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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2020 20:26:42 GMT
I am more interested, should I say enthused, than I have been for a couple of years. While it's not interesting to agree too often, I find this contagious. I remember reading of the enthusiasm of Faustus and co for Clarke's Rovers, and it got to me. Reading of oldie and warehamgas's enthusiasm for Garner's Rovers affects me similarly. So without getting carried away, I look forward, sceptically but enthusiastically, to Garner's Rovers playing some nice football to a top nine finish. Then we'll be even more keen to flood back in numbers post vaccine in the summer.
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Post by The Concept on Oct 26, 2020 9:48:32 GMT
I recommend taking a long view. I did not agree with the early sackers. But neither am I now Garnerball-convinced. We've won two league games from five. Review Garner's tenure later in the season. Crazy how opinion changes: make a few signings - we're going up; lose a game - sack him; win a game - we're going up. Were people really like this before social media? Reminds me of a friend's "10 listen rule" before making an opinion on a new LP. I find the growers stay with me longer than instant ones. The albums that get better with plays; the ones you hear something new every time you listen. Whereas the instant ones can tend to wear thin over time. I would play a Doves LP far more often than an Oasis LP. Thing is you need the instant hit to gain recognition in the first place. Would Blur have been able to release and album like '13', if they hadn't produced 'Parklife' beforehand? BTW my favourite Blur album has always been 'Modern Life is Rubbish', which didn't really get much attention at the time compared to the others, but may not have come to my attention without 'There's No Other Way' from the previous album.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 10:37:28 GMT
From a business perspective anyone who says it’s mad is correct. For anyone to invest, fund or pay for a football club when there is no or very little income coming into the game at the moment must be completely mad but then it has always been and it won’t change. For Bristol Rovers you could read many other clubs, Bristol City even, it has always been a madhouse as a business. It’s never made any sense and it doesn’t now. But as a sports, entertainment business I’m as enthusiastic as ever. We have a new training ground and there seems to be a general good feel and despite the reservations about BG he’s had a good month so far and recovered some ground. I’m now beginning to see what he’s trying to do (I think) and the football has been good this month, certainly better than that of GC and BG last season. Long way to go but at least I have some enthusiasm back for the football. UTG! The difference between what Lansdown is doing down at his DSS Arena and what we are doing with our Carry On Camping film set is that he's chasing the huge money in the PL, and he's making so much money that what he's pumping in to keep all of his sports teams going is all but irrelevant to him. We have Wael, and his finite bank balance, with a family business that, according to Swiss, isn't doing so well.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 26, 2020 16:06:41 GMT
From a business perspective anyone who says it’s mad is correct. For anyone to invest, fund or pay for a football club when there is no or very little income coming into the game at the moment must be completely mad but then it has always been and it won’t change. For Bristol Rovers you could read many other clubs, Bristol City even, it has always been a madhouse as a business. It’s never made any sense and it doesn’t now. But as a sports, entertainment business I’m as enthusiastic as ever. We have a new training ground and there seems to be a general good feel and despite the reservations about BG he’s had a good month so far and recovered some ground. I’m now beginning to see what he’s trying to do (I think) and the football has been good this month, certainly better than that of GC and BG last season. Long way to go but at least I have some enthusiasm back for the football. UTG! The difference between what Lansdown is doing down at his DSS Arena and what we are doing with our Carry On Camping film set is that he's chasing the huge money in the PL, and he's making so much money that what he's pumping in to keep all of his sports teams going is all but irrelevant to him. We have Wael, and his finite bank balance, with a family business that, according to Swiss, isn't doing so well. The AJIB annual profits seem to have stabilized at about £ 16 million so if Wael still has a stake of 8.5% his annual pre-tax distribution would be about £1.35 million. More on topic, why are the players moving to a part finished training ground when surely it would make more sense to stay at Coombe Dingle until Almondsbury is reasonably complete and perhaps even till the end of the season. With the team finally achieving some degree of stability and success why risk this progress with further disruption ? What is the rush ? It is good to see Gasheads getting their enthusiasm back but the recent Frost interviews with Wael and Martyn didn't provide much encouragement to think that the foundations being laid are solid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 16:10:46 GMT
The difference between what Lansdown is doing down at his DSS Arena and what we are doing with our Carry On Camping film set is that he's chasing the huge money in the PL, and he's making so much money that what he's pumping in to keep all of his sports teams going is all but irrelevant to him. We have Wael, and his finite bank balance, with a family business that, according to Swiss, isn't doing so well. The AJIB annual profits seem to have stabilized at about £ 16 million so if Wael still has a stake of 8.5% his annual pre-tax distribution would be about £1.35 million. More on topic, why are the players moving to a part finished training ground when surely it would make more sense to stay at Coombe Dingle until Almondsbury is reasonably complete and perhaps even till the end of the season. With the team finally achieving some degree of stability and success why risk this progress with further disruption ? What is the rush ? It is good to see Gasheads getting their enthusiasm back but the recent Frost interviews with Wael and Martyn didn't provide much encouragement to think that the foundations being laid are solid. Oh dear
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Post by swissgas on Oct 26, 2020 16:15:42 GMT
The AJIB annual profits seem to have stabilized at about £ 16 million so if Wael still has a stake of 8.5% his annual pre-tax distribution would be about £1.35 million. More on topic, why are the players moving to a part finished training ground when surely it would make more sense to stay at Coombe Dingle until Almondsbury is reasonably complete and perhaps even till the end of the season. With the team finally achieving some degree of stability and success why risk this progress with further disruption ? What is the rush ? It is good to see Gasheads getting their enthusiasm back but the recent Frost interviews with Wael and Martyn didn't provide much encouragement to think that the foundations being laid are solid. Oh dear Oh dear, oh dear
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 16:59:33 GMT
Gentlemen, please include the rest of us! What's wrong with training at the new place? The sooner money's not wasted on rent, the better.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 26, 2020 17:29:51 GMT
Gentlemen, please include the rest of us! What's wrong with training at the new place? The sooner money's not wasted on rent, the better. Rent is never wasted if you get value for money Shoveler. I'd suggest it is well worth the money to continue paying for the facilities at Coombe Dingle (3G pitch, floodlit all weather pitches, grass pitches, gym, changing rooms, meeting rooms) which have served us well since July rather than move to a building site just as winter approaches.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 17:38:05 GMT
Rent is never wasted if you get value for money Shoveler. I disagree. Rent is money leaving your organisation or family, going to a landlord, without accruing equity or ownership of a property. Some day owning one's home outright means no more rent, and so one keeps one's income. You can only sell up once. While you own what you're sat on, there's no rent leaving your family or organisation. This is not to say that you're wrong in this instance. You could be quite correct, but I have yet to understand your argument why, Sir. Edit: re-reading, I note more detail in your argument about superior facilities where Rovers are current tenants or customers. That's fair enough, and the changing seasons do indeed suppprt your point.
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Post by a more piratey game on Oct 26, 2020 17:58:53 GMT
Gentlemen, please include the rest of us! What's wrong with training at the new place? The sooner money's not wasted on rent, the better. Rent is never wasted if you get value for money Shoveler. I'd suggest it is well worth the money to continue paying for the facilities at Coombe Dingle (3G pitch, floodlit all weather pitches, grass pitches, gym, changing rooms, meeting rooms) which have served us well since July rather than move to a building site just as winter approaches. the opportunity cost of Coombe Dingle is rising weekly though, unless you put a price on the weather
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Post by laughinggas on Oct 26, 2020 19:03:12 GMT
The difference between what Lansdown is doing down at his DSS Arena and what we are doing with our Carry On Camping film set is that he's chasing the huge money in the PL, and he's making so much money that what he's pumping in to keep all of his sports teams going is all but irrelevant to him. We have Wael, and his finite bank balance, with a family business that, according to Swiss, isn't doing so well. The AJIB annual profits seem to have stabilized at about £ 16 million so if Wael still has a stake of 8.5% his annual pre-tax distribution would be about £1.35 million. More on topic, why are the players moving to a part finished training ground when surely it would make more sense to stay at Coombe Dingle until Almondsbury is reasonably complete and perhaps even till the end of the season. With the team finally achieving some degree of stability and success why risk this progress with further disruption ? What is the rush ? It is good to see Gasheads getting their enthusiasm back but the recent Frost interviews with Wael and Martyn didn't provide much encouragement to think that the foundations being laid are solid. Team game. Build a team Build and identity Build a spirit Etc etc So moving in should be a positive for the squad
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 19:15:55 GMT
The difference between what Lansdown is doing down at his DSS Arena and what we are doing with our Carry On Camping film set is that he's chasing the huge money in the PL, and he's making so much money that what he's pumping in to keep all of his sports teams going is all but irrelevant to him. We have Wael, and his finite bank balance, with a family business that, according to Swiss, isn't doing so well. The AJIB annual profits seem to have stabilized at about £ 16 million so if Wael still has a stake of 8.5% his annual pre-tax distribution would be about £1.35 million. More on topic, why are the players moving to a part finished training ground when surely it would make more sense to stay at Coombe Dingle until Almondsbury is reasonably complete and perhaps even till the end of the season. With the team finally achieving some degree of stability and success why risk this progress with further disruption ? What is the rush ? It is good to see Gasheads getting their enthusiasm back but the recent Frost interviews with Wael and Martyn didn't provide much encouragement to think that the foundations being laid are solid. Don't wish to sound insensitive here, but I'm guessing that Wael may have inherited some of his Father's equity in AJIB? This is very much 'on topic' as we have a trading model / profile of running at circa -£2 ~ 3m. This is a huge worry to me. Hard to see this year looking better, in fact, when this period is reported it's going to make grim reading indeed.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 26, 2020 20:01:12 GMT
The AJIB annual profits seem to have stabilized at about £ 16 million so if Wael still has a stake of 8.5% his annual pre-tax distribution would be about £1.35 million. More on topic, why are the players moving to a part finished training ground when surely it would make more sense to stay at Coombe Dingle until Almondsbury is reasonably complete and perhaps even till the end of the season. With the team finally achieving some degree of stability and success why risk this progress with further disruption ? What is the rush ? It is good to see Gasheads getting their enthusiasm back but the recent Frost interviews with Wael and Martyn didn't provide much encouragement to think that the foundations being laid are solid. Don't wish to sound insensitive here, but I'm guessing that Wael may have inherited some of his Father's equity in AJIB? This is very much 'on topic' as we have a trading model / profile of running at circa -£2 ~ 3m. This is a huge worry to me. Hard to see this year looking better, in fact, when this period is reported it's going to make grim reading indeed. Wael's shareholding was just under 4% but increased to 8.5% after his father passed away. I think Oldie is saying it's no use worrying about Rovers situation and I can understand that point of view. It's just that we seem to make elementary mistakes over and over again and then, after it goes wrong, put everything down to bad luck or something (someone) conspiring against us when with a bit of forethought it could have been prevented. Yes the grass looks green at Almondsbury and yes it might be a wonderful feeling to think it's "our" grass but I doubt the project has been properly thought through. To me the training ground venture has all the hallmarks of a sudden cash windfall burning a hole in Wael's pocket so it has to be spent quickly without doing the calculations. Then it has to be opened up before it is ready so the applause can be milked and the cake iced with a claim about an astute business move at a time when construction costs were suppressed. Like you I am concerned whether there will be enough left in the coffers to keep the business running but I shan't be losing any sleep over it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 20:59:48 GMT
Don't wish to sound insensitive here, but I'm guessing that Wael may have inherited some of his Father's equity in AJIB? This is very much 'on topic' as we have a trading model / profile of running at circa -£2 ~ 3m. This is a huge worry to me. Hard to see this year looking better, in fact, when this period is reported it's going to make grim reading indeed. Wael's shareholding was just under 4% but increased to 8.5% after his father passed away. I think Oldie is saying it's no use worrying about Rovers situation and I can understand that point of view. It's just that we seem to make elementary mistakes over and over again and then, after it goes wrong, put everything down to bad luck or something (someone) conspiring against us when with a bit of forethought it could have been prevented. Yes the grass looks green at Almondsbury and yes it might be a wonderful feeling to think it's "our" grass but I doubt the project has been properly thought through. To me the training ground venture has all the hallmarks of a sudden cash windfall burning a hole in Wael's pocket so it has to be spent quickly without doing the calculations. Then it has to be opened up before it is ready so the applause can be milked and the cake iced with a claim about an astute business move at a time when construction costs were suppressed. Like you I am concerned whether there will be enough left in the coffers to keep the business running but I shan't be losing any sleep over it. Does Wael have any other business interests that we are aware of that could provide revenue to cover his football club's losses?
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Smithy Gas
Craig Hinton
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Post by Smithy Gas on Oct 26, 2020 21:20:19 GMT
Don't wish to sound insensitive here, but I'm guessing that Wael may have inherited some of his Father's equity in AJIB? This is very much 'on topic' as we have a trading model / profile of running at circa -£2 ~ 3m. This is a huge worry to me. Hard to see this year looking better, in fact, when this period is reported it's going to make grim reading indeed. Wael's shareholding was just under 4% but increased to 8.5% after his father passed away. I think Oldie is saying it's no use worrying about Rovers situation and I can understand that point of view. It's just that we seem to make elementary mistakes over and over again and then, after it goes wrong, put everything down to bad luck or something (someone) conspiring against us when with a bit of forethought it could have been prevented. Yes the grass looks green at Almondsbury and yes it might be a wonderful feeling to think it's "our" grass but I doubt the project has been properly thought through. To me the training ground venture has all the hallmarks of a sudden cash windfall burning a hole in Wael's pocket so it has to be spent quickly without doing the calculations. Then it has to be opened up before it is ready so the applause can be milked and the cake iced with a claim about an astute business move at a time when construction costs were suppressed. Like you I am concerned whether there will be enough left in the coffers to keep the business running but I shan't be losing any sleep over it. Swiss, I’m about to renovate my kitchen. Within that process there will be a number of elements to the project but the overriding element and key driver is the kitchen. Going by your logic, once the kitchen is installed and fully operational I shouldn’t use it, even if the rest of the project is ongoing? It’s a whole lot more practical and beats eating out for a few more weeks whilst the flooring goes down etc. Surely you can see that’s what is happening here?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 21:59:39 GMT
Wael's shareholding was just under 4% but increased to 8.5% after his father passed away. I think Oldie is saying it's no use worrying about Rovers situation and I can understand that point of view. It's just that we seem to make elementary mistakes over and over again and then, after it goes wrong, put everything down to bad luck or something (someone) conspiring against us when with a bit of forethought it could have been prevented. Yes the grass looks green at Almondsbury and yes it might be a wonderful feeling to think it's "our" grass but I doubt the project has been properly thought through. To me the training ground venture has all the hallmarks of a sudden cash windfall burning a hole in Wael's pocket so it has to be spent quickly without doing the calculations. Then it has to be opened up before it is ready so the applause can be milked and the cake iced with a claim about an astute business move at a time when construction costs were suppressed. Like you I am concerned whether there will be enough left in the coffers to keep the business running but I shan't be losing any sleep over it. Swiss, I’m about to renovate my kitchen. Within that process there will be a number of elements to the project but the overriding element and key driver is the kitchen. Going by your logic, once the kitchen is installed and fully operational I shouldn’t use it, even if the rest of the project is ongoing? It’s a whole lot more practical and beats eating out for a few more weeks whilst the flooring goes down etc. Surely you can see that’s what is happening here? If you were running a restaurant or were preparing produce to market then you may have an argument here, and it's an argument you would lose if you abandoned functional facilities and risked both alienating your staff and compromising the quality of the commodity that your business trades in. I think that's the point here, Swiss is saying that we are moving in before the thing is finished.
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Post by swissgas on Oct 26, 2020 22:46:48 GMT
Wael's shareholding was just under 4% but increased to 8.5% after his father passed away. I think Oldie is saying it's no use worrying about Rovers situation and I can understand that point of view. It's just that we seem to make elementary mistakes over and over again and then, after it goes wrong, put everything down to bad luck or something (someone) conspiring against us when with a bit of forethought it could have been prevented. Yes the grass looks green at Almondsbury and yes it might be a wonderful feeling to think it's "our" grass but I doubt the project has been properly thought through. To me the training ground venture has all the hallmarks of a sudden cash windfall burning a hole in Wael's pocket so it has to be spent quickly without doing the calculations. Then it has to be opened up before it is ready so the applause can be milked and the cake iced with a claim about an astute business move at a time when construction costs were suppressed. Like you I am concerned whether there will be enough left in the coffers to keep the business running but I shan't be losing any sleep over it. Swiss, I’m about to renovate my kitchen. Within that process there will be a number of elements to the project but the overriding element and key driver is the kitchen. Going by your logic, once the kitchen is installed and fully operational I shouldn’t use it, even if the rest of the project is ongoing? It’s a whole lot more practical and beats eating out for a few more weeks whilst the flooring goes down etc. Surely you can see that’s what is happening here? The example you give relates to a home rather than business situation and, just like with the owning/renting issue, there is a big difference between the two. I was trying to accentuate the positives of staying at Coombe Dingle where all the facilities are together at one location. The team seems to have progressed while there and I can’t see any business case for moving to a building site where there are two good looking pitches but nothing else. Deliberately causing disruption seems illogical and likely to hinder the momentum which has been built up so I think it would be better to wait until Almondsbury is completed and then make a smooth transition. The key driver in this situation should be making sure the team can train in the most effective way but I have a feeling other factors are taking precedence here.
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Smithy Gas
Craig Hinton
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Post by Smithy Gas on Oct 26, 2020 23:01:38 GMT
Swiss, I’m about to renovate my kitchen. Within that process there will be a number of elements to the project but the overriding element and key driver is the kitchen. Going by your logic, once the kitchen is installed and fully operational I shouldn’t use it, even if the rest of the project is ongoing? It’s a whole lot more practical and beats eating out for a few more weeks whilst the flooring goes down etc. Surely you can see that’s what is happening here? If you were running a restaurant or were preparing produce to market then you may have an argument here, and it's an argument you would lose if you abandoned functional facilities and risked both alienating your staff and compromising the quality of the commodity that your business trades in. I think that's the point here, Swiss is saying that we are moving in before the thing is finished. To continue the analogy, surely we’ve left a place with an adequate kitchen but the layout doesn’t quite work for us and have now moved somewhere where the chef has custom designed his kitchen and its decent enough to start production hence the move? Over the coming years extra appliances can come on stream to improve the process but it doesn’t hinder anything now... Back to Swiss, Clearly that’s what he is saying. The question is, is it a problem to do so? It is supposition that us moving to ATC is going alienate the staff/players and be worse than where they are currently training. At the very worst it’s the same - Coombe Dingle doesn’t have everything we need so we have supplemented this with extra facilities and the same will happen at the current place (as stipulated in press today).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2020 23:14:50 GMT
If you were running a restaurant or were preparing produce to market then you may have an argument here, and it's an argument you would lose if you abandoned functional facilities and risked both alienating your staff and compromising the quality of the commodity that your business trades in. I think that's the point here, Swiss is saying that we are moving in before the thing is finished. To continue the analogy, surely we’ve left a place with an adequate kitchen but the layout doesn’t quite work for us and have now moved somewhere where the chef has custom designed his kitchen and its decent enough to start production hence the move? Over the coming years extra appliances can come on stream to improve the process but it doesn’t hinder anything now... Back to Swiss, Clearly that’s what he is saying. The question is, is it a problem to do so? It is supposition that us moving to ATC is going alienate the staff/players and be worse than where they are currently training. At the very worst it’s the same - Coombe Dingle doesn’t have everything we need so we have supplemented this with extra facilities and the same will happen at the current place (as stipulated in press today). Can you help me understand this please as you and Swiss seem to be saying different things. Are the new training facilities for the first team complete and ready to use? Of course, it could be me being dim again and misunderstanding.
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Smithy Gas
Craig Hinton
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Post by Smithy Gas on Oct 27, 2020 9:54:24 GMT
To continue the analogy, surely we’ve left a place with an adequate kitchen but the layout doesn’t quite work for us and have now moved somewhere where the chef has custom designed his kitchen and its decent enough to start production hence the move? Over the coming years extra appliances can come on stream to improve the process but it doesn’t hinder anything now... Back to Swiss, Clearly that’s what he is saying. The question is, is it a problem to do so? It is supposition that us moving to ATC is going alienate the staff/players and be worse than where they are currently training. At the very worst it’s the same - Coombe Dingle doesn’t have everything we need so we have supplemented this with extra facilities and the same will happen at the current place (as stipulated in press today). Can you help me understand this please as you and Swiss seem to be saying different things. Are the new training facilities for the first team complete and ready to use? Of course, it could be me being dim again and misunderstanding. Are they complete: no. Are they functional for their primary use: yes. I believe what Swiss is saying is of course the facilities at CD are better due to being on one site and there being no need to rock the boat. He's right - its a rent v ownership thing but is having a bit of pride and wanting to use something of your own a bad thing? I wonder if Swiss would have correlated our training ground situation to our form if we were still losing?
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