Delsy
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Post by Delsy on May 18, 2020 15:31:24 GMT
You could have Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe, Neymar the whole chabang out there in one go but without a crowd it would be like watching a Saturday afternoon game over on the airport, not that there was anything wrong with watching a Saturday afternoon game over on the airport but for the professional game it is just going to be so.... flat.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 18, 2020 18:19:27 GMT
You could have Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe, Neymar the whole chabang out there in one go but without a crowd it would be like watching a Saturday afternoon game over on the airport, not that there was anything wrong with watching a Saturday afternoon game over on the airport but for the professional game it is just going to be so.... flat. I hear you. But "flat" is better then "nothing", for the time being anyway. I don't think we'll see a ball kicked in anger in League 1 (or 2) til August 2021. Season 2020-2021 may well not happen, and this gives 15 months for the PL/EFL/FA a chance to sort out the league structure. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 18:31:55 GMT
"flat" is better then "nothing" I disagree with Uncle Eppers here, as perhaps does Mrs Eppers. If we're not going to do it properly, then we shouldn't be doing it at all. |
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Post by laughinggas on May 18, 2020 19:04:29 GMT
You could have Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappe, Neymar the whole chabang out there in one go but without a crowd it would be like watching a Saturday afternoon game over on the airport, not that there was anything wrong with watching a Saturday afternoon game over on the airport but for the professional game it is just going to be so.... flat. I hear you. But "flat" is better then "nothing", for the time being anyway. I don't think we'll see a ball kicked in anger in League 1 (or 2) til August 2021. Season 2020-2021 may well not happen, and this gives 15 months for the PL/EFL/FA a chance to sort out the league structure. Will Prem go for a behind closed doors start to next season? Maybe the big clubs will do the maths a g go for a Euro super league. More tv money to the few. |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 19, 2020 7:52:39 GMT
"flat" is better then "nothing" I disagree with Uncle Eppers here, as perhaps does Mrs Eppers. If we're not going to do it properly, then we shouldn't be doing it at all. No problems. Mrs Epping is an Arsenal supporter, so she's used to watching football in near silence. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 19, 2020 12:52:02 GMT
I hear you. But "flat" is better then "nothing", for the time being anyway. I don't think we'll see a ball kicked in anger in League 1 (or 2) til August 2021. Season 2020-2021 may well not happen, and this gives 15 months for the PL/EFL/FA a chance to sort out the league structure. Will Prem go for a behind closed doors start to next season? Maybe the big clubs will do the maths a g go for a Euro super league. More tv money to the few. I don't think that would happen because the whole point of any kind of Euro Super League would be to establish permanent global supremacy as exists for the US sports leagues. So I don't think they'd want to launch something like that as a damp squib. It'll probably raise it's head in the mid-term if football is slow bouncing back from this though. I see PL2 as a much bigger threat because you can see Championship clubs making the case for that as a 'reasonable' response to the challenges they face.
It's interesting how this is breaking down across different sports. Originally there were stories about how grassroots sport's organisations were going to be decimated but they don't necessarily have big spending commitments and provided they get support from authorities can be mothballed quite easily. Then there were stories about how sport's big spenders were going to be in a lot of trouble but they are in a position of having TV income to justify their quick return and have the capacity to spend the substantial money it takes to get up and running again while still in crisis - provided that everything comes up to speed fairly quickly again once 'normality' returns they should be able to see this out. So ultimately it seems like it is those clubs/organisations in the middle who are going to be most screwed becuase they still have sizeable spending commitments but don't have significant external income beyond gate money to sustain them and can't be easily mothballed. This seems a fairly consistent pattern across all sports. It could be a perfect storm for a club like Rovers unfortunately.
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Post by lostinspace on May 20, 2020 17:13:05 GMT
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 21, 2020 8:42:42 GMT
Will Prem go for a behind closed doors start to next season? Maybe the big clubs will do the maths a g go for a Euro super league. More tv money to the few. I don't think that would happen because the whole point of any kind of Euro Super League would be to establish permanent global supremacy as exists for the US sports leagues. So I don't think they'd want to launch something like that as a damp squib. It'll probably raise it's head in the mid-term if football is slow bouncing back from this though. I see PL2 as a much bigger threat because you can see Championship clubs making the case for that as a 'reasonable' response to the challenges they face.
It's interesting how this is breaking down across different sports. Originally there were stories about how grassroots sport's organisations were going to be decimated but they don't necessarily have big spending commitments and provided they get support from authorities can be mothballed quite easily. Then there were stories about how sport's big spenders were going to be in a lot of trouble but they are in a position of having TV income to justify their quick return and have the capacity to spend the substantial money it takes to get up and running again while still in crisis - provided that everything comes up to speed fairly quickly again once 'normality' returns they should be able to see this out. So ultimately it seems like it is those clubs/organisations in the middle who are going to be most screwed becuase they still have sizeable spending commitments but don't have significant external income beyond gate money to sustain them and can't be easily mothballed. This seems a fairly consistent pattern across all sports. It could be a perfect storm for a club like Rovers unfortunately.
Yup, sounds a reasonable hypothesis. We'll get screwed. But fear not - the "big" Clubs in League 1 have enough money to get through this, so that's all good then. |
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Post by eppinggas on May 24, 2020 7:43:05 GMT
I can't bear to watch TV or to hear radio. The dying is the most important news. But there's no hope in the remainder. I don't want 'the new normal'. I don't want 'social distancing'. I don't want to live online or on screen. I'm separating children from grandparents. And I hate it all. So football. Professional football is a spectator sport. It is played in front of grandstands. It is still played in front of terraces. The fuller both are, the better. Television football was killing football. Now that's all we will get. It's over. I can no longer see how Rovers exist. It's just one more thing to be sad about. Chin (or beak) up. But some interesting points... I'm genuinely excited about watching the Union Berlin / Bayern Munich game today. German football has led the way in Europe re: CV-19, but not without some criticism. The German 'ultras' have complained bitterly about football behind closed doors (BCD). The main thing that drew me towards Union in the first place was the unbelievable atmosphere at the stadium. Take that away, and what have you got? Also to a degree, home advantage is taken away. Union get fired up by the passion of the crowd, and kick everything that moves - they have officially committed the most fouls in the Bundesliga. Get in. en.as.com/resultados/futbol/alemania/2019_2020/ranking/equipos/faltas_cometidas/ and their team of relatively lowly paid, less technically gifted, harder working players eke out results against superior opposition. Behind closed doors at the Stadion an der Alten Forsterei? How will that pan out? I'm just hoping they won't get smashed by Bayern BCD. KO 5pm. EISERN UNION! (& UTG). Maybe football behind closed doors isn't such a great idea after all. Union 0 Bayern 2 Hertha 4 Union 0 Union comprehensively outplayed in both games. No passion to fire them up. All very flat. If I was a Hertha fan I probably would be saying what a great product it is though... Conclusion: Looks like the technically better sides have a clearer advantage when you take away supporters. And it's a bit crap to watch. |
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Post by fatherjackhackett on May 24, 2020 11:59:00 GMT
I should be as happy as a pig in s**t that Hertha beat the hipsters 4-0
But... without fans, it’s a bit duff isn’t it?
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Post by eppinggas on May 24, 2020 12:53:09 GMT
I should be as happy as a pig in s*** that Hertha beat the hipsters 4-0 But... without fans, it’s a bit duff isn’t it? Union home games just won't be the same. Not a big difference at Hertha's all-seater, sterile bowl.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 18:38:33 GMT
AC Milan and Inter Milan's San Siro 'can be demolished' for new 60,000 stadium, says Italy's heritage authority - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52739143Weird. San Siro's an iconic 80,000 seater without a running track between the crowds and the players. So it's being knocked down to make way for something... smaller. I don't get it. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 30, 2020 0:57:34 GMT
Chin (or beak) up. But some interesting points... I'm genuinely excited about watching the Union Berlin / Bayern Munich game today. German football has led the way in Europe re: CV-19, but not without some criticism. The German 'ultras' have complained bitterly about football behind closed doors (BCD). The main thing that drew me towards Union in the first place was the unbelievable atmosphere at the stadium. Take that away, and what have you got? Also to a degree, home advantage is taken away. Union get fired up by the passion of the crowd, and kick everything that moves - they have officially committed the most fouls in the Bundesliga. Get in. en.as.com/resultados/futbol/alemania/2019_2020/ranking/equipos/faltas_cometidas/ and their team of relatively lowly paid, less technically gifted, harder working players eke out results against superior opposition. Behind closed doors at the Stadion an der Alten Forsterei? How will that pan out? I'm just hoping they won't get smashed by Bayern BCD. KO 5pm. EISERN UNION! (& UTG). Maybe football behind closed doors isn't such a great idea after all. Union 0 Bayern 2 Hertha 4 Union 0 Union comprehensively outplayed in both games. No passion to fire them up. All very flat. If I was a Hertha fan I probably would be saying what a great product it is though... Conclusion: Looks like the technically better sides have a clearer advantage when you take away supporters. And it's a bit crap to watch. Cards on the table - I have Hertha sympathies. I had something of a formative experience spending a month in Berlin in the early 2000s and have semi-followed Hertha ever since. These days that makes me an anti-football hipster I think! Although to be fair to Hertha they also have interesting aspects to their history such as fans from East Berlin going up to the wall and trying to listen to the crowd to follow what was going on. Probably a lot of mythology about that but it's often cited as part of the history of the City.
I've quite enjoyed the German football thing. I'm sure the people who ran the league must have been mighty pissed off that Bayern pretty mopped up the Championship this week. But the Bundesligsa is pretty fun to watch even without fans.
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Post by eppinggas on May 30, 2020 8:32:24 GMT
Maybe football behind closed doors isn't such a great idea after all. Union 0 Bayern 2 Hertha 4 Union 0 Union comprehensively outplayed in both games. No passion to fire them up. All very flat. If I was a Hertha fan I probably would be saying what a great product it is though... Conclusion: Looks like the technically better sides have a clearer advantage when you take away supporters. And it's a bit crap to watch. Cards on the table - I have Hertha sympathies. I had something of a formative experience spending a month in Berlin in the early 2000s and have semi-followed Hertha ever since. These days that makes me an anti-football hipster I think! Although to be fair to Hertha they also have interesting aspects to their history such as fans from East Berlin going up to the wall and trying to listen to the crowd to follow what was going on. Probably a lot of mythology about that but it's often cited as part of the history of the City.
I've quite enjoyed the German football thing. I'm sure the people who ran the league must have been mighty pissed off that Bayern pretty mopped up the Championship this week. But the Bundesligsa is pretty fun to watch even without fans.
I think there is generally a 'friendly' rivalry between Hertha and Union. The former have always had the upper hand - more money, a shiny 74,000 all-seater stadium and a broader fan-base. Union play in a ground they built themselves with the help of 2,300 voluntary labour. 22,000 capacity with 18,400 of terracing that goes round 3 sides of the ground. Rough and ready. The friendly nature of the rivalry was pushed a bit in the first ever Bundesliga Derby back in November... but what an atmosphere. Football without crowds eh? (As for me being a 'hipster'... as anyone knows me will testify... I must be the very anti-thesis of a hipster. I had never even heard of Union until I stumbled into their ground with a day to kill ahead of Radiohead playing at Lollapalooza. Hang on, that makes me sound like an archetypal hipster...) |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 30, 2020 10:55:54 GMT
Cards on the table - I have Hertha sympathies. I had something of a formative experience spending a month in Berlin in the early 2000s and have semi-followed Hertha ever since. These days that makes me an anti-football hipster I think! Although to be fair to Hertha they also have interesting aspects to their history such as fans from East Berlin going up to the wall and trying to listen to the crowd to follow what was going on. Probably a lot of mythology about that but it's often cited as part of the history of the City.
I've quite enjoyed the German football thing. I'm sure the people who ran the league must have been mighty pissed off that Bayern pretty mopped up the Championship this week. But the Bundesligsa is pretty fun to watch even without fans.
I think there is generally a 'friendly' rivalry between Hertha and Union. The former have always had the upper hand - more money, a shiny 74,000 all-seater stadium and a broader fan-base. Union play in a ground they built themselves with the help of 2,300 voluntary labour. 22,000 capacity with 18,400 of terracing that goes round 3 sides of the ground. Rough and ready. The friendly nature of the rivalry was pushed a bit in the first ever Bundesliga Derby back in November... but what an atmosphere. Football without crowds eh? (As for me being a 'hipster'... as anyone knows me will testify... I must be the very anti-thesis of a hipster. I had never even heard of Union until I stumbled into their ground with a day to kill ahead of Radiohead playing at Lollapalooza. Hang on, that makes me sound like an archetypal hipster...) The thing about Hertha is it's hard to cast them as the 'big, bad bullies' because they've been so underwhelming. So it doesn't quite fit the narrative of plucky underdogs vs big City bullies. They are one of the great underachievers of European Football really. Forever on the verge of greatness only to be plunged back into mediocrity. They're like Spurs pre the arrival of Harry Redknapp! It would have been a different business if had been 1860 Munchen that had received this boost as an alternative club etc. Hard to look at Hertha with anything other than pity and comedy value!
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 7, 2020 15:50:42 GMT
I think there is generally a 'friendly' rivalry between Hertha and Union. The former have always had the upper hand - more money, a shiny 74,000 all-seater stadium and a broader fan-base. Union play in a ground they built themselves with the help of 2,300 voluntary labour. 22,000 capacity with 18,400 of terracing that goes round 3 sides of the ground. Rough and ready. The friendly nature of the rivalry was pushed a bit in the first ever Bundesliga Derby back in November... but what an atmosphere. Football without crowds eh? (As for me being a 'hipster'... as anyone knows me will testify... I must be the very anti-thesis of a hipster. I had never even heard of Union until I stumbled into their ground with a day to kill ahead of Radiohead playing at Lollapalooza. Hang on, that makes me sound like an archetypal hipster...) The thing about Hertha is it's hard to cast them as the 'big, bad bullies' because they've been so underwhelming. So it doesn't quite fit the narrative of plucky underdogs vs big City bullies. They are one of the great underachievers of European Football really. Forever on the verge of greatness only to be plunged back into mediocrity. They're like Spurs pre the arrival of Harry Redknapp! It would have been a different business if had been 1860 Munchen that had received this boost as an alternative club etc. Hard to look at Hertha with anything other than pity and comedy value!
Football behind closed doors update. Union 1 Schalke 1. Schalke were bloody lucky to score with effectively their only shot on target. Union should have gone in at HT at least 3 goals to the good. Anyhow... there was a bit of noise from somewhere, maybe the subs/medical staff were having a bit of a sing song. I understand when the PL resumes it will have 'sound effects'? Footy on TV behind closed doors is... a bit pants. But it's better than nothing and I still enjoyed this afternoons German football. Eisern Union! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 15:52:33 GMT
The thing about Hertha is it's hard to cast them as the 'big, bad bullies' because they've been so underwhelming. So it doesn't quite fit the narrative of plucky underdogs vs big City bullies. They are one of the great underachievers of European Football really. Forever on the verge of greatness only to be plunged back into mediocrity. They're like Spurs pre the arrival of Harry Redknapp! It would have been a different business if had been 1860 Munchen that had received this boost as an alternative club etc. Hard to look at Hertha with anything other than pity and comedy value!
Football behind closed doors update. Union 1 Schalke 1. Schalke were bloody lucky to score with effectively their only shot on target. Union should have gone in at HT at least 3 goals to the good. Anyhow... there was a bit of noise from somewhere, maybe the subs/medical staff were having a bit of a sing song. I understand when the PL resumes it will have 'sound effects'? Footy on TV behind closed doors is... a bit pants. But it's better than nothing and I still enjoyed this afternoons German football. Eisern Union! Splitter |
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 7, 2020 15:54:01 GMT
Football behind closed doors update. Union 1 Schalke 1. Schalke were bloody lucky to score with effectively their only shot on target. Union should have gone in at HT at least 3 goals to the good. Anyhow... there was a bit of noise from somewhere, maybe the subs/medical staff were having a bit of a sing song. I understand when the PL resumes it will have 'sound effects'? Footy on TV behind closed doors is... a bit pants. But it's better than nothing and I still enjoyed this afternoons German football. Eisern Union! Splitter Guilty as charged. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 15:56:08 GMT
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 7, 2020 18:27:56 GMT
The thing about Hertha is it's hard to cast them as the 'big, bad bullies' because they've been so underwhelming. So it doesn't quite fit the narrative of plucky underdogs vs big City bullies. They are one of the great underachievers of European Football really. Forever on the verge of greatness only to be plunged back into mediocrity. They're like Spurs pre the arrival of Harry Redknapp! It would have been a different business if had been 1860 Munchen that had received this boost as an alternative club etc. Hard to look at Hertha with anything other than pity and comedy value!
Football behind closed doors update. Union 1 Schalke 1. Schalke were bloody lucky to score with effectively their only shot on target. Union should have gone in at HT at least 3 goals to the good. Anyhow... there was a bit of noise from somewhere, maybe the subs/medical staff were having a bit of a sing song. I understand when the PL resumes it will have 'sound effects'? Footy on TV behind closed doors is... a bit pants. But it's better than nothing and I still enjoyed this afternoons German football. Eisern Union! Yeah that was quite a big point there for Union. One more win should see them safe now. Should have won though. It's interesting that the trend of away team winning shows little sign of easing up. That's definitely something to watch out for when the Prem comes back. If we go another season without fans I wonder if teams will try some tricks to increase levels of home advantage - letting the grass grow or putting in minimum/maximum pitch dimensions.
I thought the piped in atmosphere thing would be complete nonense but I have to be honest and say that the game I enjoyed most was Dortmund v Bayern because watched a US broadcast of it that did exactly that. It was a bit like a computer game with the crowd noises responsive to the action. It was obviously nothing like the real thing but I'm a bit embarrassed to admint that it definitely improved my experience of the game. I obviously have some kind of pavlov's dog reaction to crowd noise. It clearly felt real to me on some level despite constantly telling myself that it clearly wasn't. Maybe that wears off in time and it comes predicatble. A weird experience but I'd be lying if I was that I didn't prefer it to the eerie silence.
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