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Post by manchestergas on Apr 20, 2020 19:36:40 GMT
I thought quite an interesting series of videos from the chairman of afc flyde on the above, does touch on div 1. I don’t agree with all his comments but I thought very insightful:
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bloogas
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Post by bloogas on Apr 21, 2020 9:08:14 GMT
Well!!!! I wasn't going to watch them, then thought I've nothing else to do so might as well. Yes, very insightful. Very sobering. Lot of it is rather obvious, some new interesting points. Especially at the end re players' contracts. Perhaps some (or a lot) players might consider helping society and give something back and get out picking fruit and veg in the fields. However, wasn't it always a case of rich men bankrolling clubs to feed their dreams? Just the numbers are now astronomical. At last football may have to come down to earth. First move might be to get rid of agents.
BTW - assume you're in Manchester. Ever consider that Lancashire has, what, 15 FL or ex /potential FL league clubs? Ok, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the country, but does it need that many, or support that many? Just saying.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 21, 2020 15:10:40 GMT
Well!!!! I wasn't going to watch them, then thought I've nothing else to do so might as well. Yes, very insightful. Very sobering. Lot of it is rather obvious, some new interesting points. Especially at the end re players' contracts. Perhaps some (or a lot) players might consider helping society and give something back and get out picking fruit and veg in the fields. However, wasn't it always a case of rich men bankrolling clubs to feed their dreams? Just the numbers are now astronomical. At last football may have to come down to earth. First move might be to get rid of agents. BTW - assume you're in Manchester. Ever consider that Lancashire has, what, 15 FL or ex /potential FL league clubs? Ok, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the country, but does it need that many, or support that many? Just saying. I live in Manchester too. The really striking thing is the density of the non-league game. I live 2 miles south of the Centre. Within 5 miles of my house there are 10 Clubs at National League South level or Higher. Extend that to 10 miles or drop the qualification to the level below and you can get to 30 easily. 10 Mile radius (generous definition) of Bristol City Centre if you go from Southern League up I think there are probably 6-8 clubs max.
Clearly Greater Manchester is a much bigger population density but that alone doesn't explain the depth. It really was the heartland of the game up here. United and City are the least interesting part of it for me - it's the depth that's amazing.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 15:24:59 GMT
Well!!!! I wasn't going to watch them, then thought I've nothing else to do so might as well. Yes, very insightful. Very sobering. Lot of it is rather obvious, some new interesting points. Especially at the end re players' contracts. Perhaps some (or a lot) players might consider helping society and give something back and get out picking fruit and veg in the fields. However, wasn't it always a case of rich men bankrolling clubs to feed their dreams? Just the numbers are now astronomical. At last football may have to come down to earth. First move might be to get rid of agents. BTW - assume you're in Manchester. Ever consider that Lancashire has, what, 15 FL or ex /potential FL league clubs? Ok, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the country, but does it need that many, or support that many? Just saying. I live in Manchester too. The really striking thing is the density of the non-league game. I live 2 miles south of the Centre. Within 5 miles of my house there are 10 Clubs at National League South level or Higher. Extend that to 10 miles or drop the qualification to the level below and you can get to 30 easily. 10 Mile radius (generous definition) of Bristol City Centre if you go from Southern League up I think there are probably 6-8 clubs max.
Clearly Greater Manchester is a much bigger population density but that alone doesn't explain the depth. It really was the heartland of the game up here. United and City are the least interesting part of it for me - it's the depth that's amazing.
I had no idea it was that many although I knew they had a few but you have just made me wonder why this is. I was upset that my most local club, made forever, have ended and I really am upset because I can remember them playing , in southey playing fields, since I became a sentient being. I don’t see how the playing field will not be used as a place for housing, when the main reason for its upkeep was for the club. I very much hope that someone can get it going again. It’s been a part of Kingswood history for at least 60 or more years. |
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 15:28:39 GMT
Well!!!! I wasn't going to watch them, then thought I've nothing else to do so might as well. Yes, very insightful. Very sobering. Lot of it is rather obvious, some new interesting points. Especially at the end re players' contracts. Perhaps some (or a lot) players might consider helping society and give something back and get out picking fruit and veg in the fields. However, wasn't it always a case of rich men bankrolling clubs to feed their dreams? Just the numbers are now astronomical. At last football may have to come down to earth. First move might be to get rid of agents. BTW - assume you're in Manchester. Ever consider that Lancashire has, what, 15 FL or ex /potential FL league clubs? Ok, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the country, but does it need that many, or support that many? Just saying. I live in Manchester too. The really striking thing is the density of the non-league game. I live 2 miles south of the Centre. Within 5 miles of my house there are 10 Clubs at National League South level or Higher. Extend that to 10 miles or drop the qualification to the level below and you can get to 30 easily. 10 Mile radius (generous definition) of Bristol City Centre if you go from Southern League up I think there are probably 6-8 clubs max.
Clearly Greater Manchester is a much bigger population density but that alone doesn't explain the depth. It really was the heartland of the game up here. United and City are the least interesting part of it for me - it's the depth that's amazing.
If you have Netflix then watch a 6 part dramatisation called the English game. It’s very interesting and is about how Eton old boys tried to keep the game at amateur level only. Given what is now happening, it makes for a very good watch |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Apr 21, 2020 15:31:51 GMT
I live in Manchester too. The really striking thing is the density of the non-league game. I live 2 miles south of the Centre. Within 5 miles of my house there are 10 Clubs at National League South level or Higher. Extend that to 10 miles or drop the qualification to the level below and you can get to 30 easily. 10 Mile radius (generous definition) of Bristol City Centre if you go from Southern League up I think there are probably 6-8 clubs max.
Clearly Greater Manchester is a much bigger population density but that alone doesn't explain the depth. It really was the heartland of the game up here. United and City are the least interesting part of it for me - it's the depth that's amazing.
If you have Netflix then watch a 6 part dramatisation called the English game. It’s very interesting and is about how Eton old boys tried to keep the game at amateur level only. Given what is now happening, it makes for a very good watch Oh, I didn't realise it was a series. I thought it was a film. Are there 2 different period things out about football in that era or was I just wrong about it being a film? |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 21, 2020 15:38:43 GMT
If you have Netflix then watch a 6 part dramatisation called the English game. It’s very interesting and is about how Eton old boys tried to keep the game at amateur level only. Given what is now happening, it makes for a very good watch Oh, I didn't realise it was a series. I thought it was a film. Are there 2 different period things out about football in that era or was I just wrong about it being a film? It’s a series of 6 episodes and deals with around 3 seasons. I don’t want to give too much away but it doesn’t hurt to say the the mill workers team brought in two players who were professionals, in Scotland, and were paid to play. Up until that point, old Etonians had continually won the cup. It is based on real events. It really is the time when football changed, irreversibly. I think it’s a good watch too. Some highly emotionally charged stuff. I’m sure you would enjoy it |
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Apr 21, 2020 15:43:55 GMT
Sorry to hear that Southey playing fields might be lost to housing.
Part of my childhood in the early 60s was walking from Hunters Drive up there to play football and cricket with my friends in the school summer holidays.
In those days,you could borrow cricket pads, stumps, bats and balls from a small shed that lent them out.
Can’t remember if we even had to pay, but we probably had to between us.
It was about the only space we had to play games in the area, lots of games were played at the same time.
If you tried to play in the New Cheltenham infants fields, just about the other green area,you were chased out.
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Post by manchestergas on Apr 21, 2020 22:01:01 GMT
Well!!!! I wasn't going to watch them, then thought I've nothing else to do so might as well. Yes, very insightful. Very sobering. Lot of it is rather obvious, some new interesting points. Especially at the end re players' contracts. Perhaps some (or a lot) players might consider helping society and give something back and get out picking fruit and veg in the fields. However, wasn't it always a case of rich men bankrolling clubs to feed their dreams? Just the numbers are now astronomical. At last football may have to come down to earth. First move might be to get rid of agents. BTW - assume you're in Manchester. Ever consider that Lancashire has, what, 15 FL or ex /potential FL league clubs? Ok, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the country, but does it need that many, or support that many? Just saying. Does it ‘need’ that many clubs, maybe not. However you start talking about ‘need’ you move maybe to a franchise system. Under such a system Bristol should have Premier League ‘franchise club’ and Manchester less clubs overall. Not sure anyone would be happy then. I do however think a shake out is coming to football. |
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
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Post by bloogas on Apr 22, 2020 6:44:48 GMT
I won't copy your and my posts, Manchester, but I agree with you. The word "need" wasn't the one to use. I certainly don't want any kind of franchise or artificial structure of the leagues. I used to work (over the phone) with a Wigan fan and he used to remark "Whelan will have to get the cheque book out." Exactly what the Fylde chairman is saying - a bland assumption that money must be pumped in from outside and that the club could not exist on its own earnings. I wonder if the increase in ground capacity at Man U and City and Liverpool has siphoned off support from much smaller clubs around them. If that continued and with other big clubs as well, it might strangle smaller clubs around them. The rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer. I've noticed also the Fleetwood owner getting vocal. They are a case in point, surely, of what the Fylde guy is saying.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 23, 2020 10:42:41 GMT
Sorry to hear that Southey playing fields might be lost to housing. Part of my childhood in the early 60s was walking from Hunters Drive up there to play football and cricket with my friends in the school summer holidays. In those days,you could borrow cricket pads, stumps, bats and balls from a small shed that lent them out. Can’t remember if we even had to pay, but we probably had to between us. It was about the only space we had to play games in the area, lots of games were played at the same time. If you tried to play in the New Cheltenham infants fields, just about the other green area,you were chased out. I did exactly the same & you didn’t have to pay but give a very small deposit. Those were great times. The Pavillion & tennis courts are long gone. There is a skate board area where the tennis courts were My brother, Henry Pirog ( RIP) lived on hunters drive |
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Apr 23, 2020 14:42:36 GMT
Remember him from New Cheltenham Infants, did he go to High St Juniors as well, like me?
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 13:18:21 GMT
Remember him from New Cheltenham Infants, did he go to High St Juniors as well, like me? My 3 brothers all went to St.Patrick school. I was the youngest so escaped the RC indoctrination, thank god ( pun intended) the two eldest then went to Woodstock school, when they were there 😂 and the other to St Brendans and then uni. I’m back on New Cheltenham. |
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Apr 26, 2020 15:33:54 GMT
Very sorry to hear your loss of Henry. I seem to remember he had a brother with him at New Cheltenham, but is so long ago, mid 50s or so.
Funny how things stick in you mind, I can remember them running round the playground, having such unique names.
We were RC too, but I think my parents thought it was too far/ awkward to get to St Patrick’s in St George on the bus, with High St just up the hill.
I did the St Brendan’s route, Christian Brothers, CTS booklets, retreats etc,when all I wanted to do was try to get to the old Kingswood Grammar School.
Used to get the old 14 bus from New Cheltenham to Devon Rd, then walk to Eastville, or the specials from Kingswood Park to Eastville bus garage.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 16:29:34 GMT
Very sorry to hear your loss of Henry. I seem to remember he had a brother with him at New Cheltenham, but is so long ago, mid 50s or so. Funny how things stick in you mind, I can remember them running round the playground, having such unique names. We were RC too, but I think my parents thought it was too far/ awkward to get to St Patrick’s in St George on the bus, with High St just up the hill. I did the St Brendan’s route, Christian Brothers, CTS booklets, retreats etc,when all I wanted to do was try to get to the old Kingswood Grammar School. Used to get the old 14 bus from New Cheltenham to Devon Rd, then walk to Eastville, or the specials from Kingswood Park to Eastville bus garage. The two eldest were RIchard then Henry. In real names Ryszard & Henryk. Antoni then me. Took me bloody years to find out Toni Watola was also from Polish parents. His surname would be pronounced Watowa in Polish. Loads of us about. You gave a great memory of the number 14 bus. That made me smile |
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 26, 2020 16:32:59 GMT
Very sorry to hear your loss of Henry. I seem to remember he had a brother with him at New Cheltenham, but is so long ago, mid 50s or so. Funny how things stick in you mind, I can remember them running round the playground, having such unique names. We were RC too, but I think my parents thought it was too far/ awkward to get to St Patrick’s in St George on the bus, with High St just up the hill. I did the St Brendan’s route, Christian Brothers, CTS booklets, retreats etc,when all I wanted to do was try to get to the old Kingswood Grammar School. Used to get the old 14 bus from New Cheltenham to Devon Rd, then walk to Eastville, or the specials from Kingswood Park to Eastville bus garage. I wonder if you knew if Antoni Pirog, at St.Brendans ? It was our Tone who got me into egg chasing but got pi55y as I was much better than him. I was 8.5 years younger and totally unexpected. Apparently the brothers weren’t too pleased. Mum lost her best ever job too. It seems my being caused some distress. |
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Apr 26, 2020 17:37:52 GMT
I am trying to remember.
I remember Henry, as he was called Henrique Pirog,not sure if I spelt that correctly ,on the school register.
When everybody else seemed to be called Parsons, Smith,Stone or other surnames of the time, he stood out.
The name Pirog would have been familiar to me, but Antoni wasn’t in my classes.so I might not have come across him.
I always thought I was the only kid at St Brendan’s from Kingswood , but we eventually moved away from Kingswood.
There were quite a few boys with Polish surnames as you can imagine.
I can remember being determined not to like rugby, in those days, although I mellowed, as the school seemed to frown upon football, and wouldn’t play it.
I was also quite small at that age, and broke my arm playing in one of the house matches, that did it for me.
I also linked rugby with some of the more affluent parts of Bristol, which Kingswood certainly wasn’t!
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 27, 2020 9:38:19 GMT
I am trying to remember. I remember Henry, as he was called Henrique Pirog,not sure if I spelt that correctly ,on the school register. When everybody else seemed to be called Parsons, Smith,Stone or other surnames of the time, he stood out. The name Pirog would have been familiar to me, but Antoni wasn’t in my classes.so I might not have come across him. I always thought I was the only kid at St Brendan’s from Kingswood , but we eventually moved away from Kingswood. There were quite a few boys with Polish surnames as you can imagine. I can remember being determined not to like rugby, in those days, although I mellowed, as the school seemed to frown upon football, and wouldn’t play it. I was also quite small at that age, and broke my arm playing in one of the house matches, that did it for me. I also linked rugby with some of the more affluent parts of Bristol, which Kingswood certainly wasn’t! It was Henryk. I was supposed to go to St.Brendans, just like all the other boys, from Polish parents but got on the 1st bus so mum could see me, then get off 3 stops up. I would have had to get a second bus, in the centre. My parents eventually got a letter, asking where I was and there was a family meeting, they allowed me to go to what used to be Kingswood grammar school but it then changed to Kingsfield socinday modern. Only enjoyed history, English & French. French because a certain girl had big bazookas 😂. I was captain of football and Rugby and was the school javelin and long jump champion. I was also, by far, the best cross country runner but would purposely come in close to middle of the group, so I wouldn’t be picked for the school team. I hated it My fencing was totally independent of the school and I dare not tell my mates as it was seen as elitist and sissy. Given hindsight I should have gone to St.Brendans as I’d have had better friends and teachers. I left Kingsfield with 6 o levels and then had to go to Brunel to do my A levels as they wouldn’t allow me to stay at Kingsfield as the head just hated me. They had a vote and all the younger teachers voted for me to be allowed but there were more of the older grammar school teachers and I was seen , I quote, as a focus of rebellion 😱😇. I did get into a lot of fights but, to this day, I’ve never ever started one. My polish heritage and my brothers reputations did not reflect kindly upon me and I suffered for their reputations. I still feel sore about it now as my best friends were in sixth form and I missed out a lot due to that, not that having qualifications ever helped me get a job mind you. I would go for labouring work, to be told I’d get bored as I was too intelligent 😂. I did have a hard time with work and had many jobs until I finally got my first shot in sales, the rest is history. I still meet my history teacher. He was the coolest teacher and really saw me thrive, with the right tuition I would like to ask, was Henry as bad as many say ? |
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Post by tenniscourtgas on Apr 27, 2020 11:56:21 GMT
I used to get a special bus from Kingswood via St George, Temple Meads, that used to go to Stockwood Lane in the morning, which would pick up kids on the way who were going to St Brendan’s.
There was no such bus going home in the evenings, I had to go into town, and catch the 8 back to Kingswood.
I have to say I only really enjoyed St Brendan’s in the sixth form, when all the rules were relaxed.
The lower school was too heavy for me, one or two of the Christian brothers were unpleasant, there was the strap, having to wear caps on the buses etc.
It was the 60s after all.
Kingswood Grammar was where a lot of my friends went, it was close by, had girls, and played football, so I was a bit resentful about St Brendan’s.
My parents did what they thought was best for me, and I eventuality did well enough in A levels to go to a Polytechnic in the north.
I have always. wondered “What if.....?’
Henry is one of the children I do remember from all those years ago, probably because lots of kids were scared of him!
Remember, we were all only about six or seven, although he never did anything to me personally.
I can recall him running round the playground winding the kids up, but can’t remember if he got in fights, but he may well have done.
I’m pretty sure, he wasn’t in school all the time, but when he returned, a lot of kids would scatter, then you might not see him again for a while!
I hope life treated him well anyway, but sorry he is no longer with us.
Always enjoy your posts KP on all sorts of topics, you are always balanced,interesting to read, and thoughtful.
I have picked up from your posts that your health isn’t always great, so keep well, take care.
You can be sure that you are making a welcome, and massive contribution to the forums.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Apr 27, 2020 15:37:57 GMT
I used to get a special bus from Kingswood via St George, Temple Meads, that used to go to Stockwood Lane in the morning, which would pick up kids on the way who were going to St Brendan’s. There was no such bus going home in the evenings, I had to go into town, and catch the 8 back to Kingswood. I have to say I only really enjoyed St Brendan’s in the sixth form, when all the rules were relaxed. The lower school was too heavy for me, one or two of the Christian brothers were unpleasant, there was the strap, having to wear caps on the buses etc. It was the 60s after all. Kingswood Grammar was where a lot of my friends went, it was close by, had girls, and played football, so I was a bit resentful about St Brendan’s. My parents did what they thought was best for me, and I eventuality did well enough in A levels to go to a Polytechnic in the north. I have always. wondered “What if.....?’ Henry is one of the children I do remember from all those years ago, probably because lots of kids were scared of him! Remember, we were all only about six or seven, although he never did anything to me personally. I can recall him running round the playground winding the kids up, but can’t remember if he got in fights, but he may well have done. I’m pretty sure, he wasn’t in school all the time, but when he returned, a lot of kids would scatter, then you might not see him again for a while! I hope life treated him well anyway, but sorry he is no longer with us. Always enjoy your posts KP on all sorts of topics, you are always balanced,interesting to read, and thoughtful. I have picked up from your posts that your health isn’t always great, so keep well, take care. You can be sure that you are making a welcome, and massive contribution to the forums. GOD bless you and thank you so much for your kind words. I have to say that it’s this forum that taught me to be more temperate and try not to upset anyone, if I do then I’m quick to apologise. Henry was a religious casualty. The brothers used to beat him, the priest used to beat him and with mothers permission, he then just turned. The reason he was in and out if school was period in approved schools and they turned him into an animal. Due to being Catholic, he had to go to a catholic one, in Kidderminster and the brothers attempted all types of sexual deprivations. He only told me the total truth around a year prior to his death and he broke down, crying and sobbing as he spoke. He never allowed himself to get touched & would beat the crap out of those monks, this just added time to his sentence. He did 3 years instead of 6 months. Poor guy was damaged beyond our belief. He then had a period, living with the hells angels and the die was cast. He was caught, due to Carlo Firreto turning Queens and was given 8 years of which he did 5. It’s all so sad as he was incredibly multi faceted and played rhythm and lead guitar but I mean really well. He taught me a fair bit. He was supposed to be on opportunity knocks but his partner, Jeff Lord, never turned up & bottled it. He pained incredible landscapes & could play any any instrument if he was interested. He got married but divorced after 16 years and left his wife & kid and he then found the true love of his life while working the door at Lourdes. He was 35 and Mary was 17 so it caused quite a scandal but they lived very happily. True to form, everything went tits up when she got a particularly aggressive form of cancer and we thought he would walk he nursed her for 3 years before she died, she had her leg amputated. She was scared to take the bromptons cocktai medication, a mix of diamorphine ( pure Heroin) and cocaine so he would take some first & she would then follow. Long story short, he became an addict through this but no GP woukd support him in getting it and cutting it down so he ended up buying street gear. That’s what finished him. His liver completely failed and it was a very long 2 months on machines yet he was brain dead. We all suffered greatly and begged them to switch off the breathing machine. poor bloke, never stood a chance. I was the only one of the 4 boys who escaped that upbringing. Sorry for the long post but that really is the shortest way to tell you. He was loved by everyone acceot Knowle Westers. May he rest in peace, lord knows, he suffered way too much |
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