harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,430
|
Post by harrybuckle on Oct 24, 2017 18:33:08 GMT
So finally former Tom Lockyer Under 18s team mate, goalkeeper Matt Macey starts this evening for Arsenal against Norwich City in the League Cup for his first team debut. I guess Rovers will get a welcome cash compensation from Arsenal to boost our spend on January signings.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 18:35:40 GMT
So finally former Tom Lockyer Under 18s team mate, goalkeeper Matt Macey starts this evening for Arsenal against Norwich City in the League Cup for his first team debut. I guess Rovers will get a welcome cash compensation from Arsenal to boost our spend on January signings. Was just writing the exact same thing Wonder if we get any money, and if we do will it go to the manager or will the owners swallow it up paying themselves interest on money they have loaned to their own company?
|
|
crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
|
Post by crater on Oct 25, 2017 7:48:33 GMT
And theres the difference...Locks has played 200+ first team games and Macey has played a handful (was on loan to Accrington) Games or cash?
|
|
|
Post by Dr John Dee on Oct 25, 2017 8:27:06 GMT
Well the FA and the PL appear to be of the opinion that sitting in some teams age related squad for 5 years and never playing any competitive games but having the best coaches and infrastructure is now no longer a Good Idea. The narrative is that these teams should be allowed to compete in the league as a B team. This all just seems like bullcrap to me.I don't know the numbers but it seems to me like more young British players get their heads turned by the wealth and lifestyle and end up pissing it away than they did before. A B team wouldn't fix that, more like make it worse.
|
|
|
Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 25, 2017 9:03:23 GMT
And theres the difference...Locks has played 200+ first team games and Macey has played a handful (was on loan to Accrington) Games or cash? I suspect the other difference is that Matt Macey has been paid a lot more than locks over that period. I also don't believe he would've got game time here if he had stayed, as a club we always look for a loan goalkeeper rather than trust our own youngsters. Don't doubt he has more first team appearances (and not many at that) than if he'd spent all that time here. No brainer for the lad when arsenal came calling
|
|
crater
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,444
|
Post by crater on Oct 25, 2017 9:26:02 GMT
And theres the difference...Locks has played 200+ first team games and Macey has played a handful (was on loan to Accrington) Games or cash? I suspect the other difference is that Matt Macey has been paid a lot more than locks over that period. I also don't believe he would've got game time here if he had stayed, as a club we always look for a loan goalkeeper rather than trust our own youngsters. Don't doubt he has more first team appearances (and not many at that) than if he'd spent all that time here. No brainer for the lad when arsenal came calling Without a doubt he would have been paid more...hence the comment games or cash. Don't footballers want to play football though? It's guesswork whether or not he'd have played first team football here but it would have been more likely for sure
|
|
|
Post by manchestergas on Oct 25, 2017 11:46:10 GMT
There is an argument a young goalkeeper is less likely to get first team football at a team like us than a young defender and definitely a young striker. Given the issues of goalies confidence, how they command an area and defence (which is based on maturity and personality) and possibly one mistake destroying a career I think it is maybe more attractive for a goalie to do what Macey has done than an outfield player. Also goalies tend to have longer careers. Spending a few years at Arsenal with no first team football is less of a 'waste' for a goalie than a defender or attacker.
Its not unusual for a very young striker to get first team football compared to a comparable goalie. You can just chuck a striker on and see how he does. Chuck a young goalie on (less substitute appearances) and he makes an complete howler and you can destroy him.
Would I have done what Macey has done, probably. If I had been Tom Lockyer with the same opportunity, I probably would have stayed at Rovers.
|
|
harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,430
|
Post by harrybuckle on Oct 25, 2017 12:12:52 GMT
I suspect Macey like most young Gunners are on something like £15-20k a week.
From London Evening Standard yesterday
Arsene Wenger has urged young goalkeeper Matt Macey to “grab that chance” ahead of a possible first-team debut against Norwich in tonight’s EFL Cup tie.
Macey has been a familiar presence on the Arsenal bench over recent years but has not made the step up to the starting XI since arriving from Bristol Rovers in 2013.
With David Ospina out until after the international break due to a groin problem and Emiliano Martinez on loan at Getafe that could change tonight if Wenger deems it unwise to risk an injury to Petr Cech in a match against Championship opposition.
|
|
dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
|
Post by dido on Oct 25, 2017 12:31:15 GMT
:
|
|
|
Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 25, 2017 12:34:24 GMT
I suspect the other difference is that Matt Macey has been paid a lot more than locks over that period. I also don't believe he would've got game time here if he had stayed, as a club we always look for a loan goalkeeper rather than trust our own youngsters. Don't doubt he has more first team appearances (and not many at that) than if he'd spent all that time here. No brainer for the lad when arsenal came calling Without a doubt he would have been paid more...hence the comment games or cash. Don't footballers want to play football though? It's guesswork whether or not he'd have played first team football here but it would have been more likely for sure The point is I don't believe the choice was cash or games, it was cash and games. Any evidence of young goalies coming through at Rovers and getting a run of games,? You'd have to go all the way back to Ryan Clarke for any that got any time, and I'm not sure he got much.
|
|
Gashead
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 260
|
Post by Gashead on Oct 25, 2017 13:01:52 GMT
Well the FA and the PL appear to be of the opinion that sitting in some teams age related squad for 5 years and never playing any competitive games but having the best coaches and infrastructure is now no longer a Good Idea. The narrative is that these teams should be allowed to compete in the league as a B team. This all just seems like bullcrap to me.I don't know the numbers but it seems to me like more young British players get their heads turned by the wealth and lifestyle and end up pissing it away than they did before. A B team wouldn't fix that, more like make it worse. Hardly the fault of the players. EPPP means its become very easy for top clubs to stockpile young players from the lower leagues at a low cost. No longer does a young player's ability determine their price, which is pretty backward for a league so obsessed by money. The B league idea is a method of furthering this stockpiling while rendering FL academies useless. If Chelsea/Arsenal/whoever can take a chance on 50 FL academy players, regardless of ability, for £2m under EPPP, its a risk worth taking for them. Not many players will turn down the chance of an Arsenal or a Chelsea if they love football, and I don't blame them regardless of motive. Yet look at where our talented England U20 side came from - Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Lewis Cook - all from FL clubs with games under their belts. These players won't excel at senior level unless given games. Truth is the PL bent the FL over a barrel when EPPP was introduced, big lesson for anyone who thinks the Checkatrade trophy is a fantastic idea. There is an argument a young goalkeeper is less likely to get first team football at a team like us than a young defender and definitely a young striker. Given the issues of goalies confidence, how they command an area and defence (which is based on maturity and personality) and possibly one mistake destroying a career I think it is maybe more attractive for a goalie to do what Macey has done than an outfield player. Is it? Look at how many games Jack Butland had played at Matt Macey's current age. Both talented keepers yet one stuck to the Football League and got experience, while one played u23 games and has 15 senior appearances to date. It relates to my point above, experience rather than age is what gets these players into a position where they're mature and confident on the pitch.
|
|
Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
|
Post by Peter Parker on Oct 25, 2017 13:06:50 GMT
Well the FA and the PL appear to be of the opinion that sitting in some teams age related squad for 5 years and never playing any competitive games but having the best coaches and infrastructure is now no longer a Good Idea. The narrative is that these teams should be allowed to compete in the league as a B team. This all just seems like bullcrap to me.I don't know the numbers but it seems to me like more young British players get their heads turned by the wealth and lifestyle and end up pissing it away than they did before. A B team wouldn't fix that, more like make it worse. Hardly the fault of the players. EPPP means its become very easy for top clubs to stockpile young players from the lower leagues at a low cost. No longer does a young player's ability determine their price, which is pretty backward for a league so obsessed by money. The B league idea is a method of furthering this stockpiling while rendering FL academies useless. If Chelsea/Arsenal/whoever can take a chance on 50 FL academy players, regardless of ability, for £2m under EPPP, its a risk worth taking for them. Not many players will turn down the chance of an Arsenal or a Chelsea if they love football, and I don't blame them regardless of motive. Yet look at where our talented England U20 side came from - Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Lewis Cook - all from FL clubs with games under their belts. These players won't excel at senior level unless given games. Truth is the PL bent the FL over a barrel when EPPP was introduced, big lesson for anyone who thinks the Checkatrade trophy is a fantastic idea. There is an argument a young goalkeeper is less likely to get first team football at a team like us than a young defender and definitely a young striker. Given the issues of goalies confidence, how they command an area and defence (which is based on maturity and personality) and possibly one mistake destroying a career I think it is maybe more attractive for a goalie to do what Macey has done than an outfield player. Is it? Look at how many games Jack Butland had played at Matt Macey's current age. Both talented keepers yet one stuck to the Football League and got experience, while one played u23 games and has 15 senior appearances to date. It relates to my point above, experience rather than age is what gets these players into a position where they're mature and confident on the pitch. if we are talking 'Keepers than the one big example is Joe Hart
|
|
|
Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 25, 2017 14:50:58 GMT
Well the FA and the PL appear to be of the opinion that sitting in some teams age related squad for 5 years and never playing any competitive games but having the best coaches and infrastructure is now no longer a Good Idea. The narrative is that these teams should be allowed to compete in the league as a B team. This all just seems like bullcrap to me.I don't know the numbers but it seems to me like more young British players get their heads turned by the wealth and lifestyle and end up pissing it away than they did before. A B team wouldn't fix that, more like make it worse. Hardly the fault of the players. EPPP means its become very easy for top clubs to stockpile young players from the lower leagues at a low cost. No longer does a young player's ability determine their price, which is pretty backward for a league so obsessed by money. The B league idea is a method of furthering this stockpiling while rendering FL academies useless. If Chelsea/Arsenal/whoever can take a chance on 50 FL academy players, regardless of ability, for £2m under EPPP, its a risk worth taking for them. Not many players will turn down the chance of an Arsenal or a Chelsea if they love football, and I don't blame them regardless of motive. Yet look at where our talented England U20 side came from - Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Lewis Cook - all from FL clubs with games under their belts. These players won't excel at senior level unless given games. Truth is the PL bent the FL over a barrel when EPPP was introduced, big lesson for anyone who thinks the Checkatrade trophy is a fantastic idea. There is an argument a young goalkeeper is less likely to get first team football at a team like us than a young defender and definitely a young striker. Given the issues of goalies confidence, how they command an area and defence (which is based on maturity and personality) and possibly one mistake destroying a career I think it is maybe more attractive for a goalie to do what Macey has done than an outfield player. Is it? Look at how many games Jack Butland had played at Matt Macey's current age. Both talented keepers yet one stuck to the Football League and got experience, while one played u23 games and has 15 senior appearances to date. It relates to my point above, experience rather than age is what gets these players into a position where they're mature and confident on the pitch. Then FL clubs need to show young players a route to the first team. Matt Macey would have seen, and could've asked around, and found out that young keepers at Rovers just get splinters sat on the bench and as soon as the experienced keeper isn't available an emergency keeper is signed often a young reserve keeper from a higher club. Best route for Matt Macey to play first team games for Rovers, sign for Arsenal
|
|
|
Post by laughinggas on Oct 25, 2017 16:26:02 GMT
Macey 23 Lumley 22
We were happy to play Lumley last season! How many young keepers have we had that we have not played and it's been a mistake? So how do some reach the statement oh Macey would not have played?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 16:59:47 GMT
Hardly the fault of the players. EPPP means its become very easy for top clubs to stockpile young players from the lower leagues at a low cost. No longer does a young player's ability determine their price, which is pretty backward for a league so obsessed by money. The B league idea is a method of furthering this stockpiling while rendering FL academies useless. If Chelsea/Arsenal/whoever can take a chance on 50 FL academy players, regardless of ability, for £2m under EPPP, its a risk worth taking for them. Not many players will turn down the chance of an Arsenal or a Chelsea if they love football, and I don't blame them regardless of motive. Yet look at where our talented England U20 side came from - Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Lewis Cook - all from FL clubs with games under their belts. These players won't excel at senior level unless given games. Truth is the PL bent the FL over a barrel when EPPP was introduced, big lesson for anyone who thinks the Checkatrade trophy is a fantastic idea. Is it? Look at how many games Jack Butland had played at Matt Macey's current age. Both talented keepers yet one stuck to the Football League and got experience, while one played u23 games and has 15 senior appearances to date. It relates to my point above, experience rather than age is what gets these players into a position where they're mature and confident on the pitch. Then FL clubs need to show young players a route to the first team. Matt Macey would have seen, and could've asked around, and found out that young keepers at Rovers just get splinters sat on the bench and as soon as the experienced keeper isn't available an emergency keeper is signed often a young reserve keeper from a higher club. Best route for Matt Macey to play first team games for Rovers, sign for Arsenal Add to that, whilst actually at top clubs these youngsters benefit from coaching that we just can't offer, in Matt's case, how can we compete with the experience of training with keepers like Ospina and Cech. Who was that young keeper we had a few years back, played cricket in the summer when he wasn't supposed to? Wasting his time here, exactly as you say, as soon as he was needed someone else was brought in over his head.
|
|
|
Post by CountyGroundHotel on Oct 25, 2017 17:05:07 GMT
Macey 23 Lumley 22 We were happy to play Lumley last season! How many young keepers have we had that we have not played and it's been a mistake? So how do some reach the statement oh Macey would not have played? Just proving my point Lumley a young reserve keeper from a Championship club.
|
|
|
Post by laughinggas on Oct 25, 2017 17:19:56 GMT
Macey 23 Lumley 22 We were happy to play Lumley last season! How many young keepers have we had that we have not played and it's been a mistake? So how do some reach the statement oh Macey would not have played? Just proving my point Lumley a young reserve keeper from a Championship club. How so? How old was Macey when he left,?
|
|