gaslife
Joined: August 2015
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Post by gaslife on Mar 8, 2020 16:58:34 GMT
What do Maher and Mansel do, hard to imagine they are soft on the players! This idea of loosing the changing room is difficult to understand, these guys are professional and have to play for the now and the future. Will under performing players be signed by anyone else, just based on previous performances? Maybe their agents have already been looking. My guess is that the 2 you mention are led by Ben and so are limited in what they can do or, in this case, not do The club needs a strong experienced Manager of the traditional style, that can rebuild on and off the pitch. We wont be relegated this season, thanks to Coughlan, so a good time to clear out the deadwood - and that includes Mansell.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 19:28:53 GMT
Don't agree with the op.
I do think there are factions now in the dressing room and not sure that garner and the other coaches are united. There is also this nagging suspicion that garner was tapped up well before coughlan left and that coughlan got short shrift when he tried to talk about january targets. This of course is just suspicion.
The team are confused and their confidence is shot to pieces. I believe the club can stick to the basic plan if they get a wiser and more experienced manager at the club.
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laughinggas
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Post by laughinggas on Mar 8, 2020 19:33:04 GMT
Not sure why you bring up GC there. Given you like speculation, the popular stories are that the players did not like him!
GC has gone, it's all been talked to death with ITK, guesses, speculation and rumour. Can't see the mileage in discussing him any more
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Post by mangogas15 on Mar 8, 2020 19:40:49 GMT
Some really interesting perspectives from contributors to this thread, thank you. Steve and Mrs Smegma, I do hope you're right. Apologies for the "gutless tossers" remark. There was no need No need to apologise - it’s all opinions. One thing I really admire about you is your optimism rather than the grim pessimism and perhaps reality that a number of us wallow in. It’s partly what makes you such great company - the wicked sense of humour helps too. Especially passionate opinions just after losing. I felt the same last week
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LPGas
Stuart Taylor
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Post by LPGas on Mar 8, 2020 19:42:22 GMT
Don't agree with the op. I do think there are factions now in the dressing room and not sure that garner and the other coaches are united. There is also this nagging suspicion that garner was tapped up well before coughlan left and that coughlan got short shrift when he tried to talk about january targets. This of course is just suspicion. The team are confused and their confidence is shot to pieces. I believe the club can stick to the basic plan if they get a wiser and more experienced manager at the club. I can tell you as FACT Coughlin was told there was no money available for players, I can also tell you that Garner was at the Mem the 2 home games before Coughlin left (eased out)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 20:23:53 GMT
Some really interesting perspectives from contributors to this thread, thank you. Steve and Mrs Smegma, I do hope you're right. Apologies for the "gutless tossers" remark. There was no need No need to apologise - it’s all opinions. One thing I really admire about you is your optimism rather than the grim pessimism and perhaps reality that a number of us wallow in. It’s partly what makes you such great company - the wicked sense of humour helps too. Thank you my friend. That's a really decent thing to say. Hell in a hand cart is probably an accurate summary, I just hope we stay in purgatory and then come back to what passes for normality for Rovers. 🙂
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Post by irenestoyboy on Mar 8, 2020 20:57:16 GMT
Don't agree with the op. I do think there are factions now in the dressing room and not sure that garner and the other coaches are united. There is also this nagging suspicion that garner was tapped up well before coughlan left and that coughlan got short shrift when he tried to talk about january targets. This of course is just suspicion. The team are confused and their confidence is shot to pieces. I believe the club can stick to the basic plan if they get a wiser and more experienced manager at the club. I can tell you as FACT Coughlin was told there was no money available for players, I can also tell you that Garner was at the Mem the 2 home games before Coughlin left (eased out) Is that so? So where did the money come from for BG to spend in the window then? Your source must know why they were trying to push GC out so what was the reason? Doesn’t make any s sense.
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basel
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Post by basel on Mar 8, 2020 20:58:23 GMT
Don't agree with the op. I do think there are factions now in the dressing room and not sure that garner and the other coaches are united. There is also this nagging suspicion that garner was tapped up well before coughlan left and that coughlan got short shrift when he tried to talk about january targets. This of course is just suspicion. The team are confused and their confidence is shot to pieces. I believe the club can stick to the basic plan if they get a wiser and more experienced manager at the club. I can tell you as FACT Coughlin was told there was no money available for players, I can also tell you that Garner was at the Mem the 2 home games before Coughlin left (eased out) Well if this is a fact it shows me what extremely poor judgement WAQ has shown. Absolutely appalling. As for DrFs opening post,well it must be demoralising week in,week out, being involved in awful confused performances -1 win in 18 is'nt it? - because your Boss lacks what it takes. I think the players did try,but have had their enthusiasm drained out of them by Ben Garners incompetence. The squad is fine ,GC showed us this. Ben Garner is not
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Mar 8, 2020 21:10:34 GMT
No need to apologise - it’s all opinions. One thing I really admire about you is your optimism rather than the grim pessimism and perhaps reality that a number of us wallow in. It’s partly what makes you such great company - the wicked sense of humour helps too. Thank you my friend. That's a really decent thing to say. Hell in a hand cart is probably an accurate summary, I just hope we stay in purgatory and then come back to what passes for normality for Rovers. 🙂 Ever thus with Rovers. To think I have inflicted this madness on my two boys as well. I just can't bring myself to take them again at the moment with things as they are. It's absolutely killing any feeling they have for the club.
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Rex
Predictions League
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Post by Rex on Mar 8, 2020 21:17:38 GMT
Don't agree with the op. I do think there are factions now in the dressing room and not sure that garner and the other coaches are united. There is also this nagging suspicion that garner was tapped up well before coughlan left and that coughlan got short shrift when he tried to talk about january targets. This of course is just suspicion. The team are confused and their confidence is shot to pieces. I believe the club can stick to the basic plan if they get a wiser and more experienced manager at the club. I can tell you as FACT Coughlin was told there was no money available for players, I can also tell you that Garner was at the Mem the 2 home games before Coughlin left (eased out) This makes it true
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Post by Mrs V Smegma on Mar 8, 2020 21:20:09 GMT
I can tell you as FACT Coughlin was told there was no money available for players, I can also tell you that Garner was at the Mem the 2 home games before Coughlin left (eased out) Is that so? So where did the money come from for BG to spend in the window then? Your source must know why they were trying to push GC out so what was the reason? Doesn’t make any s sense. None of it makes any sense ITB. From the way GC left and the reasons he gave, to the decision to radically change footballing philosophy, dismantle a squad in 4th place in the league, and gamble on developing and selling young players under the direction of a laptop manager. This is clearly revolution not evolution.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 9, 2020 9:22:17 GMT
Maybe their agents have already been looking. My guess is that the 2 you mention are led by Ben and so are limited in what they can do or, in this case, not do The club needs a strong experienced Manager of the traditional style, that can rebuild on and off the pitch. We wont be relegated this season, thanks to Coughlan, so a good time to clear out the deadwood - and that includes Mansell. Good post, gaslife.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 9, 2020 9:29:39 GMT
Agree with o p about what they are doing.
Disagree with the gutless tossers comments.
Why? Because some of those players have been loyal servants to the club, and that earns respect.
Because the right manager can turn the underperforming, average players into a success.
Ergo, we have the wrong manager.
As a side note, the first thing an underperforming manager does is blame his/her staff to cover up their misgivings. Imagine in industry or business you have a boss come in above you that knows nothing about your job because they've never done it? The approach has to be correct. It's hardly a good start.
BG may be a good coach, but manager he most definitely isn't, and this whole experiment needs to be kicked into touch before any lasting damage occurs.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Mar 9, 2020 9:41:17 GMT
M-L is too good for League 1 but it'll toughen him up a bit. He's the only loanee in recent years to actually play like he means it longer than the first two or so games. Him, Ginnelly and Abraham have enough pace and guile between them to form a potent front three with Daly supporting.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 11:15:40 GMT
Not sure why you bring up GC there. Given you like speculation, the popular stories are that the players did not like him! GC has gone, it's all been talked to death with ITK, guesses, speculation and rumour. Can't see the mileage in discussing him any more I brought up coughlan because something stinks about his departure and it could well have impacted on how they reacted to garner. But your right of course because it is just speculation.
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Post by fanatical on Mar 9, 2020 11:44:12 GMT
I don’t think this is the case. My gut feeling is that most of the players don’t understand what is being asked of them and that Benny is massively overcomplicating things where GC simplified. I base this on the way we have set out our stall in the games i have seen since the change. The clearest example of this was the two banks of two in midfield against Doncaster which just surrendered midfield to them and allowed them to pass around us at will by pushing their full backs up field. When things are clearly not working we introduce an even more chaotic system. Garner is the problem here not the players. He’s a managerial equivalent to Francis Maude - barking ideas that have no grounding in reality I agree. I don’t think we have a bitter player who was looked over for the managers job ringleading a bunch of senior pros to try and stage a coup. What I see is a young coach full of ideas that potentially could come off, but only with players better than we could ever dream of signing in a league we will never get to. This is L1. 442 or 352 are the formations used and the players here are the ones you can manage them more on desire and motivation than you can on technical ability to get you results. To say his injuries are what has held the group back is nonsense. GC was without Hare and Little for longer. GC was without JCH for the first 3 games and then a further 4 games. GC also had injuries to Ollie Clarke, Liam Sercombe and Tom Davies. He still managed with what he had. BG has signed 7 players in the window that should have improved us, but has come nowhere near. We are also now playing with belief, passion or enthusiasm as well as no structure or tactics. Out of the 19 games in charge I can only think of 2 where we deserved to win. Bolton and Blackpool, and that was only because they had a man sent off. I’m as patient as anyone but this kid hasn’t got what it takes. If I’m wrong and if he’s still here next season and we sit top of the league after 10 games I’ll donate £200 to the FFSC. I AGREE! When Gerry was manager I stood on the sideline at the training ground most weeks with Ron Craig and watched as Gerry put the team through the moves for the forthcoming match. And every week it was the same routine - Gerry would have them walk a few paces forward and tell a player where to play the ball, a few paces more, and the same again and so on until they reached the penalty area. Take them back and do all that again. And again, And again. Week after week the same routine. When asked why? Gerry's answer was 'I have to tell them the same things every week because they forget, they are not top division players who you tell once and they remember, these are lower division players who cannot retain the instructions'. Ask players of that era for confirmation and I imagine they will confirm, Our current manager has worked with higher division players and if you listened to his match summary he said that 'for some unknown reason the players are not carrying out what we have told them to do'. I suggest the above is the answer, and unfortunately when players are losing match after match, the rot sets in and they do not have the fight and the passion any more. It is going to take something special to get their mojo's back.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Mar 9, 2020 11:47:40 GMT
The latest rumour doing the rounds is that Coughlan dipped his stick and his missus gave him two options. You really couldn't make it up.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 9, 2020 12:13:47 GMT
The latest rumour doing the rounds is that Coughlan dipped his stick and his missus gave him two options. You really couldn't make it up. If true then not the only one but I shall remain tight lipped on it as I could get into serious legal problems
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Mar 9, 2020 21:30:01 GMT
M-L is too good for League 1 but it'll toughen him up a bit. He's the only loanee in recent years to actually play like he means it longer than the first two or so games. Him, Ginnelly and Abraham have enough pace and guile between them to form a potent front three with Daly supporting. But only if we get them the ball in space otherwise they get squashed. None of those players can play in midfield traffic and Abraham can't play with his back to goal very well. That's a lot of players to have on the pitch who need to have space created for them and we don't even give them the chance by playing with width. Maybe they'll adapt but it's asking a hell of a lot of young inexperienced players. That's my main issue with Garner. He doesn't seem to grasp that space needs to be earned at this level. You can't just pick a load of inexperienced skilled players and assume they'll be able to impact the game. I don't imagine it's an aspect of the game he's had to think about much before. Those players may well be good enough to play through teams the way he wants to and in the right circumstances they could be dominant (Ginnelly bossed the game at Bolton) but it'll take time for them to adjust to the physicality. In the meantime they're being bullied off the ball (particularly in home games where sides sit back) and that can't be doing their confidence any good. They are being set-up to fail and we are making life pretty easy for our opponents.
To get them space we'd need either 1 (or ideally several) proper ball winning centre midfield players capable of getting us on the front foot quickly or dynamic running midfield players or a back 4 capable of distributing the ball well and working players in front of them into space. We have none of that so it doesn't work and instead our inexperienced skilled attackers constantly get the ball from a standing start and are faced with 3/4 defenders within 10 yards of them. Good luck with that!
The problem with Garner as I see it is not necessarily his overall tactical approach. It's that he's trying to build his side from the fringes and neglected the spine, which is always a recipe for disaster. You surely can't impose a pattern of play from the front 3 back.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Mar 10, 2020 13:04:57 GMT
So harry are these rumours you’ve picked up, heard, or whatever. Or are they what you’re saying putting two and two together? Serious question. Are you ITK? 😉 UTG!
edit: sorry should have included harrys original post about players leaving on page 1.
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