eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,600
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 20, 2021 17:57:23 GMT
Our first goal ,the corner goal...Reminds me of the 70s long throw into big Stuart Taylor, his back header to be met and put into the net by eg Paul Randall. I thought the same! I'm surprised nobody has questioned whether Crewe's first goal (so admired by PT in his after-match interview) was offside. We'll never know (unless a view from a different camera emerges) because the iFollow angle didn't take in the full picture across the pitch when the ball was played in. However, as the ball went into the net, the Rovers back-line looked nice and straight, and all running back to goal. That suggests their starting positions (a second earlier when the ball was played) was upfield of the goal-scorer. Three defenders appealed for offside, but that doesn't prove anything, as all defenders always appeal for offside. Seconds after the restart following that early goal, Beccles pulled back on Hanlon's arm 25 yards out from goal. The officials missed it. It set the pattern. Crewe had the dark arts off to a "T". Nobody can convince me that so many players needed so much treatment for so long. In the second half alone, more than 6 minutes elapsed whilst the Crewe physio attended to 5 different players at different stages. Add to that the stoppage time for 3 goals and several substitutions and you end up with needing to add on 10 minutes. I remember games where the ref has added on lengthy times like that - why not yesterday? When a Crewe player kicked the ball away, having conceded a free-kick, it took Ed Upson to complain to the ref about time-wasting before he even considered taking the Crewe player to task for it. Refereeing shortcomings aside, I winced at: Rovers only sending one defender across to stand 10 yards from a corner being taken with two attackers over the ball. For decades, the accepted practice was that you needed two defenders out there, otherwise the two competent attackers would pass the ball around you, in effect creating a "hockey short-corner" crossing opportunity. I first noticed that DC's teams didn't follow that practice- GC soon re-instated it! - but Ben Garner seemed happy for only one defender ten yards from the corner flag. (He might have instructed another to get out there quickly, if the short-corner was played). PT doesn't seem to insist on the two-defender thinking. There were enough bodies to block the shot for Crewe's second goal, but we seemed to lack the urgency to close down the shot. Prior to that, there wasn't enough done to stop the cross coming in. I noticed when we attacked, Crewe always seemed to have a midfielder backing up the full back, so we had to work particularly hard to get any kind of cross in. Not for the first time (cf Wimbledon's second goal at their place) our defending from a deep free-kick was woeful. The eventual scorer of Crewe's third goal was marked - though not tightly - as the free kick was about to be taken, but had no trouble getting goal-side of his marker to meet the ball unopposed. I contrast our defending there with that displayed by, say, Coventry away last season, where their defenders wrestled our players in an effort to stop a threat from a set-piece. (Remember that? As it happened, we still managed to get the ball in the net, but the referee disallowed the goal, imagining the contact he saw being a foul BY the Rovers man - having seen the video replay the next day, he subsequently contacted Graham Coughlan to apologise, I understand). So the point is, why don't we rough the opponents up in an effort to stop the threat? The referees give random decisions anyway. Sadly, whilst the above examples focused on Crewe's goals, there were many other preventable Crewe attacks where only last-ditch defending or errant Crewe finishing put off further misery. There were many pleasing moves by Rovers - another day some of the last-ditch Crewe blocks in their own penalty area might have gone in, but we need to improve all aspects of the game - including the dark arts - if we are going to get out of the League One worry-zone. Ah - but we had our very own Grand Master of the Dark arts. And we let him go. Tony Craig. Very rarely booked. A brilliant organiser and mentor to the youngsters. And very obviously sorely missed.
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Jan 20, 2021 18:56:16 GMT
I thought the same! I'm surprised nobody has questioned whether Crewe's first goal (so admired by PT in his after-match interview) was offside. We'll never know (unless a view from a different camera emerges) because the iFollow angle didn't take in the full picture across the pitch when the ball was played in. However, as the ball went into the net, the Rovers back-line looked nice and straight, and all running back to goal. That suggests their starting positions (a second earlier when the ball was played) was upfield of the goal-scorer. Three defenders appealed for offside, but that doesn't prove anything, as all defenders always appeal for offside. Seconds after the restart following that early goal, Beccles pulled back on Hanlon's arm 25 yards out from goal. The officials missed it. It set the pattern. Crewe had the dark arts off to a "T". Nobody can convince me that so many players needed so much treatment for so long. In the second half alone, more than 6 minutes elapsed whilst the Crewe physio attended to 5 different players at different stages. Add to that the stoppage time for 3 goals and several substitutions and you end up with needing to add on 10 minutes. I remember games where the ref has added on lengthy times like that - why not yesterday? When a Crewe player kicked the ball away, having conceded a free-kick, it took Ed Upson to complain to the ref about time-wasting before he even considered taking the Crewe player to task for it. Refereeing shortcomings aside, I winced at: Rovers only sending one defender across to stand 10 yards from a corner being taken with two attackers over the ball. For decades, the accepted practice was that you needed two defenders out there, otherwise the two competent attackers would pass the ball around you, in effect creating a "hockey short-corner" crossing opportunity. I first noticed that DC's teams didn't follow that practice- GC soon re-instated it! - but Ben Garner seemed happy for only one defender ten yards from the corner flag. (He might have instructed another to get out there quickly, if the short-corner was played). PT doesn't seem to insist on the two-defender thinking. There were enough bodies to block the shot for Crewe's second goal, but we seemed to lack the urgency to close down the shot. Prior to that, there wasn't enough done to stop the cross coming in. I noticed when we attacked, Crewe always seemed to have a midfielder backing up the full back, so we had to work particularly hard to get any kind of cross in. Not for the first time (cf Wimbledon's second goal at their place) our defending from a deep free-kick was woeful. The eventual scorer of Crewe's third goal was marked - though not tightly - as the free kick was about to be taken, but had no trouble getting goal-side of his marker to meet the ball unopposed. I contrast our defending there with that displayed by, say, Coventry away last season, where their defenders wrestled our players in an effort to stop a threat from a set-piece. (Remember that? As it happened, we still managed to get the ball in the net, but the referee disallowed the goal, imagining the contact he saw being a foul BY the Rovers man - having seen the video replay the next day, he subsequently contacted Graham Coughlan to apologise, I understand). So the point is, why don't we rough the opponents up in an effort to stop the threat? The referees give random decisions anyway. Sadly, whilst the above examples focused on Crewe's goals, there were many other preventable Crewe attacks where only last-ditch defending or errant Crewe finishing put off further misery. There were many pleasing moves by Rovers - another day some of the last-ditch Crewe blocks in their own penalty area might have gone in, but we need to improve all aspects of the game - including the dark arts - if we are going to get out of the League One worry-zone. Ah - but we had our very own Grand Master of the Dark arts. And we let him go. Tony Craig. Very rarely booked. A brilliant organiser and mentor to the youngsters. And very obviously sorely missed. One of the callers to Radio Bristol after the game described the squad bequeathed by Garner as "lop-sided", which I think sums it up very well.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 21, 2021 10:21:13 GMT
Ah - but we had our very own Grand Master of the Dark arts. And we let him go. Tony Craig. Very rarely booked. A brilliant organiser and mentor to the youngsters. And very obviously sorely missed. One of the callers to Radio Bristol after the game described the squad bequeathed by Garner as "lop-sided", which I think sums it up very well. This is being kind. It’s a clusterfeck of a squad, thing is we can’t just blame Garner as Tommy W is the man for recruiting and he’s now on the board !
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Post by laughinggas on Jan 21, 2021 10:44:35 GMT
One of the callers to Radio Bristol after the game described the squad bequeathed by Garner as "lop-sided", which I think sums it up very well. This is being kind. It’s a clusterfeck of a squad, thing is we can’t just blame Garner as Tommy W is the man for recruiting and he’s now on the board ! Get it right, Tom W works in conjunction with the manager. He does not throw players at the manager. BG wanted to play 1 up front so it was decided that 3 strikers was enough. He finds players according to what the manager wants, he has stated he did not agree with all GC signings but found players to fit the requirement.
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Jan 21, 2021 12:08:58 GMT
This is being kind. It’s a clusterfeck of a squad, thing is we can’t just blame Garner as Tommy W is the man for recruiting and he’s now on the board ! Get it right, Tom W works in conjunction with the manager. He does not throw players at the manager. BG wanted to play 1 up front so it was decided that 3 strikers was enough. He finds players according to what the manager wants, he has stated he did not agree with all GC signings but found players to fit the requirement. Irrespective of that though the issue seems to be that quite a lot of the players he bought in don't seem to be very good.....
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,361
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 21, 2021 12:40:14 GMT
This is being kind. It’s a clusterfeck of a squad, thing is we can’t just blame Garner as Tommy W is the man for recruiting and he’s now on the board ! Get it right, Tom W works in conjunction with the manager. He does not throw players at the manager. BG wanted to play 1 up front so it was decided that 3 strikers was enough. He finds players according to what the manager wants, he has stated he did not agree with all GC signings but found players to fit the requirement. I could not give a definite answer but it would seem he did enough to get a place on the board, none of us really knows but he was certainly given a lot of media time
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,119
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Post by bloogas on Jan 21, 2021 15:15:19 GMT
Get it right, Tom W works in conjunction with the manager. He does not throw players at the manager. BG wanted to play 1 up front so it was decided that 3 strikers was enough. He finds players according to what the manager wants, he has stated he did not agree with all GC signings but found players to fit the requirement. I could not give a definite answer but it would seem he did enough to get a place on the board, none of us really knows but he was certainly given a lot of media time I thought I'd read he'd been taken on to the board. Or co-opted on to it. I'd also agree that surely TW recruits players he's asked to and I'd assume with the top man's approval.
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phil74
Joined: October 2018
Posts: 354
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Post by phil74 on Jan 21, 2021 15:31:30 GMT
This is being kind. It’s a clusterfeck of a squad, thing is we can’t just blame Garner as Tommy W is the man for recruiting and he’s now on the board ! Get it right, Tom W works in conjunction with the manager. He does not throw players at the manager. BG wanted to play 1 up front so it was decided that 3 strikers was enough. He finds players according to what the manager wants, he has stated he did not agree with all GC signings but found players to fit the requirement. I think we have a lot of good individual players. The problem was that Garner didn't assemble a balanced squad. Too few attackers. He also didn't have the tactical nous to get them to gel in games. We've seen that Tisdale does have that skill, as proved in the wins over Wimbledon, Plymouth and Blackpool - where the performances were also far more fluid and creative than we'd seen for a few years. Tisdale's current problem is injuries to key players Jakkola, Oztumer, Nicholson and Daly.
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Post by The Concept on Jan 23, 2021 12:10:13 GMT
Is there something written into Rovers constitution, that whoever the manager is he is only allowed to have one defender marking an opposition short corner?
Crewe was the first game that I haven't watched on i-Follow (or at least tried to watch on i-Follow), or haven't even listened to on Radio Bristol. So I only got to see the goals later.
In the Charlton game, every time Charlton had a corner we only had 1 player out to mark their 2 (causing me to continually shout at the screen!), yet when we we went to take a short corner Charlton put 2 players out to mark our 2 and snuff the move out.
Crewe's coaching staff must have been watching our Charlton game. Within the first few minutes they get a corner --> 2 players out to take a short-corner --> we put one player out to mark --> they take it short --> another of our players goes out to help --> but he leaves the player he was covering --> Crewe now have 3 against 2 and walk around us to score.
I bet they couldn't believe their luck (although not luck really).
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c4h10
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 476
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Post by c4h10 on Jan 23, 2021 12:39:45 GMT
Fair comment.
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