eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
tempus horum
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 4,572
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Post by eppinggas on Jan 2, 2021 11:31:58 GMT
I think "Brexit and the whole wide world" has proved that 'most' the time people are capable of reasoned debate. To those that over-step the mark using condescension as a debating tool... well... you aren't changing anyone's mind. And you are in fact emboldening the perceived incorrect opinions. Which surely is the complete opposite of what you are trying to achieve? Anyway. Scotland. Does the predominantly "Remain" vote in Scotland look like the break up of the Union is now a more likely than not? (Scotland Leave 62% 1,661,191 votes, Scotland Remain 38% 1,018,322 votes). Current betting (Betfair, correct as of Jan 2nd 2021) Remain 8-11 Leave Evens
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oldie
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,402
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Post by oldie on Jan 2, 2021 12:48:15 GMT
Not sure you haven't got the vote number definitions the wrong way around? But anyway.
The Remain vote in Scotland I think was as much as a vote on the vision of what sort of society they want to live in, as much as anything else. Johnson and his cohort do not represent that, which in itself presents the SNP with an open goal. They may well score
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jan 2, 2021 13:20:45 GMT
How are they going to leave?
Whose currency will they use?
Do some research for the requirements to join the Euro, that isn't happening any time soon, and why should we allow a country that obviously isn't even close to being financially self sufficient to use our £.
Even if a second referendum is granted, which it won't be any time soon as the terms of the first one were quite clear, once in a generation, the SNP will lose, again.
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basel
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Post by basel on Jan 2, 2021 13:37:46 GMT
I think Scotland will stay in the UK.
Chances are there won't even be another referendum.2014 being "once in a generation". A clear majority voted to stay in our UK that year.
Do the EU want another country to look after?
Would Scots accept the €?
So much true integration between Scots,the other 3 home countries and all that have joined us.I don't think there is the will to 'lose' that.Over 300 years of Union,sharing our British archipelago.
I think Brexit Britain will be an exciting success ,whilst the EU are heading for stormy weather.Maybe the Italians next,Italex?Scots will see this.
Westminster will see Scotland okay £ and Scots will appreciate this.
SNP activists - like last time - will be rude,abusive and aggressive.Not good for votes.
Braveheart is now known to be about historically accurate as Alan Warboys hattrick in the 66 world Cup Final.No beating of that particular drum.
Plenty of Alex Salmond footage from 2013/14 ought to help the Union cause.
Oh and reminders of how the SNP,during the blitz WWII,told England ' it's your war'.
Etc.
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jan 2, 2021 13:55:28 GMT
I think Scotland will stay in the UK. Chances are there won't even be another referendum.2014 being "once in a generation". A clear majority voted to stay in our UK that year. Do the EU want another country to look after? Would Scots accept the €?So much true integration between Scots,the other 3 home countries and all that have joined us.I don't think there is the will to 'lose' that.Over 300 years of Union,sharing our British archipelago. I think Brexit Britain will be an exciting success ,whilst the EU are heading for stormy weather.Maybe the Italians next,Italex?Scots will see this. Westminster will see Scotland okay £ and Scots will appreciate this. SNP activists - like last time - will be rude,abusive and aggressive.Not good for votes. Braveheart is now known to be about historically accurate as Alan Warboys hattrick in the 66 world Cup Final.No beating of that particular drum. Plenty of Alex Salmond footage from 2013/14 ought to help the Union cause. Oh and reminders of how the SNP,during the blitz WWII,told England ' it's your war'. Etc. Under the existing rules Bas, the Euro can't accept Scotland, it's not even close to meeting the requirements. They would pay a heavy price for re-joining the EU. Any move to do so would expose exactly what the SNP actually is, anti English first and foremost, pro Scottish a distant second.
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basel
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Post by basel on Jan 2, 2021 14:09:13 GMT
I think Scotland will stay in the UK. Chances are there won't even be another referendum.2014 being "once in a generation". A clear majority voted to stay in our UK that year. Do the EU want another country to look after? Would Scots accept the €?So much true integration between Scots,the other 3 home countries and all that have joined us.I don't think there is the will to 'lose' that.Over 300 years of Union,sharing our British archipelago. I think Brexit Britain will be an exciting success ,whilst the EU are heading for stormy weather.Maybe the Italians next,Italex?Scots will see this. Westminster will see Scotland okay £ and Scots will appreciate this. SNP activists - like last time - will be rude,abusive and aggressive.Not good for votes. Braveheart is now known to be about historically accurate as Alan Warboys hattrick in the 66 world Cup Final.No beating of that particular drum. Plenty of Alex Salmond footage from 2013/14 ought to help the Union cause. Oh and reminders of how the SNP,during the blitz WWII,told England ' it's your war'. Etc. Under the existing rules Bas, the Euro can't accept Scotland, it's not even close to meeting the requirements. They would pay a heavy price for re-joining the EU. Any move to do so would expose exactly what the SNP actually is, anti English first and foremost, pro Scottish a distant second. That's it then TWD and thanks.Unless something dramatic happens. Then there's the Spanish vote to allow Scotland to join. Remainer gut wrenching disappointment and difficulty in accepting defeat,has spread over to the Scotland 'debate'. I think it'll calm down.
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jan 2, 2021 14:46:52 GMT
Under the existing rules Bas, the Euro can't accept Scotland, it's not even close to meeting the requirements. They would pay a heavy price for re-joining the EU. Any move to do so would expose exactly what the SNP actually is, anti English first and foremost, pro Scottish a distant second. That's it then TWD and thanks.Unless something dramatic happens. Then there's the Spanish vote to allow Scotland to join. Remainer gut wrenching disappointment and difficulty in accepting defeat,has spread over to the Scotland 'debate'. I think it'll calm down. To add some detail Bas, the bonkers SNP's position last I heard was to re-join the EU but with Sterling as their currency. Problems that I remember off the top of my head are: They are proposing to use the currency of a country that has a stated policy of divergence from the EU. EU has it's own currency. Scotland's own central bank would not be independent as defined by the EU and as demanded by EU rules and would not have power to affect policies such as altering interest rates. Scotland's central bank, critically, would not be lender of last resort. As long as they continued to use the £ Scotland's own central bank would not have powers that are requirements for EU membership, such as the ability to print money. Then we could look at stability requirements, those include budget deficits. The requirement for joining the EU is that it must be below 3% of GDP, even before Covid struck Scotland's was around 9% of GDP. Of course, the SNP could hit the people with the Mother of all public spending cuts policies, otherwise they'll have to do something miraculous with their economy to meet membership requirements. SNP are off their heads and it takes 1 minute of research to expose their policies.
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oldie
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,402
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Post by oldie on Jan 2, 2021 14:54:01 GMT
Its funny isnt it. The economic case for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is nonsensical. The likelihood of them joining the EU, as has been accurately pointed out, nigh impossible.
But the people, it seems, want to do it, leave the UK. Makes no sense does it? But its their democratic right isnt it? If the majority vote for it? Where have we heard that argument before?
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basel
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Post by basel on Jan 2, 2021 14:57:53 GMT
Its funny isnt it. The economic case for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is nonsensical. The likelihood of them joining the EU, as has been accurately pointed out, nigh impossible. But the people, it seems, want to do it, leave the UK. Makes no sense does it? But its their democratic right isnt it? If the majority vote for it? Where have we heard that argument before? 2014 decided this one Oldie. Referendum results must be respected. Etc.
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oldie
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,402
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Post by oldie on Jan 2, 2021 14:59:23 GMT
Its funny isnt it. The economic case for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is nonsensical. The likelihood of them joining the EU, as has been accurately pointed out, nigh impossible. But the people, it seems, want to do it, leave the UK. Makes no sense does it? But its their democratic right isnt it? If the majority vote for it? Where have we heard that argument before? 2014 decided this one Oldie. Referendum results must be respected. Etc. Constitutionally incorrect
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basel
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Post by basel on Jan 2, 2021 15:06:47 GMT
2014 decided this one Oldie. Referendum results must be respected. Etc. Constitutionally incorrect As in Parliament is sovereign?
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jan 2, 2021 15:10:36 GMT
Sure, you can ignore the results of a binary referendum, talk garbage for 4 years, then put it back to the people again via a general election, and you get the same result, only now you've made your electorate quite angry.
Just remind me what happened to the Liberals at the last election with their policy of overturning the referendum result?
No point talking about any potential harm that may be caused in leaving the EU when your side of the argument have caused massive harm via uncertainty to the markets and business for literally years.
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oldie
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,402
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Post by oldie on Jan 2, 2021 17:07:26 GMT
Constitutionally incorrect As in Parliament is sovereign? Yep. Said it before Parliament can overturn any law at any time, with mandate given to them by the electorate. Nothing is fixed.
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oldie
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,402
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Post by oldie on Jan 2, 2021 17:08:57 GMT
Sure, you can ignore the results of a binary referendum, talk garbage for 4 years, then put it back to the people again via a general election, and you get the same result, only now you've made your electorate quite angry. Just remind me what happened to the Liberals at the last election with their policy of overturning the referendum result? No point talking about any potential harm that may be caused in leaving the EU when your side of the argument have caused massive harm via uncertainty to the markets and business for literally years. ERG anyone? 😂😂😂
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Jan 2, 2021 17:22:40 GMT
Leave. I'd give anything to be free from the shackles of Little Britain and the corrupt and evil ERG cult our country is currently run by and would jump at the chance if I were in their shoes. Scotland would find a way to overcome all the difficulties leaving the UK would bring on their way to rejoining the EU. Hopefully it will allow other bits or England that want to be in the EU a way to also become Scottish.
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Jan 2, 2021 17:29:36 GMT
Its funny isnt it. The economic case for Scotland leaving the United Kingdom is nonsensical. The likelihood of them joining the EU, as has been accurately pointed out, nigh impossible. But the people, it seems, want to do it, leave the UK. Makes no sense does it? But its their democratic right isnt it? If the majority vote for it? Where have we heard that argument before? 2014 decided this one Oldie. Referendum results must be respected. Etc. Who says? As Oldie has said previously the Scottish Government is democratically elected and has the right to decide that the 2014 referendum has been invalidated by the lies told by the Nasty party, and that they seek the backing of the Scottish population for another go at this
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Jan 2, 2021 17:34:26 GMT
Sure, you can ignore the results of a binary referendum, talk garbage for 4 years, then put it back to the people again via a general election, and you get the same result, only now you've made your electorate quite angry. Just remind me what happened to the Liberals at the last election with their policy of overturning the referendum result? No point talking about any potential harm that may be caused in leaving the EU when your side of the argument have caused massive harm via uncertainty to the markets and business for literally years.What?  ? It's those who have campaigned for and then monumentally fed up this monumentally stupid act of self harm who have created all the uncertainty. If Cameron had had a spine and had refused to call the referendum, then we'd have had as much certainty as is possible in our rightful place as full members of the EU. Time Brexit supporters owned the chaos they have caused
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jan 2, 2021 17:35:53 GMT
Sure, you can ignore the results of a binary referendum, talk garbage for 4 years, then put it back to the people again via a general election, and you get the same result, only now you've made your electorate quite angry. Just remind me what happened to the Liberals at the last election with their policy of overturning the referendum result? No point talking about any potential harm that may be caused in leaving the EU when your side of the argument have caused massive harm via uncertainty to the markets and business for literally years. ERG anyone? 😂😂😂 More deflection. Just for once can't you act like an adult and accept that you and your side of the debate have caused harm to trust in our democratic process and our economy by stubbornly refusing to accept the consequences of not being able to persuade 50+% of those who voted of the validity of your argument. But I'm not holding my breath, you don't understand humility. In fact, Just keep going, I don't think you even understand how silly you are making yourself look. You just harm yourself with the rubbish you post, why should I care, all I do is point out why it's mostly garbage.
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jan 2, 2021 17:39:29 GMT
Sure, you can ignore the results of a binary referendum, talk garbage for 4 years, then put it back to the people again via a general election, and you get the same result, only now you've made your electorate quite angry. Just remind me what happened to the Liberals at the last election with their policy of overturning the referendum result? No point talking about any potential harm that may be caused in leaving the EU when your side of the argument have caused massive harm via uncertainty to the markets and business for literally years.What?  ? It's those who have campaigned for and then monumentally fed up this monumentally stupid act of self harm who have created all the uncertainty. If Cameron had had a spine and had refused to call the referendum, then we'd have had as much certainty as is possible in our rightful place as full members of the EU. Time Brexit supporters owned the chaos they have caused You can't even debate with that when your starting point is that it's our 'rightful place' to be within an institution that we entered into without reference to the electorate. I'll pop you in the pot with Oldie as another who refuses to 'own' the harm inflicted in terms of trust in our democracy and damage done to our economy by 4 years of uncertainty. Anyway, as you are here, care to comment on where the billions we pumped in to Erasmus may have vanished to? And whether being able to provide global opportunities for 35,000 students rather than 10,000, with those 10,000 all being tied to study within other EU member states, and being able to do that whilst providing support of up to £10,000 as opposed to the previous £3500, yet still at a fraction of the total cost, is part of the 'chaos' that I have to own?
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Jan 2, 2021 17:50:52 GMT
More deflection. Just for once can't you act like an adult and accept that you and your side of the debate have caused harm to trust in our democratic process and our economy by stubbornly refusing to accept the consequences of not being able to persuade 50+% of those who voted of the validity of your argument. But I'm not holding my breath, you don't understand humility. In fact, Just keep going, I don't think you even understand how silly you are making yourself look. You just harm yourself with the rubbish you post, why should I care, all I do is point out why it's mostly garbage. I could hardly believe those in positions of power and in the media that ignored our democracy and did everything possible to stop the victory of the 52%. I thought them absolutely disgusting.
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