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Post by Portishead Pirate on Mar 26, 2020 13:31:56 GMT
June '19 Accounts now filed at Companies House: link here. This is the FC rather than 1883 though and presumably 1883 will look to hold some sort of virtual online AGM??? Edit: The 1883 accounts have also now been filed: link
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lockleazer
Tarki Micalleff
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 411
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Post by lockleazer on Mar 27, 2020 2:21:08 GMT
I see Hani has resigned as a director of Dwayne Developments UK Ltd ....if any significance?? Leaves only wael in charge of that now
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Post by gasheadpirate on Mar 27, 2020 7:45:36 GMT
1883 loss at £4.1m. Wow.
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 27, 2020 9:18:54 GMT
£16.2m owed to Dwane Don't know what the £4.4m other creditors is likely made up of
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 27, 2020 9:49:22 GMT
£16.2m owed to Dwane Don't know what the £4.4m other creditors is likely made up of £4.1mil?!? Year on year losses have increased? (Sorry not read the accounts, I don't fully understand them). On a 'positive' note - does this imply that Dwane Sports ARE actually putting in their own money? The debt must surely now exceed the value of the Memorial Stadium. As a side note - with equity markets sick as a pig, then surely this will have a massive effect on asset prices. Things like large parcels of land in Horfield. AMPG - could you do a bit more forensics on the numbers? Swissgas - HHHHEEELLLPPPPP - We need a grown-up to help us with the accounts.
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Post by Portishead Pirate on Mar 27, 2020 10:06:24 GMT
No disclosure (notes to the accounts) this year re share capital and reserves. Auditors have taken advantage of "section 1A" of FRS102 to not do this. However I do question whether a "Statement of Changes in Equity" should have been included as a primary statement.
The movement in share capital is £888 increase which equals 8,880 ord shares of 10p and equates to what the SC have paid over.
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 27, 2020 10:19:32 GMT
£16.2m owed to Dwane Don't know what the £4.4m other creditors is likely made up of £4.1mil?!? Year on year losses have increased? (Sorry not read the accounts, I don't fully understand them). On a 'positive' note - does this imply that Dwane Sports ARE actually putting in their own money? The debt must surely now exceed the value of the Memorial Stadium. As a side note - with equity markets sick as a pig, then surely this will have a massive effect on asset prices. Things like large parcels of land in Horfield. AMPG - could you do a bit more forensics on the numbers? Swissgas - HHHHEEELLLPPPPP - We need a grown-up to help us with the accounts. We know that they have put £16.2m cash in, or thereabouts, as a loan We have thought this loan secured by the stadium - but they still had to find the cash readies. And we don't know where they get those from A stadium, a bit like the overgrown Colony field, is an illiquid asset. And the value of assets can, as we are finding out, vary up and down at surprisingly short notice The other £4.4m seems a high number. Who would trust 1183, as financially stretched as it is, to repay that much? Maybe it is cumulative commitments on player transfers and contracts, which was planned to be offset by transfer and general income
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 27, 2020 10:40:32 GMT
Even worse than expected after TG made his slip
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,255
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 27, 2020 10:42:05 GMT
£16.2m owed to Dwane Don't know what the £4.4m other creditors is likely made up of £4.1mil?!? Year on year losses have increased? (Sorry not read the accounts, I don't fully understand them). On a 'positive' note - does this imply that Dwane Sports ARE actually putting in their own money? The debt must surely now exceed the value of the Memorial Stadium. As a side note - with equity markets sick as a pig, then surely this will have a massive effect on asset prices. Things like large parcels of land in Horfield. ampg - could you do a bit more forensics on the numbers? swissgas - HHHHEEELLLPPPPP - We need a grown-up to help us with the accounts. It seems very strange that the losses have increased when there was no expense on UWE, which was used as a reason for that, last year
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 27, 2020 11:22:01 GMT
1883 Group has a turnover of £6.4m (up from £5.8m - good!), 186 employees on average, and an annual loss of £4.1m. The total value of 1183 is minus £17.2m
these are games for fairly big boys (and girls)
1883 Company has a positive value of £6.4m. This is mainly because they are owed £14m by Group, and because it owns an investment property valued at £11.1m, which I'm guessing is the Mem's deemed cost value
note that the total difference of these two items is +£25m
Page 18 notes that it is pledged as a security on the loan between Dwane and 1883 Company. I'm not sure how this is accounted between the Company and Group - in the Group there is a cost value of £10m land and buildings now depreciated/impaired down to £2.7m (which seems a lot of depreciation). Maybe it's £10m for the Mem and £1m for the Colony - I'm just guessing
maybe someone more familiar than me with accounts, especially BRFC accounts, can shed more light....
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 27, 2020 11:27:55 GMT
£4.1mil?!? Year on year losses have increased? (Sorry not read the accounts, I don't fully understand them). On a 'positive' note - does this imply that Dwane Sports ARE actually putting in their own money? The debt must surely now exceed the value of the Memorial Stadium. As a side note - with equity markets sick as a pig, then surely this will have a massive effect on asset prices. Things like large parcels of land in Horfield. ampg - could you do a bit more forensics on the numbers? swissgas - HHHHEEELLLPPPPP - We need a grown-up to help us with the accounts. It seems very strange that the losses have increased when there was no expense on UWE, which was used as a reason for that, last year the big difference is in Cost of Sales - up £1.1m - although interest payable (which is probably to DS, and so a bit 'notional' at this stage) is up £250k I'm guessing that Cost of Sales is mainly players' salaries, but there is no breakdown given donations from support organisations is down from £90k to £65k (still quite an impressive number IMO) maybe the UWE expenses were all written off previously?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,123
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 27, 2020 11:47:27 GMT
It seems very strange that the losses have increased when there was no expense on UWE, which was used as a reason for that, last year the big difference is in Cost of Sales - up £1.1m - although interest payable (which is probably to DS, and so a bit 'notional' at this stage) is up £250k I'm guessing that Cost of Sales is mainly players' salaries, but there is no breakdown given donations from support organisations is down from £90k to £65k (still quite an impressive number IMO) maybe the UWE expenses were all written off previously? Thanks for making some sense around the numbers AMPG. I am pretty damn sure that the UWE expenses were all written off in previous years. My (simplistic) conclusion is that Dwane Sports must be plugging the 'gap'. Unless the value of the Memorial Stadium stands at an inflated value? Sensible people suggest this is circa £18mil. "But that was then, and this, this is now".
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Post by PessimistGas on Mar 27, 2020 13:36:30 GMT
Might have got worked up about this a few weeks ago but hardly seems important now.
Things will carry on as they are until DS are no longer happy to keep plugging the gap. Just a case of when that time will come, not if.
I think that there is a day of reckoning coming about football operates in this country anyway and the CV situation will massively accelerate this.
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Post by fatherjackhackett on Mar 27, 2020 13:43:25 GMT
Might have got worked up about this a few weeks ago but hardly seems important now. Things will carry on as they are until DS are no longer happy to keep plugging the gap. Just a case of when that time will come, not if. I think that there is a day of reckoning coming about football operates in this country anyway and the CV situation will massively accelerate this. Agree. The days of over inflated wages because someone can kick a ball quite well are coming to an end. Will be back to the early years at Twerton I reckon, where the players are on not much more than the fans, and socialised regularly with them.
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Post by lostinspace on Mar 27, 2020 14:10:54 GMT
Might have got worked up about this a few weeks ago but hardly seems important now. Things will carry on as they are until DS are no longer happy to keep plugging the gap. Just a case of when that time will come, not if. I think that there is a day of reckoning coming about football operates in this country anyway and the CV situation will massively accelerate this. Agree. The days of over inflated wages because someone can kick a ball quite well are coming to an end. Will be back to the early years at Twerton I reckon, where the players are on not much more than the fans, and socialised regularly with them. as long as SKY/BT Sports are happy to dish the dosh, and those willing to pay for their subs' then the upper echelon will survive pretty much as they are now, it will be the "strugglers" in Championship and below that i expect will feel the cold from this Virus
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 14:34:03 GMT
Agree. The days of over inflated wages because someone can kick a ball quite well are coming to an end. Will be back to the early years at Twerton I reckon, where the players are on not much more than the fans, and socialised regularly with them. as long as SKY/BT Sports are happy to dish the dosh, and those willing to pay for their subs' then the upper echelon will survive pretty much as they are now, it will be the "strugglers" in Championship and below that i expect will feel the cold from this Virus Exactly this. You then get a position where half-arsed TV packages and immoral sponsorship from betting companies are needed to finance the 2nd tier, or you would need to scrap promotion and relegation between the first and second divisions. Or, of course, you can structure the 'regulations' so that a wealthy individual can write off £72,000,000 of loans to a club. At that level it's nothing to do with the money, it's about being on a yacht party with people like the Galziers or Stan Kroenke and just casually dropping in to the conversation that you happen to own one of those British Premier Division socca clubs.
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bloogas
Joined: July 2016
Posts: 1,091
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Post by bloogas on Mar 27, 2020 17:53:44 GMT
Might have got worked up about this a few weeks ago but hardly seems important now. Things will carry on as they are until DS are no longer happy to keep plugging the gap. Just a case of when that time will come, not if. I think that there is a day of reckoning coming about football operates in this country anyway and the CV situation will massively accelerate this. Agree. The days of over inflated wages because someone can kick a ball quite well are coming to an end. Will be back to the early years at Twerton I reckon, where the players are on not much more than the fans, and socialised regularly with them. FWIW - Sticks in my memory that after the 72/3 (was then, wasn't it?) promotion season the late great Lindsay Parsons celebrations resulted in a motoring offence. In the ensuing Court case his earnings were revealed - same as a skilled working man at the upper end of the pay scale. Those were the days.
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bondigas
Joined: December 2017
Posts: 370
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Post by bondigas on Mar 27, 2020 18:05:37 GMT
I think in the trade this is known as a soft audit, accountants that will do what you say. What is a worry is on page 11 of the accounts, "Hani Al Qadi confirmed his intention to maintain support for a 12 month period from the signing of these accounts" Yeah, it's my intention to enter the lottery tomorrow, doesn't mean I will though does it. In previous accounts it has always been stated that Hani Al Qadi will support the club as a going concern for a further year. The football finance guy from Liverpool University is right, when you switch accountants there is a reason, you can play them.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 19:40:02 GMT
£16.2m owed to Dwane Don't know what the £4.4m other creditors is likely made up of VAT, PAYE?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 19:40:37 GMT
Get to work Swissgas, your services are required.
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