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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 19:59:17 GMT
Not interested.
You didn't even acknowledge Thomas More's crimes against humanity, so why should anybody care when you try to use some Catholic blowhard's waffle as evidence.
You do realise that to hold that position, Archbishop Wilton D. Gregory has to be a homophobe, and oppose sex within same sex relationships don't you? It's punishable by an eternity in Hell. Another thing learned. I ought to start charging you for these daily lessons.
If you want a debate about whether the Catholic Church, is a force for good in the world, I'll take the side saying that historically it hasn't been, and still today that remains the case, you can try to argue the opposite case.
Bring it on.
It'll be a bloodbath for the institution, and at the end of it the result will be what it's been with every single topic you've tried to discuss, you'll lose.
Come on, you want to use a representative of the Church to support your cause, so let's go, let's test the credibility of the institution, all the way to it's highest office.
Yet another Oldie fail.
Next.
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Post by swissgas on Jun 2, 2020 20:48:45 GMT
If it carries on like this they'll be burning effigies of Catholics by November 5th.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 21:19:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 21:36:02 GMT
You are the only one denying anything.
We accept the footage you have posted and trust that it's not historic or being used out of context.
You deny every single piece of evidence put forward, because it challenges what you are saying.
The odd thing is, I thought that was the purpose of debate.
Swiss.
The Thomas More reference is a good one, Oldie thinks that historical wrongdoing is a good reason to take to the streets to make your feelings known, and if it leads to violence, then just blame the Police, but he won't condemn More, despite him being a bloodthirsty animal with a particular taste for burning people alive. I suspect that Oldie is too poorly read and lacking in education to even know what Exodus 21 in the Christian Bible is.
He won't read it, but if he did I promise you, he would never, ever, use the words of anybody from any Christian denomination to support an argument again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 21:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 21:49:50 GMT
If you don't subscribe
The grim racial inequalities behind America’s protests Profound economic, health and judicial disparities help explain the fury over George Floyd’s death
Jun 3rd 2020 ON THE EIGHTH day of protests against the killing of George Floyd, Donald Trump boasted about his record on reducing black poverty and unemployment and passing criminal-justice reform. “My Admin”, he tweeted, “has done more for the Black Community than any president since Abraham Lincoln.” Is that true? Are African-Americans better off under Mr Trump, and what does that have to do with the protests?
According to the Census Bureau, African-Americans earn barely three-fifths as much as non-Hispanic whites. In 2018 average black household income was $41,400, compared with $70,600 for whites. That gap is wide. In Britain, where race relations can also be tense, blacks earn 90% as much as whites. The American gap is narrower than it was in 1970, when African-Americans earned only half as much as whites. But all the improvement happened between 1970 and 2000, and since then things have worsened again. The black income gap has been eased somewhat by post-covid federal spending increases. But it may soon yawn wider because African-Americans have many of the low- or unskilled jobs that could be most vulnerable to a coronavirus recession.
Income numbers understate the real economic disparities because they only describe people who are in work. According to a study by Patrick Bayer of Duke University and Kerwin Charles of the University of Chicago, a stunning 35% of young black men are unemployed or out of the workforce altogether, twice the share of whites. This huge number seems to be connected with the high incarceration rates of African-Americans: besides those in jail, many have given up looking for work because employers will not offer jobs to former felons. Hence the judicial disparities at the heart of the protests over Mr Floyd also reinforce income and job inequalities.
The wealth gap between blacks and whites is even wider than the income gap. According to a survey by the Federal Reserve Board in 2017, the median net worth of African-Americans was only a tenth that of non-Hispanic whites: $17,600, compared with $171,000. The gap is the same as it was in 1990. This permeates the everyday financial experience of African-American households. Twice as many blacks as whites have zero or negative net worth (ie, debts larger than assets); twice as many have been denied credit or made late payments in the past 60 days; more than twice as many say they cannot pay all their bills in a typical month; only 43% say they can borrow $3,000 in an emergency from family or friends, compared with 71% of whites. Financially, many more African-Americans than whites are living near the edge, one pay-cheque from disaster.
Covid-19 has been a catastrophe, and African-Americans have been hardest hit by it. Black and Hispanic New Yorkers are twice as likely to die of covid-19 as whites; black Chicagoans, five times more likely. This is partly because they are heavily represented in the jobs that have kept going throughout the epidemic (nursing, delivery drivers); partly because they are much more likely than whites to have no health insurance (12.2% uninsured against 7.8% in 2018); and most of all because they have more of the chronic health problems that make people vulnerable to the disease. According to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, African-Americans aged 18 to 49 are twice as likely to die from heart disease as whites, 50% more likely to have high blood pressure and almost twice as likely to have diabetes.
In the midst of the protests, Barack Obama argued that addressing the problem of unequal justice before the law was a first step towards wider social change. There is evidence both of judicial inequality and of a link between that and economic status. According to the Bureau of Justice, the incarceration rate per person was six times higher in 2016 for blacks than it was for whites (and that, amazingly, was an improvement: in 2006, it had been seven times higher). African-Americans, who often live in poor, crime-ridden areas, do commit more crimes per person than whites—but not six times more.
ADVERTISING
Ads by Teads
A study by researchers at the Universities of Michigan and British Columbia found that blacks and Hispanics get longer sentences for the same crimes. Another study argued that this is because judges do not think blacks can pay a fine instead of going to jail and fear that, if they were released, they could not get a job and would revert to criminality. In other words, poverty and joblessness make sentencing practices harsher for blacks, and those practices make it harder for blacks to get a job.
It is hardly surprising that so many protesters believe African-Americans are not equal before the law, not equal in terms of income and jobs, and not equal in terms of health. And their condition has improved little, if at all, under Mr Trump. As George W. Bush put it, on the same day that his Republican successor as president was tweeting his boasts: “It is time for America to examine our tragic failures.”
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 22:46:13 GMT
If you don't subscribe The grim racial inequalities behind America’s protests Profound economic, health and judicial disparities help explain the fury over George Floyd’s death Jun 3rd 2020 ON THE EIGHTH day of protests against the killing of George Floyd, Donald Trump boasted about his record on reducing black poverty and unemployment and passing criminal-justice reform. “My Admin”, he tweeted, “has done more for the Black Community than any president since Abraham Lincoln.” Is that true? Are African-Americans better off under Mr Trump, and what does that have to do with the protests? According to the Census Bureau, African-Americans earn barely three-fifths as much as non-Hispanic whites. In 2018 average black household income was $41,400, compared with $70,600 for whites. That gap is wide. In Britain, where race relations can also be tense, blacks earn 90% as much as whites. The American gap is narrower than it was in 1970, when African-Americans earned only half as much as whites. But all the improvement happened between 1970 and 2000, and since then things have worsened again. The black income gap has been eased somewhat by post-covid federal spending increases. But it may soon yawn wider because African-Americans have many of the low- or unskilled jobs that could be most vulnerable to a coronavirus recession. Income numbers understate the real economic disparities because they only describe people who are in work. According to a study by Patrick Bayer of Duke University and Kerwin Charles of the University of Chicago, a stunning 35% of young black men are unemployed or out of the workforce altogether, twice the share of whites. This huge number seems to be connected with the high incarceration rates of African-Americans: besides those in jail, many have given up looking for work because employers will not offer jobs to former felons. Hence the judicial disparities at the heart of the protests over Mr Floyd also reinforce income and job inequalities. The wealth gap between blacks and whites is even wider than the income gap. According to a survey by the Federal Reserve Board in 2017, the median net worth of African-Americans was only a tenth that of non-Hispanic whites: $17,600, compared with $171,000. The gap is the same as it was in 1990. This permeates the everyday financial experience of African-American households. Twice as many blacks as whites have zero or negative net worth (ie, debts larger than assets); twice as many have been denied credit or made late payments in the past 60 days; more than twice as many say they cannot pay all their bills in a typical month; only 43% say they can borrow $3,000 in an emergency from family or friends, compared with 71% of whites. Financially, many more African-Americans than whites are living near the edge, one pay-cheque from disaster. Covid-19 has been a catastrophe, and African-Americans have been hardest hit by it. Black and Hispanic New Yorkers are twice as likely to die of covid-19 as whites; black Chicagoans, five times more likely. This is partly because they are heavily represented in the jobs that have kept going throughout the epidemic (nursing, delivery drivers); partly because they are much more likely than whites to have no health insurance (12.2% uninsured against 7.8% in 2018); and most of all because they have more of the chronic health problems that make people vulnerable to the disease. According to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, African-Americans aged 18 to 49 are twice as likely to die from heart disease as whites, 50% more likely to have high blood pressure and almost twice as likely to have diabetes. In the midst of the protests, Barack Obama argued that addressing the problem of unequal justice before the law was a first step towards wider social change. There is evidence both of judicial inequality and of a link between that and economic status. According to the Bureau of Justice, the incarceration rate per person was six times higher in 2016 for blacks than it was for whites (and that, amazingly, was an improvement: in 2006, it had been seven times higher). African-Americans, who often live in poor, crime-ridden areas, do commit more crimes per person than whites—but not six times more. ADVERTISING Ads by Teads A study by researchers at the Universities of Michigan and British Columbia found that blacks and Hispanics get longer sentences for the same crimes. Another study argued that this is because judges do not think blacks can pay a fine instead of going to jail and fear that, if they were released, they could not get a job and would revert to criminality. In other words, poverty and joblessness make sentencing practices harsher for blacks, and those practices make it harder for blacks to get a job. It is hardly surprising that so many protesters believe African-Americans are not equal before the law, not equal in terms of income and jobs, and not equal in terms of health. And their condition has improved little, if at all, under Mr Trump. As George W. Bush put it, on the same day that his Republican successor as president was tweeting his boasts: “It is time for America to examine our tragic failures.” Race relations in Britain are tense? Are they? Of course there are always a few nut jobs out there, but most of us have grown up and beyond giving a flying frig about skin colour and have worked out that we are all part of the same race. It's your side of the argument that won't let go of things and insists on fuelling the fire. Now, you've actually got some half decent people here, and I've read some of the work in the past, so here's a quote from a paper by one of them, obviously you wouldn't quote anybody without knowing their work, so you have 2 questions; 1. Who wrote this, and, 2. Can you now accept, as it's your own source saying it, that completing your education (post high school) is a huge factor in having a successful life in America? It honestly shouldn't be this hard, but I think we may have the first signs of progress.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 9:16:21 GMT
Welcome to reality. The 2 biggest factors there that are affecting people? Not consequences, causal factors. You've never conceded a point yet, so I'm not holding my breath, but this categorically proves you wrong, your own link. You've just demonstrated my arguments for me. Now, go do some more research, look at where white people are when they don't complete their education and come from a single parent family. Now, if your side of the argument would stop peddling hate and division and give people some hope, perhaps we could move on and work on these problems. But you won't.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 10:46:17 GMT
Ummmmm
So there is profound racial prejudice in the States, which was my original contention, which you and Swiss have been denying?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 13:18:03 GMT
Ummmmm So there is profound racial prejudice in the States, which was my original contention, which you and Swiss have been denying? Good God. Are you stupid, or just pretending to be stupid! What it actually is is that you are wrong, and like a 5 year old you won't admit it. What is the matter with you! One more time, for the hard of understanding; A white person from a single parent family who does not complete their education does just as badly as a black person with that same life journey. That's not prejudice, it's a social issue. If your side of the debate would just back off and let us, the wealth creators, the job creators, the people who give opportunities, get on with it, the playing field would level, but then you wouldn't have a dragon to fight. But you create the dragon then want to be the hero for fighting it. Problem is, you are destroying people's lives playing your game. You Sir, are a moron and a danger to society.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 13:25:19 GMT
Ummmmm So there is profound racial prejudice in the States, which was my original contention, which you and Swiss have been denying? Good God. Are you stupid, or just pretending to be stupid! What it actually is is that you are wrong, and like a 5 year old you won't admit it. What is the matter with you! One more time, for the hard of understanding; A white person from a single parent family who does not complete their education does just as badly as a black person with that same life journey. That's not prejudice, it's a social issue. If your side of the debate would just back off and let us, the wealth creators, the job creators, the people who give opportunities, get on with it, the playing field would level, but then you wouldn't have a dragon to fight. But you create the dragon then want to be the hero for fighting it. Problem is, you are destroying people's lives playing your game. You Sir, are a moron and a danger to society. Ha ha So the Economist got it completely wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 13:56:20 GMT
Good God. Are you stupid, or just pretending to be stupid! What it actually is is that you are wrong, and like a 5 year old you won't admit it. What is the matter with you! One more time, for the hard of understanding; A white person from a single parent family who does not complete their education does just as badly as a black person with that same life journey. That's not prejudice, it's a social issue. If your side of the debate would just back off and let us, the wealth creators, the job creators, the people who give opportunities, get on with it, the playing field would level, but then you wouldn't have a dragon to fight. But you create the dragon then want to be the hero for fighting it. Problem is, you are destroying people's lives playing your game. You Sir, are a moron and a danger to society. Ha ha So the Economist got it completely wrong? This is why I've come to the conclusion that you are rather dim. The Economist confirmed everything that I've been telling you. The small quote from your own expert confirmed what I've been telling you. Had you of read the work you would understand, but you didn't, so you don't. It's you against the entire world sunshine. Any apology for using a homophobe to support your argument?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 14:25:00 GMT
Ha ha So the Economist got it completely wrong? This is why I've come to the conclusion that you are rather dim. The Economist confirmed everything that I've been telling you. The small quote from your own expert confirmed what I've been telling you. Had you of read the work you would understand, but you didn't, so you don't. It's you against the entire world sunshine. Any apology for using a homophobe to support your argument? And there you go. It will be good to just leave your comments hanging there, in public. Ta ta
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 14:37:20 GMT
This is why I've come to the conclusion that you are rather dim. The Economist confirmed everything that I've been telling you. The small quote from your own expert confirmed what I've been telling you. Had you of read the work you would understand, but you didn't, so you don't. It's you against the entire world sunshine. Any apology for using a homophobe to support your argument? And there you go. It will be good to just leave your comments hanging there, in public. Ta ta You failed to defend a single point, and used someone who believes that physical expression of love within a same sex relationship will be punished by an eternity in hell to support your argument. What would you have said of me had I of called upon anybody who spoke out against the rights of same sex couples to support any argument I was proposing? Utterly disgusting. The fact that you won't apologise sits there and speaks volumes about you. Quite sickening. And you claim to be the left of the debate, the social liberal. You are utterly deluded.
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Post by toteend3 on Jun 4, 2020 18:31:59 GMT
Story came out a few days ago. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52513218If the women's game doesn't generate as much interest/income as the men's, surely they get paid less accordingly. The quality is lower (not by much, apart from the goal-keeping). I fundamentally do not understand the argument. Maybe in North Korea they might take a look at it. Surely the last place on earth to consider it would be free-market, profit driven, US sport. If the women's game did miraculously generate double the revenue of the men's game - then absolutely, pay them twice as much as the men. No problem with that whatsoever. So is there any sport where the women's game generate an equal amount of interest/income as the men's? Where is the quality on a par with the men's game? I can only think of (maybe) tennis. And because women play best of 3 rather than best of 5, they should be paid less accordingly. Ladies competing in Sports such as High and Long Jump, Hockey, Pole Vault, Softball, Netball, Running, Diving, Swimming, Beach Volleyball, Gymnastics................The list is endless. All would be watched by both men and women Why should this be the case, but for completely different reasons? Woops - Silly me!- Still at least it Broke up the 'Mork and Mindy show'' and thankfully we are back to the original tread - The answer is Yes there are fringe sports that generate not just equal, but a hell of a lot more amount of interest (albeit not income). Woman will watch to cheer on their gender and men will watch and to appreciate the female form.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 21:18:37 GMT
Ladies competing in Sports such as High and Long Jump, Hockey, Pole Vault, Softball, Netball, Running, Diving, Swimming, Beach Volleyball, Gymnastics................The list is endless. All would be watched by both men and women Why should this be the case, but for completely different reasons? Woops - Silly me!- Still at least it Broke up the 'Mork and Mindy show'' and thankfully we are back to the original tread - The answer is Yes there are fringe sports that generate not just equal, but a hell of a lot more amount of interest (albeit not income). Woman will watch to cheer on their gender and men will watch and to appreciate the female form..... 😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 23:43:06 GMT
foolly is an interesting thinker and wit. For a neo-conservative, he's worth reading. Not on this thread, obviously. Here he's a pernicious bore, and lazy oaf. But elsewhere on the Guzzler, he's alright. The willy waving here is beneath him. Don't judge him on this demeaning nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 4:53:36 GMT
foolly is an interesting thinker and wit. For a neo-conservative, he's worth reading. Not on this thread, obviously. Here he's a pernicious bore, and lazy oaf. But elsewhere on the Guzzler, he's alright. The willy waving here is beneath him. Don't judge him on this demeaning nonsense. 😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 9:11:57 GMT
foolly is an interesting thinker and wit. For a neo-conservative, he's worth reading. Not on this thread, obviously. Here he's a pernicious bore, and lazy oaf. But elsewhere on the Guzzler, he's alright. The willy waving here is beneath him. Don't judge him on this demeaning nonsense. I think you are waffling about calling Oldie out for being a hypocrite, not understanding issues, being a pre-suppositionalist and continually failing to look at what people are giving to support their opinion whilst posting his own supporting material, presumably because he thinks people should take the effort to investigate it, which I afforded him the courtesy of doing. I suspect that you also don't like the statement of fact about the Catholic Church. Sorry about that, but I'm not responsible for their behaviour. You are aware that it is their position that homosexuality is a sin? This isn't up for negotiation, it's punishable by an eternity in Hell. At least they are close enough to being Biblical literalists not to have adopted the version of Hell created in the mind of Dante Alighieri but still regarded as real by other denominations. For them Hell is just an eternity of separation from their God, well, at least they have that right. Now, how about you do what you always tell others to do, address the argument not the person (I could actually give you a lesson on what an ad-hominem is here, but we'll save that for another time, as you've used the term incorrectly in the past) tell me what I have wrong? I'm totally confident in everything that I've written. The problem is, you need to go beyond the news headlines to find the facts, but even Oldie's own star witness agrees. The really funny thing is, he didn't realise it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 11:17:28 GMT
Yeah Shoveler Yeah...(I think)
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