Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 14:30:53 GMT
Can i be a sad person a say i think we have the UWE over a barrel and trying to screw them for every penny ?? The UWE have committed to spend some serious wonga on expansion of facilities Since that commitment the NHS have shafted the UWE by stopping some of the funding they get every year for training up new nurses ( NHS used to pay upfront for this training, now the students have to do this ) The UWE are desperate for this to go through to find that shortfall to fulfill that commitment Wael being a very good business person knows this My only source on this is somebody i know who works in admissions dept at the UWE and she said they a worried about budgets next year and she fears for her Job Just a thought, nothing concrete This takes us way off in the land of speculation, hypotheticals, and game-theory. If UWE's financial model has changed, firstly I doubt if they have a cash flow problem urgent enough for a fire sale; secondly, they'd want to make longer term adjustments which would mean getting the best price for (or income from) any land interests they're selling. Didn't they originally have planning permission for offices on that site? We're not their only option. 'Innovative' and sub-max-value use of the land would be out. I never did understand why they'd want (or indulge in) a football stadium there. So I don't think we'd have them over a barrell. As it is, I don't think they're in strategic rethink territory, and - sorry to be harsh - but that wouldn't be triggered to avoid job cuts in the admissions department. I think that negotiation grind on shows that the principle holds, and the delay (whatever it is) is detail level stuff.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Jan 23, 2017 14:37:24 GMT
First time I've heard FFP mentioned since John Ward used to talk about it. Perhaps because it didn't apply in the Conference?
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 23, 2017 14:45:10 GMT
Can i be a sad person a say i think we have the UWE over a barrel and trying to screw them for every penny ?? The UWE have committed to spend some serious wonga on expansion of facilities Since that commitment the NHS have shafted the UWE by stopping some of the funding they get every year for training up new nurses ( NHS used to pay upfront for this training, now the students have to do this ) The UWE are desperate for this to go through to find that shortfall to fulfill that commitment Wael being a very good business person knows this My only source on this is somebody i know who works in admissions dept at the UWE and she said they a worried about budgets next year and she fears for her Job Just a thought, nothing concrete This takes us way off in the land of speculation, hypotheticals, and game-theory. If UWE's financial model has changed, firstly I doubt if they have a cash flow problem urgent enough for a fire sale; secondly, they'd want to make longer term adjustments which would mean getting the best price for (or income from) any land interests they're selling. Didn't they originally have planning permission for offices on that site? We're not their only option. 'Innovative' and sub-max-value use of the land would be out. I never did understand why they'd want (or indulge in) a football stadium there. So I don't think we'd have them over a barrell. As it is, I don't think they're in strategic rethink territory, and - sorry to be harsh - but that wouldn't be triggered to avoid job cuts in the admissions department. I think that negotiation grind on shows that the principle holds, and the delay (whatever it is) is detail level stuff. I'm Glad you know what your talking about ! Having done some digging with my planning buddy @ Kingswood, the 2 or 3 plots of extra land Rovers want at the moment Have no "change of Use" application or orders on them and are still classed as development land. No Planning applications have be applied. It was noted that the UWE want to use this land for residential/student commendation, but no applications have been recieved The shortfall in budgets from NHS is approx 100 students @ £9000 each, Money they have to get from the student now. They will have to be pro active in this area because Cardiff is classed as a far better placement for student Nurse training
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 15:37:12 GMT
There are 28,679 students at UWE, the demand for higher education has not collapsed, and UWE is not on the brink of financial disaster.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 23, 2017 16:04:37 GMT
There are 28,679 students at UWE, the demand for higher education has not collapsed, and UWE is not on the brink of financial disaster. So in your considered opinion do you think UWE Stadium Complex will be built in the next 5 years ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 16:16:06 GMT
Can i be a sad person a say i think we have the UWE over a barrel and trying to screw them for every penny ?? The UWE have committed to spend some serious wonga on expansion of facilities Since that commitment the NHS have shafted the UWE by stopping some of the funding they get every year for training up new nurses ( NHS used to pay upfront for this training, now the students have to do this ) The UWE are desperate for this to go through to find that shortfall to fulfill that commitment Wael being a very good business person knows this My only source on this is somebody i know who works in admissions dept at the UWE and she said they a worried about budgets next year and she fears for her Job Just a thought, nothing concrete This takes us way off in the land of speculation, hypotheticals, and game-theory. If UWE's financial model has changed, firstly I doubt if they have a cash flow problem urgent enough for a fire sale; secondly, they'd want to make longer term adjustments which would mean getting the best price for (or income from) any land interests they're selling. Didn't they originally have planning permission for offices on that site? We're not their only option. 'Innovative' and sub-max-value use of the land would be out. I never did understand why they'd want (or indulge in) a football stadium there. So I don't think we'd have them over a barrell. As it is, I don't think they're in strategic rethink territory, and - sorry to be harsh - but that wouldn't be triggered to avoid job cuts in the admissions department. I think that negotiation grind on shows that the principle holds, and the delay (whatever it is) is detail level stuff. Don't think it was so much about the football, more about the prestige and the additional sporting facilities. Maybe the clue is in the name, which didn't seem to ever be up for tender?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 16:18:36 GMT
There are 28,679 students at UWE, the demand for higher education has not collapsed, and UWE is not on the brink of financial disaster. So in your considered opinion do you think UWE Stadium Complex will be built in the next 5 years ? Genuinely no idea. I don't know what the hold-up is - that's the point. Based on a feeling in the bones, if I had to plump, no - but I don't know what the back-story will be. However, I'm confident it will have nothing to do with 100 student nurses, or what you say she said they speculated about in the UWE admissions department.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 19:04:36 GMT
...speculation, hypotheticals, and game-theory... sounds like everything I'd love.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 23, 2017 21:05:57 GMT
FFP means there's a wage cap based on revenue, it's not self-inflicted by Hamer and Wael. DC's claims probably hold some validity because for some clubs their 'revenue' does not equate to their crowds. I'm thinking Fleetwood, and teams like Oxford or Peterborough who tend to get a bit from transfers which probably overrides any crowd differences between us and them. 'Bottom 8' probably a bit of an exaggeration though. I was under the impression that FFP is not used for clubs promoted from non league, for 2 seasons ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 21:19:55 GMT
FFP means there's a wage cap based on revenue, it's not self-inflicted by Hamer and Wael. DC's claims probably hold some validity because for some clubs their 'revenue' does not equate to their crowds. I'm thinking Fleetwood, and teams like Oxford or Peterborough who tend to get a bit from transfers which probably overrides any crowd differences between us and them. 'Bottom 8' probably a bit of an exaggeration though. I was under the impression that FFP is not used for clubs promoted from non league, for 2 seasons ? I thought that too, but on reflection even if it is correct, it wouldn't be prudent to overspend in season two only to have to slash costs in season 3. Plus, its a convenient excuse to avoid spending.
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Post by droitwichgas on Jan 23, 2017 21:24:54 GMT
FFP means there's a wage cap based on revenue, it's not self-inflicted by Hamer and Wael. DC's claims probably hold some validity because for some clubs their 'revenue' does not equate to their crowds. I'm thinking Fleetwood, and teams like Oxford or Peterborough who tend to get a bit from transfers which probably overrides any crowd differences between us and them. 'Bottom 8' probably a bit of an exaggeration though. I was under the impression that FFP is not used for clubs promoted from non league, for 2 seasons ? That was the rumour when Fleetwood seemed to be spending beyond their means but I've no idea where you check that's the case, although wouldn't it be odd to allow a promoted team to spend more than an established Div 1 team. Although DC is talking no sense as how can we have a bottom 8 budget but hitting the FFP limits when attendances are top 8, a month or so ago DC was praising Wael for always backing him. As far as Wael either he's playing clever and pretending we're skint to get the UWE to sell us the land at a knock down price or we simply can't afford the land, but if we can't then why spend £1m+ at Almondsbury as wouldn't that money be better spent on the UWE land, or even at the Mem if the UWE deal collapses? Perhaps HG's one step behind Wael and he's already realised the UWE are desperate to sell the land? DC's even joined in by suggesting he has no money to spend.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,067
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Post by Angas on Jan 23, 2017 21:51:44 GMT
The only reference I've been able to find for clubs promoted from non league is this:-
While a Premier League club demoted to the Championship, or a team from the Blue Square Premier promoted to League Two could argue that they were not signatories to the original agreement and therefore should not be subject to the effects of the Football League FFP Rules, Rule 3.1 of the Football League Rules states that to be a member of the Football League, each club must agree to “be bound and comply with… [the Football League Regulations] [and] the terms of any agreement entered into by the [Football League]”. Any argument is therefore likely to fall on deaf ears.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 24, 2017 6:51:52 GMT
So in your considered opinion do you think UWE Stadium Complex will be built in the next 5 years ? Genuinely no idea. I don't know what the hold-up is - that's the point. Based on a feeling in the bones, if I had to plump, no - but I don't know what the back-story will be. However, I'm confident it will have nothing to do with 100 student nurses, or what you say she said they speculated about in the UWE admissions department. So if the UWE have 30,000 students each paying upwards of £9000 each do the UWE need the extra £1m for the land ?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 10:08:19 GMT
Genuinely no idea. I don't know what the hold-up is - that's the point. Based on a feeling in the bones, if I had to plump, no - but I don't know what the back-story will be. However, I'm confident it will have nothing to do with 100 student nurses, or what you say she said they speculated about in the UWE admissions department. So if the UWE have 30,000 students each paying upwards of £9000 each do the UWE need the extra £1m for the land ? What extra £1m? Haven't we established we don't know what the sticking point/s is/are? The making up of stuff and presenting it as fact makes me twitch. I'd assume they'd want what's the optimum deal for them. How does your riddle relate to your original line that 'we have the UWE over a barrel'?
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Post by daniel300380 on Jan 24, 2017 11:12:29 GMT
So if the UWE have 30,000 students each paying upwards of £9000 each do the UWE need the extra £1m for the land ? What extra £1m? Haven't we established we don't know what the sticking point/s is/are? The making up of stuff and presenting it as fact makes me twitch. I'd assume they'd want what's the optimum deal for them. How does your riddle relate to your original line that 'we have the UWE over a barrel'? The rumours are that it's to do with how much the land is worth, but no one knows if that's true. It could be to do with anything. The original plans had lecture halls for Uwe, a running track that the students could use and they were allowed to play there varsity matches on the pitch etc. Maybe Wael does not want all of that stuff, or if he does, Uwe don't want to pay too much to use the facilities. They were going to use the parking spaces on non match days etc. It's not as simple as agreeing a price for the land, I expect they have to agree on a lot of other stuff. The club will want what is best for us and what will bring in the most revenue term. Uwe will want as much as they can get, so it looks good when trying to attract new students and they will want the extra facilities if they can get them. The hold up could be on some of the smaller details now.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 24, 2017 11:26:43 GMT
There are 28,679 students at UWE, the demand for higher education has not collapsed, and UWE is not on the brink of financial disaster. This is true but there is going to be a drop off in the domestic student market in the next few years as there are simply fewer 18 year olds in the next range of cohorts. This is something University's are concerned about. I went to a meeting of Russell Group University's the other day that was about exactly this - so I imagine it would be at least as big an issue for UWE. It's not so much the immediate impact on the balance sheet that's the issue as the excuse it gives government to reduce funding levels and the perception it gives to investors.
My feeling is that the UWE stadium is probably a better deal for the University now than it may have been when it was signed but I guess it depends how much we are moving the goalposts by. The truth is we don't really know much about either side's ultimate commitment. With Higgs we knew that UWE were basically happy with the deal and Rovers were going to try and build it at all costs. Now, I don't think we can be sure of either of those things - clearly a massive game of bluff is going on.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 24, 2017 12:27:00 GMT
So if the UWE have 30,000 students each paying upwards of £9000 each do the UWE need the extra £1m for the land ? What extra £1m? Haven't we established we don't know what the sticking point/s is/are? The making up of stuff and presenting it as fact makes me twitch. I'd assume they'd want what's the optimum deal for them. How does your riddle relate to your original line that 'we have the UWE over a barrel'? Thats the difference in cost between development and Residential Lane for the site
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Jan 24, 2017 12:58:49 GMT
What extra £1m? Haven't we established we don't know what the sticking point/s is/are? The making up of stuff and presenting it as fact makes me twitch. I'd assume they'd want what's the optimum deal for them. How does your riddle relate to your original line that 'we have the UWE over a barrel'? Thats the difference in cost between development and Residential Lane for the site Really with good residential land going at £1m an acre?
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Post by Henbury Gas on Jan 24, 2017 13:07:28 GMT
Thats the difference in cost between development and Residential Lane for the site Really with good residential land going at £1m an acre? That would be with Planning permission, the UWE land will have to be reclassified and planning permission gained
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trymer
Joined: November 2018
Posts: 1,453
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Post by trymer on Dec 26, 2018 11:33:19 GMT
Walsall away January 2017 and Hamer is interviewed in the car park by Radio Bristol. Very nearly two years on and Walsall away again,I found it interesting to read the thread again. Some people were dubious about what was happening,some people were sure that all was positive,I am sure that some people will read their own comments and wince.
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