Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 14:09:57 GMT
I think its great news that wael has completely cleared the debt so well done to him. So, if you and your brother both invest £10 into a big square box then you buy your brother's half of that box, has the box now cost nothing or do you look at that box and think about how much you've got invested into it and what your way out is to maximise your return? Remember, this example is a tenner, with Rovers it's counted in millions. Games are being played here, it appears people are wilfully confusing the meaning of the words debt and investment to try to make themselves feel better for some reason. Nothing has changed, apart from ownership and Wael now seems to have some money which is burning a hole in his pocket. I just hope he gets some good people around him so that what he's spending doesn't all get lost.
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Post by swissgas on Jul 21, 2020 15:31:55 GMT
I think its great news that wael has completely cleared the debt so well done to him. So, if you and your brother both invest £10 into a big square box then you buy your brother's half of that box, has the box now cost nothing or do you look at that box and think about how much you've got invested into it and what your way out is to maximise your return? Remember, this example is a tenner, with Rovers it's counted in millions. Games are being played here, it appears people are wilfully confusing the meaning of the words debt and investment to try to make themselves feel better for some reason. Nothing has changed, apart from ownership and Wael now seems to have some money which is burning a hole in his pocket. I just hope he gets some good people around him so that what he's spending doesn't all get lost. It's a bit mystifying that Companies House is still not showing any capitalisation by BRFC 1883 Ltd of the loan owed to Dwane Sports Ltd and the charge in their favour is still registered. Perhaps the other brother was living in his half of the box and won't move out ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 16:04:32 GMT
So, if you and your brother both invest £10 into a big square box then you buy your brother's half of that box, has the box now cost nothing or do you look at that box and think about how much you've got invested into it and what your way out is to maximise your return? Remember, this example is a tenner, with Rovers it's counted in millions. Games are being played here, it appears people are wilfully confusing the meaning of the words debt and investment to try to make themselves feel better for some reason. Nothing has changed, apart from ownership and Wael now seems to have some money which is burning a hole in his pocket. I just hope he gets some good people around him so that what he's spending doesn't all get lost. It's a bit mystifying that Companies House is still not showing any capitalisation by BRFC 1883 Ltd of the loan owed to Dwane Sports Ltd and the charge in their favour is still registered. Perhaps the other brother was living in his half of the box and won't move out ? There's another question, which I guess accounts will show at some point. A figure of £20m is being thrown around, but I don't think that Wael has just put that much in. He already owned some equity and given the trading performance of the company, unless Hani and whoever inherited their Father's equity thought that there was a realistic opportunity for the value of the company to increase or to produce a trading profit, I would have thought that they would have been willing to accept terms to free themselves from ongoing liability?
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Post by swissgas on Jul 21, 2020 16:35:58 GMT
It's a bit mystifying that Companies House is still not showing any capitalisation by BRFC 1883 Ltd of the loan owed to Dwane Sports Ltd and the charge in their favour is still registered. Perhaps the other brother was living in his half of the box and won't move out ? There's another question, which I guess accounts will show at some point. A figure of £20m is being thrown around, but I don't think that Wael has just put that much in. He already owned some equity and given the trading performance of the company, unless Hani and whoever inherited their Father's equity thought that there was a realistic opportunity for the value of the company to increase or to produce a trading profit, I would have thought that they would have been willing to accept terms to free themselves from ongoing liability? He said £ 18.4 million had been capitalised by Dwane Sports and Samer now owned 10%. So if previously they had each owned one third then Wael would have had to pay for Hani's 33.3% and the 23.3% relinquished by Samer which would amount to about £ 10.4 million.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 17:27:05 GMT
There's another question, which I guess accounts will show at some point. A figure of £20m is being thrown around, but I don't think that Wael has just put that much in. He already owned some equity and given the trading performance of the company, unless Hani and whoever inherited their Father's equity thought that there was a realistic opportunity for the value of the company to increase or to produce a trading profit, I would have thought that they would have been willing to accept terms to free themselves from ongoing liability? He said £ 18.4 million had been capitalised by Dwane Sports and Samer now owned 10%. So if previously they had each owned one third then Wael would have had to pay for Hani's 33.3% and the 23.3% relinquished by Samer which would amount to about £ 10.4 million. We'll see what comes out in the wash. That may be what was secured against the stadium, but as mentioned above, with the trading performance, it would take a heck of a pitch on Dragons' Den to convince anybody to come in at 100p per £ of debt. But either way, the £20m being mentioned has just been cut straight in half.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 18:02:44 GMT
Its difficult for some posters on here who have been us telling for years that the game would be up as soon as the debt was more than the stadium value. They desperately try to find ways to put a negative spin on the wael clearing the debt,getting the training ground sorted out,signing players and bringing in a renowned coach. All this despite the coronavirus. Credit where credit is due is a word the negative gang on here have no understanding of.
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Post by swissgas on Jul 21, 2020 18:49:20 GMT
Its difficult for some posters on here who have been us telling for years that the game would be up as soon as the debt was more than the stadium value. They desperately try to find ways to put a negative spin on the wael clearing the debt,getting the training ground sorted out,signing players and bringing in a renowned coach. All this despite the coronavirus. Credit where credit is due is a word the negative gang on here have no understanding of. I'm all for positive spin vertigo but it should be solidly based and this 8th July press release wasn't. "Following the recent Open Letter from Club President, Wael Al Qadi, the Club can confirm that the process of appointing the new Directors and capitalising the debt owed to Dwane Sports has been formally processed on Companies House." If the process was incomplete there was no need to mention Companies House at all so we just have to hope this was simply a case of over eagerness on the part of whoever released the statement and that Companies House will soon show the capitalisation has indeed taken place.. I suspect my appraisal of the current situation is very similar to that of Martyn Starnes who is no doubt working very hard trying to make sure the money being spent will bring success.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 18:59:31 GMT
Its difficult for some posters on here who have been us telling for years that the game would be up as soon as the debt was more than the stadium value. They desperately try to find ways to put a negative spin on the wael clearing the debt,getting the training ground sorted out,signing players and bringing in a renowned coach. All this despite the coronavirus. Credit where credit is due is a word the negative gang on here have no understanding of. If that's aimed at me then please quote a post where I've even mentioned what happens when debt secured against the stadium exceeds the stadium value. As far as I'm aware all we've been able to do is guess what the value of the stadium is anyway. I've tried to explain that the debt situation hasn't really changed, money is just now invested primarily by 1 person rather than by several and, as far as I'm aware, it's no longer secured against the stadium. Not much has changed. Training ground, this appears to be good news, but any fool can spend money, spending it wisely is a lot more difficult, so whilst Wael's commitment seems to have won the admiration of the majority of supporters, he doesn't have a great track record so far and I think we should judge him on results, not intentions. Ref appointments. Every owner hires and fires.
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mjg
Mickey Barrett
Joined: September 2014
Posts: 48
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Post by mjg on Jul 21, 2020 20:32:47 GMT
So far as this club goes, being a sceptic can only be a good thing. I'm nearly 55 and the moments of hope have been few and far etc etc. I'd be confident though that even the most sceptical amongst us, the most hard bitten, world weary, seen it all before mob, are just having the odd moment when we're thinking 'hang on, what if....'. What if this is what it could be? What it just might look like? Whether Companies House records are yet updated or not, whether brothers are at loggerheads. Players that look like decent bets are signing, there's a training ground in full build, something interesting (could be bad or good) is going on with the management and the club's PR is at a new level albeit really early days.
It's a right bugger being a sceptic when you get those whispers in the early hours that it might be different this time, when you get that cool hand on your hot brow that says be calm it's going to be ok. When you get that buzz of hope in an old jaded brain and you just can't shift it.
Could be rock n roll. Probably won't be but it's the could isn't it. The could.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Jul 22, 2020 10:38:55 GMT
It's great that questions are still being asked and we should always try and make the owners accountable for their actions. But right now... I'm enjoying being genuinely optimistic about the season ahead. UTG.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 18:20:07 GMT
Its difficult for some posters on here who have been us telling for years that the game would be up as soon as the debt was more than the stadium value. They desperately try to find ways to put a negative spin on the wael clearing the debt,getting the training ground sorted out,signing players and bringing in a renowned coach. All this despite the coronavirus. Credit where credit is due is a word the negative gang on here have no understanding of. I'm all for positive spin vertigo but it should be solidly based and this 8th July press release wasn't. "Following the recent Open Letter from Club President, Wael Al Qadi, the Club can confirm that the process of appointing the new Directors and capitalising the debt owed to Dwane Sports has been formally processed on Companies House." If the process was incomplete there was no need to mention Companies House at all so we just have to hope this was simply a case of over eagerness on the part of whoever released the statement and that Companies House will soon show the capitalisation has indeed taken place.. I suspect my appraisal of the current situation is very similar to that of Martyn Starnes who is no doubt working very hard trying to make sure the money being spent will bring success. Swiss, Are we aware if there are enough unissued shares for Wael to capitalise his loans or will he have to hold an EGM to call for a rights issue?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 19:19:54 GMT
I'm all for positive spin vertigo but it should be solidly based and this 8th July press release wasn't. "Following the recent Open Letter from Club President, Wael Al Qadi, the Club can confirm that the process of appointing the new Directors and capitalising the debt owed to Dwane Sports has been formally processed on Companies House." If the process was incomplete there was no need to mention Companies House at all so we just have to hope this was simply a case of over eagerness on the part of whoever released the statement and that Companies House will soon show the capitalisation has indeed taken place.. I suspect my appraisal of the current situation is very similar to that of Martyn Starnes who is no doubt working very hard trying to make sure the money being spent will bring success. Swiss, Are we aware if there are enough unissued shares for Wael to capitalise his loans or will he have to hold an EGM to call for a rights issue? I would have thought an EGM when you hold 90%+ of the shares is a bit of a paper exercise...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 19:21:17 GMT
Swiss, Are we aware if there are enough unissued shares for Wael to capitalise his loans or will he have to hold an EGM to call for a rights issue? I would have thought an EGM when you hold 90%+ of the shares is a bit of a paper exercise... Getting it through is but don't existing shareholders reserve the right to take up part of the issue?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 20:15:03 GMT
I would have thought an EGM when you hold 90%+ of the shares is a bit of a paper exercise... Getting it through is but don't existing shareholders reserve the right to take up part of the issue? They do. Unless a waiver of pre emption rights is agreed. Personally I cannot see why anyone would take up their rights.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 20:38:18 GMT
Getting it through is but don't existing shareholders reserve the right to take up part of the issue? They do. Unless a waiver of pre emption rights is agreed. Personally I cannot see why anyone would take up their rights. David Brain would
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 20:55:10 GMT
Getting it through is but don't existing shareholders reserve the right to take up part of the issue? They do. Unless a waiver of pre emption rights is agreed. Personally I cannot see why anyone would take up their rights. Thanks Oldie, hope you are well. We didn't get around to having that beer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 21:29:29 GMT
They do. Unless a waiver of pre emption rights is agreed. Personally I cannot see why anyone would take up their rights. Thanks Oldie, hope you are well. We didn't get around to having that beer. Yes...it's time
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 23, 2020 9:48:11 GMT
Getting it through is but don't existing shareholders reserve the right to take up part of the issue? They do. Unless a waiver of pre emption rights is agreed. Personally I cannot see why anyone would take up their rights. There are pre-emption waivers. Although I don't know if they are limited to the current unallocated ordinary share in the company or if it/they include the creation/issue of new shares. Didn't we have an EGM when Nick did this and created new shares in the company. edit. found the EGM resolution. Not sure (being that is in legalese) if it means that the company can allocate more share for the purpose of equity securities indefinitely, in so much as a pre-emption is passed every year at the AGM Attachments:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 10:59:52 GMT
They do. Unless a waiver of pre emption rights is agreed. Personally I cannot see why anyone would take up their rights. There are pre-emption waivers. Although I don't know if they are limited to the current unallocated ordinary share in the company or if it/they include the creation/issue of new shares. Didn't we have an EGM when Nick did this and created new shares in the company. edit. found the EGM resolution. Not sure (being that is in legalese) if it means that the company can allocate more share for the purpose of equity securities indefinitely, in so much as a pre-emption is passed every year at the AGM Well done Simon, thanks for this.
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