Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 0:26:57 GMT
If there were clauses in the contract which were "open to interpretation" I cannot believe that the BoD would have not taken full legal advice on this received an opinion. One of the directors wives is a leading barrister in her field, a relevant field at that. I thought the purpose of the club commiting funds to remove what could be deemed an "onerous condition" from the planning approval was exactly what this was about? If there is a time limitation in the contract, then the Bod are going to look pretty silly given their pronouncements, are they not?
Personally I think this is black and white. Either the Sainsburys legal team have found a wrinkle to allow them to get out of the contract, or they have not. Whether judge agrees its a valid wrinkle is the only variable. He does, we lose the lot including their costs, the recent loan and most likely the club. He does not then Sainsburys pay the full contract value and the clubs costs.
Its not that hard is it?
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Post by onedaytheuwe on Mar 11, 2015 8:51:47 GMT
You may be right but for that to happen Sainsbury's would need to pull out 14 days before the hearing and accept defeat ( see above). We have a situation currently were Sainsbury's think they are right and we think similar. The problem is legal issues are never black and white and the judge may find 'gaps' in both parties. So maybe the question could be asked : What happenss if the judge finds a few areas we failed in but several Sainsbury's do too.
And if it is so black and white : why the need for both parties to make this a public fighting match. This as been raised at national level with David Cameroon via C.Lesley . It's been backed by the majority Labour group with insults aimed at Helen Holand ( Labour) by Trash and Dawn P have stepped in too with a letter of support.
Personally : I don't know : but I am not ruling out many many possible outcomes. Starting from £ 0 to £35 million with 'all that' in - between..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 12:00:15 GMT
I was chatting to Miss C.Lesley while sorting out her wireless computer network and of course the subject got round to the Henbury loop line and BRFC....
She said the Henbury loop line will be fully funded and she will be surprised if the Rovers v Sainsbury cas got to court..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 12:11:02 GMT
She said the Henbury loop line will be fully funded and she will be surprised if the Rovers v Sainsbury cas got to court.. I would imagine it would be fully funded, unlikely that it will be recomissioned by anyone for free, but did she say what the source of the funding was and how it would be commercially viable? Interesting that she thinks that things with Sainsbury's will be settled before it gets to court, didn't someone report back from last week's AGM that Rovers would not settle out of court?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 12:12:38 GMT
Personally : I don't know : but I am not ruling out many many possible outcomes. Starting from £ 0 to £35 million with 'all that' in - between.. But you are ruling out the possibility that Sainsbury's are within their rights to exit the contract, that they have explained to Rovers why and that they will claim their costs against us?
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 11, 2015 12:34:42 GMT
I was chatting to Miss C.Lesley while sorting out her wireless computer network and of course the subject got round to the Henbury loop line and BRFC.... She said the Henbury loop line will be fully funded and she will be surprised if the Rovers v Sainsbury cas got to court.. You missed out the main point, did she think we'd get enough money to build the UWE??
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 11, 2015 12:36:57 GMT
If there were clauses in the contract which were "open to interpretation" I cannot believe that the BoD would have not taken full legal advice on this received an opinion. One of the directors wives is a leading barrister in her field, a relevant field at that. I thought the purpose of the club commiting funds to remove what could be deemed an "onerous condition" from the planning approval was exactly what this was about? If there is a time limitation in the contract, then the Bod are going to look pretty silly given their pronouncements, are they not? Personally I think this is black and white. Either the Sainsburys legal team have found a wrinkle to allow them to get out of the contract, or they have not. Whether judge agrees its a valid wrinkle is the only variable. He does, we lose the lot including their costs, the recent loan and most likely the club. He does not then Sainsburys pay the full contract value and the clubs costs. Its not that hard is it? Surely there must be some kind of time limit as otherwise Sainsbury's legal team are going to look equally as silly as ours? Whether the time has passed or, in Sainsbury's view, going to be passed will surely come out during the trial, should the case get that far.
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strung out
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Post by strung out on Mar 11, 2015 12:41:57 GMT
You may be right but for that to happen Sainsbury's would need to pull out 14 days before the hearing and accept defeat ( see above). We have a situation currently were Sainsbury's think they are right and we think similar. The problem is legal issues are never black and white and the judge may find 'gaps' in both parties. So maybe the question could be asked : What happenss if the judge finds a few areas we failed in but several Sainsbury's do too. And if it is so black and white : why the need for both parties to make this a public fighting match. This as been raised at national level with David Cameroon via C.Lesley . It's been backed by the majority Labour group with insults aimed at Helen Holand ( Labour) by Trash and Dawn P have stepped in too with a letter of support. Personally : I don't know : but I am not ruling out many many possible outcomes. Starting from £ 0 to £35 million with 'all that' in - between.. Would depend on whether the contract can be divided into one or more separate agreements as to whether the contract is only partially enforceable or not. Whether there are gaps in either party's arguments won't make any difference in whether the judge decides to rule in favour of one or the other, and (assuming that the contract is made up of one single agreement), I think the judge will either rule the contract to be enforceable and order Sainsburys to cough up including costs, or deem the contract to be unenforceable because it has expired or the conditions have not been met. If Sainsburys have acted in such a way as to delay or obstruct the conditions of the contract that make it enforceable, then I'm not sure what happens (I'm not a contract lawyer), but I suspect that the judge will take a dim view of it and find in our favour.
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Post by eastvilleern on Mar 11, 2015 12:55:14 GMT
She said the Henbury loop line will be fully funded and she will be surprised if the Rovers v Sainsbury cas got to court.. I would imagine it would be fully funded, unlikely that it will be recomissioned by anyone for free, but did she say what the source of the funding was and how it would be commercially viable? Interesting that she thinks that things with Sainsbury's will be settled before it gets to court, didn't someone report back from last week's AGM that Rovers would not settle out of court? Trym Gas said She would be surprised if our case goes to court, your assumption is we'd be settling for a lesser amount out of court. Perhaps settling for the Full Amount would be the sensible thing to do, it could be now Sainsburys cant delay the issue thus forcing us in to surrender they know the white flag is in order. Regards Rich Utg
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 13:18:33 GMT
She said the Henbury loop line will be fully funded and she will be surprised if the Rovers v Sainsbury cas got to court.. I would imagine it would be fully funded, unlikely that it will be recomissioned by anyone for free, but did she say what the source of the funding was and how it would be commercially viable? Interesting that she thinks that things with Sainsbury's will be settled before it gets to court, didn't someone report back from last week's AGM that Rovers would not settle out of court? Yes she did say it will be fully funding including the recommission of the line for passenger services through to Avonmouth. She also said that the secretary of state had told her the extra funding will be coming from a different "pot" and they are in the process of applying for it As regards the Rovers issue i think she was speaking from a personnel viewpoint and not any "official" stance I stated to her that Rovers will take them to the cleaners and she just smiled
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 13:33:12 GMT
I would imagine it would be fully funded, unlikely that it will be recomissioned by anyone for free, but did she say what the source of the funding was and how it would be commercially viable? Interesting that she thinks that things with Sainsbury's will be settled before it gets to court, didn't someone report back from last week's AGM that Rovers would not settle out of court? Yes she did say it will be fully funding including the recommission of the line for passenger services through to Avonmouth. She also said that the secretary of state had told her the extra funding will be coming from a different "pot" and they are in the process of applying for it As regards the Rovers issue i think she was speaking from a personnel viewpoint and not any "official" stance I stated to her that Rovers will take them to the cleaners and she just smiled That rail link is a personal hobby horse of hers, you could almost get the impression that she's playing to an audience. No mention of how it makes any kind of commercial sense or how it will be viable in the long term? Sainsbury's are no fools, when did anyone last 'take them to the cleaners'? On the other hand, you don't have to look too long or hard to find them walking away from proposed land / property purchases.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 13:36:44 GMT
I would imagine it would be fully funded, unlikely that it will be recomissioned by anyone for free, but did she say what the source of the funding was and how it would be commercially viable? Interesting that she thinks that things with Sainsbury's will be settled before it gets to court, didn't someone report back from last week's AGM that Rovers would not settle out of court? Trym Gas said She would be surprised if our case goes to court, your assumption is we'd be settling for a lesser amount out of court. Perhaps settling for the Full Amount would be the sensible thing to do, it could be now Sainsburys cant delay the issue thus forcing us in to surrender they know the white flag is in order. Regards Rich Utg I'm making no such assumption, and in all honesty, I don't understand the prevailing opinion on this forum that compensation is due and it's just a question of how much is coming our way. I haven't seen the contract, I don't know whay Sainsbury's feel that they are not obliged to complete. For all we know Rovers could end up losing and have substantial costs awarded against them, we simply don't have enough information to even guess at the outcome.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Mar 11, 2015 13:39:26 GMT
Yes she did say it will be fully funding including the recommission of the line for passenger services through to Avonmouth. She also said that the secretary of state had told her the extra funding will be coming from a different "pot" and they are in the process of applying for it As regards the Rovers issue i think she was speaking from a personnel viewpoint and not any "official" stance I stated to her that Rovers will take them to the cleaners and she just smiled That rail link is a personal hobby horse of hers, you could almost get the impression that she's playing to an audience. No mention of how it makes any kind of commercial sense or how it will be viable in the long term? Sainsbury's are no fools, when did anyone last 'take them to the cleaners'? On the other hand, you don't have to look too long or hard to find them walking away from proposed land / property purchases. Indeed, obviously I hope Rovers win but when you see more stories like this one
www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/perth-kinross/sainsbury-s-store-plans-for-pitlochry-still-in-play-1.839866
or
www.cornishguardian.co.uk/Future-Coyte-Farm-development-doubt-Sainsbury-s/story-24551996-detail/story.html
you wonder what deals are signed and how they can seem to just get out of them. You have to hope our legal reps have managed to something many others don't seem to have
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womble
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Post by womble on Mar 11, 2015 13:56:44 GMT
She said the Henbury loop line will be fully funded and she will be surprised if the Rovers v Sainsbury cas got to court.. I would imagine it would be fully funded, unlikely that it will be recomissioned by anyone for free, but did she say what the source of the funding was and how it would be commercially viable? Interesting that she thinks that things with Sainsbury's will be settled before it gets to court, didn't someone report back from last week's AGM that Rovers would not settle out of court? For anyone that's interested, there's a shed load of information about MetroWest phase 2 (of which the Henbury Loop is a part), on the TravelWest website. In the Sainsbury's case, it sounds like Ms Leslie is just expressing a personal opinion that has no more weight than any of the other views expressed on here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 13:59:52 GMT
Yes she did say it will be fully funding including the recommission of the line for passenger services through to Avonmouth. She also said that the secretary of state had told her the extra funding will be coming from a different "pot" and they are in the process of applying for it As regards the Rovers issue i think she was speaking from a personnel viewpoint and not any "official" stance I stated to her that Rovers will take them to the cleaners and she just smiled That rail link is a personal hobby horse of hers, you could almost get the impression that she's playing to an audience. No mention of how it makes any kind of commercial sense or how it will be viable in the long term? Sainsbury's are no fools, when did anyone last 'take them to the cleaners'? On the other hand, you don't have to look too long or hard to find them walking away from proposed land / property purchases. The Henbury loop line is a very good way to get traffic "off the road" and if the mad man in charge of Bristol, "Darling George" gets his way a congestion charge will soon be applied to the centre of Bristol My personal problem with the Henbury loop line is that if they rebuild/reopen Henbury Station (i live close by) then what provision is there for Car parking as Henbury Station is part of a very large housing estate and cars will be parked on street during the day. I asked Charlotte this very question and she said that part of the major housing build going on at the bottom of Cribbs causeway, a provision for car parking will be provided.... yeah right !
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Mar 11, 2015 14:02:04 GMT
Trym Gas said She would be surprised if our case goes to court, your assumption is we'd be settling for a lesser amount out of court. Perhaps settling for the Full Amount would be the sensible thing to do, it could be now Sainsburys cant delay the issue thus forcing us in to surrender they know the white flag is in order. Regards Rich Utg I'm making no such assumption, and in all honesty, I don't understand the prevailing opinion on this forum that compensation is due and it's just a question of how much is coming our way. Hope I think.....The alternative is pretty ghastly to contemplate.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
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Post by faggotygas on Mar 11, 2015 14:14:55 GMT
If there were clauses in the contract which were "open to interpretation" I cannot believe that the BoD would have not taken full legal advice on this received an opinion. One of the directors wives is a leading barrister in her field, a relevant field at that. I thought the purpose of the club commiting funds to remove what could be deemed an "onerous condition" from the planning approval was exactly what this was about? If there is a time limitation in the contract, then the Bod are going to look pretty silly given their pronouncements, are they not? Personally I think this is black and white. Either the Sainsburys legal team have found a wrinkle to allow them to get out of the contract, or they have not. Whether judge agrees its a valid wrinkle is the only variable. He does, we lose the lot including their costs, the recent loan and most likely the club. He does not then Sainsburys pay the full contract value and the clubs costs. Its not that hard is it? Just a hunch - but this all sounds to me like the contract has gone past time, but there is a 'good faith' or 'best effort' clause in the contract, which Rovers believe that Sainsburys have not complied with. One of those vague things that can be argued, so you need a judge to rule on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 14:22:33 GMT
That rail link is a personal hobby horse of hers, you could almost get the impression that she's playing to an audience. No mention of how it makes any kind of commercial sense or how it will be viable in the long term? Sainsbury's are no fools, when did anyone last 'take them to the cleaners'? On the other hand, you don't have to look too long or hard to find them walking away from proposed land / property purchases. The Henbury loop line is a very good way to get traffic "off the road" and if the mad man in charge of Bristol, "Darling George" gets his way a congestion charge will soon be applied to the centre of Bristol How many passengers does she think will use the service each day? George Ferguson is a dangerous person, when he's kicked out of office the chaos he has caused will take a massive amount of money to correct. I think that people didn't understand what they were voting for, it sounded like a silly position where a bloke would ride around in a horse drawn charriot wearing a hat with a feather sticking out the top and probably ringing a big bell as well. We all know differently now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 14:33:19 GMT
The Henbury loop line is a very good way to get traffic "off the road" and if the mad man in charge of Bristol, "Darling George" gets his way a congestion charge will soon be applied to the centre of Bristol How many passengers does she think will use the service each day? George Ferguson is a dangerous person, when he's kicked out of office the chaos he has caused will take a massive amount of money to correct. I think that people didn't understand what they were voting for, it sounded like a silly position where a bloke would ride around in a horse drawn charriot wearing a hat with a feather sticking out the top and probably ringing a big bell as well. We all know differently now. i think for the first time EVER i agree with your sentiments.... note self... take more pills....
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womble
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Post by womble on Mar 11, 2015 15:14:02 GMT
The Henbury loop line is a very good way to get traffic "off the road" and if the mad man in charge of Bristol, "Darling George" gets his way a congestion charge will soon be applied to the centre of Bristol How many passengers does she think will use the service each day?George Ferguson is a dangerous person, when he's kicked out of office the chaos he has caused will take a massive amount of money to correct. I think that people didn't understand what they were voting for, it sounded like a silly position where a bloke would ride around in a horse drawn charriot wearing a hat with a feather sticking out the top and probably ringing a big bell as well. We all know differently now. Doesn't matter what she thinks, any rail project has to go through a fairly tortuous eight stage process to get approved. If the predicted numbers don't stack up to make a suitable cost benefit ratio, then it won't happen.
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