Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Nov 16, 2020 23:37:57 GMT
We have an inexperienced line up of fancy dan footballers so can easily go down if get in a slump. We weren’t in a slump and looking in other direction when they sacked Ben, I would like on record. We have won 3 out of 11 games and are 18th in the table. You may have been looking in a different direction to most.
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Post by mangogas15 on Nov 17, 2020 7:32:34 GMT
They wanted him when they sacked Clarke, but Coughlan's results couldn't be ignored.
They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals.
I cannot see very many examples of this working down the years unless you look at Swansea with Martinez and then Rodgers, Liverpool with Klopp, the Brentford and Watford models. You can't blame the board for wanting to replicate those latter two examples.
It depends on the man you employ. He did not inspire confidence from day one. I wanted him to do well, I think we all wanted to have a team that played fast moving football. I felt for him when his daughter was ill of course. However, the style of football when he came in was poor in the games from last season and I was sat there thinking, he is going on about possession based football, in the opposition half, or final third even, yet we were conceding 60% possession sometimes more in games and losing, with no apparent gameplan other than to hope for a 1-0.
Season 2018/19 was a waste of money as a ST holder, but I actually enjoyed it up to xmas 2019, with some good wins, the comeback against Pompey, the Matty Taylor game, Southend, etc. But once Garner came in, the football was rubbish and we looked like a poor team, which other sides could easily bully.
The number of times he seemed content to lose 3-0 or 3-1, Saturday reminded me of that. I remember even watching the Fleetwood game where JCH missed a penalty. A 1-0 win for us on that day would have been a travesty and I think we all knew it.
COVID possibly saved us from a longer losing streak, but a losing mentality imbeds in a club, squad and manager, I have seen it coaching kids football and it is very difficult to break, when the players don't believe they are allowed to win. Coughlan's Rovers stuck it up em, won games they shouldn't, which was wholly refreshing.
I will not bemoan the loss of any of the old players, even JCH as players like him come and go as we know. We have a squad of decent, highly rated players who need direction and proper management, where everyone knows their job and they defend as a team as well as attack as a team.
I have seen enough from Hanlan, Westbrooke, Nicholson, the back 3 to suggest that we can stay up, but we need an experienced manager to come in and make them fight for a 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, not be content with playing catch up again and again.
Garner was out of his depth, his press conferences proved that, as well as his tactics. We also gave away winning positions too easily, but one of our main issues is pushing home any territorial advantage we get, if and when that occurs. The Burton game proved that and I think this is where the real rot started, as we were on a good run but couldn't hang on for a 1-0.
Clean sheets and dogged defending must come first at this level, then you have to be able to impose yourselves on the game in their final third, it has to be both and I'm afraid we were far too vulnerable at the back and not clinical enough upfront.
Currently I don't care how Garner does in his future career as he failed badly here and failed to take a massive opportunity that was presented to him.
The new training ground should be a decent draw for a better manager, as well as the squad we have (please get a better 2nd keeper now!!).
I am glad he is gone.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
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Post by TaiwanGas on Nov 17, 2020 8:11:54 GMT
They wanted him when they sacked Clarke, but Coughlan's results couldn't be ignored. They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I cannot see very many examples of this working down the years unless you look at Swansea with Martinez and then Rodgers, Liverpool with Klopp, the Brentford and Watford models. You can't blame the board for wanting to replicate those latter two examples. It depends on the man you employ. He did not inspire confidence from day one. I wanted him to do well, I think we all wanted to have a team that played fast moving football. I felt for him when his daughter was ill of course. However, the style of football when he came in was poor in the games from last season and I was sat there thinking, he is going on about possession based football, in the opposition half, or final third even, yet we were conceding 60% possession sometimes more in games and losing, with no apparent gameplan other than to hope for a 1-0. Season 2018/19 was a waste of money as a ST holder, but I actually enjoyed it up to xmas 2019, with some good wins, the comeback against Pompey, the Matty Taylor game, Southend, etc. But once Garner came in, the football was rubbish and we looked like a poor team, which other sides could easily bully. The number of times he seemed content to lose 3-0 or 3-1, Saturday reminded me of that. I remember even watching the Fleetwood game where JCH missed a penalty. A 1-0 win for us on that day would have been a travesty and I think we all knew it. COVID possibly saved us from a longer losing streak, but a losing mentality imbeds in a club, squad and manager, I have seen it coaching kids football and it is very difficult to break, when the players don't believe they are allowed to win. Coughlan's Rovers stuck it up em, won games they shouldn't, which was wholly refreshing. I will not bemoan the loss of any of the old players, even JCH as players like him come and go as we know. We have a squad of decent, highly rated players who need direction and proper management, where everyone knows their job and they defend as a team as well as attack as a team. I have seen enough from Hanlan, Westbrooke, Nicholson, the back 3 to suggest that we can stay up, but we need an experienced manager to come in and make them fight for a 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, not be content with playing catch up again and again. Garner was out of his depth, his press conferences proved that, as well as his tactics. We also gave away winning positions too easily, but one of our main issues is pushing home any territorial advantage we get, if and when that occurs. The Burton game proved that and I think this is where the real rot started, as we were on a good run but couldn't hang on for a 1-0. Clean sheets and dogged defending must come first at this level, then you have to be able to impose yourselves on the game in their final third, it has to be both and I'm afraid we were far too vulnerable at the back and not clinical enough upfront. Currently I don't care how Garner does in his future career as he failed badly here and failed to take a massive opportunity that was presented to him. The new training ground should be a decent draw for a better manager, as well as the squad we have (please get a better 2nd keeper now!!). I am glad he is gone. Agree with most of that Mango, but we surely missed Fist Pumpin' Tone at the heart of defense, add to that, Alfie surely did.
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Post by rowdenhill on Nov 17, 2020 8:45:20 GMT
They wanted him when they sacked Clarke, but Coughlan's results couldn't be ignored. They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I cannot see very many examples of this working down the years unless you look at Swansea with Martinez and then Rodgers, Liverpool with Klopp, the Brentford and Watford models. You can't blame the board for wanting to replicate those latter two examples. It depends on the man you employ. He did not inspire confidence from day one. I wanted him to do well, I think we all wanted to have a team that played fast moving football. I felt for him when his daughter was ill of course. However, the style of football when he came in was poor in the games from last season and I was sat there thinking, he is going on about possession based football, in the opposition half, or final third even, yet we were conceding 60% possession sometimes more in games and losing, with no apparent gameplan other than to hope for a 1-0. Season 2018/19 was a waste of money as a ST holder, but I actually enjoyed it up to xmas 2019, with some good wins, the comeback against Pompey, the Matty Taylor game, Southend, etc. But once Garner came in, the football was rubbish and we looked like a poor team, which other sides could easily bully. The number of times he seemed content to lose 3-0 or 3-1, Saturday reminded me of that. I remember even watching the Fleetwood game where JCH missed a penalty. A 1-0 win for us on that day would have been a travesty and I think we all knew it. COVID possibly saved us from a longer losing streak, but a losing mentality imbeds in a club, squad and manager, I have seen it coaching kids football and it is very difficult to break, when the players don't believe they are allowed to win. Coughlan's Rovers stuck it up em, won games they shouldn't, which was wholly refreshing. I will not bemoan the loss of any of the old players, even JCH as players like him come and go as we know. We have a squad of decent, highly rated players who need direction and proper management, where everyone knows their job and they defend as a team as well as attack as a team. I have seen enough from Hanlan, Westbrooke, Nicholson, the back 3 to suggest that we can stay up, but we need an experienced manager to come in and make them fight for a 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, not be content with playing catch up again and again. Garner was out of his depth, his press conferences proved that, as well as his tactics. We also gave away winning positions too easily, but one of our main issues is pushing home any territorial advantage we get, if and when that occurs. The Burton game proved that and I think this is where the real rot started, as we were on a good run but couldn't hang on for a 1-0. Clean sheets and dogged defending must come first at this level, then you have to be able to impose yourselves on the game in their final third, it has to be both and I'm afraid we were far too vulnerable at the back and not clinical enough upfront. Currently I don't care how Garner does in his future career as he failed badly here and failed to take a massive opportunity that was presented to him. The new training ground should be a decent draw for a better manager, as well as the squad we have (please get a better 2nd keeper now!!). I am glad he is gone.
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Post by rowdenhill on Nov 17, 2020 8:45:47 GMT
Completely agree. Well said, Mango.
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Post by laughinggas on Nov 17, 2020 8:54:30 GMT
You enjoyed the Southend game, really? Good result but we walked away from ground saying that was bad. Sorry did not enjoy that at all. GC, gone. BG, gone.
Let's see who come is next. A club with nice training pitches and a nice football pitch. Great fans. Ability to get bigger gates, post covid.
What else is there to sell us to some of those names being mentioned, step up from where they are seems to be it.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 17, 2020 9:25:36 GMT
They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I never believed this spin. And I never believed in Ben Garner. Allegedly highly rated by who exactly... err... umm... Tony Pulis & Ricky Lambert? BG had a sub-optimal CV and he was pipped to the post by GC. To be fair, at the time this was the right decision by the Board. Garnerball post-DC would have seen us relegated, of that I'm sure. I contend BG finally landed the job based on a personal relationship with someone at Board level. How else could his CV magically float to the top of the pile. I have no proof of this, but can't think of any other reason why we gave him the job. A wasted year, and as others have said, now comes the tricky bit. We have a Garnerball squad. Do we re-build the squad and change the footballing philosophy? Or do we bring in a footballing alchemist who can turn this under-achieving squad into promotion challengers? There may be trouble ahead.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 10:05:47 GMT
They wanted him when they sacked Clarke, but Coughlan's results couldn't be ignored. They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I cannot see very many examples of this working down the years unless you look at Swansea with Martinez and then Rodgers, Liverpool with Klopp, the Brentford and Watford models. You can't blame the board for wanting to replicate those latter two examples. It depends on the man you employ. He did not inspire confidence from day one. I wanted him to do well, I think we all wanted to have a team that played fast moving football. I felt for him when his daughter was ill of course. However, the style of football when he came in was poor in the games from last season and I was sat there thinking, he is going on about possession based football, in the opposition half, or final third even, yet we were conceding 60% possession sometimes more in games and losing, with no apparent gameplan other than to hope for a 1-0. Season 2018/19 was a waste of money as a ST holder, but I actually enjoyed it up to xmas 2019, with some good wins, the comeback against Pompey, the Matty Taylor game, Southend, etc. But once Garner came in, the football was rubbish and we looked like a poor team, which other sides could easily bully. The number of times he seemed content to lose 3-0 or 3-1, Saturday reminded me of that. I remember even watching the Fleetwood game where JCH missed a penalty. A 1-0 win for us on that day would have been a travesty and I think we all knew it. COVID possibly saved us from a longer losing streak, but a losing mentality imbeds in a club, squad and manager, I have seen it coaching kids football and it is very difficult to break, when the players don't believe they are allowed to win. Coughlan's Rovers stuck it up em, won games they shouldn't, which was wholly refreshing. I will not bemoan the loss of any of the old players, even JCH as players like him come and go as we know. We have a squad of decent, highly rated players who need direction and proper management, where everyone knows their job and they defend as a team as well as attack as a team. I have seen enough from Hanlan, Westbrooke, Nicholson, the back 3 to suggest that we can stay up, but we need an experienced manager to come in and make them fight for a 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, not be content with playing catch up again and again. Garner was out of his depth, his press conferences proved that, as well as his tactics. We also gave away winning positions too easily, but one of our main issues is pushing home any territorial advantage we get, if and when that occurs. The Burton game proved that and I think this is where the real rot started, as we were on a good run but couldn't hang on for a 1-0. Clean sheets and dogged defending must come first at this level, then you have to be able to impose yourselves on the game in their final third, it has to be both and I'm afraid we were far too vulnerable at the back and not clinical enough upfront. Currently I don't care how Garner does in his future career as he failed badly here and failed to take a massive opportunity that was presented to him. The new training ground should be a decent draw for a better manager, as well as the squad we have (please get a better 2nd keeper now!!). I am glad he is gone. "I have seen enough from Hanlan, Westbrooke, Nicholson, the back 3 to suggest that we can stay up, but we need an experienced manager to come in and make them fight for a 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, not be content with playing catch up again and again." Hear, hear! Great post, mango #UTG
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Post by mangogas15 on Nov 17, 2020 10:11:53 GMT
They wanted him when they sacked Clarke, but Coughlan's results couldn't be ignored. They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I cannot see very many examples of this working down the years unless you look at Swansea with Martinez and then Rodgers, Liverpool with Klopp, the Brentford and Watford models. You can't blame the board for wanting to replicate those latter two examples. It depends on the man you employ. He did not inspire confidence from day one. I wanted him to do well, I think we all wanted to have a team that played fast moving football. I felt for him when his daughter was ill of course. However, the style of football when he came in was poor in the games from last season and I was sat there thinking, he is going on about possession based football, in the opposition half, or final third even, yet we were conceding 60% possession sometimes more in games and losing, with no apparent gameplan other than to hope for a 1-0. Season 2018/19 was a waste of money as a ST holder, but I actually enjoyed it up to xmas 2019, with some good wins, the comeback against Pompey, the Matty Taylor game, Southend, etc. But once Garner came in, the football was rubbish and we looked like a poor team, which other sides could easily bully. The number of times he seemed content to lose 3-0 or 3-1, Saturday reminded me of that. I remember even watching the Fleetwood game where JCH missed a penalty. A 1-0 win for us on that day would have been a travesty and I think we all knew it. COVID possibly saved us from a longer losing streak, but a losing mentality imbeds in a club, squad and manager, I have seen it coaching kids football and it is very difficult to break, when the players don't believe they are allowed to win. Coughlan's Rovers stuck it up em, won games they shouldn't, which was wholly refreshing. I will not bemoan the loss of any of the old players, even JCH as players like him come and go as we know. We have a squad of decent, highly rated players who need direction and proper management, where everyone knows their job and they defend as a team as well as attack as a team. I have seen enough from Hanlan, Westbrooke, Nicholson, the back 3 to suggest that we can stay up, but we need an experienced manager to come in and make them fight for a 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, not be content with playing catch up again and again. Garner was out of his depth, his press conferences proved that, as well as his tactics. We also gave away winning positions too easily, but one of our main issues is pushing home any territorial advantage we get, if and when that occurs. The Burton game proved that and I think this is where the real rot started, as we were on a good run but couldn't hang on for a 1-0. Clean sheets and dogged defending must come first at this level, then you have to be able to impose yourselves on the game in their final third, it has to be both and I'm afraid we were far too vulnerable at the back and not clinical enough upfront. Currently I don't care how Garner does in his future career as he failed badly here and failed to take a massive opportunity that was presented to him. The new training ground should be a decent draw for a better manager, as well as the squad we have (please get a better 2nd keeper now!!). I am glad he is gone. Agree with most of that Mango, but we surely missed Fist Pumpin' Tone at the heart of defense, add to that, Alfie surely did. Depends on how the manager wanted to play, I would expect to see Kilgour back, but Ehmer could be a younger version of Craig, and is better on the ball and quicker. I don't think he would have stopped the goals we have conceded. Would not have been allowed to play his way.
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Post by mangogas15 on Nov 17, 2020 10:12:54 GMT
You enjoyed the Southend game, really? Good result but we walked away from ground saying that was bad. Sorry did not enjoy that at all. GC, gone. BG, gone. Let's see who come is next. A club with nice training pitches and a nice football pitch. Great fans. Ability to get bigger gates, post covid. What else is there to sell us to some of those names being mentioned, step up from where they are seems to be it. My lasting memory of the Southend game is relief and 6 goals. Entertaining for my money.
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 369
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Post by bondigas on Nov 17, 2020 10:12:58 GMT
They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I never believed this spin. And I never believed in Ben Garner. Allegedly highly rated by who exactly... err... umm... Tony Pulis & Ricky Lambert? BG had a sub-optimal CV and he was pipped to the post by GC. To be fair, at the time this was the right decision by the Board. Garnerball post-DC would have seen us relegated, of that I'm sure. I contend BG finally landed the job based on a personal relationship with someone at Board level. How else could his CV magically float to the top of the pile. I have no proof of this, but can't think of any other reason why we gave him the job. A wasted year, and as others have said, now comes the tricky bit. We have a Garnerball squad. Do we re-build the squad and change the footballing philosophy? Or do we bring in a footballing alchemist who can turn this under-achieving squad into promotion challengers? There may be trouble ahead.
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Post by mangogas15 on Nov 17, 2020 10:13:26 GMT
They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I never believed this spin. And I never believed in Ben Garner. Allegedly highly rated by who exactly... err... umm... Tony Pulis & Ricky Lambert? BG had a sub-optimal CV and he was pipped to the post by GC. To be fair, at the time this was the right decision by the Board. Garnerball post-DC would have seen us relegated, of that I'm sure. I contend BG finally landed the job based on a personal relationship with someone at Board level. How else could his CV magically float to the top of the pile. I have no proof of this, but can't think of any other reason why we gave him the job. A wasted year, and as others have said, now comes the tricky bit. We have a Garnerball squad. Do we re-build the squad and change the footballing philosophy? Or do we bring in a footballing alchemist who can turn this under-achieving squad into promotion challengers? There may be trouble ahead. Ollie rated him while at Palace. They wanted him skewed in as manager by hook or crook, i think you might be right. We have some good hungry footballers at our club, which a good manager can mould to play to their strengths, not square pegs in round holes.
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eppinggas
Administrator
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Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 17, 2020 10:21:58 GMT
I never believed this spin. And I never believed in Ben Garner. Allegedly highly rated by who exactly... err... umm... Tony Pulis & Ricky Lambert? BG had a sub-optimal CV and he was pipped to the post by GC. To be fair, at the time this was the right decision by the Board. Garnerball post-DC would have seen us relegated, of that I'm sure. I contend BG finally landed the job based on a personal relationship with someone at Board level. How else could his CV magically float to the top of the pile. I have no proof of this, but can't think of any other reason why we gave him the job. A wasted year, and as others have said, now comes the tricky bit. We have a Garnerball squad. Do we re-build the squad and change the footballing philosophy? Or do we bring in a footballing alchemist who can turn this under-achieving squad into promotion challengers? There may be trouble ahead. Ollie rated him while at Palace.They wanted him skewed in as manager by hook or crook, i think you might be right. We have some good hungry footballers at our club, which a good manager can mould to play to their strengths, not square pegs in round holes. Fair point. Still a massive gamble to give a coach the managers job based on a paper thin CV. Surely there were better options out there at the time. Hey ho. Let's move on. UTG.
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 369
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Post by bondigas on Nov 17, 2020 10:26:48 GMT
I couldn't agree with you more, the Bristol Post were the worst at hyping up Garner, Premier League credentials, fantastic contacts in the game, highly regarded at his previous clubs, needs time, it will come etc,etc. Somebody made this sugary appointment and it wasn't the Board, that doesn't exist, you get the impression they were taken off guard by the call from the Fuhrer's Amman Bunker on Saturday evening. Will Pulis take Garner to Sheffield Wednesday as one of his coaches, will Warnock invite him to join him at Middlesborough in the same capacity.
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Post by mangogas15 on Nov 17, 2020 10:32:58 GMT
Ollie rated him while at Palace.They wanted him skewed in as manager by hook or crook, i think you might be right. We have some good hungry footballers at our club, which a good manager can mould to play to their strengths, not square pegs in round holes. Fair point. Still a massive gamble to give a coach the managers job based on a paper thin CV. Surely there were better options out there at the time. Hey ho. Let's move on. UTG. Too big a gamble in hindsight and foresight..
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Post by mangogas15 on Nov 17, 2020 10:34:09 GMT
I couldn't agree with you more, the Bristol Post were the worst at hyping up Garner, Premier League credentials, fantastic contacts in the game, highly regarded at his previous clubs, needs time, it will come etc,etc. Somebody made this sugary appointment and it wasn't the Board, that doesn't exist, you get the impression they were taken off guard by the call from the Fuhrer's Amman Bunker on Saturday evening. Will Pulis take Garner to Sheffield Wednesday as one of his coaches, will Warnock invite him to join him at Middlesborough in the same capacity. Contacts I would agree, his signings have been good, can't fault any of the players. Just him.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 17, 2020 11:02:07 GMT
They wanted him when they sacked Clarke, but Coughlan's results couldn't be ignored. They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. As much as I hold our owner in the highest regard, I fear he has been hypnotised that any connections with Chelski (mourinho recommendations in BG case) must be the amazing.. Apart from Blackman, I would disagree, from what I've seen.
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TaiwanGas
Paul Bannon
Tom Ramasuts Left Foot.
Joined: June 2014
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Post by TaiwanGas on Nov 17, 2020 12:27:54 GMT
Gary Megson did not rate BG, when he was made Caretaker of the Baggies in 2017 he insisted that BG be removed from coaching duties.
(Don, Don, Don Megson!...sorry could not resist!)
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warehamgas
Predictions League
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Post by warehamgas on Nov 17, 2020 14:15:54 GMT
They finally got him, as this highly rated coach, well thought of, they saw a chance to give someone time to bed in his ideals. I never believed this spin. And I never believed in Ben Garner. Allegedly highly rated by who exactly... err... umm... Tony Pulis & Ricky Lambert? BG had a sub-optimal CV and he was pipped to the post by GC. To be fair, at the time this was the right decision by the Board. Garnerball post-DC would have seen us relegated, of that I'm sure. I contend BG finally landed the job based on a personal relationship with someone at Board level. How else could his CV magically float to the top of the pile. I have no proof of this, but can't think of any other reason why we gave him the job. A wasted year, and as others have said, now comes the tricky bit. We have a Garnerball squad. Do we re-build the squad and change the footballing philosophy? Or do we bring in a footballing alchemist who can turn this under-achieving squad into promotion challengers? There may be trouble ahead. No need to rebuild the squad but we do need a better balanced squad. Too many central midfielders and not enough strikers. Hanlan is going to be worn out by Christmas. He takes a battering every match with little protection so needs a rest but we have no alternative. We need your alchemist epping to come in and tweak the formation and the good technical players into a squad that can compete with a few additions perhaps. I really don’t think we need too much more just someone who can inspire and organise a good squad better than BG. UTG!
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Post by gasheadnaboo on Nov 17, 2020 14:30:26 GMT
I couldn't agree with you more, the Bristol Post were the worst at hyping up Garner, Premier League credentials, fantastic contacts in the game, highly regarded at his previous clubs, needs time, it will come etc,etc. Somebody made this sugary appointment and it wasn't the Board, that doesn't exist, you get the impression they were taken off guard by the call from the Fuhrer's Amman Bunker on Saturday evening. Will Pulis take Garner to Sheffield Wednesday as one of his coaches, will Warnock invite him to join him at Middlesborough in the same capacity. Appears it had been brewing for a while judging from the Starnes interview and so it bloody well should have been; 19 defeats in 33 matches is horrendous!
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