Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Aug 18, 2017 17:26:36 GMT
Staying at the Memorial Stadium is much better for the club than franchising at UWE, and the process will, I'm sure, be carefully planned out and carried out by Wael. He is a patient man and a highly intelligent businessman, when you have the finances and passion for football that he has it is simply a matter of time. I am disappointed so many Gas are being negative about the state of the club at this stage - have we forgotten the mire of Graydon days/Atkins days? The club is going onwards and upwards. Yes, it will be a slow and gradual process but Wael is working piece by piece behind the scenes and we should let him do just that. I can appreciate some of you are old and jaded enough to fear the march of time, but come on - our job is to focus on what happens on the pitch week by week and frankly that's a world of improvement on any side we've put out in the last 10 years. Put some faith in the squad and the board and who knows where the club will be in 10 years? It's Friday! Still playing at a s*** rugby ground not fit for purpose? How would the UWE be franchising? Bizarre. The fact is that we only have the AQ's word that the UWE wasn't the best deal for Rovers, rather than not the best deal for the AQ's - or that they were unwilling, or simply unable to raise the finance. A redeveloped Mem will probably cost more than the UWE and I don't think it will ever happen. I guess its finding the distinction between a good deal for the club and/or a better deal for the Al-Qadis If its a s**t deal it wont benefit anyone. It has to be a good deal for Rovers to benefit the Al-Qadis and we are back to sqaure one of not knowing what deal was on the table
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 18, 2017 19:06:04 GMT
Whether it truly is a bad deal for BRFC remains to be seen. We'll never know.
What's blatantly obvious is, its not a deal that suits the purpose of Dwayne Sports or AQ (like pessgas says).
I just hope this deal we've walked away from isn't motivated by pure greed and nothing else.
I've not a reason not to trust Wael, he's done brilliantly since his arrival. Without the facts, all I have is faith.
...and that's not for the first time!
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Aug 19, 2017 9:28:54 GMT
"I just hope this deal we've walked away from isn't motivated by pure greed and nothing else". For "pure greed" substitute the word "money". Either Dwayne Sports weren't going to make enough/any money out of it - or they couldn't fund the acquisition in the first place. What's best financially for Dwayne Sports is kind of what's best for Bristol Rovers, not vice versa.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 19, 2017 9:40:18 GMT
I'm sure Dwayne Sports would make money out the project. That much I'm sure of.
Just whether it would be enough (like you wrote), or whether the return in space of time didn't fit their projections, or other details weren't palatable doesn't mean BRFC wouldn't have thrived in the meantime.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 14:53:25 GMT
I do not think the Al-Qadi family got involved with BRFC as an expensive hobby for Wael, that is secondary. The primary reason was that the potential to build the UWE Stadium made good financial sense. Great location - M32, M4, Bristol Parkway. An affluent area (ie south Glouc.) that is expanding and attracting investment. Working as partners at the UWE would have offered plenty of synergies. On a decent sized plot there was the ability to make non match-day revenue from hotels / retail etc. Plus BRFC has a decent sized fan-base and there is an opportunity to expand it. The Al-Qadis looked at other Clubs (I can only remember Gillingham, there were others), but opted for us. Because that gave them the best shot of making money. On the positive side - they still have the fan base. Just the opportunity to expand it is limited if we stay where we are. I'm not actually that gutted. I like the Mem. But if people think the Al-Qadi family are going to plough £20mil+ (or whatever the number is) in re-developing the Mem with little to no chance of getting their money back... they're drinking way too much. I predict a very long period of silence as the 'top Stadium designers' address the options available. In the meantime some tangible work on the Training Ground might help quell the disquiet. Good points. I remember Rovers stalwarts Flook and Bradshaw, directors at the time bailing out back in the late seventies after a Hambrook deal bit the dust. We all remember the aftermath. End of 85/86 season they were going to walk and if g.d.hadn't taken it on who knows wHethersett we would have a club to worry about
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 21, 2017 13:19:30 GMT
Good points. I remember Rovers stalwarts Flook and Bradshaw, directors at the time bailing out back in the late seventies after a Hambrook deal bit the dust. We all remember the aftermath. End of 85/86 season they were going to walk and if g.d.hadn't taken it on who knows wHethersett we would have a club to worry about History suggests that we would have done - there is not a single historic club that has ceased to exist in its entirety. Sure, some have reformed etc - that's the nice thing about English football, no matter how dire the circumstances there's always a way back. Even Bradford Park Avenue still exists.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:21:40 GMT
End of 85/86 season they were going to walk and if g.d.hadn't taken it on who knows wHethersett we would have a club to worry about History suggests that we would have done - there is not a single historic club that has ceased to exist in its entirety. Sure, some have reformed etc - that's the nice thing about English football, no matter how dire the circumstances there's always a way back. Even Bradford Park Avenue still exists. I agree,and for true fans of clubs that do get back into the league it must be very satisfying to stay loyal and keep going through the 'bad' days.
I wonder what would happen if Rovers went bust and dropped out of the league ? some fans would go and watch other teams no doubt,some would go to watch city, some would drop out of going to football altogether and watch TV matches,and some would remain nominally Rovers 'supporters' but not go to games, hopefully a large percentage would continue following Rovers no matter what, I suppose 'how low would you go ?' is up to the individual.
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faggotygas
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Post by faggotygas on Aug 21, 2017 14:25:50 GMT
History suggests that we would have done - there is not a single historic club that has ceased to exist in its entirety. Sure, some have reformed etc - that's the nice thing about English football, no matter how dire the circumstances there's always a way back. Even Bradford Park Avenue still exists. I agree,and for true fans of clubs that do get back into the league it must be very satisfying to stay loyal and keep going through the 'bad' days.
I wonder what would happen if Rovers went bust and dropped out of the league ? some fans would go and watch other teams no doubt,some would go to watch city, some would drop out of going to football altogether and watch TV matches,and some would remain nominally Rovers 'supporters' but not go to games, hopefully a large percentage would continue following Rovers no matter what, I suppose 'how low would you go ?' is up to the individual.
Um, we did drop out of the league, quite recently...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:31:09 GMT
I agree,and for true fans of clubs that do get back into the league it must be very satisfying to stay loyal and keep going through the 'bad' days.
I wonder what would happen if Rovers went bust and dropped out of the league ? some fans would go and watch other teams no doubt,some would go to watch city, some would drop out of going to football altogether and watch TV matches,and some would remain nominally Rovers 'supporters' but not go to games, hopefully a large percentage would continue following Rovers no matter what, I suppose 'how low would you go ?' is up to the individual.
Um, we did drop out of the league, quite recently... I hadn't forgotten. I meant that if Rovers went bust like Accrington for instance then there would be more than one season out of the league and a lot more divisions to climb out of.
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Post by badbloodash on Aug 21, 2017 14:39:49 GMT
Um, we did drop out of the league, quite recently... I hadn't forgotten. I meant that if Rovers went bust like Accrington for instance then there would be more than one season out of the league and a lot more divisions to climb out of.
If what people are saying Dwayne are charging us 6% per month it won't be long before we are bust 72% per annum on 10 million is 3 times what the club generates per season anyone know where I can get 6% per month
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 14:52:24 GMT
I hadn't forgotten. I meant that if Rovers went bust like Accrington for instance then there would be more than one season out of the league and a lot more divisions to climb out of.
If what people are saying Dwayne are charging us 6% per month it won't be long before we are bust 72% per annum on 10 million is 3 times what the club generates per season anyone know where I can get 6% per month I always think 'hope for the best but prepare for the worst' so lets hope that the crippling interest isn't true, but get the map out for trips to Frome and Wells....mind you Manor Farm would be walking distance for me....always look on the bright side of life.
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strung out
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Post by strung out on Aug 21, 2017 14:59:57 GMT
I hadn't forgotten. I meant that if Rovers went bust like Accrington for instance then there would be more than one season out of the league and a lot more divisions to climb out of.
If what people are saying Dwayne are charging us 6% per month it won't be long before we are bust 72% per annum on 10 million is 3 times what the club generates per season anyone know where I can get 6% per month Your maths is out.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 21, 2017 15:38:03 GMT
I hadn't forgotten.£ I meant that if Rovers went bust like Accrington for instance then there would be more than one season out of the league and a lot more divisions to climb out of.
If what people are saying Dwayne are charging us 6% per month it won't be long before we are bust 72% per annum on 10 million is 3 times what the club generates per season anyone know where I can get 6% per month Based on the 2016 accounts my estimate is that Dwane Sports are charging Rovers about 6% pa on the £10 million loan which means we are paying about £600 000 per year or about £12 000 per week in interest. I should love them to refute this and say they are not actually transferring the interest payments to Dwane Sport's bank account and/or the loan is going to be converted into shares. In 2016 the Forest Green Rovers owner put £5 million into his club as equity. The Brighton Chairman has supplied his club with £170 million in unsecured interest free loans and subscribed for at least £18 million in equity. The Huddersfield Town Chairman has made loans of £41 million to his club interest free. Charging your own loss making football club interest on loans is, IMO, not in the best interests of that football club.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Aug 21, 2017 15:42:12 GMT
If what people are saying Dwayne are charging us 6% per month it won't be long before we are bust 72% per annum on 10 million is 3 times what the club generates per season anyone know where I can get 6% per month Based on the 2016 accounts my estimate is that Dwane Sports are charging Rovers about 6% pa on the £10 million loan which means we are paying about £600 000 per year or about £12 000 per week in interest. I should love them to refute this and say they are not actually transferring the interest payments to Dwane Sport's bank account and/or the loan is going to be converted into shares. In 2016 the Forest Green Rovers owner put £5 million into his club as equity. The Brighton Chairman has supplied his club with £170 million in unsecured interest free loans and subscribed for at least £18 million in equity. The Huddersfield Town Chairman has made loans of £41 million to his club interest free. Charging your own loss making football club interest on loans is, IMO, not in the best interests of that football club. It's not really in their interest either is it. If they wanted to invest money (such is their business) they could have picked literally anything else other than a football club to make money out of
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Post by PessimistGas on Aug 21, 2017 15:55:48 GMT
Based on the 2016 accounts my estimate is that Dwane Sports are charging Rovers about 6% pa on the £10 million loan which means we are paying about £600 000 per year or about £12 000 per week in interest. I should love them to refute this and say they are not actually transferring the interest payments to Dwane Sport's bank account and/or the loan is going to be converted into shares. In 2016 the Forest Green Rovers owner put £5 million into his club as equity. The Brighton Chairman has supplied his club with £170 million in unsecured interest free loans and subscribed for at least £18 million in equity. The Huddersfield Town Chairman has made loans of £41 million to his club interest free. Charging your own loss making football club interest on loans is, IMO, not in the best interests of that football club. It's not really in their interest either is it. If they wanted to invest money (such is their business) they could have picked literally anything else other than a football club to make money out of I think Wael is a football man who is in this for right reasons (unless he is the world's greatest liar). I am am unsure of the family's motives or what exactly they are hoping to get out of it, but Swiss has summed up my concerns perfectly. Wael has stated the loan isn't a loan but an investment, in which case why not put the money in as equity? It doesn't add up.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Aug 21, 2017 16:20:31 GMT
It's not really in their interest either is it. If they wanted to invest money (such is their business) they could have picked literally anything else other than a football club to make money out of I think Wael is a football man who is in this for right reasons (unless he is the world's greatest liar). I am am unsure of the family's motives or what exactly they are hoping to get out of it, but Swiss has summed up my concerns perfectly. Wael has stated the loan isn't a loan but an investment, in which case why not put the money in as equity? It doesn't add up. Thing is everything we ‘know’ can be cut so many different ways. Wael might be into football, but ultimately the family own the club and I can only guess given the nature of their business they aren’t into vanity projects. They aren’t in the same league of Steve Lansdown who can sink a small fortune into a football club because he wants to.
To rip up UWE and go back to square one must be costing Dwane /The Al-Qadi’s in it’s self, because what are they gaining. UWE must have been one s**t deal when you look at it like that, because on the face of it, it should generate more revenue. If these apparent consortiums lurking in the background are there, when were/are they known to the Al-Qadi’s? If they were known of (and the Al-Qadi’s wanted to sell) surely there was an argument for Dwane Sports to proceed with the UWE and ‘increase’ the value of BRFC, knowing they could sell up at a good price
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 17:54:36 GMT
It's not really in their interest either is it. If they wanted to invest money (such is their business) they could have picked literally anything else other than a football club to make money out of I think Wael is a football man who is in this for right reasons (unless he is the world's greatest liar). I am am unsure of the family's motives or what exactly they are hoping to get out of it, but Swiss has summed up my concerns perfectly. Wael has stated the loan isn't a loan but an investment, in which case why not put the money in as equity? It doesn't add up. Oh it does add up but I don't think he expects people to ask questions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 17:55:22 GMT
Based on the 2016 accounts my estimate is that Dwane Sports are charging Rovers about 6% pa on the £10 million loan which means we are paying about £600 000 per year or about £12 000 per week in interest. I should love them to refute this and say they are not actually transferring the interest payments to Dwane Sport's bank account and/or the loan is going to be converted into shares. In 2016 the Forest Green Rovers owner put £5 million into his club as equity. The Brighton Chairman has supplied his club with £170 million in unsecured interest free loans and subscribed for at least £18 million in equity. The Huddersfield Town Chairman has made loans of £41 million to his club interest free. Charging your own loss making football club interest on loans is, IMO, not in the best interests of that football club. It's not really in their interest either is it. If they wanted to invest money (such is their business) they could have picked literally anything else other than a football club to make money out of Exactly. 6% pa isn't all that. They've got interests in a lot of things, most of which probably return a lot more than 6% for considerably less fuss and hassle, and not rooted in an inherently loss making business in a suburb of a city not hugely accessible from Amman. Whatever their motivation, and reasoning for the financial arrangement, it won't be making a quick buck or asset stripping. If folk are disgruntled because they aren't pouring in unlimited funds on whatever terms on whatever project, or as much as some other clubs' sugar daddies are, I think that's unreasonable (to put it gently). Given everything that went before, I'm still struggling to feel had done by or short changed (but maybe that's just not my default state of mind).
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Post by PessimistGas on Aug 21, 2017 18:38:54 GMT
It's not really in their interest either is it. If they wanted to invest money (such is their business) they could have picked literally anything else other than a football club to make money out of Exactly. 6% pa isn't all that. They've got interests in a lot of things, most of which probably return a lot more than 6% for considerably less fuss and hassle, and not rooted in an inherently loss making business in a suburb of a city not hugely accessible from Amman. Whatever their motivation, and reasoning for the financial arrangement, it won't be making a quick buck or asset stripping. If folk are disgruntled because they aren't pouring in unlimited funds on whatever terms on whatever project, or as much as some other clubs' sugar daddies are, I think that's unreasonable (to put it gently). Given everything that went before, I'm still struggling to feel had done by or short changed (but maybe that's just not my default state of mind). Not sure about unlimited funds, they aren't pouring in any funds. Asset stripping/making a quick buck etc. is rather extreme, I certainly wouldn't go that far, my main concern would be what happens when the £10m runs out, or if the family decide they've had enough? Higgs, Dunford etc may have been incompetent but I don't think it is it question that they are both fans who love the club. What do you actually know about the family to justify such blind faith? Wael is clearly emotionally invested, I doubt the same can be said for people who actually call the shots.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Aug 21, 2017 18:49:53 GMT
Exactly. 6% pa isn't all that. They've got interests in a lot of things, most of which probably return a lot more than 6% for considerably less fuss and hassle, and not rooted in an inherently loss making business in a suburb of a city not hugely accessible from Amman. Whatever their motivation, and reasoning for the financial arrangement, it won't be making a quick buck or asset stripping. If folk are disgruntled because they aren't pouring in unlimited funds on whatever terms on whatever project, or as much as some other clubs' sugar daddies are, I think that's unreasonable (to put it gently). Given everything that went before, I'm still struggling to feel had done by or short changed (but maybe that's just not my default state of mind). Not sure about unlimited funds, they aren't pouring in any funds. Asset stripping/making a quick buck etc. is rather extreme, I certainly wouldn't go that far, my main concern would be what happens when the £10m runs out, or if the family decide they've had enough? Higgs, Dunford etc may have been incompetent but I don't think it is it question that they are both fans who love the club. What do you actually know about the family to justify such blind faith? Wael is clearly emotionally invested, I doubt the same can be said for people who actually call the shots. But thats the question. I doubt the family would have given Wael such a toy to play with as it were without knowing it would cost them a few quid, unless they grossly underestimated the riches of a 4th division football club. Some sums must have been done with the UWE project over the 18 months, so what about it, makes it so unviable to them, that staying at a run down Mem (which we all doubt will get redevloped) is a better option. At best, they will sell up for nothing and expect their loan/investment/interest paid back over a period of time.
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