Angas
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Post by Angas on Feb 16, 2016 21:26:14 GMT
I'm not saying those who have invested large amounts are 'special'. When I say 'ordinary' I mean the majority of supporters who have bog standard salaried jobs. Nick Higgs has 'invested' huge sums on money into BRFC but I assume that's only a proportion of his total wealth. Plenty of supporters have dipped into their pockets over the years, but if they only have loose change to spare then that's all they can give. Doesn't make their contribution any less valuable imo. In fact possibly more valuable as they have less to fall back on, and more to lose/risk by not saving their cash for a personal rainy day. It's been my long held view that there has only been one consistent group of people which has kept Bristol Rovers in existence and that group is the supporters. Fair to say the BoD are also supporters. Just slightly better off than most of us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 21:39:13 GMT
It's been my long held view that there has only been one consistent group of people which has kept Bristol Rovers in existence and that group is the supporters. Fair to say the BoD are also supporters. Just slightly better off than most of us. A fair point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 21:40:58 GMT
Which takes us back to 'Where's the Mem'? Also, in another thread a while back, wasn't it said that Colin Sextone wasn't a Director, just an adviser, with quotes to back that up? [Angas is our archivist]. That's not what it says here. As a statement of the club's financial position, I'm not sure it puts me fully in the picture. The accounts are consolidated and the Mem appears under Note 9 Tangible Fixed Assets ~ Freehold property and improvements. It is shown at cost less depreciation plus consolidated (legal) costs relating to the new stadium ~ £4,423,847 Thanks Chesh. I wonder if a revaluation might be justified.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 17, 2016 12:09:55 GMT
Have to say, when I looked at the sums of money 'invested' in the club I was pretty staggered. Why would anyone put so much cash into something as precarious as a football club. It's crazy imo, or self indulgent. They must have money to burn. Ann & fellow Gashead, I am going to go out on a limb and disclose what I know and believe to be true. Please do not ask me to reveal the source as I will not do so but I think it very important that we try to affect some positive change. I had a conversation with, let's call him/her, gas lips, there is a significant amount of debt that no one has known about as NH has been very closed to any advice. We would be shocked to know how much the true amount is. There is a press conference ready to go on Friday. This is not the original consortium but other people. Gaslips said that they believe this to be the less fan tolerant of the two and there is great worry that even though the stadium will be built, there are deep concerns by others, of the reasons for it and if they really have the club and fans at heart Lastly, even with this being announced on Friday, it does not necessarily mean the original people are out. That is what I have been told and I am sharing it in the hope that the first people may break cover and push on. I hope that I can leave this here and not have people try to push me on who gaslips is. I heard a tone a deep concern and from someone who normally I class as a blue tinter. I am going out on a limb here as I feel it's in our interest to know more & I will try to get more detail when it is appropriate. Interesting times indeed and I really would like to know the true debt figure but, as always, that is only known by the one or two people that our chairman has no choice in them knowing. jon the stripe Does this tally with your information please ?
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Feb 17, 2016 12:30:03 GMT
Have to say, when I looked at the sums of money 'invested' in the club I was pretty staggered. Why would anyone put so much cash into something as precarious as a football club. It's crazy imo, or self indulgent. They must have money to burn. Ann & fellow Gashead, I am going to go out on a limb and disclose what I know and believe to be true. Please do not ask me to reveal the source as I will not do so but I think it very important that we try to affect some positive change. I had a conversation with, let's call him/her, gas lips, there is a significant amount of debt that no one has known about as NH has been very closed to any advice. We would be shocked to know how much the true amount is. There is a press conference ready to go on Friday. This is not the original consortium but other people. Gaslips said that they believe this to be the less fan tolerant of the two and there is great worry that even though the stadium will be built, there are deep concerns by others, of the reasons for it and if they really have the club and fans at heart Lastly, even with this being announced on Friday, it does not necessarily mean the original people are out. That is what I have been told and I am sharing it in the hope that the first people may break cover and push on. I hope that I can leave this here and not have people try to push me on who gaslips is. I heard a tone a deep concern and from someone who normally I class as a blue tinter. I am going out on a limb here as I feel it's in our interest to know more & I will try to get more detail when it is appropriate. Interesting times indeed and I really would like to know the true debt figure but, as always, that is only known by the one or two people that our chairman has no choice in them knowing. Jon the Stripe . Does this tally with your information please ? Surely we wouldn't sell out to people without the right intetions. Nick said so.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Feb 17, 2016 12:32:19 GMT
Ann & fellow Gashead, I am going to go out on a limb and disclose what I know and believe to be true. Please do not ask me to reveal the source as I will not do so but I think it very important that we try to affect some positive change. I had a conversation with, let's call him/her, gas lips, there is a significant amount of debt that no one has known about as NH has been very closed to any advice. We would be shocked to know how much the true amount is. There is a press conference ready to go on Friday. This is not the original consortium but other people. Gaslips said that they believe this to be the less fan tolerant of the two and there is great worry that even though the stadium will be built, there are deep concerns by others, of the reasons for it and if they really have the club and fans at heart Lastly, even with this being announced on Friday, it does not necessarily mean the original people are out. That is what I have been told and I am sharing it in the hope that the first people may break cover and push on. I hope that I can leave this here and not have people try to push me on who gaslips is. I heard a tone a deep concern and from someone who normally I class as a blue tinter. I am going out on a limb here as I feel it's in our interest to know more & I will try to get more detail when it is appropriate. Interesting times indeed and I really would like to know the true debt figure but, as always, that is only known by the one or two people that our chairman has no choice in them knowing. Jon the Stripe . Does this tally with your information please ? Surely we wouldn't sell out to people without the right intetions. Nick said so. Rats & Sinking ship come to mind
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
It's been my long held view that there has only been one consistent group of people which has kept Bristol Rovers in existence and that group is the supporters. Fair to say the BoD are also supporters. Just slightly better off than most of us. The support has been phenomenal given the position we found ourselves in. The regular fan has given and generously. These are the people who have funded players and wages, who have turned out in bigger numbers when we got relegated and who have travelled to even more away games. The fans forum supporters club have done their part as have the poor buggers, like me, who bought into the share scheme. It's all relative in anycase but at least us fans have not made decisions that have added to our financial burden. What I will never truly understand is that our chairman appears to want ALL of his investment paid off. I say appears as I don't know fully but it would seem to be about right. I do understand that if you lend money then you want it back and that is a natural thing but to basically absolve yourself from any culpability doesn't sit well with me. My own belief, just my opinion, is that NH is choosing the investors who will give him his money back rather than to really have the clubs best interests at heart but I could well be wrong & I wait in anticipation of the announcement on Friday. I struggle to see how turnover went down when our gates have been higher and costs have been cut to the bare bones. I am first to acknowledge that my grasp of finances is not the best but something just doesn't sit right with me on this. The club is nothing without us fans though. I really believe we deserve better and I would love to think I will live long enough to see Bristol Rovers in a new stadium and with owners that engage with us.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 17, 2016 12:44:17 GMT
Surely we wouldn't sell out to people without the right intetions. Nick said so. Rats & Sinking ship come to mind Ian, That is very much how I took this fella. It's odd but I do care and so this bothered me & it took awhile for me to take the decision to post this. I know I have been bitten on the rear before & so it was not the easiest of decisions to make. I do feel that there could be room to affect change though & so I posted in the hope that we can somehow push the first people into breaking cover. It does seem, from what I have gleaned, that these are the people who may have the club & fans at its heart As I said though, without further detail, I could be setting myself up. I hope not.
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Post by badbloodash on Feb 17, 2016 13:01:30 GMT
Rats & Sinking ship come to mind Ian, That is very much how I took this fella. It's odd but I do care and so this bothered me & it took awhile for me to take the decision to post this. I know I have been bitten on the rear before & so it was not the easiest of decisions to make. I do feel that there could be room to affect change though & so I posted in the hope that we can somehow push the first people into breaking cover. It does seem, from what I have gleaned, that these are the people who may have the club & fans at its heart As I said though, without further detail, I could be setting myself up. I hope not. Fair play mate for putting yourself in the firing line I was told in confidence a while ago that it's yanks who want the stadium for the university and necessarliy us but using us to get planning etc maybe it's time for people to bite the bullet and reveal what they know
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Feb 17, 2016 13:17:47 GMT
I just hope all this information is wrong. Thanks for sharing KP. We'll see what Friday brings. Personally I'd find it odd that, having come this far with the court case, the BoD would make any decision ahead of learning the result of the appeal. But life can be odd at times.
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Post by fanatical on Feb 17, 2016 13:58:28 GMT
I just hope all this information is wrong. Thanks for sharing KP. We'll see what Friday brings. Personally I'd find it odd that, having come this far with the court case, the BoD would make any decision ahead of learning the result of the appeal. But life can be odd at times. 1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced.
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Post by a more piratey game on Feb 17, 2016 14:23:04 GMT
I just hope all this information is wrong. Thanks for sharing KP. We'll see what Friday brings. Personally I'd find it odd that, having come this far with the court case, the BoD would make any decision ahead of learning the result of the appeal. But life can be odd at times. 1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced. no. 2 above looks more likely than a 'mistake' in the accounts to me. As others have noted, if the accounts have been signed by Grant Thornton (I didn't check) then its an embarrassingly big mistake. The 'mistake' could be just a bluff until Friday
I can't see how, as KP put it, the debts are much bigger than we know. Nothing has happened since the accounting date to change them, and GT auditors are generally reliable
my guess is that none of the above is true, and that the accounts and state of affairs is what it says on the tin
I still don't understand the debtor on the balance sheet though
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Feb 17, 2016 15:58:35 GMT
I just hope all this information is wrong. Thanks for sharing KP. We'll see what Friday brings. Personally I'd find it odd that, having come this far with the court case, the BoD would make any decision ahead of learning the result of the appeal. But life can be odd at times. 1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced. 1. No idea. 2. Quite likely. There's no way that could have been a typo with someone hitting one or two wrong keys - there's no correlation whatsoever between the old and new figures.
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Post by fanatical on Feb 17, 2016 17:33:53 GMT
1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced. 1. No idea. 2. Quite likely. There's no way that could have been a typo with someone hitting one or two wrong keys - there's no correlation whatsoever between the old and new figures. except in 2. three directors were shown to have divested some of their shares!! (at a profit?)
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Feb 17, 2016 17:43:04 GMT
1. No idea. 2. Quite likely. There's no way that could have been a typo with someone hitting one or two wrong keys - there's no correlation whatsoever between the old and new figures. except in 2. three directors were shown to have divested some of their shares!! (at a profit?) I missed that. I only looked at percentages for this year and they were all the same in both versions, apart from one which I think had gone up slightly (can't remember who, one of the lesser shareholders.) But I thought I'd agreed your suggestion in 2 could be correct anyway? (Based on the fact that I don't see how the difference between the two figures given for NH's shareholding could have been a typo. It's not like someone hitting 9 instead of 0 or 8. The difference is very random - not even one number in the same place.) So I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 17, 2016 18:07:22 GMT
1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced. 1. No idea. 2. Quite likely. There's no way that could have been a typo with someone hitting one or two wrong keys - there's no correlation whatsoever between the old and new figures. Angas I would say 1) NH does not know the outcome but perhaps his faith in the outcome could possibly be waning, just a thought. 2) I believe it looks like a part cut and paste job from the 2010 accounts. I would have thought if they were prepared on the basis of someone taking us over they would have taken most of the shares...
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Feb 17, 2016 18:11:29 GMT
1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced. I still don't understand the debtor on the balance sheet though
Is that the £6mln figure that people have questioned under note 12 Debtors? The accounts that BRFC 1883 have issued are consolidated i.e. 1883 plus the subsidiaries. Note 12 illustrates the Group position and the company (i.e. 1883 Ltd) position. The £6mln is the amount owed by the subsidiary BRFC ltd to 1883 the holding company.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 18:12:48 GMT
1 Do you really think that NH does not know the result of the appeal? 2. The mistake in the accounts indicate that a third party could already own 3,000,000 shares and could be the 'new' investor yet to be announced. 1. No idea. 2. Quite likely. There's no way that could have been a typo with someone hitting one or two wrong keys - there's no correlation whatsoever between the old and new figures. I must admit I thought that as well. Part of my job is managing stock and I will admit I have entered stock wrong; 10000 instead of 1000 or 3000 instead of 2000. One keystroke and it is all wrong but how do you go from 1500000 to 4419828? weird.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 18:51:47 GMT
except in 2. three directors were shown to have divested some of their shares!! (at a profit?) I missed that. I only looked at percentages for this year and they were all the same in both versions, apart from one which I think had gone up slightly (can't remember who, one of the lesser shareholders.) But I thought I'd agreed your suggestion in 2 could be correct anyway? (Based on the fact that I don't see how the difference between the two figures given for NH's shareholding could have been a typo. It's not like someone hitting 9 instead of 0 or 8. The difference is very random - not even one number in the same place.) So I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Shame on you Ann, I spotted it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2016 18:52:34 GMT
1. No idea. 2. Quite likely. There's no way that could have been a typo with someone hitting one or two wrong keys - there's no correlation whatsoever between the old and new figures. I must admit I thought that as well. Part of my job is managing stock and I will admit I have entered stock wrong; 10000 instead of 1000 or 3000 instead of 2000. One keystroke and it is all wrong but how do you go from 1500000 to 4419828? weird. Epileptic fit maybe?
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