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Post by mangogas15 on Sept 13, 2020 6:49:15 GMT
In corporate, look at how many CEO's are women compared to 20 years ago.
It takes time but it will filter through, that is not down to a quota but talent and opportunity.
Same with BAME in football but I fear it will become a quota first as it did in the film industry.
They have to be the best person for the job. That's just my opinion.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Sept 13, 2020 7:12:53 GMT
I don't want anything to do with it. In that case it'll continue until the coin drops
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Sept 13, 2020 7:51:38 GMT
We need a thumbs down button. I can email you articles on unconscious bias operating in all aspects of life; if you could be bothered to read them! Recently John Barnes, who seems to be the bete noire of the 'You can't say anything these days brigade' recently wrote on the subject and was , sadly unsurprisingly, subjected to the diatribes all over social media, particularly football forums including the normally 'right on' Celtic ones, a club of course, where he had a terrible time as manager. Those criticising him fell into that modern day trap of reading a headline , or a forum thread title , without actually bothering to read up on what the bloke wrote. On Celtic forums the twist tending to veer towards comments along the lines of 'He didn't get sacked because he was black, it was because he was s**te'. Yet in the article, Barnes acknowledged that his position at Celtic was untenable and he deserved the sack. I found it staggering and pretty heart-breaking, that despite several people pointing out what Barnes actually wrote, people still chose to stick with their original narrative. None of this is helped of course by much of the media who like to put their own little bit of spin on a story, knowing full well, they even if they tell bare faced lies. the worst that will happen is probably a minuscule apology tucked away in the small print. Barnes main point was that failed black managers don't get many other chances to prove themselves, whereas as white managers do and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that may be true. There is an unconscious bias at play, I am sure many of us have heard the -ridiculous- old one about black players not being able to perform in the cold, winter months and I even sat next to a Rovers plane on a plane once who told me who black players 'don't like being kicked' and when he played, he would always make sure he laid into any black players on the opposition! Even when I tried to remain civil and said 'I don't think anyone likes being kicked mate' he went into some bizarre theory about why having brown skin made you more susceptible to it! Luckily in the professional game there seem to be no such visible prejudices now . It also wasn't that long ago that the lack of Asians playing football was put down to the fact that 'they prefer cricket' , we know now this is also clearly a load of old bollocks Anyway, after all that, I don't think taking a knee will make a blind bit of difference, and I don't know what will. Let's just hope that one day people will be judged fairly and not on their skin tone or what school they went to ( I think the latter one may be the main stumbling block!)
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Sept 13, 2020 8:25:24 GMT
I don't want anything to do with it. In that case it'll continue until the coin drops I'm sure you will Cabbagepatch,I sincerely wish you luck. Will this 'falling coin' you mention be a Ruble,with a picture of Vladimir Lenin on it?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 13, 2020 8:28:03 GMT
I don't want anything to do with it. In that case it'll continue until the coin drops Yea but there's no need to chuck it! Haha!
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Post by outwoodgas on Sept 13, 2020 9:22:46 GMT
Looking at the facts without any sentiment or opinion whatsoever - in June there were 6 black managers in the football leagues, equating to 6.5% of managers. The percentage of black people in England and Wales is 3.4% so on that basis black coaches are already over-represented. Where they appear to be under-represented is in the number of black players who become managers. I can't find any statistics for the percentage of black players in the leagues, other than at the beginning of the 2017 / 18 season the proportion of black Premier League players was 33%. I believe that from Rovers first team squad of 21 we have six black players, so about 28.5 % are black. On these figures there is clearly a huge under-representation of black players becoming managers. However, if we must go down the route of differentiating people by their skin colour (which I would rather we did not - ed - that's an opinion), then with the boot on the other foot one might argue that the huge percentage of blacks footballers in the leagues represents a major discrimination against white boys who want to become footballers.
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Sept 13, 2020 10:06:53 GMT
I want to go to the Mem to watch my team and football and to me it is a leisure activity where I should be able to escape political messages. There are too many bandwagons albeit laudable ones and it's interrupting the game. I take an interest in current affairs and am socially and politically aware. I am even tired of the applause on certain minutes of a game, these sad occasions should be marked before the game or at half-time. I am not a Grinch and I often put my hand in my pocket to support causes, not for a warm glow or wanting to be seen doing so but to forward those causes; my glass is half-full, but I want to drink from it in peace every now and again.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Sept 13, 2020 10:16:06 GMT
I want to go to the Mem to watch my team and football and to me it is a leisure activity where I should be able to escape political messages. There are too many bandwagons albeit laudable ones and it's interrupting the game. I take an interest in current affairs and am socially and politically aware. I am even tired of the applause on certain minutes of a game, these sad occasions should be marked before the game or at half-time.I am not a Grinch and I often put my hand in my pocket to support causes, not for a warm glow or wanting to be seen doing so but to forward those causes; my glass is half-full, but I want to drink from it in peace every now and again. I'm with you there, although I would probably go further and not have any at all apart for people who had a direct and lost lasting effect on the club. I don't know the stats but I would guess that there have been more games with a round of applause than without, which I think takes something away from the meaning of it. I think the same on taking a knee. When Colin Kaepernick first did it, it meant something and undeniably had an impact. When a League One footballer does it at a game, or a Bristolian does it on College Green , no one is taking any notice, it is meaningless.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 10:25:37 GMT
take a knee to a bunch of marxist s**thouses wanting to bring down capitalism/defund the police ?
i will turn my back on any kneeling
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 10:44:46 GMT
take a knee to a bunch of marxist s***houses wanting to bring down capitalism/defund the police ?
i will turn my back on any kneeling
It's not being well received in America at events where spectators are present. Then players are getting stressy because supporters disagree with the act. Viewing figures are through the floor for events where teams are kneeling. It's hugely divisive and has no place in sport. Find a gesture / action that symbolises just a stance against racism / discrimination, of all forms, from all sides, and I'll wager you pound to a penny that the vast majority of the crowd will be stood shoulder to shoulder in support.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 10:50:41 GMT
take a knee to a bunch of marxist s***houses wanting to bring down capitalism/defund the police ?
i will turn my back on any kneeling
It's not being well received in America at events where spectators are present. Then players are getting stressy because supporters disagree with the act. Viewing figures are through the floor for events where teams are kneeling. It's hugely divisive and has no place in sport. Find a gesture / action that symbolises just a stance against racism / discrimination, of all forms, from all sides, and I'll wager you pound to a penny that the vast majority of the crowd will be stood shoulder to shoulder in support. spot on, anti racism is a given
anyone wishing to join ;blm; can now lovely sacha is setting up a blm political party,
racist b'stard herself mind
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syg
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 1,005
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Knee bend
Sept 13, 2020 12:46:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by syg on Sept 13, 2020 12:46:40 GMT
take a knee to a bunch of marxist s***houses wanting to bring down capitalism/defund the police ?
i will turn my back on any kneeling
It's not being well received in America at events where spectators are present. Then players are getting stressy because supporters disagree with the act. Viewing figures are through the floor for events where teams are kneeling. It's hugely divisive and has no place in sport. Find a gesture / action that symbolises just a stance against racism / discrimination, of all forms, from all sides, and I'll wager you pound to a penny that the vast majority of the crowd will be stood shoulder to shoulder in support. I just stuck on sky sports and there banging on about blm, just turned it off. Mark little is probably banging on about its importance going by his racist pro black rubbish he was posting on twitter a few months back.
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Post by swissgas on Sept 13, 2020 14:30:04 GMT
Looking at the facts without any sentiment or opinion whatsoever - in June there were 6 black managers in the football leagues, equating to 6.5% of managers. The percentage of black people in England and Wales is 3.4% so on that basis black coaches are already over-represented. Where they appear to be under-represented is in the number of black players who become managers. I can't find any statistics for the percentage of black players in the leagues, other than at the beginning of the 2017 / 18 season the proportion of black Premier League players was 33%. I believe that from Rovers first team squad of 21 we have six black players, so about 28.5 % are black. On these figures there is clearly a huge under-representation of black players becoming managers. However, if we must go down the route of differentiating people by their skin colour (which I would rather we did not - ed - that's an opinion), then with the boot on the other foot one might argue that the huge percentage of blacks footballers in the leagues represents a major discrimination against white boys who want to become footballers. Thanks for coming up with these stats. I’m sure many fans have thought about this but would never talk about it for fear of being labeled a racist. We all want the best managers, coaches and players on our team and most of us, including the people making the decisions on who to employ, don’t care what the color of their skin is.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Knee bend
Sept 13, 2020 15:32:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 15:32:49 GMT
Some of the things she said there were bordering on impolite.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,149
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Post by Cheshiregas on Sept 13, 2020 15:35:24 GMT
Looking at the facts without any sentiment or opinion whatsoever - in June there were 6 black managers in the football leagues, equating to 6.5% of managers. The percentage of black people in England and Wales is 3.4% so on that basis black coaches are already over-represented. Where they appear to be under-represented is in the number of black players who become managers. I can't find any statistics for the percentage of black players in the leagues, other than at the beginning of the 2017 / 18 season the proportion of black Premier League players was 33%. I believe that from Rovers first team squad of 21 we have six black players, so about 28.5 % are black. On these figures there is clearly a huge under-representation of black players becoming managers. However, if we must go down the route of differentiating people by their skin colour (which I would rather we did not - ed - that's an opinion), then with the boot on the other foot one might argue that the huge percentage of blacks footballers in the leagues represents a major discrimination against white boys who want to become footballers. Thanks for coming up with these stats. I’m sure many fans have thought about this but would never talk about it for fear of being labeled a racist. We all want the best managers, coaches and players on our team and most of us, including the people making the decisions on who to employ, don’t care what the color of their skin is. I also welcome statistics and facts. At 33% then black players are 'over-represented' in the Premier league vis-a-vis the number of black people in the country but we don't have an issue with that. They are there for ability not balance. Managers at 6.5% is also over the 3.4% in the country but does seem surprising in view of the representation of players. At the end of the day people will be appointed if they are good enough and have the right qualifications. Sometimes that is about perception though. I remember an interview with Paul Ince where he was moaning that he had not been invited (he hadn't applied at that time) to be a Premier club manager. The interviewer challenged him why he hadn't done his UEFA coaching badges. He replied (and this is what stuck with me) that he hadn't because it wasn't worth it as he wouldn't get a job because he was black! Yet he expected clubs to call him! Chris Hughton comes to mind as an example of someone who has done the miles. With regard to Black Lives Matter I believe the original idea was genuine but has been overtaken by radicals. I think also it should have been Black Lives Matter (as well!). It is also more applicable in the USA where you have a significantly high risk of being shot by the authorities if you are black or Hispanic. In the UK the number of people shot by the police is miniscule compared to population and we are all fortunate in that respect. With regard to taking the knee I believe as a one off (which I thought it was supposed to be) I didn't have an issue with it although I did have an issue with black players raising a (Black Power) fist salute. I cannot understand why it has to be at every match since. Is it going to continue until further notice? It was a bit like the applause for NHS workers. It was very genuine to start but became tedious for many and didn't result in any actual benefit such as a pay rise! The impact and goodwill of the knee gesture has already been lost as can be seen by the apparent anger from some on here. At the end of the day I agree with Swiss and the 'Kick it out' campaign which has more effect. We do need to be honest that racism still exists in society and at our football matches and it is up to us on the terraces to sort it. I'm not sure taking a knee will make any difference to a knuckle dragging racist, a voice in the crowd will be far more affective.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 16:27:22 GMT
Thanks for coming up with these stats. I’m sure many fans have thought about this but would never talk about it for fear of being labeled a racist. We all want the best managers, coaches and players on our team and most of us, including the people making the decisions on who to employ, don’t care what the color of their skin is. I also welcome statistics and facts. At 33% then black players are 'over-represented' in the Premier league vis-a-vis the number of black people in the country but we don't have an issue with that. They are there for ability not balance. Managers at 6.5% is also over the 3.4% in the country but does seem surprising in view of the representation of players. At the end of the day people will be appointed if they are good enough and have the right qualifications. Sometimes that is about perception though. I remember an interview with Paul Ince where he was moaning that he had not been invited (he hadn't applied at that time) to be a Premier club manager. The interviewer challenged him why he hadn't done his UEFA coaching badges. He replied (and this is what stuck with me) that he hadn't because it wasn't worth it as he wouldn't get a job because he was black! Yet he expected clubs to call him! Chris Hughton comes to mind as an example of someone who has done the miles. With regard to Black Lives Matter I believe the original idea was genuine but has been overtaken by radicals. I think also it should have been Black Lives Matter (as well!). It is also more applicable in the USA where you have a significantly high risk of being shot by the authorities if you are black or Hispanic. In the UK the number of people shot by the police is miniscule compared to population and we are all fortunate in that respect. With regard to taking the knee I believe as a one off (which I thought it was supposed to be) I didn't have an issue with it although I did have an issue with black players raising a (Black Power) fist salute. I cannot understand why it has to be at every match since. Is it going to continue until further notice? It was a bit like the applause for NHS workers. It was very genuine to start but became tedious for many and didn't result in any actual benefit such as a pay rise! The impact and goodwill of the knee gesture has already been lost as can be seen by the apparent anger from some on here. At the end of the day I agree with Swiss and the 'Kick it out' campaign which has more effect. We do need to be honest that racism still exists in society and at our football matches and it is up to us on the terraces to sort it. I'm not sure taking a knee will make any difference to a knuckle dragging racist, a voice in the crowd will be far more affective. Hi Terry I understand your viewpoint and the genuine question as to whether the general population, specifically in America, have grown "fatigued" by the protests. I would put it to you though that a decision to moderate protests, to change tactics, is not a decision for middle class white people to make. That is a decision for the protesters and their leadership, whoever they might be. I also disagree that "radicals" have overtaken the BLM movement. I would characterise it as more of a realisation that now is the time to press home the point and not, as previously, to go home and return to the cycle of action and retreat. I am led to believe that the Miami Dolphins, in their first game today at New England, will not take the field for the national anthem They have an afro American coaching team who have stated that words and symbols are no longer enough. The stats quoted above are completely fatuous. The real measurement is that set against the number of professional players in the game, as you hinted at. I accept that kick it out is a worthy endeavour. But at the next home game, count the number of Gasheads from an ethnic minority background...then judge if it has been successful, or just an effort that smooths a guilt.
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Deleted
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Posts: 0
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Knee bend
Sept 13, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
I would be totally embarrassed to be black which I am not. All this constant whinging makes them look absolutely pathetic. They really need to man up.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 16:45:17 GMT
I would be totally embarrassed to be black which I am not. All this constant whinging makes them look absolutely pathetic. They really need to man up. Actually, you are just plain embarrassing.
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Sept 13, 2020 17:00:09 GMT
I would be totally embarrassed to be black which I am not. All this constant whinging makes them look absolutely pathetic. They really need to man up. There's yer problem right there.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 17:06:57 GMT
Didn't take long for apologists for the riots taking place across America to surface and pretend that they 'aren't radical' did it.
Cheshire is bang on the money.
2016 UEFA Coaches Training Course at St Georges, I hope I have these numbers correct, they are very close if not exact, I think that 44 people signed up, 41 were white, none female, none Asian. Could this be why black people, Asians, females aren't represented in coaching?
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