Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 9:33:10 GMT
Agreed, but you really do need to drop people like Dean and find people of the calibre of Wayne Barnes and Nigel Owens. Just tell the players what's what, if they answer back penalise them. But you also have to be consistent with your decision making and not start off favouring Man Utd, which the FA always have, and you can't regard 'talking points' as being good for the game. Then maybe you'll make some progress. There would have to be a structure but contentious decisions would be explained. VAR has taken away so many decisions where we think 'why has he given that?' Let's stick with my same 2 examples, VAR now leaves us with Pogba having probably a red card, absolute minimum a yellow, but they looked at it as it was part of the build up to a goal and gave nothing. Laportte swung a fist at Chambers and caught him, straight arm, in the face, no other players around, clear view of what happened, within 3 seconds City had scored, straight red is literally the only available decision, but the goal stood. Our game is corrupt, it's run by cheats. Please explain to me how and why anybody should respect them? |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 9:57:15 GMT
There would have to be a structure but contentious decisions would be explained. VAR has taken away so many decisions where we think 'why has he given that?' Let's stick with my same 2 examples, VAR now leaves us with Pogba having probably a red card, absolute minimum a yellow, but they looked at it as it was part of the build up to a goal and gave nothing. Laportte swung a fist at Chambers and caught him, straight arm, in the face, no other players around, clear view of what happened, within 3 seconds City had scored, straight red is literally the only available decision, but the goal stood. Our game is corrupt, it's run by cheats. Please explain to me how and why anybody should respect them? I don't get why these weren't given |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 10:56:36 GMT
Let's stick with my same 2 examples, VAR now leaves us with Pogba having probably a red card, absolute minimum a yellow, but they looked at it as it was part of the build up to a goal and gave nothing. Laportte swung a fist at Chambers and caught him, straight arm, in the face, no other players around, clear view of what happened, within 3 seconds City had scored, straight red is literally the only available decision, but the goal stood. Our game is corrupt, it's run by cheats. Please explain to me how and why anybody should respect them? I don't get why these weren't given Not going to spend half hour finding it, but a few years back something came out of HQ along the lines of 'creating talking points is good for the game'. I see the whole thing as being linked, if it's blindingly obvious that the top end of the game just make rules up as they go along then, sadly, the young guy who wants to go out to the local park or field and help out by being ref or running the line is on a hiding to nothing. My view is that change is going to have to start at the top end of the game. Then we have team behaviour issues as well which officials are going to struggle with. Check S.E. Dons on YouTube, horrible club. They regard what they do as 'banter' but it's continual, not stop harassment of officials, opposition and any opposition supporters. I'm sure that there have been games involving that club that officials would have liked to have abandoned, but haven't because they've been fearful about what would have happened. Their keeper is the worst offender, always niggling and says that it's just playful banter, but the second anybody does it back he gets seriously aggressive and says that the game is too serious for him to tolerate being treated that way. I suspect that at grass roots level officials struggle with this stuff all over the country every single weekend. |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 11:01:43 GMT
I don't get why these weren't given Not going to spend half hour finding it, but a few years back something came out of HQ along the lines of 'creating talking points is good for the game'. I see the whole thing as being linked, if it's blindingly obvious that the top end of the game just make rules up as they go along then, sadly, the young guy who wants to go out to the local park or field and help out by being ref or running the line is on a hiding to nothing. My view is that change is going to have to start at the top end of the game. Then we have team behaviour issues as well which officials are going to struggle with. Check S.E. Dons on YouTube, horrible club. They regard what they do as 'banter' but it's continual, not stop harassment of officials, opposition and any opposition supporters. I'm sure that there have been games involving that club that officials would have liked to have abandoned, but haven't because they've been fearful about what would have happened. Their keeper is the worst offender, always niggling and says that it's just playful banter, but the second anybody does it back he gets seriously aggressive and says that the game is too serious for him to tolerate being treated that way. I suspect that at grass roots level officials struggle with this stuff all over the country every single weekend. They are bullies |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 12:23:05 GMT
Not going to spend half hour finding it, but a few years back something came out of HQ along the lines of 'creating talking points is good for the game'. I see the whole thing as being linked, if it's blindingly obvious that the top end of the game just make rules up as they go along then, sadly, the young guy who wants to go out to the local park or field and help out by being ref or running the line is on a hiding to nothing. My view is that change is going to have to start at the top end of the game. Then we have team behaviour issues as well which officials are going to struggle with. Check S.E. Dons on YouTube, horrible club. They regard what they do as 'banter' but it's continual, not stop harassment of officials, opposition and any opposition supporters. I'm sure that there have been games involving that club that officials would have liked to have abandoned, but haven't because they've been fearful about what would have happened. Their keeper is the worst offender, always niggling and says that it's just playful banter, but the second anybody does it back he gets seriously aggressive and says that the game is too serious for him to tolerate being treated that way. I suspect that at grass roots level officials struggle with this stuff all over the country every single weekend. They are bullies So you are aware of them and their antics. If I know about them, and you do as well, surely they must have come to the attention of whoever regulates their League. So in this case that's where the fault is don't you think? And this is a team who openly broadcast themselves, there are probably worse offenders out there. I would like to think that I would give them a couple of warnings about behaviour, tell their supporters to keep off the pitch once, and not hesitate to abandon the game. If it happened a couple of times they would soon work it out. But the real world problem is, the officials want to get away from the area safely  |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 12:37:32 GMT
So you are aware of them and their antics. If I know about them, and you do as well, surely they must have come to the attention of whoever regulates their League. So in this case that's where the fault is don't you think? And this is a team who openly broadcast themselves, there are probably worse offenders out there. I would like to think that I would give them a couple of warnings about behaviour, tell their supporters to keep off the pitch once, and not hesitate to abandon the game. If it happened a couple of times they would soon work it out. But the real world problem is, the officials want to get away from the area safely No i am not aware of them til you said and i will check them out. I can make my opinion just from what you described. Sorry if i gave the wrong impression. You clearly have the same passion for this as me, it is a disease. There is a problem with their local FA. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 13:15:00 GMT
So you are aware of them and their antics. If I know about them, and you do as well, surely they must have come to the attention of whoever regulates their League. So in this case that's where the fault is don't you think? And this is a team who openly broadcast themselves, there are probably worse offenders out there. I would like to think that I would give them a couple of warnings about behaviour, tell their supporters to keep off the pitch once, and not hesitate to abandon the game. If it happened a couple of times they would soon work it out. But the real world problem is, the officials want to get away from the area safely No i am not aware of them til you said and i will check them out. I can make my opinion just from what you described. Sorry if i gave the wrong impression. You clearly have the same passion for this as me, it is a disease. There is a problem with their local FA. It's not something I agonise over, but I do wonder what motivates people to want to officiate at lower levels, you are on a hiding to nothing. Just searched for SE Dons on YouTube, first result that comes up has a game abandoned after a referee is struck in the back of the head after a huge fuss due to 3 or 4 of their players being in the area when a penalty is saved by their keeper. First off their keeper grabs the ball and whacks it down on the head of a player, he already has a yellow so gets another and is off, then all hell breaks loose. It's not a witch hunt against that team, as said, I suspect that this is happening up and down the country every Sat and Sun. |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 13:22:46 GMT
No i am not aware of them til you said and i will check them out. I can make my opinion just from what you described. Sorry if i gave the wrong impression. You clearly have the same passion for this as me, it is a disease. There is a problem with their local FA. It's not something I agonise over, but I do wonder what motivates people to want to officiate at lower levels, you are on a hiding to nothing. Just searched for SE Dons on YouTube, first result that comes up has a game abandoned after a referee is struck in the back of the head after a huge fuss due to 3 or 4 of their players being in the area when a penalty is saved by their keeper. First off their keeper grabs the ball and whacks it down on the head of a player, he already has a yellow so gets another and is off, then all hell breaks loose. It's not a witch hunt against that team, as said, I suspect that this is happening up and down the country every Sat and Sun. You are not remotely making it a witch hunt, i have a list of teams at kids level that have not done as bad as that but need to be brought to book. My lad did the ref course when he was 14 and it was really good for hia discipline and focus, he felt as though he was teaching the young kids, especially at 7 and 8 but as it gets to u10 boys it goes to pot. Girls from u12 onwards. Its down to their role models, coaches and parents. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 14:05:18 GMT
It's not something I agonise over, but I do wonder what motivates people to want to officiate at lower levels, you are on a hiding to nothing. Just searched for SE Dons on YouTube, first result that comes up has a game abandoned after a referee is struck in the back of the head after a huge fuss due to 3 or 4 of their players being in the area when a penalty is saved by their keeper. First off their keeper grabs the ball and whacks it down on the head of a player, he already has a yellow so gets another and is off, then all hell breaks loose. It's not a witch hunt against that team, as said, I suspect that this is happening up and down the country every Sat and Sun. You are not remotely making it a witch hunt, i have a list of teams at kids level that have not done as bad as that but need to be brought to book. My lad did the ref course when he was 14 and it was really good for hia discipline and focus, he felt as though he was teaching the young kids, especially at 7 and 8 but as it gets to u10 boys it goes to pot. Girls from u12 onwards. Its down to their role models, coaches and parents. Well, I've said what I think the starting point is, deal with the top end of the game and in time respect will filter down, what do you think needs to happen? |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 1, 2021 21:22:51 GMT
Just watched one of the SE Dons vids on YT.
hmm...
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Sept 2, 2021 22:38:16 GMT
The thing I found eye opening was learning about how poorly renumerated referees are at the lower levels.
I'm a qualified cricket umpire and I will do about 5/6 games a year at a really low level of recreational cricket. For this I get paid somewhere between £40-50 a game for expenses depending on the number of overs. I hasten to add that I don't do it for the money but that seems like quite a generous deal. Club cricket is not exactly dripping in money but players are generally happy to pay for this in order to have a nicer game umpired by a neutral rather than having to do it themselves which can create issues. I don't think I'm a particularly great umpire but I'm OK and could probably do a higher level of recreational cricket if I want to and there is a clear 'career structure' should I want to take it further at each stage of which I would get higher amounts of money which again seems fair enough. It's not enough to live on but quite a lot of people make a decent secondary wage in the summer doing this in my area once you take into account University matches, Junior County games, women's cricket etc.
Contrast that with the experience of a guy I used to play cricket with in Bristol who is now on the football refereeing ladder. Having done 4/5 years working his way up the recreational and local systems he now at a level where he runs the line up to Conference standard and can referee up to Southern league level. So in general all the players he is officiating are being paid and quite a few are full time pros. Yet some weekends he won't even receive a penny. Expenses are given on the basis of travel only and officials are expected to travel to games together to save on costs. The expenses are then given to the referee and it is his call how they are then divvied out.
This guy recounted a story of being called up to run the line in a game at Margate on a Tuesday night at the last. He had to get time of work and didn't get back till nearly 2AM in the morning - something he felt he had to do as an ambitious referee who wanted to continue to go up the systems and therefore felt he needed to take anything available. But the referee did not give him any money for this - not because he was being tight but because they all had to travel up from Bristol and that blew the entire expense budget on travel costs so there wasn't any money left to dole out. I just find it extraordinary that I can get £50 for standing in the sunshine for an afternoon to umpire an absolutely atrocious standard of cricket yet someone officiating semi-professional football can potentially get nothing at all for their efforts. I feel like this should be a much bigger story/scandal than it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2021 23:22:44 GMT
Just watched one of the SE Dons vids on YT. hmm... Trouble, aren't they |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 3, 2021 6:28:54 GMT
The thing I found eye opening was learning about how poorly renumerated referees are at the lower levels.
I'm a qualified cricket umpire and I will do about 5/6 games a year at a really low level of recreational cricket. For this I get paid somewhere between £40-50 a game for expenses depending on the number of overs. I hasten to add that I don't do it for the money but that seems like quite a generous deal. Club cricket is not exactly dripping in money but players are generally happy to pay for this in order to have a nicer game umpired by a neutral rather than having to do it themselves which can create issues. I don't think I'm a particularly great umpire but I'm OK and could probably do a higher level of recreational cricket if I want to and there is a clear 'career structure' should I want to take it further at each stage of which I would get higher amounts of money which again seems fair enough. It's not enough to live on but quite a lot of people make a decent secondary wage in the summer doing this in my area once you take into account University matches, Junior County games, women's cricket etc.
Contrast that with the experience of a guy I used to play cricket with in Bristol who is now on the football refereeing ladder. Having done 4/5 years working his way up the recreational and local systems he now at a level where he runs the line up to Conference standard and can referee up to Southern league level. So in general all the players he is officiating are being paid and quite a few are full time pros. Yet some weekends he won't even receive a penny. Expenses are given on the basis of travel only and officials are expected to travel to games together to save on costs. The expenses are then given to the referee and it is his call how they are then divvied out.
This guy recounted a story of being called up to run the line in a game at Margate on a Tuesday night at the last. He had to get time of work and didn't get back till nearly 2AM in the morning - something he felt he had to do as an ambitious referee who wanted to continue to go up the systems and therefore felt he needed to take anything available. But the referee did not give him any money for this - not because he was being tight but because they all had to travel up from Bristol and that blew the entire expense budget on travel costs so there wasn't any money left to dole out. I just find it extraordinary that I can get £50 for standing in the sunshine for an afternoon to umpire an absolutely atrocious standard of cricket yet someone officiating semi-professional football can potentially get nothing at all for their efforts. I feel like this should be a much bigger story/scandal than it is.
My son gets £20 per game for kids football. £50 for cricket, a much longer game, seems small, but i can't see clubs paying more to be fair. |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 3, 2021 6:58:41 GMT
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 10, 2021 15:41:15 GMT
Referee for the Hartlepool v Rovers game is Rebecca Welch.
I bet everyone is a bit more respectful. I hope they are.
Good luck to her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 18:54:58 GMT
Referee for the Hartlepool v Rovers game is Rebecca Welch. I bet everyone is a bit more respectful. I hope they are. Good luck to her. Are there any male referees is the top divisions of female football in this country? |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 10, 2021 23:07:24 GMT
Referee for the Hartlepool v Rovers game is Rebecca Welch. I bet everyone is a bit more respectful. I hope they are. Good luck to her. Are there any male referees is the top divisions of female football in this country? I would say not, i think they were called for at the 2019 world cup and it didn't happen. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2021 9:23:25 GMT
Are there any male referees is the top divisions of female football in this country? I would say not, i think they were called for at the 2019 world cup and it didn't happen. Sounds like discrimination to me. I'm sure there are better qualified officials being excluded so that females are given those games to officiate. |
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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 11, 2021 10:49:41 GMT
I would say not, i think they were called for at the 2019 world cup and it didn't happen. Sounds like discrimination to me. I'm sure there are better qualified officials being excluded so that females are given those games to officiate. Potentially box ticking yeah, but i hope she has a good game |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2021 10:56:46 GMT
Sounds like discrimination to me. I'm sure there are better qualified officials being excluded so that females are given those games to officiate. Potentially box ticking yeah, but i hope she has a good game Totally agree. The bar is set pretty low in terms of the quality of male officials that we have, so I'm sure she'll be just fine. I want equality of opportunity everywhere, all across society, no barriers based on gender, skin colour or any other meaningless attribute, but I don't want preferential treatment afforded to people based on any of those characteristics either. To those who want equality of outcome, you promote the exact discrimination that you claim to campaign against. |
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