|
Post by outwoodgas on Nov 25, 2020 10:50:48 GMT
Totally agree with the OP. Recruitment seemed to be going well and made sense up until the point we signed Tutonda - what was the point of that when we already had Leahy on the books and Kelly has been re-signed? The decision to then add Kolki to the left back / left wing-back collection was bizarre. When we took McCormick on loan I wondered why we were bringing in a youngster we would not be able to sell on. Oztumer then looked like a bit of a wild-card but with those two in the building what was the point of going for Liddle - yet another midfielder? All the time we were crying out for another striker but didn't get one! To cap it all I seem to remember Garner said he wanted to work with a small squad, yet we've got 27 in the first team squad, only 3 of whom are strikers plus half-a-dozen good youngsters. As Syg says it can't all be put on Garner, unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by hungerfordgas on Nov 25, 2020 11:24:18 GMT
Totally agree with the OP. Recruitment seemed to be going well and made sense up until the point we signed Tutonda - what was the point of that when we already had Leahy on the books and Kelly has been re-signed? The decision to then add Kolki to the left back / left wing-back collection was bizarre. When we took McCormick on loan I wondered why we were bringing in a youngster we would not be able to sell on. Oztumer then looked like a bit of a wild-card but with those two in the building what was the point of going for Liddle - yet another midfielder? All the time we were crying out for another striker but didn't get one! To cap it all I seem to remember Garner said he wanted to work with a small squad, yet we've got 27 in the first team squad, only 3 of whom are strikers plus half-a-dozen good youngsters. As Syg says it can't all be put on Garner, unfortunately.My very thoughts when listening to Tommy's interview last week!
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Nov 25, 2020 12:08:25 GMT
I think you very much can pin most of the blame here on Garner although there might be something to be said for the club having a stronger hand than it has done - Swiss 'who manages the manager?' point stands here.
My problem is that for the last 6 months I've been coming on here and reading stuff from people claiming that we had a assembled a 'talented' squad. There seemed real excitement about our recruitment. In the 10 games or so I've watched this looks like the emperors new clothes. I still see people claiming that we have a lot of 'talent'. What talent?
What I see is an unbalanced squad that doesn't compliment itself at all. A side where the midfield is set-up to play a kind of quick move passing game but has little speed, movement or width up front to connect with and no ball playing centre backs to make up ground and support. The 3 component parts of our side (defense, midfield and forwards) look like they have been cobbled together from totally different sides. There's no coherence and that is absolutely Garner's fault because that's the number 1 thing a manager should be focused on in recuitment - ie. how do all of these players create a coherent team?
I think we have signed an army of skilled diddy-men who can look flashy on the ball in space but are bullied off it far too easily and lack the neccesary attributes to create space out of traffic (always crucial in League 1) and dynamic attitude in key areas. They look good and play well in the bits of the pitch where it doesn't matter and make next to no impact where it does. There is no dynamism to any of our players (with the possible exception of Hanlon and Nicholson at times). They want 10 yards of space to play in and 30 seconds to do it and if they don't have it then they can't do it. That is not 'talent'! Talent is being able to win the ball and then do something productive with it. It's being able to find your man or draw a free kick when 2 or 3 opponents are right on you. It's being able to make 10 yards of space when the opposition are sat back. It's making quick, decisive decisions that open up space for others and get you on the front foot. It's constantly being able to find a route to goal. It is not doing a few nice one-twos and flashy flicks 45 yards out from goal.....
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 12:26:01 GMT
|
|
syg
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,005
|
Shambles.
Nov 25, 2020 13:14:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by syg on Nov 25, 2020 13:14:15 GMT
I am not saying I disagree, only in this modern game what is a striker? In Fantasy football terms aubo and Salah for example are midfielders. In old days strikers are your main goal scorers, you play 2 every week, with 2 more on bench. If we had 6 strikers how much game time would 5 of them get? One up front ploughing a lonely furrow in a 3 4 3 is how Ben sent them out the first few games of season. It was interesting to see barrel back. We haven’t seen much of him, but what we have seen he could be a creative influence. Was he ticked off by bench as well as commentator for taking a shot? Our performance was crying out for more shots! So I see your lack of striker discussion, I put it through siv of modern football, come to the conclusion who has been supporting hanlon in goal scoring? Take Liverpool as benchmark, firmino isn’t the one to get all the goals, whose our mane and Mo? It’s those positions where we have misfired. Rodman barrel, JML, Nicholson, Mcormack. [br I dont watch the prem so ive no idea how they play these days, all attacking midfields, compression footie, a hold up player, i dont know. But a striker =somebody who strikes the ball into the net, or wide, or over, or out the ground, and however i look at that we didnt have one yesterday.
|
|
TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by TaiwanGas on Nov 25, 2020 13:50:15 GMT
I think you very much can pin most of the blame here on Garner although there might be something to be said for the club having a stronger hand than it has done - Swiss 'who manages the manager?' point stands here.
My problem is that for the last 6 months I've been coming on here and reading stuff from people claiming that we had a assembled a 'talented' squad. There seemed real excitement about our recruitment. In the 10 games or so I've watched this looks like the emperors new clothes. I still see people claiming that we have a lot of 'talent'. What talent?
What I see is an unbalanced squad that doesn't compliment itself at all. A side where the midfield is set-up to play a kind of quick move passing game but has little speed, movement or width up front to connect with and no ball playing centre backs to make up ground and support. The 3 component parts of our side (defense, midfield and forwards) look like they have been cobbled together from totally different sides. There's no coherence and that is absolutely Garner's fault because that's the number 1 thing a manager should be focused on in recuitment - ie. how do all of these players create a coherent team?
I think we have signed an army of skilled diddy-men who can look flashy on the ball in space but are bullied off it far too easily and lack the neccesary attributes to create space out of traffic (always crucial in League 1) and dynamic attitude in key areas. They look good and play well in the bits of the pitch where it doesn't matter and make next to no impact where it does. There is no dynamism to any of our players (with the possible exception of Hanlon and Nicholson at times). They want 10 yards of space to play in and 30 seconds to do it and if they don't have it then they can't do it. That is not 'talent'! Talent is being able to win the ball and then do something productive with it. It's being able to find your man or draw a free kick when 2 or 3 opponents are right on you. It's being able to make 10 yards of space when the opposition are sat back. It's making quick, decisive decisions that open up space for others and get you on the front foot. It's constantly being able to find a route to goal. It is not doing a few nice one-twos and flashy flicks 45 yards out from goal.....
A very, very good post imo Irish, nail on the head!, the current team probably looks good on the training pitch, but that is where it stays. We appear very lightweight and easily bullied off the ball and struggle to find the route to goal, a 35 year old Cureton would have put Wigan to the sword within the first 15mins.
|
|
|
Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Nov 25, 2020 14:17:05 GMT
Totally agree with the OP. Recruitment seemed to be going well and made sense up until the point we signed Tutonda - what was the point of that when we already had Leahy on the books and Kelly has been re-signed? The decision to then add Kolki to the left back / left wing-back collection was bizarre. When we took McCormick on loan I wondered why we were bringing in a youngster we would not be able to sell on. Oztumer then looked like a bit of a wild-card but with those two in the building what was the point of going for Liddle - yet another midfielder? All the time we were crying out for another striker but didn't get one! To cap it all I seem to remember Garner said he wanted to work with a small squad, yet we've got 27 in the first team squad, only 3 of whom are strikers plus half-a-dozen good youngsters. As Syg says it can't all be put on Garner, unfortunately.My very thoughts when listening to Tommy's interview last week! I've racked me brains but simply can't recall any long-lasting DoF. It's a thanks for all you've done now disappear behind the wallpaper kind of role from what I can make out. Him being made interim when there are adequate people among the coaching staff was an odd one too.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 14:25:00 GMT
Whine, winge, bleat, snivel. FFS does anyone here actually support the club?. We do nothing but find fault here, what about Nicholson’s run that got him into that scoring position?. These are for the most part young kids, we are at the start of rebuilding the club. I for one am extremely impressed by Paul Tisdale and now I’ve heard him speak Tommy Widdrington as well. it seems to me that unless Ollie or Daryll are managing the side everyone else is a tosser, well they ain’t coming back, get over it and let’s see some of the spirit of Twerton back in this club, we are in another hole, s**t happens it’s all part of the cycles of sport, look for the good as little as that may currently be and get behind the whole club build these players up, make them part of the Gas, these people can be destroyed far quicker than built. There is a fight on here, whose corner are we in?.
|
|
laughinggas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,644
Member is Online
|
Post by laughinggas on Nov 25, 2020 14:51:28 GMT
My very thoughts when listening to Tommy's interview last week! I've racked me brains but simply can't recall any long-lasting DoF. It's a thanks for all you've done now disappear behind the wallpaper kind of role from what I can make out. Him being made interim when there are adequate people among the coaching staff was an odd one too. Well if one of the coaches was appointed and they won 3 games then big pressure to give them the job. So given we said experienced manager was the requirement why introduce the opportunity for that pressure. Thought it made sense to appoint someone who did not want the job.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Shambles.
Nov 25, 2020 15:40:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 15:40:42 GMT
My very thoughts when listening to Tommy's interview last week! I've racked me brains but simply can't recall any long-lasting DoF. It's a thanks for all you've done now disappear behind the wallpaper kind of role from what I can make out. Him being made interim when there are adequate people among the coaching staff was an odd one too. I think it could be quite an important role at this club. Is Widdrington the right man to fulfill it? Not for my money. He did well with JCH, fair play, but what happened to all the players he signed for Coughlan? All playing in the league below apart from JCH. The current lot aren’t looking likely to do much better either and the less said about Timmy Abraham the better. Our scouting work doesn’t seem to be good enough at the moment. It needs to be more accurate if we’re to both survive at league one level AND develop young players to sell on. For that reason I think a DOF is important to this club, BUT I think we need to put a lot of effort into getting the right man and improving our scouting network if we want to be successful in terms of developing youth
|
|
|
Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Nov 25, 2020 15:42:43 GMT
I've racked me brains but simply can't recall any long-lasting DoF. It's a thanks for all you've done now disappear behind the wallpaper kind of role from what I can make out. Him being made interim when there are adequate people among the coaching staff was an odd one too. Well if one of the coaches was appointed and they won 3 games then big pressure to give them the job. So given we said experienced manager was the requirement why introduce the opportunity for that pressure. Thought it made sense to appoint someone who did not want the job. I guess so, but DoF for Tisdale? FWIW, I thought Nicholson had a great game. He chased everything, won tackles and got into great scoring positions through sheer willpower. He's not a striker and plenty of those have messed up easier chances, e.g. Werner, lol. I love the ones that fly over the bar from a foot out. It looks like our Sam tried to stroke it into the far corner with the side of his foot and his toes got in the way and it swerved the other way. A bit more composure and it had flown in. We even played it out from the back several times when there was no danger - there was no danger for most of the game - and along the ground in some good passages of play. I hope that continues but it's best to mix it. Oz played well too and our defence didn't look half as ragged as it has been. We're not a relegation outfit by a long stretch. UTG!
|
|
laughinggas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,644
Member is Online
|
Post by laughinggas on Nov 25, 2020 15:46:10 GMT
I've racked me brains but simply can't recall any long-lasting DoF. It's a thanks for all you've done now disappear behind the wallpaper kind of role from what I can make out. Him being made interim when there are adequate people among the coaching staff was an odd one too. I think it could be quite an important role at this club. Is Widdrington the right man to fulfill it? Not for my money. He did well with JCH, fair play, but what happened to all the players he signed for Coughlan? All playing in the league below apart from JCH. The current lot aren’t looking likely to do much better either and the less said about Timmy Abraham the better. Our scouting work doesn’t seem to be good enough at the moment. It needs to be more accurate if we’re to both survive at league one level AND develop young players to sell on. For that reason I think a DOF is important to this club, BUT I think we need to put a lot of effort into getting the right man and improving our scouting network if we want to be successful in terms of developing youth The players he signed for GC were players of a type GC wanted. Look for a conversation with him involved where he said he listed better players but GC was not interested.
|
|
alanrg
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 91
|
Post by alanrg on Nov 25, 2020 16:23:51 GMT
Talking about Michael Kelly could not understand why we gave him a new contract we needs 2 go in the summer never rated that guy
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 25, 2020 16:29:57 GMT
Talking about Michael Kelly could not understand why we gave him a new contract we needs 2 go in the summer never rated that guy Um, that would be a certain BG who could answer that... Or probably now the truth doesn't matter so it must be a TW decision!?
|
|
|
Shambles.
Nov 25, 2020 16:32:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 25, 2020 16:32:24 GMT
Yep.... I'm still trying to work out whether that's a compliment or insult?
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 25, 2020 16:37:13 GMT
Something has gone very badly wrong here, and you cant point the finger squarly at BG. So, with that logic, if something had been reversed and gone very well here and we'd be top of the table, I'm guessing no one could point the finger squarely of giving credit to BG?
|
|
TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by TaiwanGas on Nov 25, 2020 16:39:20 GMT
Well if one of the coaches was appointed and they won 3 games then big pressure to give them the job. So given we said experienced manager was the requirement why introduce the opportunity for that pressure. Thought it made sense to appoint someone who did not want the job. I guess so, but DoF for Tisdale? FWIW, I thought Nicholson had a great game. He chased everything, won tackles and got into great scoring positions through sheer willpower. He's not a striker and plenty of those have messed up easier chances, e.g. Werner, lol. I love the ones that fly over the bar from a foot out. It looks like our Sam tried to stroke it into the far corner with the side of his foot and his toes got in the way and it swerved the other way. A bit more composure and it had flown in. We even played it out from the back several times when there was no danger - there was no danger for most of the game - and along the ground in some good passages of play. I hope that continues but it's best to mix it. Oz played well too and our defence didn't look half as ragged as it has been. We're not a relegation outfit by a long stretch. UTG! Yes CPB, I agree some green shoots of improvement were on show, but the fact remains that we could not beat an extremely poor Wigan side, after failing to get anything from a very poor Swindon side, landing us in the relegation zone, 2/1 odds with the bookies to go down, no fit strikers, It needs to turn around mighty fast for us not to be considered a relegation threatened outfit.
|
|
|
Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 25, 2020 16:43:43 GMT
I guess so, but DoF for Tisdale? FWIW, I thought Nicholson had a great game. He chased everything, won tackles and got into great scoring positions through sheer willpower. He's not a striker and plenty of those have messed up easier chances, e.g. Werner, lol. I love the ones that fly over the bar from a foot out. It looks like our Sam tried to stroke it into the far corner with the side of his foot and his toes got in the way and it swerved the other way. A bit more composure and it had flown in. We even played it out from the back several times when there was no danger - there was no danger for most of the game - and along the ground in some good passages of play. I hope that continues but it's best to mix it. Oz played well too and our defence didn't look half as ragged as it has been. We're not a relegation outfit by a long stretch. UTG! I am dreading the visit of Gillingham's bully boys this weekend, it's going to be tough to get a point. Don't worry me ole mate, TG before we get bullied off the ball by some right Kents, we have a nice little humiliation waiting in the wings on Sunday fa cup v Darlings......live here so all the country can witness PT debut home match.....but at least it won't be 3am start for you on Sunday?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Shambles.
Nov 25, 2020 16:52:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 16:52:20 GMT
I think it could be quite an important role at this club. Is Widdrington the right man to fulfill it? Not for my money. He did well with JCH, fair play, but what happened to all the players he signed for Coughlan? All playing in the league below apart from JCH. The current lot aren’t looking likely to do much better either and the less said about Timmy Abraham the better. Our scouting work doesn’t seem to be good enough at the moment. It needs to be more accurate if we’re to both survive at league one level AND develop young players to sell on. For that reason I think a DOF is important to this club, BUT I think we need to put a lot of effort into getting the right man and improving our scouting network if we want to be successful in terms of developing youth The players he signed for GC were players of a type GC wanted. Look for a conversation with him involved where he said he listed better players but GC was not interested. And yet ironically those players of a certain type had won more games by this time last year than the players who the same man was talking up after Garner got the sack as if it was the manager that was the problem and not the recruitment. There are very few people who seem to be confident that this squad is any good, except the DOF.
|
|
TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,327
|
Post by TaiwanGas on Nov 25, 2020 17:19:10 GMT
I am dreading the visit of Gillingham's bully boys this weekend, it's going to be tough to get a point. Don't worry me ole mate, TG before we get bullied off the ball by some right Kents, we have a nice little humiliation waiting in the wings on Sunday fa cup v Darlings......live here so all the country can witness PT debut home match.....but at least it won't be 3am start for you on Sunday? Aye o2, I spotted my error and deleted it quickly but ye caught me with me pants down with that one..ha ha. 9:30pm ko for me for the Darling's. Hope we give OUR local lad Striker Kieran Phillips a run out on Sunday, or at least have him on the bench, bring him on when we are 3-0 up (ha) and rest our battered few strikers to face the improving Kent bullies, they ain't no Wigan or Swindon.
|
|