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Post by lostinspace on May 7, 2020 19:22:52 GMT
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on May 7, 2020 19:54:22 GMT
Rains and pours springs to mind. What happens if EFL just cancel this season altogether?
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 8, 2020 8:48:53 GMT
Rains and pours springs to mind. What happens if EFL just cancel this season altogether? The EFL season will not finish. It will finish "as is" with relegation/promotions TBC. The PL need to sort themselves out first, the EFL and the FA can then decide what to do. The PL has to wait for Government direction. The good news is that Germany has set a precedent. It's a start. Money will dictate what will happen, it always does. Lower tier Clubs cannot exist playing behind closed doors. A lot of players will fall off the payroll at the end of June. It would be beyond farce to re-start the season in (say at best) January 2021. Therefore I don't think you aren't going to see Bristol Rovers play a football match for at least another 7 months. And that assumes we are still in existence when football does finally re-start in front of crowds. I am just hoping the owners of the League 1 & 2 are lobbying hard with the EFL/PL/Government for some kind of loan to see them through the next 8 months of zero revenue. Fingers crossed.
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Post by laughinggas on May 8, 2020 14:00:41 GMT
If the Premiership does manage to complete this season soon, when do they start next season? Do they align with EFL or do their own thing. Danger of the two division Prem approaching. How will transfer windows work? Still many questions with this solution.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 9, 2020 8:54:25 GMT
If the Premiership does manage to complete this season soon, when do they start next season? Do they align with EFL or do their own thing. Danger of the two division Prem approaching. How will transfer windows work? Still many questions with this solution. Good point, hadn't thought of that. Football behind closed doors could work in the PL and Championship. There has always been a 'risk' that the top two tiers will come under the PL. I guess if the top two tiers sort themselves out, who care about the loss-making, badly run Clubs in League 1 & 2? Some 'noises' being made about ground-sharing and B teams. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52595505Only noises at the moment. But I wouldn't rule out a major re-structuring of the league system.
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Post by laughinggas on May 9, 2020 11:20:19 GMT
Lots of statistics here about Premiership matchday income. In the main it is responsible for less than 20% of income makes up their income. Does this suggest they can start next season behind closed doors? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52529679The future is looking even more unclear, especially for EFL.
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basel
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Post by basel on May 9, 2020 11:29:04 GMT
An average home gate of 1900-ish (guess) is'nt enough I imagine.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 14, 2020 13:11:39 GMT
Rains and pours springs to mind. What happens if EFL just cancel this season altogether? The EFL season will not finish. It will finish "as is" with relegation/promotions TBC. The PL need to sort themselves out first, the EFL and the FA can then decide what to do. The PL has to wait for Government direction. The good news is that Germany has set a precedent. It's a start. Money will dictate what will happen, it always does. Lower tier Clubs cannot exist playing behind closed doors. A lot of players will fall off the payroll at the end of June. It would be beyond farce to re-start the season in (say at best) January 2021. Therefore I don't think you aren't going to see Bristol Rovers play a football match for at least another 7 months. And that assumes we are still in existence when football does finally re-start in front of crowds. I am just hoping the owners of the League 1 & 2 are lobbying hard with the EFL/PL/Government for some kind of loan to see them through the next 8 months of zero revenue. Fingers crossed. But if the EFL cannot restart until fans return we might not see football for even longer than that and when we do it's highly likely crowds will be massively down anyway.
If this pushes more clubs to the brink the EFL might have to reconsider the whole promotion/relegation scenario. It's entirely feasible that at least 10-12 clubs could go belly up in that time. In which case the whole structure of the league will look different as will its priorities because it will then be a battle for survival as an institution. In that scenario I wonder if there could be some kind of return to election/re-elections to the league solution. Because what the football league will desperately need is financially robust clubs and in recent years we've seen that onfield success and financial stability are not always correlated. Bury went under after having one of their best seasons on the pitch in recent memory, Macc were arguably punching above their weight on the pitch etc.
If we go as far as September 2021 I could see that happening because essentially the League would need a re-start. I also think there is clearly a danger of the Championship breaking away or doing a deal with the Premier League to become Prem 2. That would confirm what is already the case more or less - that the cavenous gap in English football is now between Championship and League 1 not Premier League and Championship as used to be the case. You have to think that Championship/lower ranked Prem clubs will be using this as an opportunity to make the case to pull up the drawbridge for good. Never let a good crisis go to waste and all that....
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Post by laughinggas on May 14, 2020 13:45:04 GMT
I agree Prem2 is a great risk at the moment. Wonder what those "big" clubs will do? Meaning Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich top of that list.
If it happened would we need a new stadium?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 14, 2020 14:58:08 GMT
I agree Prem2 is a great risk at the moment. Wonder what those "big" clubs will do? Meaning Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich top of that list. If it happened would we need a new stadium? It if happened then I think it would be curtains for professional football in the UK below the Championship.
I would have thought that the Prem teams would see it as an opportunity to substantially re-jig the fixture list to serve their interests. If there was a closed shop then getting relegated from the Prem into the 2nd tier would be less of an existential threat. That would potentially allow them to reduce the number of teams in the top tier to 18, something the big clubs have wanted for a while. I'm sure the 2nd tier would be amenable to accommodating 32 clubs in a North/South split scenario. This would then allow them to cherrypick the big clubs below the Championship they would want involved as well as allowing leeway for 'expansion' on their terms should it be feasible in the future. A full on US style model - this is what mid-ranking Prem teams have been angling towards for years, with clubs in League 1 and below becoming reserve team clubs linked to sides in the top half. Wouldn't we love being Bristol City's reserves?
It might sound fantastical but its thoroughly plausible when you consider that this is how a lot of sports work in other parts of the World and the owners of the clubs in the top 2 tiers have every incentive to transform the current model in this way and the power/financial muscle to do so.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on May 15, 2020 9:44:00 GMT
I agree Prem2 is a great risk at the moment. Wonder what those "big" clubs will do? Meaning Portsmouth, Sunderland and Ipswich top of that list. If it happened would we need a new stadium? It if happened then I think it would be curtains for professional football in the UK below the Championship.
I would have thought that the Prem teams would see it as an opportunity to substantially re-jig the fixture list to serve their interests. If there was a closed shop then getting relegated from the Prem into the 2nd tier would be less of an existential threat. That would potentially allow them to reduce the number of teams in the top tier to 18, something the big clubs have wanted for a while. I'm sure the 2nd tier would be amenable to accommodating 32 clubs in a North/South split scenario. This would then allow them to cherrypick the big clubs below the Championship they would want involved as well as allowing leeway for 'expansion' on their terms should it be feasible in the future. A full on US style model - this is what mid-ranking Prem teams have been angling towards for years, with clubs in League 1 and below becoming reserve team clubs linked to sides in the top half. Wouldn't we love being Bristol City's reserves?
It might sound fantastical but its thoroughly plausible when you consider that this is how a lot of sports work in other parts of the World and the owners of the clubs in the top 2 tiers have every incentive to transform the current model in this way and the power/financial muscle to do so. agree. I think we could easily see PL 1 & 2 with a minor league structure underneath. Could the remnants of the EFL absorb/invite National league teams ala your PL scenario to for a couple of divisions if clubs like Notts Couty, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Torquay are still going imagine an 18 PL1 with 4 relegation spots. 1 auto promotion from the 16 team PL2N and PL2S and some sort of play off system for the other 2 spots (maybe cross divisional) whats left underneath could be interesting. that leaves 39 EFL team, I imagine we see some go bust, but maybe even be reformed and allowed to compete in a new EFL. Maybe you could get 2 x 20 team divisions or 3 x 16 divisions with a more traditional non-league set up underneath or again maybe a 16 team team EFL Championship wit 2 x 16 divisions below again split N/S I think there are all sorts of fantasy ideas we could imagine and I don't think any of them are that far fetched
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basel
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Post by basel on May 15, 2020 9:49:48 GMT
In a scenario where a Coronavirus vaccine is found,I would be very excited to see a British League created.
Organised well it would be the envy of the world.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 15, 2020 12:20:43 GMT
It if happened then I think it would be curtains for professional football in the UK below the Championship.
I would have thought that the Prem teams would see it as an opportunity to substantially re-jig the fixture list to serve their interests. If there was a closed shop then getting relegated from the Prem into the 2nd tier would be less of an existential threat. That would potentially allow them to reduce the number of teams in the top tier to 18, something the big clubs have wanted for a while. I'm sure the 2nd tier would be amenable to accommodating 32 clubs in a North/South split scenario. This would then allow them to cherrypick the big clubs below the Championship they would want involved as well as allowing leeway for 'expansion' on their terms should it be feasible in the future. A full on US style model - this is what mid-ranking Prem teams have been angling towards for years, with clubs in League 1 and below becoming reserve team clubs linked to sides in the top half. Wouldn't we love being Bristol City's reserves?
It might sound fantastical but its thoroughly plausible when you consider that this is how a lot of sports work in other parts of the World and the owners of the clubs in the top 2 tiers have every incentive to transform the current model in this way and the power/financial muscle to do so. agree. I think we could easily see PL 1 & 2 with a minor league structure underneath. Could the remnants of the EFL absorb/invite National league teams ala your PL scenario to for a couple of divisions if clubs like Notts Couty, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Torquay are still going imagine an 18 PL1 with 4 relegation spots. 1 auto promotion from the 16 team PL2N and PL2S and some sort of play off system for the other 2 spots (maybe cross divisional) whats left underneath could be interesting. that leaves 39 EFL team, I imagine we see some go bust, but maybe even be reformed and allowed to compete in a new EFL. Maybe you could get 2 x 20 team divisions or 3 x 16 divisions with a more traditional non-league set up underneath or again maybe a 16 team team EFL Championship wit 2 x 16 divisions below again split N/S I think there are all sorts of fantasy ideas we could imagine and I don't think any of them are that far fetched What I would want to see in that scenario is the EFL completely breaking away from the Prem and setting itself up as a parallel league run on completely different principles. So the Prem can be the all singing all dancing money spinner. But, if it was done properly, I think there would be enough appeal in a different so of league that ran according to much more sustainable principles, maintained promotion/relegation, bought in a joint fan ownership/membership principle for clubs etc because it would still be competitive, would be able to market itself as 'the People's League' (or whatever) and would have an independent USP of its own. That might just work (although the odds would still be against) - what wouldn't work would be simply a minor/reserve league. That would be the end of football as we know it I think.
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Peter Parker
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Post by Peter Parker on May 15, 2020 12:38:19 GMT
agree. I think we could easily see PL 1 & 2 with a minor league structure underneath. Could the remnants of the EFL absorb/invite National league teams ala your PL scenario to for a couple of divisions if clubs like Notts Couty, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Torquay are still going imagine an 18 PL1 with 4 relegation spots. 1 auto promotion from the 16 team PL2N and PL2S and some sort of play off system for the other 2 spots (maybe cross divisional) whats left underneath could be interesting. that leaves 39 EFL team, I imagine we see some go bust, but maybe even be reformed and allowed to compete in a new EFL. Maybe you could get 2 x 20 team divisions or 3 x 16 divisions with a more traditional non-league set up underneath or again maybe a 16 team team EFL Championship wit 2 x 16 divisions below again split N/S I think there are all sorts of fantasy ideas we could imagine and I don't think any of them are that far fetched What I would want to see in that scenario is the EFL completely breaking away from the Prem and setting itself up as a parallel league run on completely different principles. So the Prem can be the all singing all dancing money spinner. But, if it was done properly, I think there would be enough appeal in a different so of league that ran according to much more sustainable principles, maintained promotion/relegation, bought in a joint fan ownership/membership principle for clubs etc because it would still be competitive, would be able to market itself as 'the People's League' (or whatever) and would have an independent USP of its own. That might just work (although the odds would still be against) - what wouldn't work would be simply a minor/reserve league. That would be the end of football as we know it I think. Liverpool v Bristol Rovers for the champions of champions trophy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 12:47:44 GMT
agree. I think we could easily see PL 1 & 2 with a minor league structure underneath. Could the remnants of the EFL absorb/invite National league teams ala your PL scenario to for a couple of divisions if clubs like Notts Couty, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Torquay are still going imagine an 18 PL1 with 4 relegation spots. 1 auto promotion from the 16 team PL2N and PL2S and some sort of play off system for the other 2 spots (maybe cross divisional) whats left underneath could be interesting. that leaves 39 EFL team, I imagine we see some go bust, but maybe even be reformed and allowed to compete in a new EFL. Maybe you could get 2 x 20 team divisions or 3 x 16 divisions with a more traditional non-league set up underneath or again maybe a 16 team team EFL Championship wit 2 x 16 divisions below again split N/S I think there are all sorts of fantasy ideas we could imagine and I don't think any of them are that far fetched What I would want to see in that scenario is the EFL completely breaking away from the Prem and setting itself up as a parallel league run on completely different principles. So the Prem can be the all singing all dancing money spinner. But, if it was done properly, I think there would be enough appeal in a different so of league that ran according to much more sustainable principles, maintained promotion/relegation, bought in a joint fan ownership/membership principle for clubs etc because it would still be competitive, would be able to market itself as 'the People's League' (or whatever) and would have an independent USP of its own. That might just work (although the odds would still be against) - what wouldn't work would be simply a minor/reserve league. That would be the end of football as we know it I think. OK, so, you've still got the talent drain in an upwards direction, but you've cleverly cut off even the small (in relative terms) amount of financial support that trickles down from the PL. Well done. You do realise that the PL would grow, it would have PL1, PL2 and then a 3rd division would inevitably be formed as well, so what you've just done is consigned the present 3rd tier to, at best, the status of the National League with no Football League as we know it to get promoted in to. Brilliant!
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on May 15, 2020 13:03:40 GMT
What I would want to see in that scenario is the EFL completely breaking away from the Prem and setting itself up as a parallel league run on completely different principles. So the Prem can be the all singing all dancing money spinner. But, if it was done properly, I think there would be enough appeal in a different so of league that ran according to much more sustainable principles, maintained promotion/relegation, bought in a joint fan ownership/membership principle for clubs etc because it would still be competitive, would be able to market itself as 'the People's League' (or whatever) and would have an independent USP of its own. That might just work (although the odds would still be against) - what wouldn't work would be simply a minor/reserve league. That would be the end of football as we know it I think. OK, so, you've still got the talent drain in an upwards direction, but you've cleverly cut off even the small (in relative terms) amount of financial support that trickles down from the PL. Well done. You do realise that the PL would grow, it would have PL1, PL2 and then a 3rd division would inevitably be formed as well, so what you've just done is consigned the present 3rd tier to, at best, the status of the National League with no Football League as we know it to get promoted in to. Brilliant! I know. I wasn't suggesting this as any kind of ideal scenario. Just as a possible survival strategy for lower league clubs in the event of some kind of Prem 2 occurring, which seems a distinct possibility here. To be clear - like any sensible lower league fan, I dread a Prem 2 scenario as I think it would kill professional lower league football whatever happened. So I agree that it would most likely be reduced to the status of National League or below. Is there a scenario in which lower league football in its current form could survive the emergence of a PL2? I can't see it. The only potential option I see would be to offer a radically different alternative to the Prem's big money model. It probably wouldn't work but would be better than a slow death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 15:34:04 GMT
OK, so, you've still got the talent drain in an upwards direction, but you've cleverly cut off even the small (in relative terms) amount of financial support that trickles down from the PL. Well done. You do realise that the PL would grow, it would have PL1, PL2 and then a 3rd division would inevitably be formed as well, so what you've just done is consigned the present 3rd tier to, at best, the status of the National League with no Football League as we know it to get promoted in to. Brilliant! I know. I wasn't suggesting this as any kind of ideal scenario. Just as a possible survival strategy for lower league clubs in the event of some kind of Prem 2 occurring, which seems a distinct possibility here. To be clear - like any sensible lower league fan, I dread a Prem 2 scenario as I think it would kill professional lower league football whatever happened. So I agree that it would most likely be reduced to the status of National League or below. Is there a scenario in which lower league football in its current form could survive the emergence of a PL2? I can't see it. The only potential option I see would be to offer a radically different alternative to the Prem's big money model. It probably wouldn't work but would be better than a slow death.
Public opinion seems to be the best weapon that traditional clubs have. Just look at that thread about the USA women, shrieking hysterically because they want preferential treatment, people are more than happy to comment when it's good to be seen supporting a politically correct agenda, but expose the truth and nobody wants to go near the topic. What's my point? The Guardian isn't fit to be used for toilet paper, but it did have 1 thing right, the 'court of public opinion' carries a lot of weight. So it's over to the League clubs to get buffoons like that chump at Peterborough to shut up and to actually market the product as something relatable, not something 3rd rate.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 17, 2020 9:46:50 GMT
It if happened then I think it would be curtains for professional football in the UK below the Championship.
I would have thought that the Prem teams would see it as an opportunity to substantially re-jig the fixture list to serve their interests. If there was a closed shop then getting relegated from the Prem into the 2nd tier would be less of an existential threat. That would potentially allow them to reduce the number of teams in the top tier to 18, something the big clubs have wanted for a while. I'm sure the 2nd tier would be amenable to accommodating 32 clubs in a North/South split scenario. This would then allow them to cherrypick the big clubs below the Championship they would want involved as well as allowing leeway for 'expansion' on their terms should it be feasible in the future. A full on US style model - this is what mid-ranking Prem teams have been angling towards for years, with clubs in League 1 and below becoming reserve team clubs linked to sides in the top half. Wouldn't we love being Bristol City's reserves?
It might sound fantastical but its thoroughly plausible when you consider that this is how a lot of sports work in other parts of the World and the owners of the clubs in the top 2 tiers have every incentive to transform the current model in this way and the power/financial muscle to do so. agree. I think we could easily see PL 1 & 2 with a minor league structure underneath. Could the remnants of the EFL absorb/invite National league teams ala your PL scenario to for a couple of divisions if clubs like Notts Couty, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Torquay are still going imagine an 18 PL1 with 4 relegation spots. 1 auto promotion from the 16 team PL2N and PL2S and some sort of play off system for the other 2 spots (maybe cross divisional) whats left underneath could be interesting. that leaves 39 EFL team, I imagine we see some go bust, but maybe even be reformed and allowed to compete in a new EFL. Maybe you could get 2 x 20 team divisions or 3 x 16 divisions with a more traditional non-league set up underneath or again maybe a 16 team team EFL Championship wit 2 x 16 divisions below again split N/S I think there are all sorts of fantasy ideas we could imagine and I don't think any of them are that far fetched Some interesting comments on league re-structuring. I don't think PL 1 & 2 is far off. I think that PL and Championship will finish the season behind closed doors. This will prompt the re-think. The chasm between Championship and League 1 will have been exposed. It doesn't take much from here for the Championship Clubs to split from the EFL and get more money by being a part of the PL franchise. What's left? Well I guess they could still have promotion / relegation between tier 2 & 3. But that sounds almost too "fair"... Just wait for Sunderland and Portsmouth to go up and SLAM. Shut the door. There is a possibility that eventually promotion / relegation between the tier 2 and 3 could be finished. So effectively you have a PL 2 tier franchise business. And then all the badly run, loss-making Clubs tier 3 and below can do what they like. Who cares? Fun fact. There isn't a professional team sport in North America that is not run on a franchise basis. Because they know it's all about the money. Football has been a broken model for decades and the EFL has done nothing in terms of governance to guarantee it's sustainable future. The EFL just kowtow to the PL - so that they can get a little bit of TV money + the solidarity payment. The EFL are beholden to the PL. Make no mistake, lower league football is facing an existential crisis.
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on May 17, 2020 10:38:09 GMT
I know. I wasn't suggesting this as any kind of ideal scenario. Just as a possible survival strategy for lower league clubs in the event of some kind of Prem 2 occurring, which seems a distinct possibility here. To be clear - like any sensible lower league fan, I dread a Prem 2 scenario as I think it would kill professional lower league football whatever happened. So I agree that it would most likely be reduced to the status of National League or below. Is there a scenario in which lower league football in its current form could survive the emergence of a PL2? I can't see it. The only potential option I see would be to offer a radically different alternative to the Prem's big money model. It probably wouldn't work but would be better than a slow death.
Public opinion seems to be the best weapon that traditional clubs have. Just look at that thread about the USA women, shrieking hysterically because they want preferential treatment, people are more than happy to comment when it's good to be seen supporting a politically correct agenda, but expose the truth and nobody wants to go near the topic. What's my point? The Guardian isn't fit to be used for toilet paper, but it did have 1 thing right, the 'court of public opinion' carries a lot of weight. So it's over to the League clubs to get buffoons like that chump at Peterborough to shut up and to actually market the product as something relatable, not something 3rd rate. I'm sorry Bamber, that just simply isn't good enough. I'm disappointed with you and I feel you've really let yourself down. If the best adjective you can come up with to describe Darrah MacAnthony is "chump", then I find that absolutely shocking. Please think more carefully about what you write in future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 10:43:21 GMT
Public opinion seems to be the best weapon that traditional clubs have. Just look at that thread about the USA women, shrieking hysterically because they want preferential treatment, people are more than happy to comment when it's good to be seen supporting a politically correct agenda, but expose the truth and nobody wants to go near the topic. What's my point? The Guardian isn't fit to be used for toilet paper, but it did have 1 thing right, the 'court of public opinion' carries a lot of weight. So it's over to the League clubs to get buffoons like that chump at Peterborough to shut up and to actually market the product as something relatable, not something 3rd rate. I'm sorry Bamber, that just simply isn't good enough. I'm disappointed with you and I feel you've really let yourself down. If the best adjective you can come up with to describe Darrah MacAnthony is "chump", then I find that absolutely shocking. Please think more carefully about what you write in future. Don't blame me, I tried, several times, but you have control of the obscenity and profanity filters.
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