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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 21:07:09 GMT
A lot of you seem to revel in the club being a mess. That's right. The same people on the East Terrace who were really hacked off at Browner's last minute Dagger's goal were celebrating wildly yesterday as Shrews scored.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 21:08:07 GMT
I know you mean well but if it’s all too much for him then he needs to walk. He has a responsibility to the club to do his job and win football matches and he is proving that he is not up to it. There is nothing there for the club to work with as he has no managerial aptitude whatsoever. One win in 17 is nothing short of scandalous and I wonder which other club would put up with it? We are past playing nicey nicey with him and we need to get real that he is not a football manager and act swiftly to correct the downward trajectory he is taking us on. I would hope that the club had some performance metrics in his contract (as most sane contracts do) and his performance should be falling well short of such metrics and he can be relieved of his duties without fuss or compensation ASAP. It was a radical experiment that hasn’t worked and the club will just be wasting time by trying to find solutions to the problem that involve keeping Garner sweet and on board. I understand your viewpoint and maybe if I had to endure watching matches live would feel the same way. But, knowing the management of the club, do you think they will have planned for the possibility of Ben failing and be ready with a financially viable and dignified way of ensuring his exit ? Or is it more likely this will degenerate into a shambles which can only do harm ? Ha! I think we all know the answer to that. Although not even Rovers could be stupid enough to give a manager with no track record a 2.5 year contract with no severance clauses....could they?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 21:10:27 GMT
A lot of you seem to revel in the club being a mess. I certainly don’t. This is going largely as I predicted when I heard Garner had been given the job. It was total lack of ambition not to capitalise on Coughlan’s good work with some continuity to try and get promotion. The mess we are in at the moment is precisely because of that decision. Mind you not even I thought he would only win 1 in 17.
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JeffNZ
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Post by JeffNZ on Mar 1, 2020 21:23:37 GMT
Totally get where you're coming from swissgas and of course, Ben must be treated fairly and with a level of class and dignity. However, football is not like your normal day to day job. With football, you have one or two performance reviews a WEEK and all done in the public eye. That's huge pressure as one anyone in the game is (or certainly should be) aware of. Can you imagine if an employee had failed 17/18 performance reviews? I don't think they would be in a job too long. As I've said in another thread, Saturday was the last straw and I think Ben and the club need to consider their options.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 21:36:39 GMT
A lot of you seem to revel in the club being a mess. That's right. The same people on the East Terrace who were really hacked off at Browner's last minute Dagger's goal were celebrating wildly yesterday as Shrews scored. Not really sure what relevance your comment has. Just so you know, as you're fond of replying to everyone and everything in here, I won't be joining in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 23:35:20 GMT
I'm not so negative about our owners or our manager as many. And some of us are awful old moaners at times.
However, I don't see gasheads revelling in the club being in a mess. Alongside the moaning, I've been interested to debate the solutions, not that any of us can influence a damn thing to their effect.
I think we need a Director of Football to manage BG. There's no point sacking him for WAQ to recruit another manager. We have recruitment issues.
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bondigas
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Post by bondigas on Mar 1, 2020 23:44:18 GMT
No point in sacking BG now, he knows his time is up, if he's lucky his next job will be managing in the third world with an emerging club or country position on the back of I've managed an English EFL side. I'm with Swiss, no leadership at the club, a CEO who is servile and past his sell by date and was seeking an extension to his working life by ringing Mr Nice Guy begging for a job as he knew his time was up at Plymouth. The club is in crisis, no one is standing up for it, thats what should concern us all. P S BG now out on his own as holding the worst record as a manager in the history of the football league with one club, beating Bryan Gunn at Norwich, Tony Adams at Portsmouth and John Barnes at Tranmere Rovers.
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TaiwanGas
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Post by TaiwanGas on Mar 2, 2020 3:24:03 GMT
No point in sacking BG now, he knows his time is up, if he's lucky his next job will be managing in the third world with an emerging club or country position on the back of I've managed an English EFL side. I'm with Swiss, no leadership at the club, a CEO who is servile and past his sell by date and was seeking an extension to his working life by ringing Mr Nice Guy begging for a job as he knew his time was up at Plymouth. The club is in crisis, no one is standing up for it, thats what should concern us all. P S BG now out on his own as holding the worst record as a manager in the history of the football league with one club, beating Bryan Gunn at Norwich, Tony Adams at Portsmouth and John Barnes at Tranmere Rovers. I suggest he applies for the Job of Head Coach of the Taiwan National Team (Chinese Taipei) they have a great record of losing and heavily, plus the last two Head Coaches have been English, one was quite successful but left alla Coughlan, the other a newbie with all the badges was dreadful and was recently terminated, with BG being a traveller n'all, he could make a go of this, and the Taiwanese do love an experiment and have nearly zero expectation. When the National Team play in the capital (Taipei) they are lucky to get a crowd of 5k in a city of 2.64 million, with tickets costing between 2 and 6 quid. lot's of commercial opportunity to increase footfall & merch sales if any budding commercial managers are also looking for a move!...
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 2, 2020 9:27:15 GMT
why do you think this swiss - because he'll lose it if a takeover goes through? Three reasons ampg Firstly, when Martyn was appointed in March 2018 I didn’t feel he was the right man for the job as I posted at the time. Some fans thought he had been headhunted because of his experience with Plymouth’s ground redevelopment but I didn’t think so and that myth was soon exploded when Martyn admitted he left for personal reasons and rang Wael asking for a job. Secondly, I said at the time that although I wasn’t in favor we should give at least give Martyn a chance and suggested he should (between March and July when he started) set out his vision and what his role at the club would be to win fans over and herald a new era where for the first time we had a paid CEO. He didn’t do it then and his communication since has been abysmal. Thirdly, the last three months has seen me have more contact with people close to the centre of the club than at any time in the past twelve years and through this I have discovered, from those whom I would trust, that Martyn is not performing in his role as CEO as supporters would wish him to. He is approaching retirement age and has no affinity for Rovers so really this should not come as a surprise. having a wee ponder about this, it seems to me that WAQ and MS have got on the wrong side of the 'people close to the centre of the club'. This includes, but is not limited to, people who formerly had 'positions' associated with the club (eg KM or the SC more generally), or employee roles at the club (DH, maybe KB etc), or just long-standing memberships of groups like the PC (eg fanaticalknowall) it's possible that this is the result of making the set-up more professional (personally I've no doubt that there has been an element of that), but also a result of them feeling 'personally downgraded' also, reading fanaticalknowall and maybe others it's clear that there is also a mission underway - which I think is to move control of the club on to others (and, tbh, that's been bog standard normal over the years at BRFC, and is probably the same at lots of clubs, which makes it difficult to engage with as they, unlike yourself maybe, are highlighting problems but not solutions)
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Mar 2, 2020 9:45:45 GMT
Three reasons ampg Firstly, when Martyn was appointed in March 2018 I didn’t feel he was the right man for the job as I posted at the time. Some fans thought he had been headhunted because of his experience with Plymouth’s ground redevelopment but I didn’t think so and that myth was soon exploded when Martyn admitted he left for personal reasons and rang Wael asking for a job. Secondly, I said at the time that although I wasn’t in favor we should give at least give Martyn a chance and suggested he should (between March and July when he started) set out his vision and what his role at the club would be to win fans over and herald a new era where for the first time we had a paid CEO. He didn’t do it then and his communication since has been abysmal. Thirdly, the last three months has seen me have more contact with people close to the centre of the club than at any time in the past twelve years and through this I have discovered, from those whom I would trust, that Martyn is not performing in his role as CEO as supporters would wish him to. He is approaching retirement age and has no affinity for Rovers so really this should not come as a surprise. having a wee ponder about this, it seems to me that WAQ and MS have got on the wrong side of the 'people close to the centre of the club'. This includes, but is not limited to, people who formerly had 'positions' associated with the club (eg KM or the SC more generally), or employee roles at the club (DH, maybe KB etc), or just long-standing memberships of groups like the PC (eg fanaticalknowall) it's possible that this is the result of making the set-up more professional (personally I've no doubt that there has been an element of that), but also a result of them feeling 'personally downgraded' also, reading fanaticalknowall and maybe others it's clear that there is also a mission underway - which I think is to move control of the club on to others (and, tbh, that's been bog standard normal over the years at BRFC, and is probably the same at lots of clubs, which makes it difficult to engage with as they, unlike yourself maybe, are highlighting problems but not solutions) I really don't think there is "a mission". "Control of the Club" can't be moved to "others". There are just lots and lots of people from different backgrounds, with different relationships with the Club, ST holders, SC members, long suffering Gasheads etc etc etc... all expressing incredible frustration with the Club both on and off the pitch. Ultimately fans will vote with their feet. Until Dwane Sports and Ben Garner go forth and multiply, I've had enough.
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TaiwanGas
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Post by TaiwanGas on Mar 2, 2020 10:24:55 GMT
having a wee ponder about this, it seems to me that WAQ and MS have got on the wrong side of the 'people close to the centre of the club'. This includes, but is not limited to, people who formerly had 'positions' associated with the club (eg KM or the SC more generally), or employee roles at the club (DH, maybe KB etc), or just long-standing memberships of groups like the PC (eg fanaticalknowall) it's possible that this is the result of making the set-up more professional (personally I've no doubt that there has been an element of that), but also a result of them feeling 'personally downgraded' also, reading fanaticalknowall and maybe others it's clear that there is also a mission underway - which I think is to move control of the club on to others (and, tbh, that's been bog standard normal over the years at BRFC, and is probably the same at lots of clubs, which makes it difficult to engage with as they, unlike yourself maybe, are highlighting problems but not solutions) I really don't think there is "a mission". "Control of the Club" can't be moved to "others". There are just lots and lots of people from different backgrounds, with different relationships with the Club, ST holders, SC members, long suffering Gasheads etc etc etc... all expressing incredible frustration with the Club both on and off the pitch. Ultimately fans will vote with their feet. Until Dwane Sports and Ben Garner go forth and multiply, I've had enough. I agree, I can't vote with my feet as I'm 8000 miles away, to personally make matters worse on the eve of the Ipswich game, on the back of some very salty performances, I finally caved in and purchased a ' Half Season ' pass for ifollow. I enjoyed the torment of the Ipswich game, but nothing since, 3pm kickoff is 11pm local time for me, I think sleep could be a better alternative until BG has upped and away!.
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Post by matealotblue on Mar 2, 2020 11:36:08 GMT
I really don't think there is "a mission". "Control of the Club" can't be moved to "others". There are just lots and lots of people from different backgrounds, with different relationships with the Club, ST holders, SC members, long suffering Gasheads etc etc etc... all expressing incredible frustration with the Club both on and off the pitch. Ultimately fans will vote with their feet. Until Dwane Sports and Ben Garner go forth and multiply, I've had enough. I agree, I can't vote with my feet as I'm 8000 miles away, to personally make matters worse on the eve of the Ipswich game, on the back of some very salty performances, I finally caved in and purchased a ' Half Season ' pass for ifollow. I enjoyed the torment of the Ipswich game, but nothing since, 3pm kickoff is 11pm local time for me, I think sleep could be a better alternative until BG has upped and away!.Was sleeping through it on Saturday.....and I was actually AT the game. Truly, truly the worst I have seen in many a year.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Mar 2, 2020 12:07:56 GMT
I think the performances during Clarke's last few months in charge take some beating mind
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kingswood Polak
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Post by kingswood Polak on Mar 2, 2020 12:09:46 GMT
A lot of you seem to revel in the club being a mess. What makes you think that please ? I don’t think any of us revel in it and would much rather have a team that were at least looking like they are improving and maybe even giving some entertainment. I really do not enjoy hearing our own fans arguing with each other on match days. The only outlet is on a forum. At least it’s not booing or name calling, when we play
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Mar 2, 2020 12:11:57 GMT
A lot of you seem to revel in the club being a mess. What makes you think that please ? I don’t think any of us revel in it and would much rather have a team that were at least looking like they are improving and maybe even giving some entertainment. I really do not enjoy hearing our own fans arguing with each other on match days. The only outlet is on a forum. At least it’s not booing or name calling, when we play I'm not sure anyone revels in constant frustration actually.
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Post by mangogas15 on Mar 2, 2020 12:13:09 GMT
Just heard Ben Foster on Talksport saying that when Pepe Mell came in as manager at WBA he tried to get them to play out from the back. He said he tried for about half an hour and it was clearly evident it wasn't his game. They were trying to get fit square pegs in round holes. Get people to do things that were not their game. Tried to change too much too quickly.
Sounds exactly like us. Why change what worked. Work with what you have and recognise their strengths and weaknesses.
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Post by swissgas on Mar 2, 2020 15:36:45 GMT
Three reasons ampg Firstly, when Martyn was appointed in March 2018 I didn’t feel he was the right man for the job as I posted at the time. Some fans thought he had been headhunted because of his experience with Plymouth’s ground redevelopment but I didn’t think so and that myth was soon exploded when Martyn admitted he left for personal reasons and rang Wael asking for a job. Secondly, I said at the time that although I wasn’t in favor we should give at least give Martyn a chance and suggested he should (between March and July when he started) set out his vision and what his role at the club would be to win fans over and herald a new era where for the first time we had a paid CEO. He didn’t do it then and his communication since has been abysmal. Thirdly, the last three months has seen me have more contact with people close to the centre of the club than at any time in the past twelve years and through this I have discovered, from those whom I would trust, that Martyn is not performing in his role as CEO as supporters would wish him to. He is approaching retirement age and has no affinity for Rovers so really this should not come as a surprise. having a wee ponder about this, it seems to me that WAQ and MS have got on the wrong side of the 'people close to the centre of the club'. This includes, but is not limited to, people who formerly had 'positions' associated with the club (eg KM or the SC more generally), or employee roles at the club (DH, maybe KB etc), or just long-standing memberships of groups like the PC (eg fanaticalknowall) it's possible that this is the result of making the set-up more professional (personally I've no doubt that there has been an element of that), but also a result of them feeling 'personally downgraded' also, reading fanaticalknowall and maybe others it's clear that there is also a mission underway - which I think is to move control of the club on to others (and, tbh, that's been bog standard normal over the years at BRFC, and is probably the same at lots of clubs, which makes it difficult to engage with as they, unlike yourself maybe, are highlighting problems but not solutions) The feedback I've received is far more than just people having their noses put out by change because sensible people accept that change is necessary and embrace it when they can see it is likely to lead to success. But I'm not sure there is an appetite for a long post about this so I'll keep it short. I find myself in something of a unique position having been on the inside for part of the time at Twerton and seeing at first hand how what has been described as "the miracle" was accomplished. The main reason for that success was not money it was the hard work and acceptance of responsibility which virtually everyone involved committed to. All the evidence now suggests to me that our two man board are not hard working and do not take their responsibilities seriously. If someone can convince me that I'm wrong then I should be delighted.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2020 19:59:03 GMT
I'm not sure there is an appetite for a long post about this so I'll keep it short. You underestimate that, you old tease.
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Post by a more piratey game on Mar 2, 2020 20:01:45 GMT
I'm not sure there is an appetite for a long post about this so I'll keep it short. You underestimate that, you old tease. what he said, but without the old bit
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Post by emperorsuperbus on Mar 2, 2020 22:36:01 GMT
Here’s my take. poor old Ben Garner. Where to begin. There's not much to say that hasn’t already been said over and over. I liked his interview after the game. I would be happy if he's given confidence till November to see what pre season and start to his own season he can do. But as he left the pitch I stood there and he took some hell of abuse. Mind you it was not just the losing it was the manner. I’m surprised we were so poor against Shrews side who came to be streetwise but often betrayed by lack of composure, they were there for the taking we should have been fired up for a win. Our formation didn’t help there was nothing linking deeper play to the 3 up front other than long balls giant team were gobbling up, and so it went on and on without change right to the very end. Indefensible really. Except to say when we recruited permanent signings in January its wasn’t with getting results this season in mind. Cocko over delivered on league position before he went, because although the place in table was high, it was a tight top end of table so we not as convincing promotion candidate then as the place in table suggested. He also inherited some crap players on silly wages after the Mensa and Bennet debacles. An injury crisis. And players like JML may star in under 23 football but finding it hard against experienced journeyman pro's.
Josh Barrell didn’t make bench but bennet did and ben making a pointy remark in someones direction about need to train better to make bench and team. Or am I reading too much into it?
I like Ben. He’s got till November in my case.
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