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Post by toteend3 on Dec 18, 2021 18:19:31 GMT
Again, do we have a vaccine now that prevents infection? I think you'll find that the answer is that no such vaccine exists. Behaviour is the problem. Now, it may well be that people who refuse the vaccine are more likely to act recklessly in general, but I'm not aware of data to support that assumption at this stage. Agreed TWD. Here in NZ the whole population is at 90% double vaccinated, the vast majority wear masks and vaccine passes are required for entry to most venues and public transport.I think the latter two steps are a major contributor to the death toll currently being just 49. It also took having our biggest city (Auckland), where the majority of cases were appearing,locked down for over 100 ak. Not ideal but the majority complied with the lockdown and it suppressed the viruses spread massively. That changed a few days ago and Aucklanders can now travel nationally. It will be interesting to see if a combination of having 90% vaccinated and those other measures stop the virus spread this time. That said, we don't have Omicron in the community....yet. And as can be seen in the UK, that's a real game changer. Make no mistake, it's coming for you! and when it does arrive it will spread like 'wildfire' kinda undoing a lot of the good work thus far. That said, as we are hoping here in Blighty, we accept this virus will undoubtedly cause havoc. Nevertheless i think we can be optimistic deaths can be kept down to a minimum as it is does seem to be, mild in nature. Good luck Jeff
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Post by alftupper on Dec 18, 2021 19:51:32 GMT
Personally, I`m not prepared to kill anybody to go to the pub or the football. I am prepared to take the risk, same as I`m prepared to take the risk that I might add to the fatalities on the road, every time I get behind the wheel. What are we all gonna do now? Are we all going to skulk away like Mrs Rochester, from now until the last syllable of recorded time? I`ve had both jabs and the booster; perfectly happy to mask up in shops etc and when I`m forced to use public transport, and agree that people should have to be able to demonstrate their vaccination status, at any large gathering. Which is what I`m doing this aft, on the Glos Rd with a few friends.
Don`t usually agree with E S, but I do re his point on keeping fit. Out at 8.30 this morning for a 5 mile run. Makes me feel much better about life. Mens sana in corpore sano, and all that.
Bit of a false equivocation there Alf. 2020 UK road deaths 1516. That's not just drivers, that's total road deaths. Virus related deaths are edging up towards 150,000 now. It really is an equation, how many deaths Vs what liberties / recreational facilities do you want open. I honestly don't know where this ends, just when you think things are settling and something approaching normality is returning to life, it all kicks off again and now we seem to be back to a position where football is about to be cancelled and who knows what follows on from that. Well, I`ve been on Glos Rd all afternoon, drinking the Devil`s brew and passing on the Devil`s virus. Doubtless, my last few hours are upon me. Was nice knowing you all. See you all Upstairs.
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Post by lostinspace on Dec 18, 2021 20:01:21 GMT
Bit of a false equivocation there Alf. 2020 UK road deaths 1516. That's not just drivers, that's total road deaths. Virus related deaths are edging up towards 150,000 now. It really is an equation, how many deaths Vs what liberties / recreational facilities do you want open. I honestly don't know where this ends, just when you think things are settling and something approaching normality is returning to life, it all kicks off again and now we seem to be back to a position where football is about to be cancelled and who knows what follows on from that. Well, I`ve been on Glos Rd all afternoon, drinking the Devil`s brew and passing on the Devil`s virus. Doubtless, my last few hours are upon me. Was nice knowing you all. See you all Upstairs. think it's bookings only,www.bookmeintothecloud.airain
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,282
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 18, 2021 20:14:08 GMT
I cannot believe that 25% of players in the EFL are not vaccinated and have no intention of having the jab, consequently all ready causing disproportionate disruption to games. Maybe i have been a little naive but surely they have a duty to their fellow players, their club and all of us the fans. Wan#ers! Yes, this news really shocked me. There are a lot of younger people who truly believe they are near enough immune to it and i just hope that we don’t see this backfire on them.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,282
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 18, 2021 20:18:47 GMT
I didn't realise there was a vaccination that prevented you from contracting the virus? Maybe the selfish people are those who are turning up at sports grounds, going to pubs, going in to shops when they really don't need to, going to night clubs etc, you get the idea. you mean having a life to keep themselves fit and mentally healthy, and keeping hard working businesses afloat and decent people in jobs? Don’t you think the liberal society element is important Duke - ring fence yourself if you want, keep yourself going if you want. But there must be a collective responsibility here. We will only start to start to get on top of this if people have a feeling of collective responsibility. I think that the unvaccinated player should not be paid if there get the virus or at least try to do all they can to avoid getting it. It’s extremely difficult not to judge give the situation as it is
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 20:44:03 GMT
Bit of a false equivocation there Alf. 2020 UK road deaths 1516. That's not just drivers, that's total road deaths. Virus related deaths are edging up towards 150,000 now. It really is an equation, how many deaths Vs what liberties / recreational facilities do you want open. I honestly don't know where this ends, just when you think things are settling and something approaching normality is returning to life, it all kicks off again and now we seem to be back to a position where football is about to be cancelled and who knows what follows on from that. Well, I`ve been on Glos Rd all afternoon, drinking the Devil`s brew and passing on the Devil`s virus. Doubtless, my last few hours are upon me. Was nice knowing you all. See you all Upstairs. Didn't do it properly, you've made it home to your computer. Next time try staggering up the middle of Glouces Rd. Give it a go after celebrating Celtic winning the cup tomorrow if you like.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,282
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 18, 2021 20:45:16 GMT
Personally, I`m not prepared to kill anybody to go to the pub or the football. I am prepared to take the risk, same as I`m prepared to take the risk that I might add to the fatalities on the road, every time I get behind the wheel. What are we all gonna do now? Are we all going to skulk away like Mrs Rochester, from now until the last syllable of recorded time? I`ve had both jabs and the booster; perfectly happy to mask up in shops etc and when I`m forced to use public transport, and agree that people should have to be able to demonstrate their vaccination status, at any large gathering. Which is what I`m doing this aft, on the Glos Rd with a few friends.
Don`t usually agree with E S, but I do re his point on keeping fit. Out at 8.30 this morning for a 5 mile run. Makes me feel much better about life. Mens sana in corpore sano, and all that.
Bit of a false equivocation there Alf. 2020 UK road deaths 1516. That's not just drivers, that's total road deaths. Virus related deaths are edging up towards 150,000 now. It really is an equation, how many deaths Vs what liberties / recreational facilities do you want open. I honestly don't know where this ends, just when you think things are settling and something approaching normality is returning to life, it all kicks off again and now we seem to be back to a position where football is about to be cancelled and who knows what follows on from that. From the research that i have been doing, this is due to the poorest in the world not having any vaccines plus there is a large proportion of those poor who are anti vaccine, i had to give the Mrs an ultimatum as i hated doing that as its a form of control but given my own health crap i can’t have her going to work and bringing it back to me. She now is fully vaccinated and boosted but she isn’t half going on about her arm hurting and i was always told that women had the higher pain tolerance. Her Polish friends are of the same opinion and the posts i see in the Polish groups sometimes makes me very angry as they are just not following the science. I’m stunned at the blasé attitude.
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Post by lostinspace on Dec 18, 2021 20:55:15 GMT
Well, I`ve been on Glos Rd all afternoon, drinking the Devil`s brew and passing on the Devil`s virus. Doubtless, my last few hours are upon me. Was nice knowing you all. See you all Upstairs. Didn't do it properly, you've made it home to your computer. Next time try staggering up the middle of Glouces Rd. Give it a go after celebrating Celtic winning the cup tomorrow if you like. 🤮
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Dec 18, 2021 23:50:59 GMT
Someone said they don’t normally agree with me, but they agree with me on this. It’s interesting because it spotlights the instinctive authoritarians from the instinctive libertarians. Left right Tory Labour has nothing to do with it. 99 Liberterian Conservative MPs rebelled against covid passports,and we can take it as fact Duke disagrees with them? Although called a murderer, I’m not going to come back hard and equally hysterical, but I would calmly say to you Duke, there’s other stats as well as the 150k you throw about, these stats showing deaths and harm from restrictions and lockdowns - excess deaths, year on year probably best way to measure covid death in each country who have different counting mechanisms, numbers killed by flu average winters (we don’t tend to mandate masks every year for flu to try to save some of those 10-30k), indirect deaths due to covid measures, be that lack of check ups that could catch something else early to save lives, cancelled or delayed ops, health issues related to less exercise and steps in day, mental health issues from greater isolation. How to assess the damage to education - I think all kids have suffered, but those most lazy ones teachers could have kept an eye on and pushed in normal circumstances sadly really have been hurt. This is even before mentioning economic damage from lockdowns restrictions and circuit breakers by stealth, where economic damage leads to more slipping into poverty that we know poverty leads to health problems including deaths.
I think it’s more complex and nuanced than the black and white view you came back with. And I’m not even the most frothy mouthed libertarian on this, just a centre ground liberal, I don’t mind the masks, or even the passport idea for football.
Having said all that, this Omicron surge is very real due to the greater transmission of the variant, who knows for sure the surge in hospital admissions and deaths coming in coming weeks and months, modelling seems to get left behind quickly as behaviours quickly change, but creaking health services, ambulances, lack of beds, lack of doctors nurses too who currently have to isolate when pinged does concern me, so the talk this evening of a lockdown I am approaching with an open mind.
i don’t think I can explain my position better than that, if you wish to concede some of it or call me a murderer is up to you.
but to be more on topic, the question is the number of unjabbed and the length a liberal democracy should go to force that issue, because those of us jabbed are starting to blame them. I think it was cabbagepatch, always readable for a cool wise approach, who pointed out we have % figures for unvaxxed, but there is likely a whole spectrum of different reasons in that %, can we pick and choose which reasons to respect or not, can we refuse health care to any subset unvaxxed covid sufferers? For example, some are anti vaxxed because they read on Twitter the reptiles trying to take over the earth are using it to turn us into reptile human hybrids. The challenge is, how we react will say more about us than them.
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Post by alftupper on Dec 19, 2021 7:35:51 GMT
Well, I`ve been on Glos Rd all afternoon, drinking the Devil`s brew and passing on the Devil`s virus. Doubtless, my last few hours are upon me. Was nice knowing you all. See you all Upstairs. Didn't do it properly, you've made it home to your computer. Next time try staggering up the middle of Glouces Rd. Give it a go after celebrating Celtic winning the cup tomorrow if you like. An afternoon on Glos Rd, doesn`t appear to have seen me off after all. Another 45 minutes for the sun to come up, and I`m off out on bike for a trip up Rownham Hill. Wasn`t really a massive sesh yesterday. A couple of years back, was drinking in the Mardyke and decided to walk home afterwards. Fell into some road works. Had to be helped out by passers by.
Have to work this afternoon, so shan`t be celebrating Left Footers losing the cup. Onwards and upwards.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Dec 19, 2021 8:10:34 GMT
Barney Ronay: The reality is this: 68% of footballers had been double vaccinated up to the most recent stats including the Premier League. Look a bit deeper and guess what? Those numbers are the same for men aged 20-30 in the UK population as a whole. End result: footballers are not laggards, not a special case. They simply reflect the reality of everyone else out there. Perhaps you could even say footballers are doing better than the general population. In the non-football world a quarter of people in that age group are obese. Just under a fifth will have a pre-existing health problem. No footballers are obese. These are the fittest people in the country. Ahem, Josh Barrel? And our centre forward is no sylph. Take your point tho You do love to roll out that Barrel . I just think he's a stocky person who puts on weight more easily than most. If he has mental problems to overcome then it's not surprising he couldn't keep himself trim. He tried and we tried, and he's now at King's Lean where he scored two worldies in his first match under Widdrington. You couldn't make it up. Personally, I think clubs should be putting their foot down over covid jabs like Klopp's done at Liverpool. Our three kids are in the late 20s early 30s group and it took more than gentle persuasion to get them to buckle up. It's a peer pressure thing.
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Post by toteend3 on Dec 19, 2021 21:47:20 GMT
Just booked my ninth jab hey ho better safe than sorry!
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Dec 19, 2021 23:59:23 GMT
Just booked my ninth jab hey ho better safe than sorry! and don’t forget your mask Attachment Deleted
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Post by gasheadpirate on Dec 20, 2021 10:40:26 GMT
I really cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. The vaccine and booster were never intended to stop everyone from getting the virus, the whole point was to reduce the chances of people from getting hospitalised or worse. There is plenty of evidence to show that the vaccines have done their job in reducing hospitalizations and deaths. If you have not yet had any jabs, please get on and do it.
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Post by matealotblue on Dec 20, 2021 10:46:55 GMT
I really cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. The vaccine and booster were never intended to stop everyone from getting the virus, the whole point was to reduce the chances of people from getting hospitalised or worse. There is plenty of evidence to show that the vaccines have done their job in reducing hospitalizations and deaths. If you have not yet had any jobs, please get on and do it. My missus gives me all my jobs thanks…..🤪
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Post by gasheadpirate on Dec 20, 2021 10:50:09 GMT
I really cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. The vaccine and booster were never intended to stop everyone from getting the virus, the whole point was to reduce the chances of people from getting hospitalised or worse. There is plenty of evidence to show that the vaccines have done their job in reducing hospitalizations and deaths. If you have not yet had any jobs, please get on and do it. My missus gives me all my jobs thanks…..🤪 Stupid predictive text. 🤣🙄
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,282
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Post by kingswood Polak on Dec 20, 2021 17:46:34 GMT
My missus gives me all my jobs thanks…..🤪 Stupid predictive text. 🤣🙄 Blow blow blow your boat, gently down the stream
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