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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2021 13:31:51 GMT
We know who rolled out The Barrel, but who actually rolled him in?
Before you say Garner, he actually took an instant dislike to him? Was it club, or manager? Was the DNA experiment where club, with new DOF on board signs players, head coach has to work with them, because one theme coming out, particularly from what Little said, managers didn’t get targets they wanted from windows, particularly Garner didn’t get his targets - yet all fans keep saying this manager responsible for that signing, that manager responsible for not replacing JCH, this managers squad took us down etc. Don’t you?
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 13:33:59 GMT
We know who rolled out The Barrel, but who actually rolled him in? Before you say Garner, he actually took an instant dislike to him? Was it club, or manager? Was the DNA experiment where club, with new DOF on board signs players, head coach has to work with them, because one theme coming out, particularly from what Little said, managers didn’t get targets they wanted from windows, particularly Garner didn’t get his targets - yet all fans keep saying this manager responsible for that signing, that manager responsible for not replacing JCH, this managers squad took us down etc. Don’t you? Almost certainly Widdrington. The old performance stats didn't have a box for weight and twitter posts
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 1, 2021 14:44:29 GMT
We know who rolled out The Barrel, but who actually rolled him in? Before you say Garner, he actually took an instant dislike to him? Was it club, or manager? Was the DNA experiment where club, with new DOF on board signs players, head coach has to work with them, because one theme coming out, particularly from what Little said, managers didn’t get targets they wanted from windows, particularly Garner didn’t get his targets.... Not buying it. BG was a head coach. If anyone was signed or got rid of, it had to have his sanction or surely his position would have been untenable? Unless he a submissive. BG went on record saying he wasn't going to like for like replace jch, yet he let him go and never bemoaned the lack of goals. Actually, to back him up many thought it was the best transfer window we had ever had [immediately pre last season] so I'm confident DOF scouts and presents the players potential for signing....and BG PT or JAB sanctions it. Much like GC did where every one of the signings on his watch made a valuable contribution (Mark Little exception). As a manager you can bemoan a lot of things such as market, valuations etc, but every one you bring in, you're responsible for.
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 15:07:25 GMT
We know who rolled out The Barrel, but who actually rolled him in? Before you say Garner, he actually took an instant dislike to him? Was it club, or manager? Was the DNA experiment where club, with new DOF on board signs players, head coach has to work with them, because one theme coming out, particularly from what Little said, managers didn’t get targets they wanted from windows, particularly Garner didn’t get his targets.... Not buying it. BG was a head coach. If anyone was signed or got rid of, it had to have his sanction or surely his position would have been untenable? Unless he a submissive. BG went on record saying he wasn't going to like for like replace jch, yet he let him go and never bemoaned the lack of goals. Actually, to back him up many thought it was the best transfer window we had ever had [immediately pre last season] so I'm confident DOF scouts and presents the players potential for signing....and BG PT or JAB sanctions it. Much like GC did where every one of the signings on his watch made a valuable contribution (Mark Little exception). As a manager you can bemoan a lot of things such as market, valuations etc, but every one you bring in, you're responsible for. I accept this. I blamed Tisdale for Jan window so can't then treat BG differently for Barrel.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Sept 1, 2021 15:18:14 GMT
We know who rolled out The Barrel, but who actually rolled him in? Before you say Garner, he actually took an instant dislike to him? Was it club, or manager? Was the DNA experiment where club, with new DOF on board signs players, head coach has to work with them, because one theme coming out, particularly from what Little said, managers didn’t get targets they wanted from windows, particularly Garner didn’t get his targets - yet all fans keep saying this manager responsible for that signing, that manager responsible for not replacing JCH, this managers squad took us down etc. Don’t you? Agree in a way but my beef is with the great architect who no one wishes to attach blame to. This is Wael’s problem and fault he abd his team of advisers had a vision and ducked it up. The buck stops with Wael and although many don’t like that and wish to see him as our saviour, it’s him who signed off on all of it. Any other job or if he wasn’t the owner and he would have been first to go.
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2021 17:04:13 GMT
We know who rolled out The Barrel, but who actually rolled him in? Before you say Garner, he actually took an instant dislike to him? Was it club, or manager? Was the DNA experiment where club, with new DOF on board signs players, head coach has to work with them, because one theme coming out, particularly from what Little said, managers didn’t get targets they wanted from windows, particularly Garner didn’t get his targets.... Not buying it. BG was a head coach. If anyone was signed or got rid of, it had to have his sanction or surely his position would have been untenable? Unless he a submissive. BG went on record saying he wasn't going to like for like replace jch, yet he let him go and never bemoaned the lack of goals. Actually, to back him up many thought it was the best transfer window we had ever had [immediately pre last season] so I'm confident DOF scouts and presents the players potential for signing....and BG PT or JAB sanctions it. Much like GC did where every one of the signings on his watch made a valuable contribution (Mark Little exception). As a manager you can bemoan a lot of things such as market, valuations etc, but every one you bring in, you're responsible for. I disagree on the grounds what Little said, he said he felt sorry for Garner because he asked for all these targets and the club didn’t bring them in. That was Tisdale anger as well. Your problem is obvious, your mind is very old skool when gaffers were gaffers. Until Joey took control like a proper moody gaffer managers were not in control for a while. Cocko and Tisdale walked, Ben eager for management was still struggling on with what he had. Here’s a question for you then, if you disagree with me, Tommy is still there? Will he outlast Joey?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 1, 2021 17:12:16 GMT
Not buying it. BG was a head coach. If anyone was signed or got rid of, it had to have his sanction or surely his position would have been untenable? Unless he a submissive. BG went on record saying he wasn't going to like for like replace jch, yet he let him go and never bemoaned the lack of goals. Actually, to back him up many thought it was the best transfer window we had ever had [immediately pre last season] so I'm confident DOF scouts and presents the players potential for signing....and BG PT or JAB sanctions it. Much like GC did where every one of the signings on his watch made a valuable contribution (Mark Little exception). As a manager you can bemoan a lot of things such as market, valuations etc, but every one you bring in, you're responsible for. I disagree on the grounds what Little said, he said he felt sorry for Garner because he asked for all these targets and the club didn’t bring them in. That was Tisdale anger as well. Your problem is obvious, your mind is very old skool when gaffers were gaffers. Until Joey took control like a proper moody gaffer managers were not in control for a while. Cocko and Tisdale walked, Ben eager for management was still struggling on with what he had. Here’s a question for you then, if you disagree with me, Tommy is still there? Will he outlast Joey? I honestly don't know. Not wishing to be evading. Probably. Tis never walked....he was definitely shoe horned out. You can't publicly covet a specific player, not get him, and have no back up, and then blame someone else! TW recruited GC signings, GC took responsibility for that and the acquisition of JCH at 11pm on January deadline day was shrewd. My question back to you is (regarding my perceived problem).... Why would any manager put up with new signing that just isn't good enough, if they hadn't had input into the acquisition?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2021 18:04:56 GMT
I disagree on the grounds what Little said, he said he felt sorry for Garner because he asked for all these targets and the club didn’t bring them in. That was Tisdale anger as well. Your problem is obvious, your mind is very old skool when gaffers were gaffers. Until Joey took control like a proper moody gaffer managers were not in control for a while. Cocko and Tisdale walked, Ben eager for management was still struggling on with what he had. Here’s a question for you then, if you disagree with me, Tommy is still there? Will he outlast Joey? I honestly don't know. Not wishing to be evading. Probably. Tis never walked....he was definitely shoe horned out. You can't publicly covet a specific player, not get him, and have no back up, and then blame someone else! TW recruited GC signings, GC took responsibility for that and the acquisition of JCH at 11pm on January deadline day was shrewd. My question back to you is (regarding my perceived problem).... Why would any manager put up with new signing that just isn't good enough, if they hadn't had input into the acquisition? the case of Garner, happy to be manager, soldiering on trying to make success of it. Maybe learnt a lot in the future about due diligence on players scouts and directors of football say should come in to meet the DNA. Similar with Cocko. You have one example, but Cocko departure was because the board was going in a not back him but back DOF instead direction. Tis danced into the flames of his sacking and pay off after what happened in ‘his’ window. That is the truth of what happened here. may have been a touch cheeky saying you have a problem, but materially what I said is the heritage of football in this country is the gaffer was the gaffer, especially about signings, which makes you completely right in the criticism you are throwing about if that was going on here, but that was never always the case throughout Europe and the World. And ownership of English clubs is going more international as well, so we should anticipate culture change. Until Joey reinstated sanity, do you know for sure what power Tommy wielded? And yes, is just giving so much control to the manager really sanity for a club?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2021 18:10:25 GMT
The first Football Manager computer games that came out in the 80’s didn’t have a DOF. In fact one of early ones was called the boss.
The way DOF is used in latest sims is you don’t sit down and negotiate contracts with players you leave it to him, also to an extent offloading players and transfer dealing them in. To,what extent does this differ in reality from club to club? Spurs for good current example, does Levi do everything the manager says?
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Sept 1, 2021 18:17:56 GMT
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 1, 2021 18:19:50 GMT
I honestly don't know. Not wishing to be evading. Probably. Tis never walked....he was definitely shoe horned out. You can't publicly covet a specific player, not get him, and have no back up, and then blame someone else! TW recruited GC signings, GC took responsibility for that and the acquisition of JCH at 11pm on January deadline day was shrewd. My question back to you is (regarding my perceived problem).... Why would any manager put up with new signing that just isn't good enough, if they hadn't had input into the acquisition? the case of Garner, happy to be manager, soldiering on trying to make success of it. Maybe learnt a lot in the future about due diligence on players scouts and directors of football say should come in to meet the DNA. Similar with Cocko. You have one example, but Cocko departure was because the board was going in a not back him but back DOF instead direction. Tis danced into the flames of his sacking and pay off after what happened in ‘his’ window. That is the truth of what happened here. may have been a touch cheeky saying you have a problem, but materially what I said is the heritage of football in this country is the gaffer was the gaffer, especially about signings, which makes you completely right in the criticism you are throwing about if that was going on here, but that was never always the case throughout Europe and the World. And ownership of English clubs is going more international as well, so we should anticipate culture change. Until Joey reinstated sanity, do you know for sure what power Tommy wielded? And yes, is just giving so much control to the manager really sanity for a club? I'll try reverse answering! Um, it's worked in the past.... Gerry done ok, Ollie less successful, but sanity pushed it to the point of breaking, as ever it's a tried and tested method that's historically been successful....even DC done ok by it, he actually introduced TW to our set up! But for me: manager picks the team, takes responsibility and everyone around the playing set up are there to assist him. Not the other way round. That's where confusion and chaos reigns. I know nothing about the power T wielded or continues to. The GC era relied heavily on his recruitment. TW has to take credit for that, but the rest was down to GC. I see it the same in reverse regarding BG.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 1, 2021 18:24:04 GMT
The first Football Manager computer games that came out in the 80’s didn’t have a DOF. In fact one of early ones was called the boss. The way DOF is used in latest sims is you don’t sit down and negotiate contracts with players you leave it to him, also to an extent offloading players and transfer dealing them in. To,what extent does this differ in reality from club to club? Spurs for good current example, does Levi do everything the manager says? I know I'm thick, but I don't understand the connection between scouting, recruitment and monitoring players AND finance? .... especially being a director of. Sure, there must be some awareness, but I don't see it as a directly connected skill... Am I missing something?
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Post by a more piratey game on Sept 20, 2021 14:38:39 GMT
this from Frosty today. It doesn't explain everything, but makes sense and gives some useful pointers I think....
Ben Garner came highly recommended. The early signs at Swindon show he has learned a lot from his time at Rovers.
At least with that appointment, Rovers had a clear plan. It did not work, but there was a strategy.
The Paul Tisdale appointment was, I'm told, influenced by Martyn Starnes and Tommy Widdrington.
In hindsight, it is clear to see he was the wrong fit for that group and the strategy Rovers were trying to execute.
He was experienced but his style of play was all wrong for that squad, and his management style was not a great fit for a young group without many strong characters.
With the Barton appointment, Rovers were clearly looking for a spark to give their season some life. His appointment was given total backing from Wael Al-Qadi.
He did not succeed in his primary aim of keeping Rovers up, and the struggles of last season have bled into this campaign.
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