Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 5, 2014 12:47:19 GMT
totend reporting this on the unofficialbrfc site:- Apparently NH has written to the Presidents Club saying they will have to defer the dividend due on their preference shares. Can anyone explain what this means? Do the board owe the PC money? Its todowith those that stumped up dosh tobuy The Mem
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Post by warwickgas on Jul 5, 2014 12:47:30 GMT
Before the Sharesave scheme was introduced the club asked individuals to consider buying preference shares as a means of raiising money. I bought 2,000 shares at £1 each.these shares do not carry voting rights which might explain why I have never been invited to the AGM! Tthen again, I've never been sent a set of audited accounts ! The shares paid a dividend calculated at 3% above bank base rate. About two years ago I received a letter from NH saying they were suspending the dividend until further notice so this is not something onlyrecently introduced. I did ring the club a few years agoand asked if they could send me a set of accounts. The woman I spoke to was a bit brusque as though I had no business asking. She concluded by saying if I had any concerns they would buy my shares back! Tempted to ask them now if the offer is still there.
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Post by manchestergas on Jul 5, 2014 12:53:18 GMT
Before the Sharesave scheme was introduced the club asked individuals to consider buying preference shares as a means of raiising money. I bought 2,000 shares at £1 each.these shares do not carry voting rights which might explain why I have never been invited to the AGM! Tthen again, I've never been sent a set of audited accounts ! The shares paid a dividend calculated at 3% above bank base rate. About two years ago I received a letter from NH saying they were suspending the dividend until further notice so this is not something onlyrecently introduced. I did ring the club a few years agoand asked if they could send me a set of accounts. The woman I spoke to was a bit brusque as though I had no business asking. She concluded by saying if I had any concerns they would buy my shares back! Tempted to ask them now if the offer is still there. Beggars belief. Oh and GoDs little mysterious postings on Twitter. Those postings may have nothing to do with the club, but he is intelligent enough to understand the potential they could be interpreted in such a way by fans. The club is an absolute shambles.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 12:59:13 GMT
When a gambler loses he has to face the decision to walk away or bet more in the hope of recovery. This is often delusional. However, as dunford and bandits can keep betting with recoverable credit it's a gamblers paradise. They're like the coked up casino owner gambling at their own roulette wheel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk A little respect please, it's Mr Dunford and even if you dont repect the man then at least respect the fact that his family kept the club in business for many years. by afloat do you mean millions in debt and tumbling out the football league ? weve gone to rats**t since denis relinquished control
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Jul 5, 2014 13:05:54 GMT
With all due respect to you lavalamp, how do you know that there were '' quite abrupt exchanges in the boardroom the other day?'' And if you do know for certain that there were, would you care to elaborate if it's at all possible for you to do so? I'm posting this as a serious question, and not a wind-up. He's quoting Toteend.
Silly me then, eh? I'll try again . . . . . . and thanks for the correction by the way.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 13:08:02 GMT
Taking a positive (ish) view. He could have been talking about Charlotte Leslie/David Cameron. Or (more positively) Sainsbury's. Can't help but read it negatively though. (Agree with the request above re the return of the sinking ship smiley. In fact I'd swap all the ones on this forum for all the ones on the old forum. I really struggle with the new tiny images and working out what they mean. Any chance of going back to what we know and love?) Edit: Clearly I was on the right track with my opening line. Just read the following re-tweet on GD's twitter page THINK POSITIVE all day today & see how much better you feel tonight. Drive out negative thoughts as they appear. THINK POSITIVE all day.
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Post by swissgas on Jul 5, 2014 13:12:15 GMT
Before the Sharesave scheme was introduced the club asked individuals to consider buying preference shares as a means of raiising money. I bought 2,000 shares at £1 each.these shares do not carry voting rights which might explain why I have never been invited to the AGM! Tthen again, I've never been sent a set of audited accounts ! The shares paid a dividend calculated at 3% above bank base rate. About two years ago I received a letter from NH saying they were suspending the dividend until further notice so this is not something onlyrecently introduced. I did ring the club a few years agoand asked if they could send me a set of accounts. The woman I spoke to was a bit brusque as though I had no business asking. She concluded by saying if I had any concerns they would buy my shares back! Tempted to ask them now if the offer is still there. I suspect something like this will be tried again soon. Also the scenario Northville presents of the club being sold and the stadium being retained by the current owners of 1883 Ltd is quite plausible. I posted about "the trap" a few weeks ago and that could equally apply to the Mem as it did the UWE Stadium. New owners of the football club would have to invest heavily in a better structure (players and management) and gamble on getting quick success and riding the wave with 7000+ crowds providing the cash flow. But if it didn't work then who, except for the landlords, would be ready to step in when the money ran out. A bit galling to see the owners of 1883 Ltd in an almost no lose situation but that completely depends on someone being willing to take on the football club and lease the stadium. And in support of "That's Life" regarding Geoff Dunford. I know a lot of people hate Geoff and perhaps have good cause to but I would caution against being taken in by a message which says "get rid of Geoff and we'll be all right". That is exactly the message Nick Higgs has been putting out for the last six years. If it wasn't for a,b,c,d.e..... (the list is very long) we'd be all right. And every time that we got rid of the things Nick said were the problem, starting with players from the Trollope era and ending with the bloke from English Heritage, it wasn't all right.
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Post by chelt_gas on Jul 5, 2014 13:35:22 GMT
When a gambler loses he has to face the decision to walk away or bet more in the hope of recovery. This is often delusional. However, as dunford and bandits can keep betting with recoverable credit it's a gamblers paradise. They're like the coked up casino owner gambling at their own roulette wheel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk A little respect please, it's Mr Dunford and even if you dont repect the man then at least respect the fact that his family kept the club in business for many years. Dunford lost any respect quite some time ago when he failed to apply moral ethics to those fans who invested in the share scheme, when he sold the fans the Cheltenham move and when he took individual hostilities against certain people. Even Blair lost the right to being addressed mr, the similarities of those two eh? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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LJG
Peter Beadle
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 969
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Post by LJG on Jul 5, 2014 13:41:14 GMT
Before the Sharesave scheme was introduced the club asked individuals to consider buying preference shares as a means of raiising money. I bought 2,000 shares at £1 each.these shares do not carry voting rights which might explain why I have never been invited to the AGM! Tthen again, I've never been sent a set of audited accounts ! The shares paid a dividend calculated at 3% above bank base rate. About two years ago I received a letter from NH saying they were suspending the dividend until further notice so this is not something onlyrecently introduced. I did ring the club a few years agoand asked if they could send me a set of accounts. The woman I spoke to was a bit brusque as though I had no business asking. She concluded by saying if I had any concerns they would buy my shares back! Tempted to ask them now if the offer is still there. Hang on a second I thought you were Matt Harrold AND a director at JCB? Blimey you get about a bit don't you, Matt? Directorship at a multi-national company and a prefs shareholder at Rovers. Was that while you were still at Brentford?
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jul 5, 2014 14:14:31 GMT
A little respect please, it's Mr Dunford and even if you dont repect the man then at least respect the fact that his family kept the club in business for many years. Dunford lost any respect quite some time ago when he failed to apply moral ethics to those fans who invested in the share scheme, when he sold the fans the Cheltenham move and when he took individual hostilities against certain people. Even Blair lost the right to being addressed mr, the similarities of those two eh? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So you have no respect for the historical achievements of the past decades of financial support the Dunford family have given the club. The people who invested in the share scheme did so of their own accord, no one made them. As for "individual hostilities" how do you KNOW they weren't justified? Have'nt you ever been hostile to someone who has upset you or are you Mother Teresa in disguise?
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Post by chelt_gas on Jul 5, 2014 14:30:12 GMT
Dunford lost any respect quite some time ago when he failed to apply moral ethics to those fans who invested in the share scheme, when he sold the fans the Cheltenham move and when he took individual hostilities against certain people. Even Blair lost the right to being addressed mr, the similarities of those two eh? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So you have no respect for the historical achievements of the past decades of financial support the Dunford family have given the club. The people who invested in the share scheme did so of their own accord, no one made them. As for "individual hostilities" how do you KNOW they weren't justified? Have'nt you ever been hostile to someone who has upset you or are you Mother Teresa in disguise? How do supporters know that what money any director puts in isn't going to be taken out, at credit, on the future? Is it 'generous' lending money that's secured against an asset? Perhaps I'm not thankful enough to Barclays for my mortgage? The share scheme comment is almost troll like but our opinions would fall on either side of that one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by warwickgas on Jul 5, 2014 14:46:36 GMT
No, I'm not MH, I was trying to put myself in his shoes and anticipate his response had he seen the criticism. However, I am a retired director fron JCB. Cheshire Gas knows me- we worked together years ago !
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,178
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 5, 2014 15:57:15 GMT
Dunford lost any respect quite some time ago when he failed to apply moral ethics to those fans who invested in the share scheme, when he sold the fans the Cheltenham move and when he took individual hostilities against certain people. Even Blair lost the right to being addressed mr, the similarities of those two eh? So you have no respect for the historical achievements of the past decades of financial support the Dunford family have given the club. The people who invested in the share scheme did so of their own accord, no one made them. As for "individual hostilities" how do you KNOW they weren't justified? Have'nt you ever been hostile to someone who has upset you or are you Mother Teresa in disguise? Thatslife Firstly no one is disrespecting what DENIS Dunford and his family did at the time to save the club. I know of no one who disrespects Denis and the others who kept the club alive in some of its darkest hours. The poster is knocking G Dunford and in a free country he is fully entitled to do so whether you think he is right or wrong. Secondly the people who entered the share scheme did so of their own volition however the parameters were changed by BRSC and by the directors. The share scheme for the last few years is not the share scheme people were led to believe they were joining. Thirdly unlike your good self there are people who go around without hating other people or being hostile towards them. I am no saint nor Mother Theresa (and by the way she wasn't perfect) but I have no malice towards any man even if I may disagree with some.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 16:23:09 GMT
So you have no respect for the historical achievements of the past decades of financial support the Dunford family have given the club. The people who invested in the share scheme did so of their own accord, no one made them. As for "individual hostilities" how do you KNOW they weren't justified? Have'nt you ever been hostile to someone who has upset you or are you Mother Teresa in disguise? Thatslife Firstly no one is disrespecting what DENIS Dunford and his family did at the time to save the club. I know of no one who disrespects Denis and the others who kept the club alive in some of its darkest hours. The poster is knocking G Dunford and in a free country he is fully entitled to do so whether you think he is right or wrong. Secondly the people who entered the share scheme did so of their own volition however the parameters were changed by BRSC and by the directors. The share scheme for the last few years is not the share scheme people were led to believe they were joining. Thirdly unlike your good self there are people who go around without hating other people or being hostile towards them. I am no saint nor Mother Theresa (and by the way she wasn't perfect) but I have no malice towards any man even if I may disagree with some. Chesh Small correction The shares scheme ceased to be what it was sold as when the SC Committee handed over money in contradiction of the rules set up and before the final binding agreement had been negotiated and signed. A small, but important point. Warwickgas That is not my understanding of the rules around preference shares. The interest rate payable on those shares is exactly that, interest and not a dividend in the normal definition of that term (distributable income). As such it is a binding contract, and the term deferred does not apply. What it is, is an admissio9n of the inability to meet a legally binding liability. The money owed to you, gross share value and accrued interest remains owed to you. I have a friend who bought many £000's of Preference Shares many years ago which the club could neither honour (as best as my recollection goes) either capital payback nor interest accrued. He obligingly converted the value into a multi season ticket.
In any other business, assuming that I am right in my definition, their credit rating would be shot to hell and they would have to pay cash for their tea bags as a result. If I am right don't sit on it, ask for your money back as they have in effect, defaulted. All in my humble opinion, I could of course be completely wrong.
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jozer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 365
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Post by jozer on Jul 5, 2014 17:13:47 GMT
A theory that occoured to me today-
Sainsburys have not pulled out, nor are they umming and arring. They have tabled a very firm offer, which is considerably less that the original one, on the grounds that it was based on them opening a store by a particular time which is now not going to happen even in a best case scenario.
This might explain why the BoD are having long meetings all the time, having been given a deadline to agree to the new offer or Sainsburys will walk.
Imagine all our esteemed Directors, each with their own ideas about whether a reduced offer is worth taking, and what to do if the deal falls through, or indeed what to do with the new smaller sum if it is agreed.
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Thatslife
"Decisions are made by those who turn up"
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 669
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Post by Thatslife on Jul 5, 2014 17:21:02 GMT
A theory that occoured to me today- Sainsburys have not pulled out, nor are they umming and arring. They have tabled a very firm offer, which is considerably less that the original one, on the grounds that it was based on them opening a store by a particular time which is now not going to happen even in a best case scenario. This might explain why the BoD are having long meetings all the time, having been given a deadline to agree to the new offer or Sainsburys will walk. Imagine all our esteemed Directors, each with their own ideas about whether a reduced offer is worth taking, and what to do if the deal falls through, or indeed what to do with the new smaller sum if it is agreed. If Sainsbury's scale back their offer then BRFC will need to scale back the size of the stadium. Simples. We dont actually need such a big stadium at present althou it would be nice.
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Post by mehewmagic on Jul 5, 2014 17:32:11 GMT
Quite why people follow him on twitter is beyond me particulary if they know he is a wind up merchant, a load of hot air followed by other people who express hot air just means all we are discussing is....hot air, just when will people learn
twitter is for idiots. full stop.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Jul 5, 2014 18:00:52 GMT
Quite why people follow him on twitter is beyond me particulary if they know he is a wind up merchant, a load of hot air followed by other people who express hot air just means all we are discussing is....hot air, just when will people learn
twitter is for idiots. full stop.
Do you mind if I tweet that?
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LJG
Peter Beadle
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 969
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Post by LJG on Jul 5, 2014 18:02:04 GMT
Thatslife Firstly no one is disrespecting what DENIS Dunford and his family did at the time to save the club. I know of no one who disrespects Denis and the others who kept the club alive in some of its darkest hours. The poster is knocking G Dunford and in a free country he is fully entitled to do so whether you think he is right or wrong. Secondly the people who entered the share scheme did so of their own volition however the parameters were changed by BRSC and by the directors. The share scheme for the last few years is not the share scheme people were led to believe they were joining. Thirdly unlike your good self there are people who go around without hating other people or being hostile towards them. I am no saint nor Mother Theresa (and by the way she wasn't perfect) but I have no malice towards any man even if I may disagree with some. Chesh Small correction The shares scheme ceased to be what it was sold as when the SC Committee handed over money in contradiction of the rules set up and before the final binding agreement had been negotiated and signed. A small, but important point. Warwickgas That is not my understanding of the rules around preference shares. The interest rate payable on those shares is exactly that, interest and not a dividend in the normal definition of that term (distributable income). As such it is a binding contract, and the term deferred does not apply. What it is, is an admissio9n of the inability to meet a legally binding liability. The money owed to you, gross share value and accrued interest remains owed to you. I have a friend who bought many £000's of Preference Shares many years ago which the club could neither honour (as best as my recollection goes) either capital payback nor interest accrued. He obligingly converted the value into a multi season ticket.
In any other business, assuming that I am right in my definition, their credit rating would be shot to hell and they would have to pay cash for their tea bags as a result. If I am right don't sit on it, ask for your money back as they have in effect, defaulted. All in my humble opinion, I could of course be completely wrong.
Depends on the type of pref share - you can have non-cumulative prefs in which case the debt doesn't stack up if it isn't paid year on year.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 19:04:08 GMT
A theory that occoured to me today- Sainsburys have not pulled out, nor are they umming and arring. They have tabled a very firm offer, which is considerably less that the original one, on the grounds that it was based on them opening a store by a particular time which is now not going to happen even in a best case scenario. This might explain why the BoD are having long meetings all the time, having been given a deadline to agree to the new offer or Sainsburys will walk. Imagine all our esteemed Directors, each with their own ideas about whether a reduced offer is worth taking, and what to do if the deal falls through, or indeed what to do with the new smaller sum if it is agreed. .......... or they want to delay the purchase for 12 months and see how the economy develops...
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