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Post by swissgas on Feb 10, 2021 23:51:50 GMT
This one, the last one, or the one before? it hasn't changed buy talent, build it up at our nice new training ground, play modern football, sell players on and develop the commercial side to fund incremental evolution it seems alright to me still. Not hugely different to some others, but modernisation for Rovers. It's just the execution... I always felt that Graham Coughlan left because he was fed up with the haphazard way in which the club is run and Ben Garner was appointed because he was available, cheap, desperate, compliant and because his Premier League experience titillated Wael. The new vision/philosophy was a dreamed up illusion and Gasheads fell for it. If it had truly been a planned strategy there would have been a lot more to it than a single managerial appointment. There is a case to be made for adopting a strategy to develop young players who haven’t made the grade at a higher level but it would involve a well thought through plan. Here are my ideas on how it could have been made to work with Ben Garner as the starting point : 1. Do the research to find out historically what type of players have been taken on by other clubs after failing at higher level and then significantly improved to a point where they are capable of returning to that higher level. There must be a pattern which will reveal which age groups or playing position meet the criteria and which defects are the most likely to be overcome. 2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown.
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Post by chelt_gas on Feb 11, 2021 2:23:52 GMT
Apart from the Ajax team of the early 90's I don't know of many teams that have consisted of predominantly young, raw talent that are then sold on for large profit. I've always thought you needed a team of mainly experienced players that can then help the younger players develop to then be sold.
There is also the risk that you acquire young players, train them for seasons before they just wait for their contract to expire before moving on. We then rely on compensation if they are under 24 or nothing if they are Tom Lockyer (he never owed Rovers anything once his contract ended). Aren't most contracts at lower league 2-year terms or less now and, besides, if a young player believed in his skill and ability why would he want to tie himself to a lower league club for a longer term anyway.
I think Rovers just need to have a policy of acquiring the best players (and management team) for the character of club we are. We have a 1 in 8 change of promotion each season, adjusted by available resource per club.
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Post by laughinggas on Feb 11, 2021 8:17:39 GMT
You often hear about the spirit in the changing room. The mix of characters that make it work or fail. This is across football. We had a changing room that got rid of Penney for example. Recently we had characters in their, daft as a brush Ellis, Ollie organiser of all sorts. Can imagine the input from Millwall and Mansel. Other examples exist.
Currently do we have any characters there? Is this part of building a team?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 8:56:27 GMT
it hasn't changed buy talent, build it up at our nice new training ground, play modern football, sell players on and develop the commercial side to fund incremental evolution it seems alright to me still. Not hugely different to some others, but modernisation for Rovers. It's just the execution... I always felt that Graham Coughlan left because he was fed up with the haphazard way in which the club is run and Ben Garner was appointed because he was available, cheap, desperate, compliant and because his Premier League experience titillated Wael. The new vision/philosophy was a dreamed up illusion and Gasheads fell for it. If it had truly been a planned strategy there would have been a lot more to it than a single managerial appointment. There is a case to be made for adopting a strategy to develop young players who haven’t made the grade at a higher level but it would involve a well thought through plan. Here are my ideas on how it could have been made to work with Ben Garner as the starting point : 1. Do the research to find out historically what type of players have been taken on by other clubs after failing at higher level and then significantly improved to a point where they are capable of returning to that higher level. There must be a pattern which will reveal which age groups or playing position meet the criteria and which defects are the most likely to be overcome. 2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown. Planning is a swear word at the club with preference being shown to total haphazard methods employed at the level of Downs League clubs Swiss. The lessons of desperately having to force Bath City to accept us at Twerton and subsequently the all too brief foray outside of the league have never been learned. The procession of characters that have ploughed into the club and lost enormous sums of money over the last twenty years with the previous Chairman resorting to effectively a wonga loan and the current incumbent at £ 18,000,000 in losses is testament to the absolute shambles the club returned too following the stiff roadmap laid down by Roy Redman and others. Widdrington is a total liability an absolute clown someone Dennis Dunford would never have allowed near the club. As things stand there is no future for Bristol Rovers apart from the inevitable collapse when fun boy Wael finally gets to the point that Daddy cuts off any further support for his Chelsea in Bristol fantasy. You and I saw the the construction of a viable club rise from the ashes of the Bradshaw/Flook disaster and the agony and fight it took to get there and frankly in vivid terms it’s all been pissed up the wall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 9:02:42 GMT
I always felt that Graham Coughlan left because he was fed up with the haphazard way in which the club is run and Ben Garner was appointed because he was available, cheap, desperate, compliant and because his Premier League experience titillated Wael. The new vision/philosophy was a dreamed up illusion and Gasheads fell for it. If it had truly been a planned strategy there would have been a lot more to it than a single managerial appointment. There is a case to be made for adopting a strategy to develop young players who haven’t made the grade at a higher level but it would involve a well thought through plan. Here are my ideas on how it could have been made to work with Ben Garner as the starting point : 1. Do the research to find out historically what type of players have been taken on by other clubs after failing at higher level and then significantly improved to a point where they are capable of returning to that higher level. There must be a pattern which will reveal which age groups or playing position meet the criteria and which defects are the most likely to be overcome. 2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown. Planning is a swear word at the club with preference being shown to total haphazard methods employed at the level of Downs League clubs Swiss. The lessons of desperately having to force Bath City to accept us at Twerton and subsequently the all too brief foray outside of the league have never been learned. The procession of characters that have ploughed into the club and lost enormous sums of money over the last twenty years with the previous Chairman resorting to effectively a wonga loan and the current incumbent at £ 18,000,000 in losses is testament to the absolute shambles the club returned too following the stiff roadmap laid down by Roy Redman and others. Widdrington is a total liability an absolute clown someone Dennis Dunford would never have allowed near the club. As things stand there is no future for Bristol Rovers apart from the inevitable collapse when fun boy Wael finally gets to the point that Daddy cuts off any further support for his Chelsea in Bristol fantasy. You and I saw the the construction of a viable club rise from the ashes of the Bradshaw/Flook disaster and the agony and fight it took to get there and frankly in vivid terms it’s all been pissed up the wall. You might have missed the news that Wael's father passed away last year Steptoe.
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on Feb 11, 2021 10:33:53 GMT
it hasn't changed buy talent, build it up at our nice new training ground, play modern football, sell players on and develop the commercial side to fund incremental evolution it seems alright to me still. Not hugely different to some others, but modernisation for Rovers. It's just the execution... 2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown. As ever, a lot of entirely reasonable points Swiss. I don't think its fair to say that Garner was left on his own - Jack Mesure, who he had worked with before was brought in and he had a fair amount of input into the training ground set up. I'm not sure why the sight of building work for new facilities would disrupt a professional footballer (although in the case of Rovers, the shock factor might be considerable). As for the rest - the access is easy, the parking is safe, the playing surfaces superb, as good as any at any level I would suggest, and there is a bright and airy gym on site (I have reservations about the internal finish, but that's another matter). Changing rooms and showers, plus food are available at the GFA set up in Almondsbury, 3-4 minutes away. The covid restrictions mean that the meeting/relaxing bits are all moot, until well after the clubhouse is finished in April/May. Which is along way of saying that if a change in training facilities disrupted a professional footballer that much, I don't think they have much of a future in the game. Unfortunately in a few cases, I think that may be true.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
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Post by eppinggas on Feb 11, 2021 10:40:01 GMT
it hasn't changed buy talent, build it up at our nice new training ground, play modern football, sell players on and develop the commercial side to fund incremental evolution it seems alright to me still. Not hugely different to some others, but modernisation for Rovers. It's just the execution... I always felt that Graham Coughlan left because he was fed up with the haphazard way in which the club is run and Ben Garner was appointed because he was available, cheap, desperate, compliant and because his Premier League experience titillated Wael. The new vision/philosophy was a dreamed up illusion and Gasheads fell for it. If it had truly been a planned strategy there would have been a lot more to it than a single managerial appointment. There is a case to be made for adopting a strategy to develop young players who haven’t made the grade at a higher level but it would involve a well thought through plan. Here are my ideas on how it could have been made to work with Ben Garner as the starting point : 1. Do the research to find out historically what type of players have been taken on by other clubs after failing at higher level and then significantly improved to a point where they are capable of returning to that higher level. There must be a pattern which will reveal which age groups or playing position meet the criteria and which defects are the most likely to be overcome. 2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown. Have you been watching "Moneyball" again swiss? Maybe Billy Beane fancies a new challenge? Rip it up and start again. "I hope to God you're not as dumb as you make out, I hope to God, I hope to God". I would have to say this brilliant lyric is not aimed at anyone in particular, because I know some people take criticism very much to heart. Regards, Angry of Epping.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 10:51:55 GMT
2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown. As ever, a lot of entirely reasonable points Swiss. I don't think its fair to say that Garner was left on his own - Jack Mesure, who he had worked with before was brought in and he had a fair amount of input into the training ground set up. I'm not sure why the sight of building work for new facilities would disrupt a professional footballer (although in the case of Rovers, the shock factor might be considerable). As for the rest - the access is easy, the parking is safe, the playing surfaces superb, as good as any at any level I would suggest, and there is a bright and airy gym on site (I have reservations about the internal finish, but that's another matter). Changing rooms and showers, plus food are available at the GFA set up in Almondsbury, 3-4 minutes away. The covid restrictions mean that the meeting/relaxing bits are all moot, until well after the clubhouse is finished in April/May. Which is along way of saying that if a change in training facilities disrupted a professional footballer that much, I don't think they have much of a future in the game. Unfortunately in a few cases, I think that may be true. Womble, any idea who the main contractors are on site?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 11:01:20 GMT
Apart from the Ajax team of the early 90's I don't know of many teams that have consisted of predominantly young, raw talent that are then sold on for large profit. I've always thought you needed a team of mainly experienced players that can then help the younger players develop to then be sold. There is also the risk that you acquire young players, train them for seasons before they just wait for their contract to expire before moving on. We then rely on compensation if they are under 24 or nothing if they are Tom Lockyer (he never owed Rovers anything once his contract ended). Aren't most contracts at lower league 2-year terms or less now and, besides, if a young player believed in his skill and ability why would he want to tie himself to a lower league club for a longer term anyway. I think Rovers just need to have a policy of acquiring the best players (and management team) for the character of club we are. We have a 1 in 8 change of promotion each season, adjusted by available resource per club. Exactly this. Quality players drag the best out of average players and also help inexperienced team mates develop. 2 great examples of this are Man U and Arse, see what happens to 'squad members' when they move on, the majority find that they struggle to maintain the form that they were producing when surrounded by a team stuffed full of international quality players. Whoever came up with the batsh1t crazy idea of getting rid of the 'ugly' players from our squad and replacing everybody in sight with 'prospects' needs a check up from the neck up.
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on Feb 11, 2021 11:05:32 GMT
As ever, a lot of entirely reasonable points Swiss. I don't think its fair to say that Garner was left on his own - Jack Mesure, who he had worked with before was brought in and he had a fair amount of input into the training ground set up. I'm not sure why the sight of building work for new facilities would disrupt a professional footballer (although in the case of Rovers, the shock factor might be considerable). As for the rest - the access is easy, the parking is safe, the playing surfaces superb, as good as any at any level I would suggest, and there is a bright and airy gym on site (I have reservations about the internal finish, but that's another matter). Changing rooms and showers, plus food are available at the GFA set up in Almondsbury, 3-4 minutes away. The covid restrictions mean that the meeting/relaxing bits are all moot, until well after the clubhouse is finished in April/May. Which is along way of saying that if a change in training facilities disrupted a professional footballer that much, I don't think they have much of a future in the game. Unfortunately in a few cases, I think that may be true. Womble, any idea who the main contractors are on site? As I'm sure you already know, MJ Abbott were the contractors for the pitches and the landscaping, I don't know who did the gym conversion and the clubhouse contractors have their name on the fencing, but it's too far away for me to see without the aid of binoculars. Best I can manage, don't know if you recognise the logo? Looks like K? Contracting Ltd to me.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2021 11:57:35 GMT
Womble, any idea who the main contractors are on site? As I'm sure you already know, MJ Abbott were the contractors for the pitches and the landscaping, I don't know who did the gym conversion and the clubhouse contractors have their name on the fencing, but it's too far away for me to see without the aid of binoculars. I'm 120 miles away from the site so I have no idea although I did used to live in Hortham Village next door. Is the clubhouse and gym completed then as you said did?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,353
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Post by kingswood Polak on Feb 11, 2021 12:08:41 GMT
Planning is a swear word at the club with preference being shown to total haphazard methods employed at the level of Downs League clubs Swiss. The lessons of desperately having to force Bath City to accept us at Twerton and subsequently the all too brief foray outside of the league have never been learned. The procession of characters that have ploughed into the club and lost enormous sums of money over the last twenty years with the previous Chairman resorting to effectively a wonga loan and the current incumbent at £ 18,000,000 in losses is testament to the absolute shambles the club returned too following the stiff roadmap laid down by Roy Redman and others. Widdrington is a total liability an absolute clown someone Dennis Dunford would never have allowed near the club. As things stand there is no future for Bristol Rovers apart from the inevitable collapse when fun boy Wael finally gets to the point that Daddy cuts off any further support for his Chelsea in Bristol fantasy. You and I saw the the construction of a viable club rise from the ashes of the Bradshaw/Flook disaster and the agony and fight it took to get there and frankly in vivid terms it’s all been pissed up the wall. You might have missed the news that Wael's father passed away last year Steptoe. Saved me from a PM. The more I see what’s going on the more I think of the words managed decline
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on Feb 11, 2021 12:13:38 GMT
As I'm sure you already know, MJ Abbott were the contractors for the pitches and the landscaping, I don't know who did the gym conversion and the clubhouse contractors have their name on the fencing, but it's too far away for me to see without the aid of binoculars. I'm 120 miles away from the site so I have no idea although I did used to live in Hortham Village next door. Is the clubhouse and gym completed then as you said did? Gym appears complete, I believe George Williams signing announcement pictures were taken inside it. The clubhouse is having the roof trusses installed as we speak. I've updated my previous post with the best picture I've got of the contractor's sign. If you want regular updates, I recommend Almondsbury Gas's twitter account. He lives in Hortham Village and frequently uploads pictures from his lunchtime walks.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
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Post by Angas on Feb 11, 2021 13:46:16 GMT
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on Feb 11, 2021 14:21:33 GMT
Well done Angas! Your eyesight is clearly better than mine
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Post by swissgas on Feb 11, 2021 15:25:41 GMT
2. Once you have identified which young players are likely to give you the best opportunities you need to work out what you need to do to attract them and what resources you will need to stand the best chance of developing them successfully. The most important resource will be the people in your team which is why leaving Ben Garner on his own was crazy. Depending on what your research throws up you would need to assemble a group of people with the requisite skills. For example, skill at finding the players, skill at persuading them and their agents that we are the right club, skill at coaching in specific areas to overcome technical deficiencies or inability to understand tactics, skill at improving physical fitness and skill in the psychological aspects of managing young athletes. 3. And to execute the plan you need physical and financial resources. What the young players coming in from Palace, Middlesbrough, Reading etc think of our two pitches, construction site and gyminabarn I just don’t know. As Gasheads we may smile about it but I have a feeling the collapse in morale, sudden Garner dismissal and awful performances may all stem from an ill conceived move to a part finished training ground last October. Players don’t care who owns the training ground all they want is easy access, safe parking, clean changing rooms, a good surface to play on, a well equipped bright and airy gym, warm showers and a decent place to meet, talk and relax. Rovers training facilities currently only have one of those. The other resource is financial and as with any plan you need to determine what you are trying to achieve, how much that will cost and the criteria needed to determine whether the plan is working. Your plan is to bring in young players at an acceptable cost, improve them to the point where they are first team material then further improving them to an exceptional level so they can be sold for a profit. And in the final analysis you need to determine what return on investment you class as success and what return would necessitate a review and change of strategy ? It may work it may not but surely it’s better to have a plan before you jump in otherwise you are almost certain to fail as the last fifteen months at Rovers has shown. As ever, a lot of entirely reasonable points Swiss. I don't think its fair to say that Garner was left on his own - Jack Mesure, who he had worked with before was brought in and he had a fair amount of input into the training ground set up. I'm not sure why the sight of building work for new facilities would disrupt a professional footballer (although in the case of Rovers, the shock factor might be considerable). As for the rest - the access is easy, the parking is safe, the playing surfaces superb, as good as any at any level I would suggest, and there is a bright and airy gym on site (I have reservations about the internal finish, but that's another matter). Changing rooms and showers, plus food are available at the GFA set up in Almondsbury, 3-4 minutes away. The covid restrictions mean that the meeting/relaxing bits are all moot, until well after the clubhouse is finished in April/May. Which is along way of saying that if a change in training facilities disrupted a professional footballer that much, I don't think they have much of a future in the game. Unfortunately in a few cases, I think that may be true. Jack Mesure came in eight months after Ben Garner was appointed and that can be explained if my interpretation of events is right. I think Ben knew he needed help and eventually managed to get agreement for Jack to be appointed in July. If you look at the results in October they weren’t at all bad and there is a case to be made that whilst training under a temporary arrangement at Coombe Dingle there was stability and we were making progress. When the move to Almondsbury was announced at the end of October I remember a quote from Ben Garner of something like “we’ll have to move our tents up there” . I don’t know if anyone else remembers that but I thought at the time that it was a sarcastic comment. So perhaps Ben thought moving from a stable environment to a half finished training ground was a bad decision, let his feelings be known and the inevitable followed ? I felt the same way as you when the George Williams interview revealed the interior of the Gym but the exterior and surroundings aren’t currently much better are they ? It will probably surprise many to learn that I am not a patron of establishments like David Lloyd Leisure or Fitness First but I have on occasions driven slowly past them ( they can’t touch you for it Angas !) so I know the kind of environment those businesses try to create and something approaching that, rather than what we currently have, is what professional athletes would be happier with. If a job is worth doing it is worth doing well but very rarely does that happen at Rovers. I have sent you a PM Womble.
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Angas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,068
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Post by Angas on Feb 11, 2021 15:31:03 GMT
Well done Angas! Your eyesight is clearly better than mine it was guesswork and google - and a big dollop of luck.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,516
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Post by harrybuckle on Feb 11, 2021 16:10:15 GMT
Breaking news Just spotted Prof Jonathan van Damme and Christopher Whitty brought into meet the Rovers board. Agenda item just two things The science of selecting a Football manager. Potential realistic candidates available and within budget.
A Sky journo managed to see the list written on the back of fat packet.
Johnson senior or junior Marvin Rees Frank Lampard junior Anthony Pulis senior Michael Flynn Michael Duff Michael McIntyre Michael Palin Jerry Gill Paul Buckle Lennie Lawrence Lawrence of Arabia Byron Anthony Thomas Widdrington Graham Coughlan Capt Albert Prince Cox Captain Scott Sean O Driscoll Benjamin Lennartsson
The meeting is expected to last two hours. Press conference on BBC Points West at 630pm
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Delsy
Joined: October 2019
Posts: 343
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Post by Delsy on Feb 11, 2021 17:00:31 GMT
DC .......Losing 34.95% GC........Losing 23.21% BG........Losing 50% PT.........Losing 57.14%
The Cock man wins, get him back in the building !
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womble
Arthur Cartlidge
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 300
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Post by womble on Feb 11, 2021 18:07:26 GMT
As ever, a lot of entirely reasonable points Swiss. I don't think its fair to say that Garner was left on his own - Jack Mesure, who he had worked with before was brought in and he had a fair amount of input into the training ground set up. I'm not sure why the sight of building work for new facilities would disrupt a professional footballer (although in the case of Rovers, the shock factor might be considerable). As for the rest - the access is easy, the parking is safe, the playing surfaces superb, as good as any at any level I would suggest, and there is a bright and airy gym on site (I have reservations about the internal finish, but that's another matter). Changing rooms and showers, plus food are available at the GFA set up in Almondsbury, 3-4 minutes away. The covid restrictions mean that the meeting/relaxing bits are all moot, until well after the clubhouse is finished in April/May. Which is along way of saying that if a change in training facilities disrupted a professional footballer that much, I don't think they have much of a future in the game. Unfortunately in a few cases, I think that may be true. Jack Mesure came in eight months after Ben Garner was appointed and that can be explained if my interpretation of events is right. I think Ben knew he needed help and eventually managed to get agreement for Jack to be appointed in July. If you look at the results in October they weren’t at all bad and there is a case to be made that whilst training under a temporary arrangement at Coombe Dingle there was stability and we were making progress. When the move to Almondsbury was announced at the end of October I remember a quote from Ben Garner of something like “we’ll have to move our tents up there” . I don’t know if anyone else remembers that but I thought at the time that it was a sarcastic comment. So perhaps Ben thought moving from a stable environment to a half finished training ground was a bad decision, let his feelings be known and the inevitable followed ? I felt the same way as you when the George Williams interview revealed the interior of the Gym but the exterior and surroundings aren’t currently much better are they ? It will probably surprise many to learn that I am not a patron of establishments like David Lloyd Leisure or Fitness First but I have on occasions driven slowly past them ( they can’t touch you for it Angas !) so I know the kind of environment those businesses try to create and something approaching that, rather than what we currently have, is what professional athletes would be happier with. If a job is worth doing it is worth doing well but very rarely does that happen at Rovers. I have sent you a PM Womble. They were using marquees at Coombe Dingle and Ben Garner knew the clubhouse building wasn’t finished, so I’m inclined to take the comment at face value, rather than him being sarcastic. As for the gym itself (and I share your limited experience in an interactive sense), it appears to be well equipped. If I was paying for it, I would not accept the apparent standard of finish. Inside, loose cabling where unobtrusive ducting is perfectly possible, some unbelievably sloppy paintwork and an apparently missing piece of interior cladding. The exterior has two areas, where for no obvious reason, there is no profiled metal cladding, despite that being the finish everywhere else on the building. The entrance is a roller shutter door, which is fine for moving equipment, but very energy inefficient and aesthetically clumsy, for people. Of course it may still be some way from completion, which I hope it is, because inside and out, there is no way I’d be signing it off if I was footing the bill.
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