I suppose they must have been getting legal advice on all of this and acting accordingly but it does seem bizarre. I assume that he will not play in the ODI's and will join up with the squad in New Zealand - maybe they'll throw him into the Melboure ODI's so 100k loaded up Aussies can now lay into him! Kind of a medieval style justice system..... Not 100%sure if this is true or not but someone who saw the incident told the post that hales had started the ruckus and the man stokes hit ranot off after hitting hales then him and his mate came back with broken bottles in their hands that's when stokes became involved and hit one of the bottle wielders a few times Now if this is true I can't see how he has a case to answer and with the charge now downgraded to affray think the c.p.s.may be thinking along those lines
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 19, 2018 18:07:46 GMT
Yes, padstow I’d heard something similar. I heard that Stokes didn’t “start” the ruckus but intervened to “help” others who were getting beaten up. Either way perhaps he should have been tucked up in bed and not in a club!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 18:33:21 GMT
There's lots of different versions of the story circulating and I doubt even a court case will truly get to the bottom of what really happened.
The video footage alone is damning though. Self defense or heroic intervention maybe or maybe not, but he went too far.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 19, 2018 23:49:47 GMT
There's lots of different versions of the story circulating and I doubt even a court case will truly get to the bottom of what really happened. The video footage alone is damning though. Self defense or heroic intervention maybe or maybe not, but he went too far. Yes he did and whatever happens he will be punished. And I doubt even if it were to be accepted as “heroic intervention” it won’t matter because in the end he went too far.
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 20, 2018 10:23:52 GMT
I agree that simply being there in the first place was the major issue. I don't think there are many among us that could stand by and do nothing to intervene if we saw one of our friends being set upon by someone. Ben Stokes must be doing some pretty hard yards mentally right now though I would think. I feel pretty sorry for him to be honest although I see how others could view it very differently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 11:31:19 GMT
There's lots of different versions of the story circulating and I doubt even a court case will truly get to the bottom of what really happened. The video footage alone is damning though. Self defense or heroic intervention maybe or maybe not, but he went too far. So if someone came at you with a broken bottle you would just stand there?I don't think so.if it happened to me I would make sure that he didn't get a second chance to attack me with it. It's called self preservation. The 2 yobs who came with broken bottles knew what they were doing and should have expected a good hiding if the attack failed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 11:39:17 GMT
There's lots of different versions of the story circulating and I doubt even a court case will truly get to the bottom of what really happened. The video footage alone is damning though. Self defense or heroic intervention maybe or maybe not, but he went too far. So if someone came at you with a broken bottle you would just stand there?I don't think so.if it happened to me I would make sure that he didn't get a second chance to attack me with it. It's called self preservation. The 2 yobs who came with broken bottles knew what they were doing and should have expected a good hiding if the attack failed I'd run away.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 20, 2018 13:28:57 GMT
The other point (from a cricket, not a legal perspective) is that Stokes has previous. The ECB have warned him previously about putting himself in positions like this and for unacceptable aggressive behaviour. In fact it was common knowledge that they had to have a sit down with him 4/5 years ago and deliver some home truths that he was in danger of destroying his career with this. I believe he was also subject to an accusation of bullying and was unceremoniously sent home from a tour as a younger player (think it was an Under 19's) which resulted in him being briefly banned from representative selection. I've met several people who have worked with him in the game and say he has real anger management issues and tendencies towards threatening behaviour. The ECB are well aware of this which is why it took him a fairly long time to break through into the England side -so all of this confirms a lot of people's worst fears that this is someone who has a tendency to resort to physical violence as a first instinct and puts himself in those kind of situations in the first place. I don't have very much sympathy with him at all - he shouldn't have been there and he should have engaged his brain, he knows what is at stake. It's all very well saying 'he came at me with a bottle' but that situation doesn't come out of nowhere and there would have been chances to have removed yourself from the situation or have de-escalated it beforehand. Clearly there are mitigating circumstances or he would have been charged with a more serious offence but he's hardly an innocent party here. Coupled with his prior behaviour it is a concerning pattern frankly. This is definitely a last chance for him - he needs to sort it out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 19:05:49 GMT
So if someone came at you with a broken bottle you would just stand there?I don't think so.if it happened to me I would make sure that he didn't get a second chance to attack me with it. It's called self preservation. The 2 yobs who came with broken bottles knew what they were doing and should have expected a good hiding if the attack failed I'd run away. I was told you are too old and overweight to do much running but the person who toldoes me said he was your friend so who knows😀😁😂
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2018 19:24:47 GMT
I was told you are too old and overweight to do much running but the person who toldoes me said he was your friend so who knows😀😁😂
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 21, 2018 10:25:56 GMT
Well said irish. Spot on, irrespective of the perhaps mitigating circumstances.
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Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 27, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
8/5! Not seen a scoreline like that since I opened the batting for my house in 3rd year at school and got out for a diamond duck! Some recovery to get to almost 200.
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