Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 10:37:58 GMT
Angry? I'm not angry. You seem to be though. What's with all the sweary 'ffs' stuff? Chill out, it's only football. I'm a bit worried, mostly because we were hard to beat, then in the blink of an eye we became a soft touch and were horribly disorganised. But as said several times already, I hope Ben sorts it out, but I don't think he will, my thought is that he's a coach, not a manager. But will be delighted to be wrong. We'll know by the end of Sept. Surely this is why we've brought in Jack Mesure to help out. I think we can agree that BG was a over-whelmed/out of his depth last season with the squad he inherited. Instead of sacking him, we're sticking with him and giving him additional support. And I'll be supporting him. No negativity from me at the moment. My account has not been hacked. He had Coppell, that didn't help. I just think that players aren't interested in endless tactical discussions and theory at this level. Maybe if you are Barca or Citeh, but in L1, just keep your shape, get the ball to your danger players, work hard, don't give the opposition any time on the ball seems to be the ticket.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
|
Post by eppinggas on Jul 18, 2020 10:50:42 GMT
Surely this is why we've brought in Jack Mesure to help out. I think we can agree that BG was a over-whelmed/out of his depth last season with the squad he inherited. Instead of sacking him, we're sticking with him and giving him additional support. And I'll be supporting him. No negativity from me at the moment. My account has not been hacked. He had Coppell, that didn't help. I just think that players aren't interested in endless tactical discussions and theory at this level. Maybe if you are Barca or Citeh, but in L1, just keep your shape, get the ball to your danger players, work hard, don't give the opposition any time on the ball seems to be the ticket. I don't disagree. Perhaps BG will be working on a blend of tactical theory and (as you suggest) the latter. This is the masterplan...
|
|
|
Post by a more piratey game on Jul 18, 2020 10:57:55 GMT
And I'll be supporting him. No negativity from me at the moment. My account has not been hacked.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Jul 18, 2020 13:23:32 GMT
I think it's possible for a few things to be true here.
1. Garner did make a dog's dinner of his initial stint as manager and 2 wins in 30 really should have cost him is job. There is a certain contempt shown for the fans in both the sudden change of direction and the attitude of manager/board during that time. I can't forget that. We had a realistic (if long) shot at promotion and we didn't just whiff - we seemed to refuse to try. That's not acceptable.
2. We've gone all in on the 'technically gifted young prem cast-offs' model and are now more or less 100% Garner's side. So now we're in this position we need him to be successful. It's high risk but he doesn't seem to lack for confidence in his ability to get the best out of these kind of players. We have the facilities that he says he needs to do this. So it's full steam ahead for the Garner train and there's no disembarking now whether we like it or not.
3. The previous does not change the fact that it still does seem like a big risk that could go horribly wrong, gambling on a manager who has no experience and whose performance so far has been, to be charitable, crap. Seems reasonable if some people are bit skeptical to me but a bit futile because this is clearly the path we have chosen to go all in on at this point. If it comes apart you can say 'told you so' but seems a bit pyrric if we find ourselves bottom of the league at Christmas. So I'm holding on to the idea that a clear firm strategy put in place by a manager who knows his own mind, what he wants to achieve and now has the squad he wants, is going to be successful.
|
|
basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
|
Post by basel on Jul 18, 2020 13:44:47 GMT
I think it's possible for a few things to be true here.
1. Garner did make a dog's dinner of his initial stint as manager and 2 wins in 30 really should have cost him is job. There is a certain contempt shown for the fans in both the sudden change of direction and the attitude of manager/board during that time. I can't forget that. We had a realistic (if long) shot at promotion and we didn't just whiff - we seemed to refuse to try. That's not acceptable.
2. We've gone all in on the 'technically gifted young prem cast-offs' model and are now more or less 100% Garner's side. So now we're in this position we need him to be successful. It's high risk but he doesn't seem to lack for confidence in his ability to get the best out of these kind of players. We have the facilities that he says he needs to do this. So it's full steam ahead for the Garner train and there's no disembarking now whether we like it or not.
3. The previous does not change the fact that it still does seem like a big risk that could go horribly wrong, gambling on a manager who has no experience and whose performance so far has been, to be charitable, crap. Seems reasonable if some people are bit skeptical to me but a bit futile because this is clearly the path we have chosen to go all in on at this point. If it comes apart you can say 'told you so' but seems a bit pyrric if we find ourselves bottom of the league at Christmas. So I'm holding on to the idea that a clear firm strategy put in place by a manager who knows his own mind, what he wants to achieve and now has the squad he wants, is going to be successful.
Yep,agreed Irish. We've jumped on the rollercoaster and so are forced to get on with it now. The new Assistant Manager may take over from BG if he still can't produce wins. However uncomfortable a Gashead may feel about BG (understandably)and the more we create a club in his vision,the better chance of success. The emergency pilot can see us home safely,as long as we keep him topped up with 70% proof rum.Sort of. Risky,but we're all on board,doubts need to be put aside and get behind Ben Garner.
|
|
laughinggas
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2,651
Member is Online
|
Post by laughinggas on Jul 18, 2020 13:58:24 GMT
Bamber said 2 wins in 30, Irish then repeats next we know it will be a fact!
|
|
basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
|
Post by basel on Jul 18, 2020 14:06:46 GMT
Bamber said 2 wins in 30, Irish then repeats next we know it will be a fact! 2/20
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,430
|
Post by warehamgas on Jul 18, 2020 14:07:34 GMT
MK Dons went for the new approach when they appointed Dan Micciche as manager,a former England Under 16 manager and highly thought of as a coach. He won 3 games out of 16 in charge as manager, better record than Garner. It didn't work out, M K Dons got relegated with Ed Upson in the team, where is Micciche now, manager of Arsenal Under 15 side. Crawley went for the same kind of option, that didn't work either, it's horses for courses, a seller at Wincanton isn't going to win the Derby Since when have we ever been in the Derby, we are the seller at Wincanton! 😉 UTG!
|
|
|
Post by Bamber Gashead on Jul 18, 2020 14:30:20 GMT
Bamber said 2 wins in 30, Irish then repeats next we know it will be a fact! 2/20 I make it 2 wins in 18 for BG (as opposed to BG who said 2 in 30) with 5 draws and 11 defeats, scoring 11 and conceding 30 goals.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 15:32:01 GMT
I make it 2 wins in 18 for BG (as opposed to BG who said 2 in 30) with 5 draws and 11 defeats, scoring 11 and conceding 30 goals. Just looked at the fixtures on the official site. It's 2 wins from 20 games. Didn't mean to misrepresent what had happened, just couldn't remember.
|
|
Rex
Predictions League
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,287
|
Post by Rex on Jul 18, 2020 20:17:59 GMT
Surely this is why we've brought in Jack Mesure to help out. I think we can agree that BG was a over-whelmed/out of his depth last season with the squad he inherited. Instead of sacking him, we're sticking with him and giving him additional support. And I'll be supporting him. No negativity from me at the moment. My account has not been hacked. He had Coppell, that didn't help. I just think that players aren't interested in endless tactical discussions and theory at this level. Maybe if you are Barca or Citeh, but in L1, just keep your shape, get the ball to your danger players, work hard, don't give the opposition any time on the ball seems to be the ticket. I'm with Bambi, both in desperately hoping to be proved wrong , but utterly unconvinced by what I have seen so far, although I did miss the Sunderland game, which apparently was very good. Lets hope that was the start of something. I tend to agree re the tactics as well. Darrell Clarke's constant tinkering worked very well for a while, and then it stopped working, week after week after week. I thought what we needed then was someone to come in and keep it simple, tell players their positions, tell them who does what in set pieces and tell them if they play well, they keep the shirt. I actually thought Steve Cotterill would be ideal, but Coughlan proved to be the right man at the right time. Still, water under the bridge, here's hoping I am eating my words about Ben Garner ASAP.
|
|
basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
|
Post by basel on Jul 19, 2020 5:50:15 GMT
He had Coppell, that didn't help. I just think that players aren't interested in endless tactical discussions and theory at this level. Maybe if you are Barca or Citeh, but in L1, just keep your shape, get the ball to your danger players, work hard, don't give the opposition any time on the ball seems to be the ticket. I'm with Bambi, both in desperately hoping to be proved wrong , but utterly unconvinced by what I have seen so far, although I did miss the Sunderland game, which apparently very good. Lets hope that was the start of something. I tend to agree re the tactics as well. Darrell Clarke's constant tinkering worked very well for a while, and then it stopped working, week after week after week. I thought what we needed then was someone to come in and keep it simple, tell players their positions, tell them who does what in set pieces and tell them if the play well, they keep the shirt. I actually thought Steve Cotterill would be ideal, but Coughlan proved to be the right man at the right time. Still, water under the bridge, here's hoping I am eating my words about Ben Garner ASAP. As I've posted I have doubts about BG but I'm trying to ignore them and hope the more WAQ let's him have it his way,the better chance we'll 'have a team'. Yep,Sunderland was very good Rex.The JCH goal from open play was maybe our GOTS.
|
|
|
Post by toteend3 on Jul 19, 2020 7:56:05 GMT
I passed on the Sunderland game, partly disillusion and partly covid 19 was in view. I have just watched the highlights from that game for the first time, and Yep that was some goal! Maybe just maybe the ' good times' are just round the corner........... UTG
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
|
Post by eppinggas on Jul 19, 2020 9:06:09 GMT
I make it 2 wins in 18 for BG (as opposed to BG who said 2 in 30) with 5 draws and 11 defeats, scoring 11 and conceding 30 goals. I presume that's just league games then? I always prefer that stat as opposed to the ones that include cup games. Tom Nichols scored in meaningless chek-a-turd trophy games, and in my books - they just don't count. I rest my case.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 10:20:15 GMT
I make it 2 wins in 18 for BG (as opposed to BG who said 2 in 30) with 5 draws and 11 defeats, scoring 11 and conceding 30 goals. I presume that's just league games then? I always prefer that stat as opposed to the ones that include cup games. Tom Nichols scored in meaningless chek-a-turd trophy games, and in my books - they just don't count. I rest my case. Continuing the theme of never saying anything positive. If we only count League games we can forget losing to Stevenage under Garner, the worst of the 91 League teams with a fantastic record in L2 of P 36, W3. Somehow they managed to finish below Macclesfield, that must have taken a big effort.
|
|
|
Post by Bamber Gashead on Jul 19, 2020 16:10:59 GMT
I make it 2 wins in 18 for BG (as opposed to BG who said 2 in 30) with 5 draws and 11 defeats, scoring 11 and conceding 30 goals. I presume that's just league games then? I always prefer that stat as opposed to the ones that include cup games. Tom Nichols scored in meaningless chek-a-turd trophy games, and in my books - they just don't count. I rest my case. No, all games. Unless I've got my facts wrong, Joe Dunne was in charge against Plymouth in the FA Cup and Kevin Maher was in charge against Peterborough. Ben Garner's first match was AFC Wimbledon. It was 2 wins in 15 just counting league games. For the statto's among us here are the managerial figures for all games from Darren Patterson to date. P W D L F-A DP(1) 2 0 0 2 2-5 DP(2) 13 2 2 9 12-30 SC 12 4 3 5 11-13 PB 29 8 6 15 43-56 SN 3 1 1 1 3-4 MM 45 12 12 21 54-74 JW 69 24 21 24 81-82 DC 246 104 56 86 354-297 GC 56 25 18 13 76-60 JD 1 1 0 0 1-0 KM 1 0 1 0 0-0 BG 18 2 5 11 11-30
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 16:30:13 GMT
I presume that's just league games then? I always prefer that stat as opposed to the ones that include cup games. Tom Nichols scored in meaningless chek-a-turd trophy games, and in my books - they just don't count. I rest my case. No, all games. Unless I've got my facts wrong, Joe Dunne was in charge against Plymouth in the FA Cup and Kevin Maher was in charge against Peterborough. Ben Garner's first match was AFC Wimbledon. Yes, fair enough, I had that wrong. I started counting from Ipswich onwards. Thanks for the correction. Fair play.
|
|
basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
|
Post by basel on Jul 19, 2020 16:39:59 GMT
Bamber said 2 wins in 30, Irish then repeats next we know it will be a fact! 2/20 Beg your pardon folks,my 2/20 was an appropriate,that I should of explained. Awful record of results,but let's hope BG has learnt and 'his way' is even clearer to him now.
|
|
|
Post by stevek192 on Jul 20, 2020 8:26:26 GMT
Under DC and GC we knew what we were getting week in week out- DC lots of changes , a fans manager who said what he thought which in his last season was far too much and was like a piece of elastic which was going to snap at some point and my only surprise was how long it took - GC was a different kettle of fish- never a fans favourite even with an exceptional run of results it wasn't that good to watch but the results were satisfying and amazing and yet I always had a feeling that we were "boxing above our weight". So it was on to BG and the problem for me at the time was that this was a scenario that we were not used to and was unlikely to be successful initially. In some ways it mirrored the appointment of Martin Dobson- taking on a squad of experienced players who IMO had peaked at Ipswich and the injury to IMO the best shot stopper in the league was the start of the problems that were to unveil.
You can only go so far without a midfield and with only one player scoring your goals and that is what Ben inherited. There was only one way for him to go and that was downhill- most new Managers come in to a sinking ship where they are fire fighting and expectation is not very high and it is a case of if they fail then really it was the last guys fault but if they succeed they had worked wonders. I would describe our period so far under Ben has been a case of I wasn't surprised at the decline but more at the extent of it. We are now at the point where everything will depend on BGs ability to get the right new players in and his ability to mould those players in with what we have left from last season. Based on results alone under BG we are heading into a relegation season but I don't feel that way - it is a new beginning and hopefully a new era in Bristol Rovers history with pretty well a new team. If I am right there are no players left from our double promotion team and we have no choice other than give BG a clean sheet. UTG
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
|
Post by eppinggas on Jul 20, 2020 8:28:01 GMT
I presume that's just league games then? I always prefer that stat as opposed to the ones that include cup games. Tom Nichols scored in meaningless chek-a-turd trophy games, and in my books - they just don't count. I rest my case. No, all games. Unless I've got my facts wrong, Joe Dunne was in charge against Plymouth in the FA Cup and Kevin Maher was in charge against Peterborough. Ben Garner's first match was AFC Wimbledon. It was 2 wins in 15 just counting league games. For the statto's among us here are the managerial figures for all games from Darren Patterson to date. P W D L F-A DP(1) 2 0 0 2 2-5 DP(2) 13 2 2 9 12-30 SC 12 4 3 5 11-13 33% PB 29 8 6 15 43-56 27.5% SN 3 1 1 1 3-4 33% MM 45 12 12 21 54-74 27% JW 69 24 21 24 81-82 35% DC 246 104 56 86 354-297 42% GC 56 25 18 13 76-60 45% JD 1 1 0 0 1-0 100% KM 1 0 1 0 0-0 0% BG 18 2 5 11 11-30 11% Thanks bamber, I just added the win %... I do like a stat.
|
|