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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 11, 2020 10:10:55 GMT
Sorry Swiss, but your Doomsday scenario thinking is wearing a bit thin now. Wael has written to supporters to say that he will continue to fund the football club and he will make the model more sustainable. He does not have the funds for capital investment , but he is writing the cheques to cover the losses. There is absolutely nothing that he has said or written to indicate that he is less than committed. This is where your argument falls down. Maybe he sees Furlough as a test of his football reputation.
The fundamental change may have been that this is now his project, with sad loss of his father and disengagement of his brother. This may force him to seek external investment, but this always comes with a price in terms of control. You know this for a fact? Others say different pray, what do others say then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 10:44:38 GMT
Priceless. So we have someone moaning his head off that wealthy people should be hit in the pocket due to this crisis, then in the next breath he's saying that our multi-millionaire owners should be allowed to dip into public funds to support the club that he supports. The really funny thing is that he probably won't even see, or accept, just how absurd his position is. Its very very unpleasant being on this forum with someone as rude and patronising as you. Every time you post to almost everyone you reply to involves attempting to put down or ridicule that person in the most offensive way you can think of. Even stooping so low as to laugh at a posters grammar or spelling. Whats the point? Why not just put your viewpoint across without all all the other stuff? What's that post got to do with you? Have you said that CEOs and wealthy individuals should help fund the government's response to this crisis and then gone on to say that Rovers' owner, who by the way is a multi millionaire, should dip in to public funds to support a company? I won't insult you by even suggesting that you would hold 2 such contradictory views. That would just make you sound like a bitter, angry left winger, full of envy and spite towards anybody who has done well for themselves, but with no problem at all reaching out a grasping hand to take as much as possible for yourself, and I'm sure that's not you at all. BTW, Branson isn't my 'hero' you mentioned him first, for balance I just highlighted some of the charities he supports and the fact that he's pledged, by agreement with the beneficiaries of his estate, to leave a huge sum to good causes. I was rather hoping that you would come back with a reply worthy of debate, maybe something along the lines of pointing out that Virgin Health sued the NHS, but instead of that you've just launched headlong into a personal assault on me. Take care buddy.
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Peter Parker
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Furlough
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Post by Peter Parker on Apr 11, 2020 10:58:46 GMT
Sorry Swiss, but your Doomsday scenario thinking is wearing a bit thin now. Wael has written to supporters to say that he will continue to fund the football club and he will make the model more sustainable. He does not have the funds for capital investment , but he is writing the cheques to cover the losses. There is absolutely nothing that he has said or written to indicate that he is less than committed. This is where your argument falls down. Maybe he sees Furlough as a test of his football reputation.
The fundamental change may have been that this is now his project, with sad loss of his father and disengagement of his brother. This may force him to seek external investment, but this always comes with a price in terms of control. You know this for a fact? Others say different So who is 'writing' the cheques Roy?
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Apr 11, 2020 11:09:14 GMT
Priceless. So we have someone moaning his head off that wealthy people should be hit in the pocket due to this crisis, then in the next breath he's saying that our multi-millionaire owners should be allowed to dip into public funds to support the club that he supports. The really funny thing is that he probably won't even see, or accept, just how absurd his position is. Its very very unpleasant being on this forum with someone as rude and patronising as you. Every time you post to almost everyone you reply to involves attempting to put down or ridicule that person in the most offensive way you can think of. Even stooping so low as to laugh at a posters grammar or spelling. Whats the point? Why not just put your viewpoint across without all all the other stuff? Don’t take it too personally vertigo. This is a forum with posters with a range of opinions and ways of expressing it. Most are happy to engage in a bit of banter but I get that some may feel under fire at times when that “banter” gets sarcastic and personal which I suppose can take some getting used to. I guess we all have our own style of posting, some more combative than others. A bit like life really!! 😉 I limit my thoughts to BRFC and stuff surrounding it and steer away from getting personal which doesn’t mean I don’t have my thoughts about others! Stay safe. ps. I guess at the moment a lot of posters will have more time to engage with different threads due to the situation and this whole forum has got busier which is great. And everyone might be feeling just that extra bit of frustration with what’s happening generally. (Epping and others have done a great job over the past few months to reinvigorate this place)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 12:16:29 GMT
Its very very unpleasant being on this forum with someone as rude and patronising as you. Every time you post to almost everyone you reply to involves attempting to put down or ridicule that person in the most offensive way you can think of. Even stooping so low as to laugh at a posters grammar or spelling. Whats the point? Why not just put your viewpoint across without all all the other stuff? What's that post got to do with you? Have you said that CEOs and wealthy individuals should help fund the government's response to this crisis and then gone on to say that Rovers' owner, who by the way is a multi millionaire, should dip in to public funds to support a company? I won't insult you by even suggesting that you would hold 2 such contradictory views. That would just make you sound like a bitter, angry left winger, full of envy and spite towards anybody who has done well for themselves, but with no problem at all reaching out a grasping hand to take as much as possible for yourself, and I'm sure that's not you at all. BTW, Branson isn't my 'hero' you mentioned him first, for balance I just highlighted some of the charities he supports and the fact that he's pledged, by agreement with the beneficiaries of his estate, to leave a huge sum to good causes. I was rather hoping that you would come back with a reply worthy of debate, maybe something along the lines of pointing out that Virgin Health sued the NHS, but instead of that you've just launched headlong into a personal assault on me. Take care buddy. I am well aware that branson sued the health service.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 14:26:13 GMT
What's that post got to do with you? Have you said that CEOs and wealthy individuals should help fund the government's response to this crisis and then gone on to say that Rovers' owner, who by the way is a multi millionaire, should dip in to public funds to support a company? I won't insult you by even suggesting that you would hold 2 such contradictory views. That would just make you sound like a bitter, angry left winger, full of envy and spite towards anybody who has done well for themselves, but with no problem at all reaching out a grasping hand to take as much as possible for yourself, and I'm sure that's not you at all. BTW, Branson isn't my 'hero' you mentioned him first, for balance I just highlighted some of the charities he supports and the fact that he's pledged, by agreement with the beneficiaries of his estate, to leave a huge sum to good causes. I was rather hoping that you would come back with a reply worthy of debate, maybe something along the lines of pointing out that Virgin Health sued the NHS, but instead of that you've just launched headlong into a personal assault on me. Take care buddy. I am well aware that branson sued the health service. So why not use that to counter the points I made about his philanthropy? Instead you did what you always do, reply with an insult laden post claiming that you've been insulted. Now, let's get back to the point. On one hand you want wealthy people to pay more, on the other you want our wealthy owner to dip his hand into public funds. Can you help me reconcile those 2 apparently contradictory positions please?
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Post by swissgas on Apr 11, 2020 14:30:18 GMT
Sorry Swiss, but your Doomsday scenario thinking is wearing a bit thin now. Wael has written to supporters to say that he will continue to fund the football club and he will make the model more sustainable. He does not have the funds for capital investment, but he is writing the cheques to cover the losses. There is absolutely nothing that he has said or written to indicate that he is less than committed. This is where your argument falls down. Maybe he sees Furlough as a test of his football reputation. The fundamental change may have been that this is now his project, with sad loss of his father and disengagement of his brother. This may force him to seek external investment, but this always comes with a price in terms of control. Why not put forward your own scenario Vaughan ? From what you say it sounds as though you think Wael will continue funding the club to whatever amount is necessary while his management team implement a plan to make the club sustainable by bringing the losses of 4 million per year down to a level which Wael can pay for. While this is going on, and because he personally doesn’t have funds to finance capital investment, he will be on the look out for someone to come in with him and fund a new stadium and training ground. This may be the basic plan but it would be good to put some meat on the bones so Gasheads know what we have to look forward to over the next few years.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 11, 2020 15:18:20 GMT
You told us all the equity on the mem was used up months ago and that they would never pay any of their own money out. So whats going on ? Surely now would be the time to bale out and cut your losses? But we still exist. Any explanation for this strange turn of events? I’m happy to have a go at an explanation Vertigo. Regarding Wael supposedly paying the staff wages during this difficult period I’m not sure exactly what that means. When Martyn Starnes said we were lucky to have an owner who was fully committed and would continue to support the club during this crisis many fans jumped at it as confirmation that Wael was the “good bloke” they always thought he was. Martyn didn’t say specifically how Wael was going to provide this support but, again, many fans imagined he would be writing out cheques from his personal account and depositing them directly with Rovers bank so that all wages could be paid. That is a wonderfully comforting thought to have and something of a stress reliever at this time but I suspect the reality is a little different. I think Wael will continue extending the amount of Rovers credit line and continue to funnel cash into the Dwane Sports Jersey account to fund this. And he’ll do so because in the short term he doesn’t have much choice. The post from KP in which he said he thought that Hani had ceased his association with Rovers but that Wael’s mother had been persuaded to support Wael is quite believable. The equity in the Mem was used up a long time ago as the 2019 accounts showed and anyone seriously wanting to get out would have cut their losses a year or more ago, sold the Mem for development and passed the liability of the football club for free to anyone who would take it. But Wael doesn’t want to get out and it appears is willing to risk an awful lot to keep hold of all or a substantial part of the club for himself Although Martyn Starnes denied it the club has been for sale for a long time and the agent, based in the Home Counties, must have had a very frustrating time trying to persuade potential buyers that he was serious about an asking price of 18 million. IMO Wael lives in a world of his own and despite having a wife and family to think of he carries on spending money as if it’s supply was unlimited. This might seem lovely for Gasheads looking for “positives” but in reality there is a very good chance it will end in calamity both for Wael and Rovers. We live at a time when money is being printed in vast quantities and, understandably, most people prefer not to think of the consequences. For Rovers the money is apparently still flowing in but the day will come when it stops and it’s the consequences of that happening which is so concerning and which anyone with Rovers best interests at heart should be willing to discuss now. In most cases the ground for a team to play at would still be available for a fresh start either because it was leased or because it could not be used for other purposes. And in most cases, where a business ceased and a fresh start was necessary, the owner would be relieved to step aside and no longer have the financial burden on his back. But in Rovers case I should not be at all surprised if, when the inevitable happens, a fresh start under the name BRFC will not be straightforward. Firstly because there will be nowhere to play since the Mem will be sold for development, secondly because Wael will try to find a way of playing a significant part in the new club which will put off new investors and thirdly because the fan base will be totally demoralized and divided. As always with my posts like this please take it with a pinch of salt if you wish but it would be interesting to hear posters put forward a realistic ( and hopefully more uplifting) alternative scenario. Hi Swiss - Are you saying with the equity from the Memorial Stadium now gone, Bristol Rovers can still access unsecured lending from Dwane Sports via the revolving credit facility? So effectively the internal debt just keeps going up - just that it's riskier debt to Dwane Sports as the debt is not secured solely against collateral (the Memorial Stadium). If Dwane Sports were writing out cheques to cover losses (and not IOU's +interest) - then surely we would have heard about it as this is actual proof that they are writing off some of the debt. Yes?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Apr 11, 2020 15:25:53 GMT
Priceless. So we have someone moaning his head off that wealthy people should be hit in the pocket due to this crisis, then in the next breath he's saying that our multi-millionaire owners should be allowed to dip into public funds to support the club that he supports. The really funny thing is that he probably won't even see, or accept, just how absurd his position is. Its very very unpleasant being on this forum with someone as rude and patronising as you. Every time you post to almost everyone you reply to involves attempting to put down or ridicule that person in the most offensive way you can think of. Even stooping so low as to laugh at a posters grammar or spelling. Whats the point? Why not just put your viewpoint across without all all the other stuff? I don't think it's really a case of 'laughing at a posters grammar or spelling'... that would be unpleasant. But there are a few pedants (guilty as charged) who occasionally point out inaccuracies - as poor punctuation can lead to a misunderstandings. Just a comma or full stop can make a lot of difference. I've given up drinking for a month I've given up. Drinking for a month.
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knowall
Joined: August 2019
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Post by knowall on Apr 11, 2020 16:20:36 GMT
You know this for a fact? Others say different So who is 'writing' the cheques Roy? Is anyone? - You tell me
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Post by swissgas on Apr 11, 2020 16:22:12 GMT
I’m happy to have a go at an explanation Vertigo. Hi Swiss - Are you saying with the equity from the Memorial Stadium now gone, Bristol Rovers can still access unsecured lending from Dwane Sports via the revolving credit facility? So effectively the internal debt just keeps going up - just that it's riskier debt to Dwane Sports as the debt is not secured solely against collateral (the Memorial Stadium). If Dwane Sports were writing out cheques to cover losses (and not IOU's +interest) - then surely we would have heard about it as this is actual proof that they are writing off some of the debt. Yes? Yes, my take on this is that Wael is arranging for cash to flow into Dwane Sports Jersey account and then onwards to Rovers credit line which now exceeds the value of the Mem by a substantial amount. In effect Wael is sacrificing some of his and perhaps another member of his family’s personal wealth to keep Rovers going because there is little chance the full amount of the loan and accrued interest will ever be repaid. But before we say “three cheers for Wael” we must ask ourselves whether any good is likely to come out of a situation where someone is prejudicing the wellbeing of their immediate family because of an infatuation with a football club. And whether we think Wael has the ability to either reduce losses to a level he can personally sustain or to find someone else who will join with him to provide funds to keep the club in existence ?
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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 11, 2020 17:12:45 GMT
So who is 'writing' the cheques Roy? Is anyone? - You tell me that seems to me like another content-free contribution
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 17:41:11 GMT
that seems to me like another content-free contribution It really is getting boring isn’t it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 17:54:15 GMT
I am well aware that branson sued the health service. So why not use that to counter the points I made about his philanthropy? Instead you did what you always do, reply with an insult laden post claiming that you've been insulted. Now, let's get back to the point. On one hand you want wealthy people to pay more, on the other you want our wealthy owner to dip his hand into public funds. Can you help me reconcile those 2 apparently contradictory positions please? I have not stated that i believe wealthy people should pay more. What i said is that its unfair to target footballers. It should either be all very wealthy people pay more or nobody in my view. Lots of companies with multi millionaire owners are now using the government furlough scheme so whats so special about rovers?
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on Apr 11, 2020 18:08:08 GMT
So who is 'writing' the cheques Roy? Is anyone? - You tell me Why would I know? I dont pretend to know anything about how the club is run. All I know is i can read the accounts and deduced someone is funding operating losses Its about time some people blow the lid of the Al-Qadi ownership as its been a long two years or so of innuendo and insinuations, but zero substance
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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 11, 2020 18:22:37 GMT
that seems to me like another content-free contribution It really is getting boring isn’t it. I always think that people like to play the options that they are best at. Sadly, I fear that is very much the case here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 19:20:23 GMT
So why not use that to counter the points I made about his philanthropy? Instead you did what you always do, reply with an insult laden post claiming that you've been insulted. Now, let's get back to the point. On one hand you want wealthy people to pay more, on the other you want our wealthy owner to dip his hand into public funds. Can you help me reconcile those 2 apparently contradictory positions please? I have not stated that i believe wealthy people should pay more. What i said is that its unfair to target footballers. It should either be all very wealthy people pay more or nobody in my view. Lots of companies with multi millionaire owners are now using the government furlough scheme so whats so special about rovers? Firstly, your post contradicts itself, but I think I understand the point you are trying to make. Right here is where you said that wealthy people should pay more. This is also where you decided it was a good idea to have a go at Branson, despite him helping multiple charities every day, helping countless start up businesses to help youngsters fulfil their potential and pledging a fortune to good causes; So, for the 4th time, how are you going to square this with saying that our multi-millionaire owner should use public funds to pay his staff? Nothing is special about Rovers, or their owner. It's you singling out wealthy people and sticking the boot in to them, nobody else, so it's you who has to explain the obvious and irreconcilable contradiction in what you are saying. So, let's just follow through your statement above, a scheme is set up, I wealthy person (wealthy as yet not defined) doesn't agree with all of the others. What are you going to do now? Scrap an entire scheme, or on the other hand, force it on the majority? You haven't thought this through, have you.
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Post by johnmalyckyj on Apr 11, 2020 20:03:24 GMT
So who is 'writing' the cheques Roy? Is anyone? - You tell me Have you managed to count all the Presidents Club members yet? I have asked you twice on the other thread and you still haven't provided an answer or have you furloughed the person who could answer it? Regards John Malyckyj
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vaughan
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Furlough
Apr 11, 2020 20:18:47 GMT
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Post by vaughan on Apr 11, 2020 20:18:47 GMT
It has been alleged by Tote End Brian on other Forum that it was the Presidents Club that instigated the letter to the EFL. This was undersigned by the SC.
Could Knowall substantiate that?
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Post by a more piratey game on Apr 11, 2020 20:20:30 GMT
It has been alleged by Tote End Brian on other Forum that it was the Presidents Club that instigated the letter to the EFL. This was undersigned by the SC. Could Knowall substantiate that? I believe that fanny has said on here that the PC weren't involved. I'm not sure if I know how to trawl for it
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