eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on May 30, 2020 8:05:57 GMT
That's a very expensive solution... then again it is Wael. I'm happy (sounds like I'm in a small minority) watching football on TV BCD. Not ideal. Best worst option for now though. BT Sport: Hertha/Union Friday 7:45 ko. That's my football for the week anyway... I was only half joking to be honest. I really can't see why we're on the 'let's play football' side of this really. I can't see how we're making any money out of this. I'm struggling to see what's in it for us. Cricket training returned in very limited sense this week and I was chatting to 2 people at my club who are fans of Oxford and Rotherhan and they love us right now! But they also can't understand why we're on their side.
(Sorry for late reply - been a tricky week so not been on the forum).
It was only that Bristol Live piece that lumped us in with the 6 'big' Clubs. I don't think it's been reported anywhere else that we are determined to play out the season. If it is true, I can only conclude that Wael has made a very strange financial decision.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 30, 2020 10:51:06 GMT
I was only half joking to be honest. I really can't see why we're on the 'let's play football' side of this really. I can't see how we're making any money out of this. I'm struggling to see what's in it for us. Cricket training returned in very limited sense this week and I was chatting to 2 people at my club who are fans of Oxford and Rotherhan and they love us right now! But they also can't understand why we're on their side.
(Sorry for late reply - been a tricky week so not been on the forum).
It was only that Bristol Live piece that lumped us in with the 6 'big' Clubs. I don't think it's been reported anywhere else that we are determined to play out the season. If it is true, I can only conclude that Wael has made a very strange financial decision. The Oxford and Rotherham fans were basing it on the votes that have been held. Their fans are obviously following this closely and they definitely have us as an ally in the 'determined to play' column.
It's hardly surprising League 1 teams can't agree on this. It's the most diverse League in the country in terms of the type of clubs involved. Of course Sunderland would want to play - they desperately need to get back up before their Premier parachute payments stop and they have a big enough fanbase that they can probably eat into some of the losses from this through charging for online streams etc. Of course Accrington don't want to play because it will probably increase their losses even more. I can't see how that basic tension could be resolved without some kind of compensation being paid by the bigger clubs to the smaller ones (I believe that has happened in some countries to ensure they will get going again) and there's no culture of that in English football. I'd have had us closer to Accrington to Sunderland on that scale but maybe I'm wrong about that.
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jun 3, 2020 10:29:16 GMT
EFL board meeting today (3rd), after clubs had submitted alternative plans, and announcement today or (more likely) tomorrow. Then clubs should vote on Monday. More fudge anybody?
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Post by laughinggas on Jun 3, 2020 10:36:05 GMT
Perhaps we can come up with a formula that gives us promotion!
We would have been relegated last season under the current ppg formula.
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Post by laughinggas on Jun 3, 2020 10:36:51 GMT
How long will it take to come up with a plan and set of rules for next season?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jun 3, 2020 10:58:30 GMT
Cricket has the Shovelerworth/Lewis method. Perhaps for continuity and fairness so we all know where we stand, a similar method could be in place prior to a new season starting?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 3, 2020 12:34:17 GMT
Cricket has the Shovelerworth/Lewis method. Perhaps for continuity and fairness so we all know where we stand, a similar method could be in place prior to a new season starting? I was listening to a thing about this the other day. It's quite hard to replicate any form of DLS in football because in cricket it's fairly clear what has value in terms of winning the game (runs, wickets, economy rate etc) and these can be quite easily adjusted for various other factors partly because there are so many datapoints produced. In football, no one has ever really agreed on what it is that a winning formula looks like beyond goals scored/conceded. That doesn't give you very many datapoints and also means that you're probably not going to develop anything that can be anymore representative of a team's ultimate outcomes than PPG/goals per game anyway. One of the fairly unique features of football is that more than most sports it really is a team game rather than a series of individual matchups. That makes it much harder to quantify success because it's a lot easier to measure individual performance as it can isolated.
Even a sport like Basketball or Rugby can ultimately be broken down into a series of individual contests and you can measure who gets the better of them and how that contributes to the team winning quite easily. Football doesn't really work like that which is why there's not really been the stats revolution that has occurred in other sports. For example, you might argue that a successful winger is one who gets a lot of crosses into the box (it's certainly how we as fans tend to measure their success) but then a stats guy or a manager will come along and say that crosses are not very efficient and that he'd be better passing inside and another might demonstrate that having someone standing outwide for the whole game is inefficient and he should be playing narrower and focusing on cutting in. You can measure all of these things but ultimately they are dependent on what other players are doing, what the oppositon is doing and what the shape of your side is. That gives you a huge amount of variation in both the options and the desirability of the outcome and massively increases the amount of error that would be in your formula. It's a lot harder than, say, measuring the number of missed tackles in a Rugby match between 2 directly matched up players.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jun 3, 2020 15:08:14 GMT
I see F1 is starting with 8 back to back races but no crowds, only on TV. 2 x Grand Prix at Silverstone
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Jun 3, 2020 16:09:24 GMT
Cricket has the Shovelerworth/Lewis method. Perhaps for continuity and fairness so we all know where we stand, a similar method could be in place prior to a new season starting? I was listening to a thing about this the other day. It's quite hard to replicate any form of DLS in football because in cricket it's fairly clear what has value in terms of winning the game (runs, wickets, economy rate etc) and these can be quite easily adjusted for various other factors partly because there are so many datapoints produced. In football, no one has ever really agreed on what it is that a winning formula looks like beyond goals scored/conceded. That doesn't give you very many datapoints and also means that you're probably not going to develop anything that can be anymore representative of a team's ultimate outcomes than PPG/goals per game anyway. One of the fairly unique features of football is that more than most sports it really is a team game rather than a series of individual matchups. That makes it much harder to quantify success because it's a lot easier to measure individual performance as it can isolated.
Even a sport like Basketball or Rugby can ultimately be broken down into a series of individual contests and you can measure who gets the better of them and how that contributes to the team winning quite easily. Football doesn't really work like that which is why there's not really been the stats revolution that has occurred in other sports. For example, you might argue that a successful winger is one who gets a lot of crosses into the box (it's certainly how we as fans tend to measure their success) but then a stats guy or a manager will come along and say that crosses are not very efficient and that he'd be better passing inside and another might demonstrate that having someone standing outwide for the whole game is inefficient and he should be playing narrower and focusing on cutting in. You can measure all of these things but ultimately they are dependent on what other players are doing, what the oppositon is doing and what the shape of your side is. That gives you a huge amount of variation in both the options and the desirability of the outcome and massively increases the amount of error that would be in your formula. It's a lot harder than, say, measuring the number of missed tackles in a Rugby match between 2 directly matched up players.
All very good and well....but we had a pools panel sit for years before a home computer was even thought of!? 😁
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Igitur
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jun 3, 2020 17:28:02 GMT
Yes indeed more fudge:
The EFL have pushed back Monday's big EFL vote on the future of the League One season until Tuesday. The statement reads: "The EFL board met today and considered a number of proposals submitted by EFL clubs in respect of proposed amendments to EFL regulations in order to determine what will happen in the event the 2019/20 season is curtailed in any EFL division. "This now brings an end to a comprehensive consultation phase and clubs have today received formal notice of the meeting which will now take place on Tuesday 9 June 2020. "At that meeting clubs will consider a number of different proposals from both clubs and the coard of the EFL."
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 3, 2020 20:17:19 GMT
I was listening to a thing about this the other day. It's quite hard to replicate any form of DLS in football because in cricket it's fairly clear what has value in terms of winning the game (runs, wickets, economy rate etc) and these can be quite easily adjusted for various other factors partly because there are so many datapoints produced. In football, no one has ever really agreed on what it is that a winning formula looks like beyond goals scored/conceded. That doesn't give you very many datapoints and also means that you're probably not going to develop anything that can be anymore representative of a team's ultimate outcomes than PPG/goals per game anyway. One of the fairly unique features of football is that more than most sports it really is a team game rather than a series of individual matchups. That makes it much harder to quantify success because it's a lot easier to measure individual performance as it can isolated.
Even a sport like Basketball or Rugby can ultimately be broken down into a series of individual contests and you can measure who gets the better of them and how that contributes to the team winning quite easily. Football doesn't really work like that which is why there's not really been the stats revolution that has occurred in other sports. For example, you might argue that a successful winger is one who gets a lot of crosses into the box (it's certainly how we as fans tend to measure their success) but then a stats guy or a manager will come along and say that crosses are not very efficient and that he'd be better passing inside and another might demonstrate that having someone standing outwide for the whole game is inefficient and he should be playing narrower and focusing on cutting in. You can measure all of these things but ultimately they are dependent on what other players are doing, what the oppositon is doing and what the shape of your side is. That gives you a huge amount of variation in both the options and the desirability of the outcome and massively increases the amount of error that would be in your formula. It's a lot harder than, say, measuring the number of missed tackles in a Rugby match between 2 directly matched up players.
All very good and well....but we had a pools panel sit for years before a home computer was even thought of!? 😁 True and eveyone used to bloody moan about that too!
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Igitur
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Posts: 2,294
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Post by Igitur on Jun 6, 2020 8:18:31 GMT
One thing bubbling under the surface is the issue of refunds. Should the season continue behind closed doors, which I hope it does not, then those with a season ticket will probably get free iFollow codes. But if the season is brought to a halt, which seems likely, how are refunds to be arranged?
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 6, 2020 8:38:20 GMT
One thing bubbling under the surface is the issue of refunds. Should the season continue behind closed doors, which I hope it does not, then those with a season ticket will probably get free iFollow codes. But if the season is brought to a halt, which seems likely, how are refunds to be arranged? Everyone has different circumstances but for the current season, i would hope most people wouldnt want one. For the next season, i guess those who have already purchases are people that probably arent that worried of they get a refund or not. Havent got a new ST yet, but i dont want anything back for this years
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 6, 2020 9:03:12 GMT
One thing bubbling under the surface is the issue of refunds. Should the season continue behind closed doors, which I hope it does not, then those with a season ticket will probably get free iFollow codes. But if the season is brought to a halt, which seems likely, how are refunds to be arranged? I guess the Club has a moral (if not legal) obligation to offer refunds for the games not provided. Whether people take up the offer is up to them. Some people will be desperate for cash, some people might be able to take the hit...
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Post by laughinggas on Jun 6, 2020 9:19:01 GMT
One thing bubbling under the surface is the issue of refunds. Should the season continue behind closed doors, which I hope it does not, then those with a season ticket will probably get free iFollow codes. But if the season is brought to a halt, which seems likely, how are refunds to be arranged? I guess the Club has a moral (if not legal) obligation to offer refunds for the games not provided. Whether people take up the offer is up to them. Some people will be desperate for cash, some people might be able to take the hit... Is it technically a hit? Probably it's all been paid for, you don't get refunds if your circumstances change e.g. illness causes you to miss games, fixtures moved, job loss other unforeseen events. Start giving refunds and I assume it messes up fipunds for the next season for FFP?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 7, 2020 18:20:44 GMT
One thing bubbling under the surface is the issue of refunds. Should the season continue behind closed doors, which I hope it does not, then those with a season ticket will probably get free iFollow codes. But if the season is brought to a halt, which seems likely, how are refunds to be arranged? I guess the Club has a moral (if not legal) obligation to offer refunds for the games not provided. Whether people take up the offer is up to them. Some people will be desperate for cash, some people might be able to take the hit... I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. A friend of mine who is a Man City season ticket holder had his season ticket automatically removed 3 days after the league shutdown indefinitely. There was a bit of a fuss and I think they paid him back in the end. But if that's the natural instinct here then people will likely have to fight for any refunds.
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 8, 2020 7:06:48 GMT
Is today, the day we finally find out?
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Post by laughinggas on Jun 8, 2020 7:22:05 GMT
Is today, the day we finally find out? EFL meeting Tuesday, or are you being mischievous?
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Post by lostinspace on Jun 8, 2020 7:30:39 GMT
Is today, the day we finally find out? only if you "go down to the woods"
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jun 8, 2020 8:10:50 GMT
Is today, the day we finally find out? EFL meeting Tuesday, or are you being mischievous? I thought it was today. days have lost meaning now. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if their were more rumours about it today
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