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Post by Nobbygas on Feb 18, 2021 20:29:13 GMT
It is stretching things a bit far to suggest she was democratically elected. She needed 374 votes to win. She got 383, with 327 voting against her, 22 abstaining and one vote invalid. The main detail to emerge from that is that she was the only candidate on the ballot paper. She scrapped home despite there being not being a single person standing against her. Normally you would only see one person on a ballot paper in either a Communist State or a Dictatorship. The 68% drop in Exports was just for a limited period in Jan. The authorities in Dover are reporting that trade is running at about 90% of normal levels, with the drop being blamed on Covid more than anything. Lord Frost today appointed to a cabinet level position to oversee the UK’s future relationship with the EU after overseeing the disastrous negotiations with the EU. 0 accountability to the electorate, appointed by his chums yet it’s the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels we should worry about  No different to Mandleson with Labour. At least in the UK if the public are not happy with the political rulers, we can vote them out. There is no chance of that happening in the EU with the appointed Commissioners. The EU Parliament is just window dressing. |
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 18, 2021 22:02:23 GMT
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,715 
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Post by basel on Feb 19, 2021 4:20:27 GMT
It needs sorting out agreed TWD. Too much cheating democracy. |
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 21, 2021 13:44:05 GMT
Back to the EU itself, there was a picture of some exporter with a huge wad of forms for moving his product from here to Europe in the news yesterday, probably staged and I doubt very much that all 70 pages related directly to that specific shipment, but what it did demonstrate is what I've always said, the EU is a protectionist racket, set up to deny consumers access to normal free market conditions. So glad we are slowly but surely freeing ourselves from it's poisonous and choking grasp. How anybody can ever ask what harm any EU policy has ever done to any citizen and expect to be taken seriously is totally beyond me. You will be delighted to know that one of those heroes has denounced you as an overt racist. He proclaimed you’re user name proved you are extreme right wing, and that your emoji is clearly a ‘Klu Klux Klan’ symbol, complete with burning torch! Just scrolling back through this thread, don't know why I'm even bothering, but a final point about this user name. When Bowie adopted this persona he was living in America, he spent a lot of time living at the home of his lead guitarist, Carlos Alomar, who is from Puerto Rico, and black. And in my opinion is wrongly always left off of the list of all time top 10 guitarists. So congratulations Yattongas, you've made a complete fool of yourself here. Don't worry, I don't expect an apology, people as unpleasant as you seem to think that you are above that level of civility. |
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towngas
Joined: February 2021
Posts: 149
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Post by towngas on Feb 21, 2021 23:38:16 GMT
You will be delighted to know that one of those heroes has denounced you as an overt racist. He proclaimed you’re user name proved you are extreme right wing, and that your emoji is clearly a ‘Klu Klux Klan’ symbol, complete with burning torch! Just scrolling back through this thread, don't know why I'm even bothering, but a final point about this user name. When Bowie adopted this persona he was living in America, he spent a lot of time living at the home of his lead guitarist, Carlos Alomar, who is from Puerto Rico, and black. And in my opinion is wrongly always left off of the list of all time top 10 guitarists. So congratulations Yattongas, you've made a complete fool of yourself here. Don't worry, I don't expect an apology, people as unpleasant as you seem to think that you are above that level of civility. There are some absolute belters on the political threads over there. This bloke is one of the beltiest, but he is aided and abetted with some distinction by several of the mods. Wokery and cancel culture, together with a hefty dollop of bullying is the norm I'm,afraid. |
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,715
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Post by basel on Mar 8, 2021 18:01:04 GMT
US have suspended tariffs on trade with UK,now we're rid of EU membership.
They apparently enjoy our whiskey and clotted cream eg.
Tariffs remain for the EU.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 926
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Post by Cheshiregas on Mar 9, 2021 13:46:26 GMT
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 9, 2021 14:14:36 GMT
My search result wasn't on the 10th page of results, it popped up, so I quoted it. I think that the Conservative 'push' towards postal balloting is to counter what their opponents are doing. I'm familiar with the reasons put forward for this type of ballot favouring one side of the political divide, but it's hard to accept those reasons as valid. My suspicion is that the further you dig, the more fraud would be unearthed. Of course, it's entirely possible now that those right of centre are pushing this system that cases of fraud from that side will increase and balance out what the left have been doing for years, but is that how we want our voting conducted? |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 926
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Post by Cheshiregas on Mar 9, 2021 14:45:31 GMT
My search result wasn't on the 10th page of results, it popped up, so I quoted it. I think that the Conservative 'push' towards postal balloting is to counter what their opponents are doing. I'm familiar with the reasons put forward for this type of ballot favouring one side of the political divide, but it's hard to accept those reasons as valid. My suspicion is that the further you dig, the more fraud would be unearthed. Of course, it's entirely possible now that those right of centre are pushing this system that cases of fraud from that side will increase and balance out what the left have been doing for years, but is that how we want our voting conducted? I meant date wise not search wise. Do you not believe the research by the Electoral Commission that postal voter fraud is low? |
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 9, 2021 14:50:47 GMT
My search result wasn't on the 10th page of results, it popped up, so I quoted it. I think that the Conservative 'push' towards postal balloting is to counter what their opponents are doing. I'm familiar with the reasons put forward for this type of ballot favouring one side of the political divide, but it's hard to accept those reasons as valid. My suspicion is that the further you dig, the more fraud would be unearthed. Of course, it's entirely possible now that those right of centre are pushing this system that cases of fraud from that side will increase and balance out what the left have been doing for years, but is that how we want our voting conducted? I meant date wise not search wise. Do you not believe the research by the Electoral Commission that postal voter fraud is low? I don't know. What was the scope of their investigation and how are we defining 'low'? If you don't mind, I'll answer this with a question, aimed at both of us. What should we regard as an acceptable level of fraud. Does it only matter when it sways the outcome in a constituency, or should we aim to stamp it out entirely? |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 926
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Post by Cheshiregas on Mar 9, 2021 15:02:56 GMT
I meant date wise not search wise. Do you not believe the research by the Electoral Commission that postal voter fraud is low? I don't know. What was the scope of their investigation and how are we defining 'low'? If you don't mind, I'll answer this with a question, aimed at both of us. What should we regard as an acceptable level of fraud. Does it only matter when it sways the outcome in a constituency, or should we aim to stamp it out entirely? Personally no level of fraud, especially if committed by elected officials at any level, whatever spectrum of politics, is acceptable. Using the excuse that one side or the other is doing it so we will 'balance it out' is unacceptable especially when it is a Government minister intimating it. IF and it's a big if you blieve it's a issue (and even in the USA it isn't in spite of Trump's rhetoric) the difficulty you have is stopping it. It is well known in democratic societies that denial of postal voting rights is a disenfranchisement of those unable to vote in person. However the proposal to insist on photo ID (i.e. driving licence or passport), especially when we do not have a photo ID card system in this country will mean disenfranchising those who don't drive and don't have a passport which many can't afford and why should they if they can't afford to travel. Nothing like rubbing their noses in it! At the end of the day it comes down to trust. And if the last 5 years has shown anything it's you can't believe a single word politicians utter nor can you believe that their intentions are truthful and honourable. |
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 926
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Post by Cheshiregas on Mar 9, 2021 15:11:13 GMT
The report states that ~
'We consulted a range of people and organisations, including elected representatives, political parties, professionals working in the elections field, the police and prosecuting authorities, academics, voluntary organisations and think tanks. We also conducted research with, and sought views from, members of the public, and analysed police data on cases of alleged electoral fraud.'
and that
'Electoral fraud is not widespread across the UK and reports of significant fraud are focused in specific places in England, concentrated in a small number of local authority areas. We do not believe it is likely that fraud has been attempted in more than a handful of wards in any particular local authority area. '
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 9, 2021 15:19:51 GMT
The report states that ~ 'We consulted a range of people and organisations, including elected representatives, political parties, professionals working in the elections field, the police and prosecuting authorities, academics, voluntary organisations and think tanks. We also conducted research with, and sought views from, members of the public, and analysed police data on cases of alleged electoral fraud.' and that 'Electoral fraud is not widespread across the UK and reports of significant fraud are focused in specific places in England, concentrated in a small number of local authority areas. We do not believe it is likely that fraud has been attempted in more than a handful of wards in any particular local authority area. ' You lost me when it said that they had consulted with the Police. If you have a couple of hours spare take a look at YouTube channel 'CrimeBodge'. He's just a normal bloke driven to where he is today by his experiences interacting with Police and in attempting to hold them to account when they do wrong. But I have to say, what you quote there almost sounds like an acceptance that postal vote fraud is kind of OK and their definition of 'widespread' is more a geographical reference rather than a comment on whether it has affected the outcome of votes. |
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Post by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 9, 2021 15:25:31 GMT
I don't know. What was the scope of their investigation and how are we defining 'low'? If you don't mind, I'll answer this with a question, aimed at both of us. What should we regard as an acceptable level of fraud. Does it only matter when it sways the outcome in a constituency, or should we aim to stamp it out entirely? Personally no level of fraud, especially if committed by elected officials at any level, whatever spectrum of politics, is acceptable. Using the excuse that one side or the other is doing it so we will 'balance it out' is unacceptable especially when it is a Government minister intimating it. IF and it's a big if you blieve it's a issue (and even in the USA it isn't in spite of Trump's rhetoric) the difficulty you have is stopping it. It is well known in democratic societies that denial of postal voting rights is a disenfranchisement of those unable to vote in person. However the proposal to insist on photo ID (i.e. driving licence or passport), especially when we do not have a photo ID card system in this country will mean disenfranchising those who don't drive and don't have a passport which many can't afford and why should they if they can't afford to travel. Nothing like rubbing their noses in it! At the end of the day it comes down to trust. And if the last 5 years has shown anything it's you can't believe a single word politicians utter nor can you believe that their intentions are truthful and honourable. I'm still not convinced either way about America. There were huge swings, unheard of swings, caused by postal voting. Yes I know some things were investigated, but sometimes things just don't 'feel' right, and this is one of those occasions. Did Trump handle it well, of course not, and he was repeating the exact same things just last week. His job over the next 4 years, if he believes what he's saying, is firstly to convince the American people that they've made the wrong choice, to hold Biden to account, and to identify what it is that's wrong with the postal voting system and do everything in his power to get it corrected. What's not his job is to act like a petulant child when an agreed system doesn't throw up the result he was expecting. |
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