Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 9:02:30 GMT
I think, contrary to our friend on the rather rabid right, I would not choose to not read both sides of an argument.But hey, it's an underlying characteristic. In this particular topic, I have to be honest I have not let it concern me too much. There is so much to contend with in this world that a little covered pay dispute over sport in America hardly causes my attention to rise above 0.1. In the greater scheme of things though those who would deny misogyny as being rampant, although arguably less so in the last 20 years, must be just a tad blind. Now that has applied to remuneration in whatever field the female chooses to work in. In this particular case my overall feeling is that the women involved have demeaned themselves by demanding to be part of pretty nauseating effort and reward system that is American Sports. There is never much talk of the way Universities and Colleges over there use young, mainly black, males to boost their commercial incomes by recruiting them to play a sport that puts their bodies on the line for the false hope (in the vast majority) of the riches of the pro league, all the while pretending to offer a graduate level education. So does this sordid little affair excite me? No. I can't say I particularly blame the women, their pursuit of maximum is not a gender specific pursuit, and who wouldn't. It's just a tad repulsive. But (finally) none of that excuses some of the inane anti female sports rants on this thread, most of which appear, to this member, rooted in misogyny. As for refusing to read a newspaper or any form of writing because of some predetermined perception of what it contains... words fail me. Seems to me that's reading to affirm rather than reading to inform. Well, at least I read the judgement, you haven't, so one of us is, as usual, informed, the other, as usual... Point me towards this misogyny, not anecdotal or from the 1960s or early 1970s, show me where it exists today. I'm intrigued. I've spent a considerable amount of time looking in to this both here in the UK and the social experiments run in Scandinavia, which I doubt very much you are even aware of, or you wouldn't be saying this stuff, but I'm delighted to have helped point you towards them, nobody expected them to produce the results that they did, go investigate, then we can have a proper discussion. Do you find value in anything written by twerps like Owen Jones, or incomprehensible twaddle penned by children such as Ash (I am literally a Communist) Sarkar? That's the tone of The Guardian, there are similar right wing rags, do you religiously read every one of those, or once you've assessed that there's nothing of value in them do you just give them a wide berth? BTW, yes those Women did frame the claim in gender terms, they did that to gain public support and media traction, the slogan was 'Equal pay', equal to what? I'll help you out, it was something to do with Men... I gave you my reasons for not getting excited about the issue of women's pay in American Soccer (their definition) For me, as someone with a vested interest in the USA, their are far bigger issues to get excited about over there. The fact that some become over excited about this issue and the fact that it involved a write up in the Guardian speaks volumes for those who did succumb to this excitement. Like I said it does suggest an underlying misogyny. But I can't get excited by even that, because it's not surprising. Now if you want to chat about why, in the largest economy in the world, 27,000,000 kids there are on some level of special needs (economic) support....then it's a topic worthy of excitement. Or perhaps, even allowing for the ridiculous man in the White House, how they managed to add $1trillion to their national debt profile since 2017. Or closer to home how the emasculation if public services fed into the disgraceful death rate in care homes here as a result of Covid19. So no, I didn't bother to read about the women in America demanding higher pay. My comment was on those who make the contra argument and the need to attack the media.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 9:05:00 GMT
am I alone in thinking that participation on here is not with a view to 'winning' (Donald)? Well - it's not about 'winning' in every debate... But this one seems to have resulted in "Do you agree with the Guardian and their representation of the US Women's Football claim for "equal pay"? From what I have read, the answer is fairly conclusively "no". The case has been rather well put by my learned friend Mr Gasgroin. So yes, it's about winning. And Bamber won. Though he has rather magnanimously claimed it's not about winning... mmm... Anyway - anything to discredit the Guardian when they have printed fake news is to be applauded. And likewise for the right wing media when they do the same. I don't think that I won, it's not a contest. I have 2 issues here; 1. These Women are very naughty, they did a bad thing, and then doubled down on it by using discrimination as a vehicle to support their claim, that 'cries wolf' and potentially discredits future claims, at very least, it erodes goodwill. 2. Our press is more about 'where do I go to find opinion that aligns with my own', than it is about news. That's not helpful or useful. Oldie thinks we should read both sides, if The Guardian or The Sun were worth reading I would, he obviously thinks they are, I don't. Hopefully he's spending his spare time today learning about what happened in those Nordic countries, that should give him some balance and chill him out a bit when he realises that we just do not live in a tyrannical Patriarchy overflowing with misogynists, that's just more Man hating Liberal clap-trap. If anything, equality of opportunity in the western world is tilted slightly in favour of females. I suspect that he's carrying the ghost of having worked through the late 1960s and early 1970s when there genuinely was discrimination in the workplace. Here you go Oldie, it's a bit longer than a normal piece by Chris McGreal, but if you can concentrate all the way through, it may help you understand some stuff. By all means, tell me where the faults are with Professor Peterson's assessment here please? This is why these debates never go well for you, whilst you are reading The Daily Mirror, I'm reading and learning from stuff like this; nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-the-gender-scandal-in-scandinavia-and-canadaOh, BTW, I see you are accusing USA institutions of racism by providing opportunities for black athletes. Again, more Liberal nonsense. So, what do you want, equality of outcome I guess, so that when an American Football team takes the field the skin colour represents perfectly the % of the population regardless of the ability of the players? Seriously, you get these arguments from 10 year olds. Looking at your last post, now that your arguments have fallen to pieces you appear to be accusing me of misogyny. OK, go on, show me where or apologise. Sure, we can do the economy again, and you'll get taken to the cleaners, again. Just 1 pre-condition. You do now accept the principle of Laffer, just say that you've been wrong on that all these years and we'll move on to dismantling the rest of your position
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 10:35:34 GMT
This is the problem with Bamber. He finds it impossible to discuss/debate a topic without using aggressive language. There is also reading and interpreting in a way that affirms his views, rather than considering what is actually said. Take the issue around college football. This is what I actually said
"There is never much talk of the way Universities and Colleges over there use young, mainly black, males to boost their commercial incomes by recruiting them to play a sport that puts their bodies on the line for the false hope (in the vast majority) of the riches of the pro league, all the while pretending to offer a graduate level education."
This was not question of affirmative action as he infers. There is a huge number of multiple ethnicties playing the sport. For example Miami drafted an Hawaiian in the April draft. No the issue I highlight is the literal abuse of these kids to fill the coffers of the colleges and universities. A far bigger issue than the rather banal claim for pay by the female elite footballers or a vague article written in the Gaurdian.
But draws scant comment from those who take umbrage over women's claim to equal pay.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 11:45:29 GMT
This is the problem with Bamber. He finds it impossible to discuss/debate a topic without using aggressive language. There is also reading and interpreting in a way that affirms his views, rather than considering what is actually said. Take the issue around college football. This is what I actually said "There is never much talk of the way Universities and Colleges over there use young, mainly black, males to boost their commercial incomes by recruiting them to play a sport that puts their bodies on the line for the false hope (in the vast majority) of the riches of the pro league, all the while pretending to offer a graduate level education." This was not question of affirmative action as he infers. There is a huge number of multiple ethnicties playing the sport. For example Miami drafted an Hawaiian in the April draft. No the issue I highlight is the literal abuse of these kids to fill the coffers of the colleges and universities. A far bigger issue than the rather banal claim for pay by the female elite footballers or a vague article written in the Gaurdian. But draws scant comment from those who take umbrage over women's claim to equal pay. I ask again, is what you desire equality of outcome or equality of opportunity? You do realise that circa 68% of professional US football players are black, so what do you think the colleges should do, recruit just from Alaska, that would get the % of white faces up a bit. BTW, I also have family in America so am receiving real time feedback of what's happening there, which is helpful after EU legislation restricted access to some international websites. There you go, another example of how the EU adversely affects our daily lives. Now, about this misogyny that you've accused me of, where is it please? What I've actually done throughout this thread is say that I applaud all action taken to highlight any discrimination and that I stand shoulder to shoulder with each and every victim of discrimination on any basis, however, think that the way these Women have hijacked gender to pursue a monetary claim is potentially harmful. Feels even handed to me. For balance though, as you've clearly still not read the judgement, which just exposes you still further as being driven by emotion rather than evidence, judgement was made in their favour for a discrepancy in both travel and accommodation provision between the male and female soccer teams. I agree with this finding and feel that the girls should never have been subjected to inferior arrangements in those areas, and once recognised it shouldn't have taken legal action to resolve. I think though that they bundled all elements of the claim together and didn't give the Federation an opportunity to resolve any part of their grievance separately.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on May 19, 2020 12:22:52 GMT
This is the problem with Bamber. He finds it impossible to discuss/debate a topic without using aggressive language. There is also reading and interpreting in a way that affirms his views, rather than considering what is actually said. Take the issue around college football. This is what I actually said "There is never much talk of the way Universities and Colleges over there use young, mainly black, males to boost their commercial incomes by recruiting them to play a sport that puts their bodies on the line for the false hope (in the vast majority) of the riches of the pro league, all the while pretending to offer a graduate level education." This was not question of affirmative action as he infers. There is a huge number of multiple ethnicties playing the sport. For example Miami drafted an Hawaiian in the April draft. No the issue I highlight is the literal abuse of these kids to fill the coffers of the colleges and universities. A far bigger issue than the rather banal claim for pay by the female elite footballers or a vague article written in the Gaurdian. But draws scant comment from those who take umbrage over women's claim to equal pay. Yes - the US college sports model is an absolute disgrace. A huge multi-million pound industry that pays everyone involved handsomely (including the coaches - I don't understand how they live with themselves) apart from the players who get nothing at all beyond a scholarship of fairly negligible value. Only the 1-3% who make it to the Professional game get anything out of it. The (mostly private) Universities make enormous profits which they often use to cross-subsidise other aspects of their operation. So what you often get is athletes from poor backgrounds getting paid nothing despite being the key part of a very wealthy industry that subsidises the education of the rich. On top of that, it's also shot full of many examples of actual physical and mental abuse of players because they are in such a relatively powerless position. It's completely indefensible.
The US women's football team pay claim is really just a standard aspect of US Sport. National team wins World Championship, then uses increased profile among media and sponsors to demand improved pay and conditions through its collective bargaining agreement with the federation, which ultimately ends up in the courts. There is nothing unusual here - it is just the disfunctional way US sport operates at the national level. It happens after every Olympic games! US national sports federations generally use their monopoly position to badly underpay their players across the board so players have to use these high profile moments as leverage to improve their pay and conditions particularly, as in this case, if the national team is their main source of income. I can think of a half dozen examples over the last decade where this has occurred in the national teams of various US sports (both men and women). The US men's team were 24 hours from striking a few years back over pay and conditions. While it's always tempting to get into a tedious culture wars ding-dong, the main issue here is the poor governance and corruption in US national sport federations that in the case of football produced the likes of Chuck Blazer and continues to lurch from scandal to scandal. They're a disgrace and have been a major catalyst of corruption in the global game over the years - why anyone would be on their side in this is baffling to me.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 12:42:02 GMT
This is the problem with Bamber. He finds it impossible to discuss/debate a topic without using aggressive language. There is also reading and interpreting in a way that affirms his views, rather than considering what is actually said. Take the issue around college football. This is what I actually said "There is never much talk of the way Universities and Colleges over there use young, mainly black, males to boost their commercial incomes by recruiting them to play a sport that puts their bodies on the line for the false hope (in the vast majority) of the riches of the pro league, all the while pretending to offer a graduate level education." This was not question of affirmative action as he infers. There is a huge number of multiple ethnicties playing the sport. For example Miami drafted an Hawaiian in the April draft. No the issue I highlight is the literal abuse of these kids to fill the coffers of the colleges and universities. A far bigger issue than the rather banal claim for pay by the female elite footballers or a vague article written in the Gaurdian. But draws scant comment from those who take umbrage over women's claim to equal pay. Yes - the US college sports model is an absolute disgrace. A huge multi-million pound industry that pays everyone involved handsomely (including the coaches - I don't understand how they live with themselves) apart from the players who get nothing at all beyond a scholarship of fairly negligible value. Only the 1-3% who make it to the Professional game get anything out of it. The (mostly private) Universities make enormous profits which they often use to cross-subsidise other aspects of their operation. So what you often get is athletes from poor backgrounds getting paid nothing despite being the key part of a very wealthy industry that subsidises the education of the rich. On top of that, it's also shot full of many examples of actual physical and mental abuse of players because they are in such a relatively powerless position. It's completely indefensible.
The US women's football team pay claim is really just a standard aspect of US Sport. National team wins World Championship, then uses increased profile among media and sponsors to demand improved pay and conditions through its collective bargaining agreement with the federation, which ultimately ends up in the courts. There is nothing unusual here - it is just the disfunctional way US sport operates at the national level. It happens after every Olympic games! US national sports federations generally use their monopoly position to badly underpay their players across the board so players have to use these high profile moments as leverage to improve their pay and conditions particularly, as in this case, if the national team is their main source of income. I can think of a half dozen examples over the last decade where this has occurred in the national teams of various US sports (both men and women). The US men's team were 24 hours from striking a few years back over pay and conditions. While it's always tempting to get into a tedious culture wars ding-dong, the main issue here is the poor governance and corruption in US national sport federations that in the case of football produced the likes of Chuck Blazer and continues to lurch from scandal to scandal. They're a disgrace and have been a major catalyst of corruption in the global game over the years - why anyone would be on their side in this is baffling to me.
Thank you Irish. Exactly put and why I, personally, could not get too excited by the story over the Women's Football Team claims, even less so that it was written up in the Guardian. As I see it and have said it seems to me that those of a certain political persuasion feel the need to vent their outrage over non issues like this when there is so much more going on. Reminds me of that idiotic little man and MP who would turn purple during the Parliamentary debate over the Brexit Bill. One of Neanderthal, Count Dracula, Rees-Mogg's ERG group as I recall.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on May 19, 2020 13:14:09 GMT
Yes - the US college sports model is an absolute disgrace. A huge multi-million pound industry that pays everyone involved handsomely (including the coaches - I don't understand how they live with themselves) apart from the players who get nothing at all beyond a scholarship of fairly negligible value. Only the 1-3% who make it to the Professional game get anything out of it. The (mostly private) Universities make enormous profits which they often use to cross-subsidise other aspects of their operation. So what you often get is athletes from poor backgrounds getting paid nothing despite being the key part of a very wealthy industry that subsidises the education of the rich. On top of that, it's also shot full of many examples of actual physical and mental abuse of players because they are in such a relatively powerless position. It's completely indefensible.
The US women's football team pay claim is really just a standard aspect of US Sport. National team wins World Championship, then uses increased profile among media and sponsors to demand improved pay and conditions through its collective bargaining agreement with the federation, which ultimately ends up in the courts. There is nothing unusual here - it is just the disfunctional way US sport operates at the national level. It happens after every Olympic games! US national sports federations generally use their monopoly position to badly underpay their players across the board so players have to use these high profile moments as leverage to improve their pay and conditions particularly, as in this case, if the national team is their main source of income. I can think of a half dozen examples over the last decade where this has occurred in the national teams of various US sports (both men and women). The US men's team were 24 hours from striking a few years back over pay and conditions. While it's always tempting to get into a tedious culture wars ding-dong, the main issue here is the poor governance and corruption in US national sport federations that in the case of football produced the likes of Chuck Blazer and continues to lurch from scandal to scandal. They're a disgrace and have been a major catalyst of corruption in the global game over the years - why anyone would be on their side in this is baffling to me.
Thank you Irish. Exactly put and why I, personally, could not get too excited by the story over the Women's Football Team claims, even less so that it was written up in the Guardian. As I see it and have said it seems to me that those of a certain political persuasion feel the need to vent their outrage over non issues like this when there is so much more going on. Reminds me of that idiotic little man and MP who would turn purple during the Parliamentary debate over the Brexit Bill. One of Neanderthal, Count Dracula, Rees-Mogg's ERG group as I recall. I think there is also a general lack of appreciation for how different (and quite weird) US Sport actually is.
The way national sports work in the US is really really strange with structures that are a hang over from Cold War era soft propaganda and have never been properly updated for the modern world - ironically it's far closer to the way Athletes are treated in Russia and China then the UK. The number of abuse scandals that come out of their various programmes are truly shocking.
There are also so many different behaviour norms and unwritten rules. For example, they have a big hang-up about 'running up the score' and rubbing teams faces in it. In Baseball, even at a professional level, you are expected to 'go easy' on teams once it becomes clear that you have won the game. If a team steals a base while it is well ahead it can start a mass brawl. When the US Women's Team thrashed Thailand in the World Cup they were criticised in the US press for celebrating all their goals. That got interpreted in the UK press as double standards for men and women and there may have been an element of that, but it was mainly that they were seen to have violated the fundamental norm of not showing the opponent up once you are clearly going to win. Whereas in the UK (and most of the World I think), we'd see teams going easy and not celebrating as somewhat patronising towards their opponents. There really are big differences.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 14:20:11 GMT
Thank you Irish. Exactly put and why I, personally, could not get too excited by the story over the Women's Football Team claims, even less so that it was written up in the Guardian. As I see it and have said it seems to me that those of a certain political persuasion feel the need to vent their outrage over non issues like this when there is so much more going on. Reminds me of that idiotic little man and MP who would turn purple during the Parliamentary debate over the Brexit Bill. One of Neanderthal, Count Dracula, Rees-Mogg's ERG group as I recall. I think there is also a general lack of appreciation for how different (and quite weird) US Sport actually is.
The way national sports work in the US is really really strange with structures that are a hang over from Cold War era soft propaganda and have never been properly updated for the modern world - ironically it's far closer to the way Athletes are treated in Russia and China then the UK. The number of abuse scandals that come out of their various programmes are truly shocking.
There are also so many different behaviour norms and unwritten rules. For example, they have a big hang-up about 'running up the score' and rubbing teams faces in it. In Baseball, even at a professional level, you are expected to 'go easy' on teams once it becomes clear that you have won the game. If a team steals a base while it is well ahead it can start a mass brawl. When the US Women's Team thrashed Thailand in the World Cup they were criticised in the US press for celebrating all their goals. That got interpreted in the UK press as double standards for men and women and there may have been an element of that, but it was mainly that they were seen to have violated the fundamental norm of not showing the opponent up once you are clearly going to win. Whereas in the UK (and most of the World I think), we'd see teams going easy and not celebrating as somewhat patronising towards their opponents. There really are big differences.
Very much so. My eldest son attended University in Alabama and the fanaticism over University Football was insane. I went there to visit. I cannot remember the student population but the football stadium held 90,000, about double the population of the town as I recall. This was in the mid 90s' after we returned to the UK. Still, even then, it was unusual to have a black quarterback, those guys mostly populated the offensive and defensive lines. Even more rare to have a black coach. Especially in the South, good old boys ruled. On your point about running up the score reminded me of college bowl game 90/91. University of Miami Vs Texas. Miami were a great team made up of black working class kids from the Florida hinterland and other poor southern states. Texas were almost all white kids. Miami beat them and beat them up. 51-0 was the final score I think. Anyway, CBS who televised the game went absolutely ape s**t at half time and at the end of the game. Saying things like "not in the spirit of college sports" A load of bollox of course, the sons of the good old boys got their ass kicked and they didn't like it. Not that much has changed, black guy was shot dead in Georgia a couple of weeks ago whilst going out for a jog.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,109
|
Post by eppinggas on May 19, 2020 14:44:02 GMT
Are we not reading, comparing, and contrasting all of the national print newspapers any more? It's worth the effort to try. Funnily enough, in the vain hope of common ground, I read nothing Corbyn activist in journalist's clothing Owen Jones writes because of his misogyny. He's a nasty little toad, and no mistake. I keep getting Owen Jones and David Icke mixed up.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,109
|
Post by eppinggas on May 19, 2020 14:45:07 GMT
And furthermore, Owen Jones is a Darragh MacAnthony. IMHO.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 16:10:55 GMT
Are we not reading, comparing, and contrasting all of the national print newspapers any more? It's worth the effort to try. Funnily enough, in the vain hope of common ground, I read nothing Corbyn activist in journalist's clothing Owen Jones writes because of his misogyny. He's a nasty little toad, and no mistake. I keep getting Owen Jones and David Icke mixed up. I keep getting Rees-Mogg and Count Dracula mixed up. I guess that's why he has disappeared.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 16:22:17 GMT
Honestly Oldie, you see misogyny, racism, bigotry literally everywhere.
Why don't you do what other people do and get some serious research on US race under your belt, find out about the % of crimes committed, who they are committed by, critically who the victims are*, and now the point that you'll be blissfully unaware of, what % of the black community live in single parent families and how being in a single parent family affects you in terms of the likelihood of you ending up on the wrong side of the law or failing to complete your education. Now see what happens to your career chances in America if you don't complete your education.
BTW, those figures for single parent families and education are pretty much mirrored across society, regardless of skin colour, the problem is, just to address one prong of the problem, in the black community single parent families are circa 70%, white families are in the mid 20% region.
The best thing you can do for your life chances in America is have a Mother who doesn't choose a bum to Father children, and complete your education, regardless of the colour of your skin.
*Why choose a story about those blokes chasing that black jogger? Why not look at the broader picture, here's some figures at the end of the Obama years, which I presume you approved of; Murders, % of black people killed where the assailant was white 7.6% % White killed by white 82 % White killed by black 15 % Black killed by Black 90
So most killings are same colour, but it's twice as likely that a white person will be killed by a black person as it is that a black person will be killed by a white person. I have literally no point other than to ask why you highlight a White on Black incident when there are twice as many Black on White events?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 17:07:35 GMT
This really made me laugh out loud
" Why don't you do what other people do and get some serious research on US race under your belt, find out about the % of crimes committed, who they are committed by, critically who the victims are*, and now the point that you'll be blissfully unaware of, what % of the black community live in single parent families and how being in a single parent family affects you in terms of the likelihood of you ending up on the wrong side of the law or failing to complete your education. Now see what happens to your career chances in America if you don't complete your education."
So, I lived in the States for ten years,in the South. I travelled extensively both for my business and for pleasure. I was an employer with one business employing primarily Afro Americans. I witnessed first hand the pressure they were under, housing, education an unwritten segregation. To give you an example the educational segregation was so bad in the county I lived in that eventually two High Schools were merged so that Afro American kids were bussed into the predominantly white school.
So, please refrain from asking me to "read" something. I lived with it first hand. To add. My eldest son is Managing Director of World Wide Education Services for a major Consultancy / IT/ Financial Service Co. Total employees 500,000.
So to be honest, I think my, now our, exposure and now provider insight to the reality of life in the States requires no input from you.
To use your language, let me give you a way out. Why not articulate what drives the breakdown of social structures in any given community.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 18:24:56 GMT
This really made me laugh out loud " Why don't you do what other people do and get some serious research on US race under your belt, find out about the % of crimes committed, who they are committed by, critically who the victims are*, and now the point that you'll be blissfully unaware of, what % of the black community live in single parent families and how being in a single parent family affects you in terms of the likelihood of you ending up on the wrong side of the law or failing to complete your education. Now see what happens to your career chances in America if you don't complete your education." So, I lived in the States for ten years,in the South. I travelled extensively both for my business and for pleasure. I was an employer with one business employing primarily Afro Americans. I witnessed first hand the pressure they were under, housing, education an unwritten segregation. To give you an example the educational segregation was so bad in the county I lived in that eventually two High Schools were merged so that Afro American kids were bussed into the predominantly white school. So, please refrain from asking me to "read" something. I lived with it first hand. To add. My eldest son is Managing Director of World Wide Education Services for a major Consultancy / IT/ Financial Service Co. Total employees 500,000. So to be honest, I think my, now our, exposure and now provider insight to the reality of life in the States requires no input from you. To use your language, let me give you a way out. Why not articulate what drives the breakdown of social structures in any given community. Can we come back to the wider debate later, I'm just a little worried that there may be some confusion about where I am with that guy getting killed. For clarity, that event was disgusting, I don't know where it happened, but if it is what it appeared to be in the short video I saw, a young guy out jogging, minding his business, then being chassed, shot and killed by 2 pieces of filth, whatever punishment they have in that state isn't severe enough, not only for what they've done to the Man himself, but also his family, friends, workmates, and also the damage they've done to their own families. As Hitch would say, it's a shame there's not a Hell for them to go to. I used statistics following on from referencing the event, that was clumsy and in poor taste. Maybe we'll come back to the other issues in a bit.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 12:13:25 GMT
This really made me laugh out loud " Why don't you do what other people do and get some serious research on US race under your belt, find out about the % of crimes committed, who they are committed by, critically who the victims are*, and now the point that you'll be blissfully unaware of, what % of the black community live in single parent families and how being in a single parent family affects you in terms of the likelihood of you ending up on the wrong side of the law or failing to complete your education. Now see what happens to your career chances in America if you don't complete your education." So, I lived in the States for ten years,in the South. I travelled extensively both for my business and for pleasure. I was an employer with one business employing primarily Afro Americans. I witnessed first hand the pressure they were under, housing, education an unwritten segregation. To give you an example the educational segregation was so bad in the county I lived in that eventually two High Schools were merged so that Afro American kids were bussed into the predominantly white school. So, please refrain from asking me to "read" something. I lived with it first hand. To add. My eldest son is Managing Director of World Wide Education Services for a major Consultancy / IT/ Financial Service Co. Total employees 500,000. So to be honest, I think my, now our, exposure and now provider insight to the reality of life in the States requires no input from you. To use your language, let me give you a way out. Why not articulate what drives the breakdown of social structures in any given community. OK, so, back to the points under discussion. You do know what an argument from authority is, don't you? That's exactly what you are employing here. Moving on. OK, some pupils were moved from failing schools into better ones, and? How about addressing the point made and investigate the families that these pupils came from and their conduct. I say again, one of the things you can do which will give you the best chance of having a successful life in America is be born to a Mother who doesn't choose a total douchebag to Father her children. Skin colour is irrelevant here, be born to a single white mother and you are exactly as likely to be arrested, shot, end up with an addiction, become homeless as a black child is. Now, here's the problem, almost 3 times as many black families in America have a single parent. But hey, you knew this already, you mentioned it as a factor before me, because you don't need to research facts, you lived there so you are an expert on everything. Now, about the young black athletes. equality of opportunity or of outcome? That's the 3rd time I've asked. Thanks for acknowledging that you are now aware that the EU did and continues to have a negative impact on UK citizens. That's a hard one to swallow isn't it, you've been so convinced for years that you've been right, now you know you were wrong. We're off and I'm delighted. BTW, my Son is regional manager for a national disability service provider in America, that doesn't make me an expert on what he does and I'm not stupid enough to try to pretend that it does. And even if via some kind of Joe90 knowledge transfer I learned everything he knows, so what? What's the population of America today, edging towards 350,000,000, what can a single person's experience tell you about the entirety of society. It's daft beyond comprehension. One final point, what on earth is this; This is just you through and through. You think you know all there is to know and won't learn anything new. How was Professor Peterson's work? You didn't read it, did you, because you already know best. Closed minded bigotry on display for all to see. Oh well, at least you won't be shouting your mouth off about misogyny again any time soon, because one of us has an interest in equality and has looked at the work of serious academics, the other is just filled up with pub talk. Over a period of years I've cited my personal experience in business, you've continually said that it's inadmissible as evidence in debate as it's anecdotal. David Brain used to do this, talk himself in ever decreasing circles, it was painful to watch. Hope that wasn't too aggressive for you?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 21:17:36 GMT
Snow White looked on in dismay. For while she had just wanted the dwarves to play nicely, Oldie and foolly were having get another bust-up over demographic sociology.
|
|
|
Post by a more piratey game on May 20, 2020 21:20:51 GMT
Snow White looked on in dismay. For while she had just wanted the dwarves to play nicely, Oldie and foolly were having get another bust-up over demographic sociology.
|
|
eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,109
|
Post by eppinggas on May 21, 2020 8:56:59 GMT
This really made me laugh out loud " Why don't you do what other people do and get some serious research on US race under your belt, find out about the % of crimes committed, who they are committed by, critically who the victims are*, and now the point that you'll be blissfully unaware of, what % of the black community live in single parent families and how being in a single parent family affects you in terms of the likelihood of you ending up on the wrong side of the law or failing to complete your education. Now see what happens to your career chances in America if you don't complete your education." So, I lived in the States for ten years,in the South. I travelled extensively both for my business and for pleasure. I was an employer with one business employing primarily Afro Americans. I witnessed first hand the pressure they were under, housing, education an unwritten segregation. To give you an example the educational segregation was so bad in the county I lived in that eventually two High Schools were merged so that Afro American kids were bussed into the predominantly white school. So, please refrain from asking me to "read" something. I lived with it first hand. To add. My eldest son is Managing Director of World Wide Education Services for a major Consultancy / IT/ Financial Service Co. Total employees 500,000. So to be honest, I think my, now our, exposure and now provider insight to the reality of life in the States requires no input from you. To use your language, let me give you a way out. Why not articulate what drives the breakdown of social structures in any given community.I'll have a stab at it: drugs and/or alcohol abuse. Not sure what drives people to use drugs and/or abuse alcohol abuse though...
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 9:25:34 GMT
This really made me laugh out loud " Why don't you do what other people do and get some serious research on US race under your belt, find out about the % of crimes committed, who they are committed by, critically who the victims are*, and now the point that you'll be blissfully unaware of, what % of the black community live in single parent families and how being in a single parent family affects you in terms of the likelihood of you ending up on the wrong side of the law or failing to complete your education. Now see what happens to your career chances in America if you don't complete your education." So, I lived in the States for ten years,in the South. I travelled extensively both for my business and for pleasure. I was an employer with one business employing primarily Afro Americans. I witnessed first hand the pressure they were under, housing, education an unwritten segregation. To give you an example the educational segregation was so bad in the county I lived in that eventually two High Schools were merged so that Afro American kids were bussed into the predominantly white school. So, please refrain from asking me to "read" something. I lived with it first hand. To add. My eldest son is Managing Director of World Wide Education Services for a major Consultancy / IT/ Financial Service Co. Total employees 500,000. So to be honest, I think my, now our, exposure and now provider insight to the reality of life in the States requires no input from you. To use your language, let me give you a way out. Why not articulate what drives the breakdown of social structures in any given community.I'll have a stab at it: drugs and/or alcohol abuse. Not sure what drives people to use drugs and/or abuse alcohol abuse though... Don't make it that easy for Oldie. First, make him define which element of society he's describing. Before you start though, he isn't here to learn anything or consider alternative points of view, I'll wager he still hasn't looked at that link to Professor Peterson's work, all Oldie wants to do is proselytise.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 15:18:42 GMT
I'll have a stab at it: drugs and/or alcohol abuse. Not sure what drives people to use drugs and/or abuse alcohol abuse though... Don't make it that easy for Oldie. First, make him define which element of society he's describing. Before you start though, he isn't here to learn anything or consider alternative points of view, I'll wager he still hasn't looked at that link to Professor Peterson's work, all Oldie wants to do is proselytise. Like I said I require no input from you as the value of such is as questionable at best.
|
|