kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 3, 2020 11:39:40 GMT
stevek192 I won’t go into any detail as it’s not a strongpoint of mine but we have no midfielder that can get the ball and run with it. We just get scythed through, week in, week out. It’s awful to watch and makes us easy to attack. I’m basucally agreeing with you but in simplified terms. Thank God for GC’s points or we would, no doubt, be in a very precarious position
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Post by stevek192 on Mar 3, 2020 12:03:43 GMT
Kingswood Polak, I agree with thank god for GCs points because if we had the old DC first half of the season I would say we would now be in Tranmere's position and relegation would be almost guaranteed on our present run.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 3, 2020 13:34:42 GMT
Mrs V Smegma, I was not referring to MY harks for games I was referring to the player ratings on Gas Chat from a wide variety of Supporters. If you honestly think that Ollie Clarke has been anything other than a liability this season then I would suggest that you must be one of the "one of our own brigade"- he has been bloody awful and I have seen the majority of the games. I am not saying Upson has been that good particularly recently but definitely far better than Ollie who IMO is a League 2 player at best. The more shots you hhave do not mean that you are the better offensive player as if you consider 1 goal from 34 attempts indicates this then god hhelp us. Referring to Basels post- Are you having a laugh? Ollie Clarke Two footed- yes he has two feet I will admit that!! can pass- rubbish his passing is very poor tackle- Agree but once he has been booked this ability can no longer be effective head- not convinced he can head a ball and am sure that Upson wins far more in the air but neither are particularly good. shoot- Very erratic this season and IMO it was the only reason he was in the team in previous seasons because he had about a 1 in 5 games goal record Supports attack and defence- He doesn't want the ball and goes missing both defensively and attacking. Ogogo is the closest to this description but NONE of our midfield are particularly good at supporting offensively He never goes missing. Now you are really having a laugh!! He,like all footballers need to take the field understanding his own job and how it fits into the team effort- No he has to take to the field and do the job he has been asked by the Manager to do. Couglan got the best out of him (and others).- Coughlan got very little out of him this season as he was no better under Coughlan than he is now under BG. DC was the only Manager that got the best out of him Garner lacks the ability to do this- Garner unfortunately wants players to be good footballers and IMO we have too many who cannot and will not ever be anything other than average League 2 players I don't blame the Captain (I respect and rate him),our goal scorer or left back. So you don't think the players are to blame at all? The manager cannot make a player make a good or bad pass or be bothered to run about and mark players. Once they go on the pitch it is down to them. The problem is the Manager- Not convinced totally with this but he is certainly not helping things at the moment. We will only really know if he is given the chance to get rid of the players who are not good enough to play his way although I have to say that I don't like his way of playing at the moment because one up front is not the answer and if we continue with these tactics then we won't get many more points this season and will be relegated next. I'm with you Stevek192. First season in Division 1 Ollie Clarke really surprised me. He stepped up and was excellent. The last couple of seasons he's gone backwards. I still think awarding him Players Player of the season last year could only have been a squad joke. For me he's a bench player at best and cover for Ogogo or Upson. Just my opinion and I respect others feel differently. He's one of our own don't you know.
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Post by laughinggas on Mar 3, 2020 16:13:27 GMT
Slightly off topic but what does Ogogo offer. He can't run with the ball. He hides from the ball when we have throwins etc. He is slow, if he closes someone down and that player goes past him, he's gone. Very like The Beard, apart from you could see the Beard start to improve.
Am not comparing him to anyone in current squad, but seriously why would you want him in starting eleven?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Mar 3, 2020 17:43:42 GMT
Slightly off topic but what does Ogogo offer. The winner at Shrews away? Not much since then.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 19:00:39 GMT
Ogogo played a big part in coughlans team imo. His strength is closing opponents down and winning the ball in central midfield. All those fans who have only been going since january would not have noticed the great year he had under coughlan of course as he has struggled to recreate his previous form under garner. Footnote,he was unavailable for several games with a medical issue which probably hasnt helped much.
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simonj
Archie Stevens
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 817
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Post by simonj on Mar 11, 2020 7:51:15 GMT
SimonJ, Beg to differ but I see Upson doing the majority of the dirty work and Ollie Clarke wandering around trying hard not to get involved and do anything and that has been the case all season. As regards Clarke being more dangerous outside the box how many goals has Ollie Clarke scored this season compared to Upson. The problem we have is that as I see it all the midfield are attempting to do the dirty work and no one is doing the creative work.Also as regards the Upson/Clarke comparison check the marks given and you will find Ollie Clarke rarely getting a higher mark than Upson. As regards the back three whilst the players may suit it more it is a fact that in most of the away games since Christmas we have been torn apart because teams play with wide players and when our central defenders are dragged out none of them are that capable of doing the full back job. Although at Sunderland we did pretty well until Ogogo was sent off the signs were already there in the first half that their wingers were going to be key and quite a few times the wingers came right into the box. I know its only one game, but that certainly assisted my argument. Opinions remain, but its very clear and has been for some time, Upson, Clarke & Ogogo don't equate. I said before I would pass up on Upson and last night the midfield were terrific. The set up isn't hugely creative but it was effective.
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Post by stevek192 on Mar 11, 2020 10:22:04 GMT
simonj, I agree but one swallow doesn't make a summer but that was certainly a move in the right direction but it was not down to any one player. It was down to every player playing well compared to Saturday where only two or maybe three players deserved their wage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 14:39:33 GMT
I agree but one swallow doesn't make a summer but that was certainly a move in the right direction but it was not down to any one player. Steve you are a nuanced writer. A stevek192 sentence always has at least one change of direction, but this one has three 'but's!
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Post by irenesfather on Mar 11, 2020 15:31:26 GMT
Mrs V Smegma, I was not referring to MY harks for games I was referring to the player ratings on Gas Chat from a wide variety of Supporters. If you honestly think that Ollie Clarke has been anything other than a liability this season then I would suggest that you must be one of the "one of our own brigade"- he has been bloody awful and I have seen the majority of the games. I am not saying Upson has been that good particularly recently but definitely far better than Ollie who IMO is a League 2 player at best. The more shots you hhave do not mean that you are the better offensive player as if you consider 1 goal from 34 attempts indicates this then god hhelp us. Referring to Basels post- Are you having a laugh? Ollie Clarke Two footed- yes he has two feet I will admit that!! can pass- rubbish his passing is very poor tackle- Agree but once he has been booked this ability can no longer be effective head- not convinced he can head a ball and am sure that Upson wins far more in the air but neither are particularly good. shoot- Very erratic this season and IMO it was the only reason he was in the team in previous seasons because he had about a 1 in 5 games goal record Supports attack and defence- He doesn't want the ball and goes missing both defensively and attacking. Ogogo is the closest to this description but NONE of our midfield are particularly good at supporting offensively He never goes missing. Now you are really having a laugh!! He,like all footballers need to take the field understanding his own job and how it fits into the team effort- No he has to take to the field and do the job he has been asked by the Manager to do. Couglan got the best out of him (and others).- Coughlan got very little out of him this season as he was no better under Coughlan than he is now under BG. DC was the only Manager that got the best out of him Garner lacks the ability to do this- Garner unfortunately wants players to be good footballers and IMO we have too many who cannot and will not ever be anything other than average League 2 players I don't blame the Captain (I respect and rate him),our goal scorer or left back. So you don't think the players are to blame at all? The manager cannot make a player make a good or bad pass or be bothered to run about and mark players. Once they go on the pitch it is down to them. The problem is the Manager- Not convinced totally with this but he is certainly not helping things at the moment. We will only really know if he is given the chance to get rid of the players who are not good enough to play his way although I have to say that I don't like his way of playing at the moment because one up front is not the answer and if we continue with these tactics then we won't get many more points this season and will be relegated next. I'm with you Stevek192. First season in Division 1 Ollie Clarke really surprised me. He stepped up and was excellent. The last couple of seasons he's gone backwards. I still think awarding him Players Player of the season last year could only have been a squad joke. For me he's a bench player at best and cover for Ogogo or Upson. Just my opinion and I respect others feel differently. He's one of our own don't you know. Something you should bear in mind when eulogising over Upson is that the last 2 clubs he played for over a full season were both relegated,now you can call that a coincidence if you wish but he is very slow and indecisive,tending to go backwards instead of looking to move the game towards the opposition but if that is the reason why those on gas chat give him high marks then I am appalled at your knowledge of the game
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 11, 2020 16:31:18 GMT
I'm with you Stevek192. First season in Division 1 Ollie Clarke really surprised me. He stepped up and was excellent. The last couple of seasons he's gone backwards. I still think awarding him Players Player of the season last year could only have been a squad joke. For me he's a bench player at best and cover for Ogogo or Upson. Just my opinion and I respect others feel differently. He's one of our own don't you know. Something you should bear in mind when eulogising over Upson is that the last 2 clubs he played for over a full season were both relegated,now you can call that a coincidence if you wish but he is very slow and indecisive,tending to go backwards instead of looking to move the game towards the opposition but if that is the reason why those on gas chat give him high marks then I am appalled at your knowledge of the game I don't think I've ever eulogised about Upson. I just think that on balance he is a better option in midfield than Clarke. (Though Clarke was much better last night in the anchor role). Your last ramble just doesn't make any sense. Am I in some way responsible for those on another Forum giving Upson good marks? How does that make you appalled at my knowledge of the game? Top tip: Adding some punctuation may help you get your point across.
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Post by irenesfather on Mar 11, 2020 16:48:06 GMT
Something you should bear in mind when eulogising over Upson is that the last 2 clubs he played for over a full season were both relegated,now you can call that a coincidence if you wish but he is very slow and indecisive,tending to go backwards instead of looking to move the game towards the opposition but if that is the reason why those on gas chat give him high marks then I am appalled at your knowledge of the game I don't think I've ever eulogised about Upson. I just think that on balance he is a better option in midfield than Clarke. (Though Clarke was much better last night in the anchor role). Your last ramble just doesn't make any sense. Am I in some way responsible for those on another Forum giving Upson good marks? How does that make you appalled at my knowledge of the game? Top tip: Adding some punctuation may help you get your point across. Apologies for that it was not aimed at you more in a response to stevek justifying his Mark's by using the excuse it's what others on that forum do. Not questioning your knowledge in any way just will have to take more care in future about how I comment on other posts
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Post by irenesfather on Mar 11, 2020 16:49:46 GMT
I don't think I've ever eulogised about Upson. I just think that on balance he is a better option in midfield than Clarke. (Though Clarke was much better last night in the anchor role). Your last ramble just doesn't make any sense. Am I in some way responsible for those on another Forum giving Upson good marks? How does that make you appalled at my knowledge of the game? Top tip: Adding some punctuation may help you get your point across. Apologies for that it was not aimed at you more in a response to stevek justifying his Mark's by using the excuse it's what others on that forum do. Not questioning your knowledge in any way just will have to take more care in future about how I comment on other posts Also meant to type their instead of your. Will try to use more punctuation in future posts
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 11, 2020 18:16:56 GMT
I don't think I've ever eulogised about Upson. I just think that on balance he is a better option in midfield than Clarke. (Though Clarke was much better last night in the anchor role). Your last ramble just doesn't make any sense. Am I in some way responsible for those on another Forum giving Upson good marks? How does that make you appalled at my knowledge of the game? Top tip: Adding some punctuation may help you get your point across. Apologies for that it was not aimed at you more in a response to stevek justifying his Mark's by using the excuse it's what others on that forum do. Not questioning your knowledge in any way just will have to take more care in future about how I comment on other posts No need to apologise! Welcome to the Forum & UTG.
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Post by irenesfather on Mar 11, 2020 19:23:14 GMT
Apologies for that it was not aimed at you more in a response to stevek justifying his Mark's by using the excuse it's what others on that forum do. Not questioning your knowledge in any way just will have to take more care in future about how I comment on other posts No need to apologise! Welcome to the Forum & UTG. Picking up on another point Steve made about clarke.s natural position is defensive midfielder not a play maker. I seem to recall reading some while ago another poster made a similar point when clarke was getting a bad press and he was rubbished by a number of posters not sure if it was on here or the other forum
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 22:59:08 GMT
Adding some punctuation may help... stevek justifying his Mark's... Not there! Clarke's natural position is defensive midfielder not a play maker. I seem to recall reading some while ago another poster made a similar point when clarke was getting a bad press and he was rubbished by a number of posters not sure if it was on here or the other forum When Clarke was at his best he was the more defensive and battling one of his partnership with Lines. It worked well then.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 12, 2020 8:07:12 GMT
No need to apologise! Welcome to the Forum & UTG. Picking up on another point Steve made about clarke.s natural position is defensive midfielder not a play maker. I seem to recall reading some while ago another poster made a similar point when clarke was getting a bad press and he was rubbished by a number of posters not sure if it was on here or the other forum I think most people 'here' see Ollie Clarke's best position as a defensive mid-fielder. Strong in the tackle and breaks up play, but that's about it. In the conference season and Div 2 promotion years he was getting forward more and every couple of months would score 'a screamer'. Maybe the step up to Div 1 means he is now more naturally suited to defensive duties. Played very well Tuesday in that role...
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Post by irenesfather on Mar 12, 2020 8:38:22 GMT
Picking up on another point Steve made about clarke.s natural position is defensive midfielder not a play maker. I seem to recall reading some while ago another poster made a similar point when clarke was getting a bad press and he was rubbished by a number of posters not sure if it was on here or the other forum I think most people 'here' see Ollie Clarke's best position as a defensive mid-fielder. Strong in the tackle and breaks up play, but that's about it. In the conference season and Div 2 promotion years he was getting forward more and every couple of months would score 'a screamer'. Maybe the step up to Div 1 means he is now more naturally suited to defensive duties. Played very well Tuesday in that role... I said I wasnt sure where I read it .you have confirmed for me it was the junior forum.ollie seemed to have a good understanding with lines and that allowed him to play to his capabilities whereas with ogogo and upson around him he seems to have to play a role he is not suited to
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Post by laughinggas on Mar 12, 2020 9:34:53 GMT
For what it's worth, league goal assists this season; Sercs 4 Clarke 3 Ogogo 1 Upson 0 Rodman 2 Leahy 2 Hare 2 Little 1 THD 1
last three need to play more games to have meaningful stats.
Oh and Tom had 2.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 12, 2020 11:51:56 GMT
And further FWIW (league games) assists + goals = total: Sercs (22) 4 + 1 = 5 Clarke (27) 3 + 1 = 4 Ogogo 1 (27) 1 + 3 = 4 Upson 0 (33) 0 + 2 = 2 Rodman 2 (29) 2 + 2 = 4 Leahy 2 (32) 2 + 0 = 2 The only firm conclusion I would draw is that we need more goals and assists from mid-field. Which is a bit blindingly obvious...
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