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Post by laughinggas on Nov 20, 2020 14:19:37 GMT
Tommy W.
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Angas
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Post by Angas on Nov 20, 2020 14:41:45 GMT
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 20, 2020 15:28:22 GMT
Not quite sure what to make of that really.
I quite like the DOF model and if you are going to go down the 'develop young players' route it makes sense to have a longer-term stable prescence who isn't going to be susceptible to the pressures and short-term demands on a manager and can provide some continuity.
Widdrington seems quite highly thought of and has been here for a while so I agree with the rationale.
However, I'm a bit surprised that Tisdale was happy with this. After all he has a lot more experience that Widdrington so you'd think he'd have rather had it the other way round. It sets up a slightly odd dynamic. But you assume all must have been satisfied with the arrangement.
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Post by laughinggas on Nov 20, 2020 15:40:24 GMT
Not quite sure what to make of that really.
I quite like the DOF model and if you are going to go down the 'develop young players' route it makes sense to have a longer-term stable prescence who isn't going to be susceptible to the pressures and short-term demands on a manager and can provide some continuity.
Widdrington seems quite highly thought of and has been here for a while so I agree with the rationale.
However, I'm a bit surprised that Tisdale was happy with this. After all he has a lot more experience that Widdrington so you'd think he'd have rather had it the other way round. It sets up a slightly odd dynamic. But you assume all must have been satisfied with the arrangement.
Steve Perryman was DOF at Exeter with Tis. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 20, 2020 15:42:21 GMT
Not quite sure what to make of that really.
I quite like the DOF model and if you are going to go down the 'develop young players' route it makes sense to have a longer-term stable prescence who isn't going to be susceptible to the pressures and short-term demands on a manager and can provide some continuity.
Widdrington seems quite highly thought of and has been here for a while so I agree with the rationale.
However, I'm a bit surprised that Tisdale was happy with this. After all he has a lot more experience that Widdrington so you'd think he'd have rather had it the other way round. It sets up a slightly odd dynamic. But you assume all must have been satisfied with the arrangement.
Steve Perryman was DOF at Exeter with Tis. That's true but Tisdale was much younger and more inexperienced at the time. But, you're right, and he does have a previous relationship with Widdrington as I understand it. So maybe it is a preferred way of working anyway. |
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Post by traveling_wilbury on Nov 20, 2020 16:24:12 GMT
I read it that Tommy W is still doing whatever he was doing but just with a seat on the board (which I'm sure has been mentioned in the past).
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Post by swissgas on Nov 20, 2020 17:33:42 GMT
Not quite sure what to make of that really.
I quite like the DOF model and if you are going to go down the 'develop young players' route it makes sense to have a longer-term stable prescence who isn't going to be susceptible to the pressures and short-term demands on a manager and can provide some continuity.
Widdrington seems quite highly thought of and has been here for a while so I agree with the rationale.
However, I'm a bit surprised that Tisdale was happy with this. After all he has a lot more experience that Widdrington so you'd think he'd have rather had it the other way round. It sets up a slightly odd dynamic. But you assume all must have been satisfied with the arrangement.
Did Paul know about the arrangement because he didn't mention it yesterday ? And should this DOF appointment have been tried earlier with Tommy taking on a more formalized management role which included mentoring Ben ? Could that have brought about a better outcome and saved money ? |
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Nov 20, 2020 19:34:15 GMT
Hmm,can someone explain what Tommys DOF/other duties are please?
Edit.I've now seen the TW interview ,so now I know.
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 20, 2020 19:45:45 GMT
I read it that Tommy W is still doing whatever he was doing but just with a seat on the board (which I'm sure has been mentioned in the past). Yes, I think you’ll be right. I guess you get different DOF with slightly different duties. TW will perhaps be a DOF with responsibility for recruitment both players and coaching/managerial posts, with a place on the board. Other clubs may have a DOF with different responsibilities. UTG! |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 21, 2020 7:03:58 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but I see this as a recognition of all the good, hard work TW has done for the club, and reward him with a promotion of sorts.
A bit like TG.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
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Post by basel on Nov 21, 2020 8:27:59 GMT
Hmm,can someone explain what Tommys DOF/other duties are please? I've now heard the TW interview and have got what he does. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 11:24:22 GMT
His signings have been a bit hit and miss, for me. In his interview he claimed that the standard of player has improved year on year (which sort of insinuates
our start to the season was all Garner’s fault) and yet we were 3rd under GC and this latest bunch have us hovering above the drop zone. The jury is still very much out on whether they are any good. Plus the squad is horrendously imbalanced and I’m sure TW has to take some of the blame for that. So for me, I don’t see what everyone else seems to think is so brilliant about him. Happy to stand corrected if this current squad fulfil the potential the experts on Gaschat all say they have though.
For me Tisdale has the profile of a DOF more than TW. If he really does have this wealth of experience of passing football and developing youth (Exeter and MK Dons fans seem to paint a different picture) then great but he doesn’t seem successful at league one level so for me his skills could be better utilised as a long term DOF setting the future direction of the club and providing continuity for the next 10 years under a succession of up and coming and hungry managers. His profile suggests he would bring some longevity that we could build the club round whilst dealing with the day to day issues of regular manager turnover every two years or so.
But that’s just me, maybe TW will prove me wrong with this current under performing squad.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 21, 2020 14:46:05 GMT
Not quite sure what to make of that really.
I quite like the DOF model and if you are going to go down the 'develop young players' route it makes sense to have a longer-term stable prescence who isn't going to be susceptible to the pressures and short-term demands on a manager and can provide some continuity.
Widdrington seems quite highly thought of and has been here for a while so I agree with the rationale.
However, I'm a bit surprised that Tisdale was happy with this. After all he has a lot more experience that Widdrington so you'd think he'd have rather had it the other way round. It sets up a slightly odd dynamic. But you assume all must have been satisfied with the arrangement.
Did Paul know about the arrangement because he didn't mention it yesterday ? And should this DOF appointment have been tried earlier with Tommy taking on a more formalized management role which included mentoring Ben ? Could that have brought about a better outcome and saved money ? To be honest LaughingGas reminding me that Tisdale worked under Perryman at Exeter puts my mind at ease.
Given they have a previous relationship with each other I wouldn't be surprised if it emerged from a 3 way conversation between Tisdale, Widdrington and ownership as to the best structure. I always agreed with Lennie Lawrence's views about DOFs being the way to go for lower league clubs so I'm quite happy with it.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 21, 2020 15:17:53 GMT
Did Paul know about the arrangement because he didn't mention it yesterday ? And should this DOF appointment have been tried earlier with Tommy taking on a more formalized management role which included mentoring Ben ? Could that have brought about a better outcome and saved money ? To be honest LaughingGas reminding me that Tisdale worked under Perryman at Exeter puts my mind at ease.
Given they have a previous relationship with each other I wouldn't be surprised if it emerged from a 3 way conversation between Tisdale, Widdrington and ownership as to the best structure. I always agreed with Lennie Lawrence's views about DOFs being the way to go for lower league clubs so I'm quite happy with it.
Yes, but you are taking something which has already happened, questioning why, and then finding that upon reflection you feel it is a justified decision, which is fine. If I wanted to be argumentative I should point out that Perryman is twenty years older than Tisdale, played over 600 top flight games for Tottenham and was already DOF at Exeter when Paul was appointed manager at the age of 33.  But my point really goes back to the old “managing the manager” theory I used to put forward years ago. When you appoint a manager in any business it rarely works perfectly to start with so you need to be prepared to take action to make it work. But in football it is too often the case that a manager comes in, doesn’t succeed initially and is soon fired without any effort being made to analyze what is going wrong and trying to correct it. We now know that it was Wael’s decision to appoint Ben Garner which makes it even stranger that he didn’t do more to try to help Garner before he suddenly abandoned the experiment. On the face of it nothing would have been lost by formalizing Tommy’s role as DOF earlier and then tasking him with mentoring Garner and helping him overcome the failure he was experiencing. If it had worked a probable six figure payoff could have been avoided and Wael would have been seen to have made a successful proactive management decision. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 21, 2020 16:07:35 GMT
To be honest LaughingGas reminding me that Tisdale worked under Perryman at Exeter puts my mind at ease.
Given they have a previous relationship with each other I wouldn't be surprised if it emerged from a 3 way conversation between Tisdale, Widdrington and ownership as to the best structure. I always agreed with Lennie Lawrence's views about DOFs being the way to go for lower league clubs so I'm quite happy with it.
Yes, but you are taking something which has already happened, questioning why, and then finding that upon reflection you feel it is a justified decision, which is fine. If I wanted to be argumentative I should point out that Perryman is twenty years older than Tisdale, played over 600 top flight games for Tottenham and was already DOF at Exeter when Paul was appointed manager at the age of 33. But my point really goes back to the old “managing the manager” theory I used to put forward years ago. When you appoint a manager in any business it rarely works perfectly to start with so you need to be prepared to take action to make it work. But in football it is too often the case that a manager comes in, doesn’t succeed initially and is soon fired without any effort being made to analyze what is going wrong and trying to correct it. We now know that it was Wael’s decision to appoint Ben Garner which makes it even stranger that he didn’t do more to try to help Garner before he suddenly abandoned the experiment. On the face of it nothing would have been lost by formalizing Tommy’s role as DOF earlier and then tasking him with mentoring Garner and helping him overcome the failure he was experiencing. If it had worked a probable six figure payoff could have been avoided and Wael would have been seen to have made a successful proactive management decision. Agreed but maybe I'm being generous enough to suggest that they are correcting an earlier mistake rather than flying by the seat of their pants on this. But also open minded to the possibility that I maybe being a bit panglossian because I like the Tisdale appointment and I like the DOF arrangement and therefore willing to overlook the slightly back to front way it seems to have been done. Ie. You'd normally think thr DOF would be the bigger appointment and then they'd pick the first team coach. This seems to have been somewhat the other way round.
Either way though I prefer the structure this way and would lean towards thinking it was more of a move in the right direction towards a more modern, sustainable and professional structure. It being Rovers though 'whirling incoherent cock-up' is always going to be a thoroughly plausible alternative explanation!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 17:14:05 GMT
His signings have been a bit hit and miss, for me. In his interview he claimed that the standard of player has improved year on year (which sort of insinuates our start to the season was all Garner’s fault) and yet we were 3rd under GC and this latest bunch have us hovering above the drop zone. The jury is still very much out on whether they are any good. Plus the squad is horrendously imbalanced and I’m sure TW has to take some of the blame for that. So for me, I don’t see what everyone else seems to think is so brilliant about him. Happy to stand corrected if this current squad fulfil the potential the experts on Gaschat all say they have though. For me Tisdale has the profile of a DOF more than TW. If he really does have this wealth of experience of passing football and developing youth (Exeter and MK Dons fans seem to paint a different picture) then great but he doesn’t seem successful at league one level so for me his skills could be better utilised as a long term DOF setting the future direction of the club and providing continuity for the next 10 years under a succession of up and coming and hungry managers. His profile suggests he would bring some longevity that we could build the club round whilst dealing with the day to day issues of regular manager turnover every two years or so. But that’s just me, maybe TW will prove me wrong with this current under performing squad. So, the recruitment then.... |
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Post by swissgas on Nov 21, 2020 18:02:42 GMT
His signings have been a bit hit and miss, for me. In his interview he claimed that the standard of player has improved year on year (which sort of insinuates our start to the season was all Garner’s fault) and yet we were 3rd under GC and this latest bunch have us hovering above the drop zone. The jury is still very much out on whether they are any good. Plus the squad is horrendously imbalanced and I’m sure TW has to take some of the blame for that. So for me, I don’t see what everyone else seems to think is so brilliant about him. Happy to stand corrected if this current squad fulfil the potential the experts on Gaschat all say they have though. For me Tisdale has the profile of a DOF more than TW. If he really does have this wealth of experience of passing football and developing youth (Exeter and MK Dons fans seem to paint a different picture) then great but he doesn’t seem successful at league one level so for me his skills could be better utilised as a long term DOF setting the future direction of the club and providing continuity for the next 10 years under a succession of up and coming and hungry managers. His profile suggests he would bring some longevity that we could build the club round whilst dealing with the day to day issues of regular manager turnover every two years or so. But that’s just me, maybe TW will prove me wrong with this current under performing squad. So, the recruitment then.... What you suggest about Paul Tisdale being more suited to a DOF throws up an alternative to Tommy Widdrington as a potential mentor to Ben Garner. In the short term at least that extra appointment wouldn’t have had any cost implications and if the “new philosophy” was actually real then such a move would have been a logical progression. A few weeks ago you made a very good post about what a “supporter” truly is. I agree with your interpretation and believe, as a club, we should be confident enough to allow alternative viewpoints to be put forward without fans immediately jumping up and down with accusations of disloyalty. We are in dangerous territory when the team is faltering, the club is in financial crisis and yet Wael is worshipped as a hero even though his decision making gets more and more questionable. |
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Post by a more piratey game on Nov 21, 2020 20:47:54 GMT
'Prior to Paul’s appointment we were delighted that Tommy (100%  ) Widdrington agreed to take caretaker charge of the team. It was felt at the time that Tommy’s knowledge of the squad and experience was perfectly suited to take the reins until the right candidate was appointed. He leaves the management hot seat after the win over Chelsea (for which he has been fined! ) and remains an integral part of the club.' the tone from Wael is spot-on there IMO, and tone is very important (my smilies added) |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 22, 2020 9:23:24 GMT
'Prior to Paul’s appointment we were delighted that Tommy (100% ) Widdrington agreed to take caretaker charge of the team. It was felt at the time that Tommy’s knowledge of the squad and experience was perfectly suited to take the reins until the right candidate was appointed. He leaves the management hot seat after the win over Chelsea (for which he has been fined! ) and remains an integral part of the club.' the tone from Wael is spot-on there IMO, and tone is very important (my smilies added) As was Millwall Tone. We miss him at the back, though I think Ehmer seems to be getting better and better... UTG. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Nov 22, 2020 14:31:45 GMT
'Prior to Paul’s appointment we were delighted that Tommy (100% ) Widdrington agreed to take caretaker charge of the team. It was felt at the time that Tommy’s knowledge of the squad and experience was perfectly suited to take the reins until the right candidate was appointed. He leaves the management hot seat after the win over Chelsea (for which he has been fined! ) and remains an integral part of the club.' the tone from Wael is spot-on there IMO, and tone is very important (my smilies added) As was Millwall Tone. We miss him at the back, though I think Ehmer seems to be getting better and better... UTG. Let Tilson go...got relegated from the 3rd tier the next season.
Let Elliot go....got relegated from the 3rdf tier the next season.
Let Craig go.....  ??
I can't help feeling that we are failing to learn the lesson that letting go of solid but ageing no nonsense centre backs because they probably want to be paid a bit over the odds for their worth at that age is something of a false economy in the mid-term.
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) Widdrington agreed to take caretaker charge of the team. It was felt at the time that Tommy’s knowledge of the squad and experience was perfectly suited to take the reins until the right candidate was appointed. He leaves the management hot seat after the win over Chelsea (for which he has been fined! 
??