Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Joined: May 2014
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Post by Peter Parker on Aug 7, 2020 12:24:46 GMT
Are we? Weal is in the middle of a spending spree, but at some point income is going to have to exceed expenditure. I don't think he has sufficient money to hand over the (circa) £10m to take control of the club, deal with the training ground, and on top of that cover losses which look likely to increase above the present £3m P/A for too many years. We just need to hope that he doesn't put us in a position where losses are even higher and then he decides to withdraw his financial support, that would be very messy, like Bury messy. When they said they've budgeted for the next two years, one concern I had was whether they've included hypothetical big money player sales into their budgeting? As they seem to believe Ben Garner is some sort of wonder coach. Who knows what/how they have budgeted, but I would like to believe Martyn Starnes is a better accountant then that and isn't going to blow smoke up Wael's ass I would imagine there are a few forecasts based on no fans being in attendance to 25%/50% etc as to what the financial implications to Wael will be
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Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
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Post by Rex on Aug 7, 2020 12:35:43 GMT
Are we? Weal is in the middle of a spending spree, but at some point income is going to have to exceed expenditure. I don't think he has sufficient money to hand over the (circa) £10m to take control of the club, deal with the training ground, and on top of that cover losses which look likely to increase above the present £3m P/A for too many years. We just need to hope that he doesn't put us in a position where losses are even higher and then he decides to withdraw his financial support, that would be very messy, like Bury messy. Here we go again,the swiss/bamber club strikes. Put a few long words in,make it sound like you know what your talking about and spread your non stop waves of negativity. I don't think Bambi is being unnecessarily negative, just cautious. There was ridiculous hysteria about what we were about to do when the Al Qadi's took over, I would have thought taking a cautious view is plain common sense.
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 362
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Post by bondigas on Aug 7, 2020 12:57:05 GMT
When they said they've budgeted for the next two years, one concern I had was whether they've included hypothetical big money player sales into their budgeting? As they seem to believe Ben Garner is some sort of wonder coach. Who knows what/how they have budgeted, but I would like to believe Martyn Starnes is a better accountant then that and isn't going to blow smoke up Wael's ass I would imagine there are a few forecasts based on no fans being in attendance to 25%/50% etc as to what the financial implications to Wael will be Its difficult to understand how you can set a budget for two years, you can calculate a figure for costs because you control that figure, how can you arrive at a figure for income when everything is so uncertain and changes every day. Shortage of cash coming into the club must be a massive headache, is that why season tickets have gone back on sale today. What if playing behind closed doors takes us through to next year, are the job preservationists hanging on in there for as long as they can before the proverbial hits the fan.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 13:28:38 GMT
Are we? Weal is in the middle of a spending spree, but at some point income is going to have to exceed expenditure. I don't think he has sufficient money to hand over the (circa) £10m to take control of the club, deal with the training ground, and on top of that cover losses which look likely to increase above the present £3m P/A for too many years. We just need to hope that he doesn't put us in a position where losses are even higher and then he decides to withdraw his financial support, that would be very messy, like Bury messy. Here we go again, the Swiss / Bamber club strikes. Put a few long words in, make it sound like you know what your talking about and spread your non stop waves of negativity. Do you think, virus aside, we have a sustainable business plan? I don't.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 7, 2020 15:23:49 GMT
Here we go again, the Swiss / Bamber club strikes. Put a few long words in, make it sound like you know what your talking about and spread your non stop waves of negativity. Do you think, virus aside, we have a sustainable business plan? I don't. Seriously? Do most clubs? Does any football club? It's a huge black hole of financial loss unless you're lucky and have a sugar daddy that writes off debt to conversion of shares without redress. What I think is undeniable is the amount of monies generated into the club through sponsorship and advertising (mostly via TG) is the most the club has ever seen in it's history. It's a start.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 7, 2020 16:33:36 GMT
Do you think, virus aside, we have a sustainable business plan? I don't. Seriously? Do most clubs? Does any football club? It's a huge black hole of financial loss unless you're lucky and have a sugar daddy that writes off debt to conversion of shares without redress. What I think is undeniable is the amount of monies generated into the club through sponsorship and advertising (mostly via TG) is the most the club has ever seen in it's history. It's a start. It is undeniable that we have been told the commercial revenue generated is the most we've ever seen although that can't be verified because the accounts give minimal detail. There is physical evidence that we can see of new advertising and sponsorship which suggests Tom Gorringe's claim of a 233% increase in revenue since 2018 is a valid one. However that is only part of the story and I'm sure KP for one will quickly point out the old adage of boasts about turnover being vanity but of profit being sanity. To get a true picture we would need to know the net contribution the commercial department makes to the club and how this is improving year on year. I hope Tom has made a difference in this respect but it would be encouraging to see the figures because the overall picture shown in the accounts is that between 2018 and 2019 the club's sales turnover rose by 9.6 % but the cost of sales rose by 12.8%. What is so refreshing about the Rochdale chairman's statement is that he doesn't pull any punches and tells it as it is. By contrast we are told that Wael is fully committed to the club, he will cover our losses whatever they may be and there is no need for outside investment from fans or anyone else. I think a great leap of faith is needed to buy into that.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 7, 2020 17:43:43 GMT
Seriously? Do most clubs? Does any football club? It's a huge black hole of financial loss unless you're lucky and have a sugar daddy that writes off debt to conversion of shares without redress. What I think is undeniable is the amount of monies generated into the club through sponsorship and advertising (mostly via TG) is the most the club has ever seen in it's history. It's a start. I think a great leap of faith is needed to buy into that. We have always been a club of hope rather than expectations. On and off the pitch. Commercially, we have alot of potential. From your reply, I assume that is undeniable? It's a far cry from just a few seasons ago, this decade, where a different tenure was projecting a different watertight story. I know where I would rather be.....plus, this leap of faith we all have to but into...?...who really knows what announcement might be around the corner involving investment?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 18:19:38 GMT
Here we go again, the Swiss / Bamber club strikes. Put a few long words in, make it sound like you know what your talking about and spread your non stop waves of negativity. Do you think, virus aside, we have a sustainable business plan? I don't. Football clubs and sustainable business plans don't really mix. Wealthy owners from chelsea to bristol city/rovers to forest green have distorted that premise along with TV money. Something bad might happen to any club or person but best not to wallow in pessimism and of course in swiss's the total misjudgement about the debt exceeding the value of the mem. Or is that still a runner?
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Post by swissgas on Aug 7, 2020 18:48:24 GMT
Do you think, virus aside, we have a sustainable business plan? I don't. Football clubs and sustainable business plans don't really mix. Wealthy owners from chelsea to bristol city/rovers to forest green have distorted that premise along with TV money. Something bad might happen to any club or person but best not to wallow in pessimism and of course in swiss's the total misjudgement about the debt exceeding the value of the mem. Or is that still a runner? I misjudge a lot of things but not that one, the debt of £ 18.4 million plus accrued interest of £ 2.1 million did exceed the value of the Mem. It might still do because Companies House doesn't show any recapitalization of BRFC 1883 Ltd and the charge over the Mem remains listed.
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Post by swissgas on Aug 7, 2020 19:03:52 GMT
I think a great leap of faith is needed to buy into that. We have always been a club of hope rather than expectations. On and off the pitch. Commercially, we have alot of potential. From your reply, I assume that is undeniable? It's a far cry from just a few seasons ago, this decade, where a different tenure was projecting a different watertight story. I know where I would rather be.....plus, this leap of faith we all have to but into...?...who really knows what announcement might be around the corner involving investment? I'd be a hypocrite if I said I had faith in Wael. But the events of the early part of the year gave him a chance of realizing his dream so long as he played his cards right. I thought he should use his new found wealth to leverage fresh investment and bring in partners with the necessary skills to get Rovers sorted out and make the most of the stadium opportunity. But he hasn't done that and in the recent video forum Martyn Starnes specifically ruled out the need for new investment. So I've got my feet firmly grounded and won't be taking that leap any time soon.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 19:14:05 GMT
Do you think, virus aside, we have a sustainable business plan? I don't. Football clubs and sustainable business plans don't really mix. Wealthy owners from chelsea to bristol city/rovers to forest green have distorted that premise along with TV money. Something bad might happen to any club or person but best not to wallow in pessimism and of course in swiss's the total misjudgement about the debt exceeding the value of the mem. Or is that still a runner? Here's the thing. 1. We aren't 'Debt free'. One person now has a huge amount of money sunk in to the club, and is spending more. I'm worried because the spending is the easy bit. 2. Wael's only source of income, as far as I'm aware, is the AJIB. That business isn't performing as well as it has historically. Anyway, aren't these new stadium updates heartening
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Aug 7, 2020 19:32:36 GMT
We have always been a club of hope rather than expectations. On and off the pitch. Commercially, we have alot of potential. From your reply, I assume that is undeniable? It's a far cry from just a few seasons ago, this decade, where a different tenure was projecting a different watertight story. I know where I would rather be.....plus, this leap of faith we all have to but into...?...who really knows what announcement might be around the corner involving investment? I'd be a hypocrite if I said I had faith in Wael. But the events of the early part of the year gave him a chance of realizing his dream so long as he played his cards right. I thought he should use his new found wealth to leverage fresh investment and bring in partners with the necessary skills to get Rovers sorted out and make the most of the stadium opportunity. But he hasn't done that and in the recent video forum Martyn Starnes specifically ruled out the need for new investment. So I've got my feet firmly grounded and won't be taking that leap any time soon. Ah, ok. I see it that we get certain pieces in place to make advancements. Development takes time, some things may take more time, but I would question the motives of anyone being brought in as far as fresh investment and partnerships. But surely, with any business you need investment? Can't say anything about which account is in / out, but the income is phenomenally more than Holtby bringing in dolly birds...(wtf?) ....and our commercial development are far more professional. It's definitely more than a start..
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Post by swissgas on Aug 7, 2020 20:23:04 GMT
I'd be a hypocrite if I said I had faith in Wael. But the events of the early part of the year gave him a chance of realizing his dream so long as he played his cards right. I thought he should use his new found wealth to leverage fresh investment and bring in partners with the necessary skills to get Rovers sorted out and make the most of the stadium opportunity. But he hasn't done that and in the recent video forum Martyn Starnes specifically ruled out the need for new investment. So I've got my feet firmly grounded and won't be taking that leap any time soon. Ah, ok. I see it that we get certain pieces in place to make advancements. Development takes time, some things may take more time, but I would question the motives of anyone being brought in as far as fresh investment and partnerships. But surely, with any business you need investment? Can't say anything about which account is in / out, but the income is phenomenally more than Holtby bringing in dolly birds...(wtf?) ....and our commercial development are far more professional. It's definitely more than a start.. In his 2019 strategic report for the football club (BRFC Ltd) Martyn Starnes included some useful data which, as far as I know, has never been discussed on the forums. During the year Rovers sent out 400 000 emails There were 4.7 million Twitter impressions The video platform had 2.3 million views There were 108 000 Facebook followers The club Instagram was being used as a tool to connect with supporters in the 18 - 24 year old age group and Bamber Gasgroin All very positive and if Karim & Tom are the main instigators I commend them for it.As you say, this is only part of it and only a start. But, before spending five lines on social media communication which I understand is an interesting and stimulating area of work, the CEO addressed the fundamental issue of huge financial losses in one sentence. "It is the club's policy to move towards a more sustainable business model by increasing revenue streams, obtaining best value for all goods and services received and achieving surpluses on the player trading account" With the best will in the world that is a very weak statement and shows, IMO, that we are relying completely on Wael having bottomless pockets.
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 7, 2020 20:50:46 GMT
Ah, ok. I see it that we get certain pieces in place to make advancements. Development takes time, some things may take more time, but I would question the motives of anyone being brought in as far as fresh investment and partnerships. But surely, with any business you need investment? Can't say anything about which account is in / out, but the income is phenomenally more than Holtby bringing in dolly birds...(wtf?) ....and our commercial development are far more professional. It's definitely more than a start.. In his 2019 strategic report for the football club (BRFC Ltd) Martyn Starnes included some useful data which, as far as I know, has never been discussed on the forums. During the year Rovers sent out 400 000 emails There were 4.7 million Twitter impressions The video platform had 2.3 million views There were 108 000 Facebook followers The club Instagram was being used as a tool to connect with supporters in the 18 - 24 year old age group and Bamber Gasgroin All very positive and if Karim & Tom are the main instigators I commend them for it.As you say, this is only part of it and only a start. But, before spending five lines on social media communication which I understand is an interesting and stimulating area of work, the CEO addressed the fundamental issue of huge financial losses in one sentence. "It is the club's policy to move towards a more sustainable business model by increasing revenue streams, obtaining best value for all goods and services received and achieving surpluses on the player trading account" With the best will in the world that is a very weak statement and shows, IMO, that we are relying completely on Wael having bottomless pockets. I think that's unhelpful hyperbole. I think we are relying on Wael having pockets deep enough to underwrite our trading. And, based on recent events, it seems to me that he has And I'm very much looking forward to the resumption of football, which I'm expecting to be a bumpy but interesting ride
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Post by swissgas on Aug 7, 2020 21:38:44 GMT
In his 2019 strategic report for the football club (BRFC Ltd) Martyn Starnes included some useful data which, as far as I know, has never been discussed on the forums. During the year Rovers sent out 400 000 emails There were 4.7 million Twitter impressions The video platform had 2.3 million views There were 108 000 Facebook followers The club Instagram was being used as a tool to connect with supporters in the 18 - 24 year old age group and Bamber Gasgroin All very positive and if Karim & Tom are the main instigators I commend them for it.As you say, this is only part of it and only a start. But, before spending five lines on social media communication which I understand is an interesting and stimulating area of work, the CEO addressed the fundamental issue of huge financial losses in one sentence. "It is the club's policy to move towards a more sustainable business model by increasing revenue streams, obtaining best value for all goods and services received and achieving surpluses on the player trading account" With the best will in the world that is a very weak statement and shows, IMO, that we are relying completely on Wael having bottomless pockets. I think that's unhelpful hyperbole. I think we are relying on Wael having pockets deep enough to underwrite our trading. And, based on recent events, it seems to me that he has And I'm very much looking forward to the resumption of football, which I'm expecting to be a bumpy but interesting ride I'm a bit confused as to why you call my post unhelpful hyperbole but still agree with it's conclusion ?
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Post by a more piratey game on Aug 7, 2020 21:44:02 GMT
I think that's unhelpful hyperbole. I think we are relying on Wael having pockets deep enough to underwrite our trading. And, based on recent events, it seems to me that he has And I'm very much looking forward to the resumption of football, which I'm expecting to be a bumpy but interesting ride I'm a bit confused as to why you call my post unhelpful hyperbole but still agree with it's conclusion ? Soz, should have edited. I think 'bottomless pockets' is unhelpful hyperbole And not sure there was a conclusion?
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Post by swissgas on Aug 7, 2020 22:50:24 GMT
I'm a bit confused as to why you call my post unhelpful hyperbole but still agree with it's conclusion ? Soz, should have edited. I think 'bottomless pockets' is unhelpful hyperbole And not sure there was a conclusion? My conclusion was that despite all the talk of achieving a level of sustainability the reality is that Rovers are going to be relying on Wael coming up with £2 - 3 million in cash to cover trading losses for the foreseeable future. But I agree that if I were to expand on why I think he won't be able to do it on his own then that would be unhelpful at the moment.
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Post by PessimistGas on Aug 8, 2020 0:00:28 GMT
Are we? Weal is in the middle of a spending spree, but at some point income is going to have to exceed expenditure. I don't think he has sufficient money to hand over the (circa) £10m to take control of the club, deal with the training ground, and on top of that cover losses which look likely to increase above the present £3m P/A for too many years. We just need to hope that he doesn't put us in a position where losses are even higher and then he decides to withdraw his financial support, that would be very messy, like Bury messy. The valuation of AJIB has roughly halved since Dwane Sports took over Rovers in 2016 and Wael is now shown as having an 8.5% shareholding with a theoretical value of £ 13.6 million. As you say Bamber, we must hope that he has other substantial cash resources so he can maintain his commitment to Rovers. Anyway, best get back to my allotment, it's hard work burying these jars of gold coins. Since capitalizing the debt, starting work on the training ground and investing heavily in the squad, I no longer have any doubts abour Weal's good intentions. He has clearly been freed by the death of his father and his sizable inheritance. I just hope he knows what he is doing.
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