Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 15:55:00 GMT
Maybe wael came to realise the fruit market was a stupid place to put a stadium and saved us from ruin. Just guesswork of course but so is all the other stuff.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 29, 2019 16:10:29 GMT
Maybe wael came to realise the fruit market was a stupid place to put a stadium and saved us from ruin. Just guesswork of course but so is all the other stuff. That’s twice he’s saved us then, perhaps we should put him in goal 😀. Only joking vertigo, I know what you mean, it is guesswork but it’s based on research and experience. I do sometimes wonder whether it is right to post my thoughts but on balance I often do because it might give others food for thought. What do you think of the interview with Clive Richardson and Dean Holdsworth posted above ? If they came up with something similar at Rovers would you be happy with it or would you want more meat on the bones ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 17:17:41 GMT
There's an element of spin here. Higgs wasn't suggesting, as far as I'm aware, that he was sacrificing his equity to get UWE built, it was just moving the investment. Add to that, at no point did I ever see confirmation that all of the non-football revenue from that project would be driven back to Rovers, and if you wanted to be uncharitable, you have some dots there that you can join up to make paint Nick in a bad light. Moving forward. Have Dwayne been given an opportunity to move their investment in a similar way, if so, on what terms? Let's have facts laid out before we decide if there are actually any good or bad guys here. You are a very skilled writer Swiss. Your second paragraph above starts by making it clear that all you have are hunches and a 'gut feeling', but you cleverly conclude with what reads as a damming condemnation of these owners for losing the opportunity to link the club in to 'powerful corporate people' and a 'prestigious City Centre development. Which of those positions do you actually hold please? On the evidence available I came to the conclusion that the Fruit Market Plan (like the UWE Plan) would have given Rovers the chance to compete again with City but it cannot proceed because of financial and other obstacles presented by Dwane Sports. And that in the near future we are likely to be told the Fruit Market failed to go ahead because it was “not in Rovers best interests “which was the same obscure reason given for the UWE Stadium Plan collapse. We will then be presented with an alternative plan which we will be told is the best available option for the club. What we will not be told is that it is actually the only option to get Dwane Sports off the hook financially and which will keep a token presence for Wael but that it condemns Rovers to continued financial instability and a status in the football World which is well below that which would be attainable in other circumstances. I don't want to sound like poor old BlueSky, but, unless you have information that you can't/won't share, this is just guesswork. Here's an alternative possibility. Our Mayor is involved because he wants his legacy to be that he's the person who finally delivered the Arena, and he sees a multi-use complex, and BCC being the authority that will issue the PP to develop that entire area as a package that he can put together. The problem here is that Rovers could end up with property developers who have little, if any interest in football as owners. If that were the case, and I have no evidence that it is, it's pure speculation on my part, but if it were, then Dwayne would be acting in Rovers' best interests distancing the club from being tenants in a stadium that they don't own whilst being owned by people who see the club as a liability. Can you explain why my scenario is more or less likely than yours? Given the extreme reaction from our previous Mayor to YTL's proposals last week, you have to wonder what his interest is as well?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 17:49:37 GMT
Maybe wael came to realise the fruit market was a stupid place to put a stadium and saved us from ruin. Just guesswork of course but so is all the other stuff. That’s twice he’s saved us then, perhaps we should put him in goal 😀. Only joking vertigo, I know what you mean, it is guesswork but it’s based on research and experience. I do sometimes wonder whether it is right to post my thoughts but on balance I often do because it might give others food for thought. What do you think of the interview with Clive Richardson and Dean Holdsworth posted above ? If they came up with something similar at Rovers would you be happy with it or would you want more meat on the bones ? Holdsworth has not over impressed on his football ownership adventures so its a no from me. What we need is someone with serious money and intent like we thought we had with wael and co.
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eppinggas
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Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Nov 29, 2019 18:44:59 GMT
On the evidence available I came to the conclusion that the Fruit Market Plan (like the UWE Plan) would have given Rovers the chance to compete again with City but it cannot proceed because of financial and other obstacles presented by Dwane Sports. And that in the near future we are likely to be told the Fruit Market failed to go ahead because it was “not in Rovers best interests “which was the same obscure reason given for the UWE Stadium Plan collapse. We will then be presented with an alternative plan which we will be told is the best available option for the club. What we will not be told is that it is actually the only option to get Dwane Sports off the hook financially and which will keep a token presence for Wael but that it condemns Rovers to continued financial instability and a status in the football World which is well below that which would be attainable in other circumstances. I don't want to sound like poor old BlueSky, but, unless you have information that you can't/won't share, this is just guesswork. Here's an alternative possibility. Our Mayor is involved because he wants his legacy to be that he's the person who finally delivered the Arena, and he sees a multi-use complex, and BCC being the authority that will issue the PP to develop that entire area as a package that he can put together. The problem here is that Rovers could end up with property developers who have little, if any interest in football as owners. If that were the case, and I have no evidence that it is, it's pure speculation on my part, but if it were, then Dwayne would be acting in Rovers' best interests distancing the club from being tenants in a stadium that they don't own whilst being owned by people who see the club as a liability. Can you explain why my scenario is more or less likely than yours?Given the extreme reaction from our previous Mayor to YTL's proposals last week, you have to wonder what his interest is as well? Well - both are speculation, so it's speculation to say which is more or less likely. But IMHO - swissgas has been pretty much on the money as far as I'm concerned for the last 2 1/2 years. And it's Dwane. Not Dwayne (as in Dwane Dibley). UTG.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 29, 2019 19:04:12 GMT
On the evidence available I came to the conclusion that the Fruit Market Plan (like the UWE Plan) would have given Rovers the chance to compete again with City but it cannot proceed because of financial and other obstacles presented by Dwane Sports. And that in the near future we are likely to be told the Fruit Market failed to go ahead because it was “not in Rovers best interests “which was the same obscure reason given for the UWE Stadium Plan collapse. We will then be presented with an alternative plan which we will be told is the best available option for the club. What we will not be told is that it is actually the only option to get Dwane Sports off the hook financially and which will keep a token presence for Wael but that it condemns Rovers to continued financial instability and a status in the football World which is well below that which would be attainable in other circumstances. I don't want to sound like poor old BlueSky, but, unless you have information that you can't/won't share, this is just guesswork. Here's an alternative possibility. Our Mayor is involved because he wants his legacy to be that he's the person who finally delivered the Arena, and he sees a multi-use complex, and BCC being the authority that will issue the PP to develop that entire area as a package that he can put together. The problem here is that Rovers could end up with property developers who have little, if any interest in football as owners. If that were the case, and I have no evidence that it is, it's pure speculation on my part, but if it were, then Dwayne would be acting in Rovers' best interests distancing the club from being tenants in a stadium that they don't own whilst being owned by people who see the club as a liability. Can you explain why my scenario is more or less likely than yours? Given the extreme reaction from our previous Mayor to YTL's proposals last week, you have to wonder what his interest is as well? I have received some tit bits of information which have the ring of truth about them and which I don’t want to share but these are only small pieces in the bigger picture which is easily put together from published sources. And part of the picture does include your scenario but the issues of tenancy at a stadium and owners not totally committed to football are ones which IMO could be overcome. When the media finally revealed that Dwane Sports wanted to extricate themselves from Rovers financially, but Wael wanted to stay on, it confirmed what the ITK’ers had been hinting at for a long time. Given the financial position of AJIB and Wael’s obsession with being a football “personality” taking this position is entirely understandable from their point of view. But from Rovers point of view it weakens our position considerably. We could have been in a position to say “we are BRFC, we are in League 1 of the EFL, we have a current active fan base of x thousand and a potential fan base of y thousand, we have no debt, we have been offered the lease on an impressive new stadium at a rent of z thousand per year and here is an outline business plan which will convince you that by investing a substantial amount of cash into ownership of 92%/100% of our club you will able to use your business acumen to transform us into a Championship team with Premiership potential. Instead, it seems to me, we are going to be saying “ we are BRFC, we are in League 1 of the EFL, we have a current active fan base of x thousand and a potential fan base of y thousand, we have no debt, and we will sell you 70% of the club if you will put up a few millions to keep us going till we can find someone to build us a stadium somewhere, and don’t worry, Wael, Martyn and Tom will still be here to make sure not much changes and we’ll try to keep losses under control this time. Can you tell it’s the Thanksgiving holiday over here ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 19:57:09 GMT
I don't want to sound like poor old BlueSky, but, unless you have information that you can't/won't share, this is just guesswork. Here's an alternative possibility. Our Mayor is involved because he wants his legacy to be that he's the person who finally delivered the Arena, and he sees a multi-use complex, and BCC being the authority that will issue the PP to develop that entire area as a package that he can put together. The problem here is that Rovers could end up with property developers who have little, if any interest in football as owners. If that were the case, and I have no evidence that it is, it's pure speculation on my part, but if it were, then Dwayne would be acting in Rovers' best interests distancing the club from being tenants in a stadium that they don't own whilst being owned by people who see the club as a liability. Can you explain why my scenario is more or less likely than yours?Given the extreme reaction from our previous Mayor to YTL's proposals last week, you have to wonder what his interest is as well? Well - both are speculation, so it's speculation to say which is more or less likely. But IMHO - swissgas has been pretty much on the money as far as I'm concerned for the last 2 1/2 years. And it's Dwane. Not Dwayne (as in Dwane Dibley). UTG. But there's a difference, I'm wrapping everything that I say in caveats and explaining as we go along that I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes, Swiss on the other hand starts by saying that it's speculation but concludes with a prophecy of certain disaster and presents it as if it's about to occur, and then lays the blame for that squarely at the door of our present owners. It just feels a bit unfair. Of course, if he has evidence to support what he's saying, then he should just spit it out. It's difficult to see if, as appears to be the case, a development of several hundred million quid is planned in that area, the debt that Rovers presently have should be much of a stumbling block. Either way, just threaten to leak details to Knowall, he'll have the embarrassing dirt all over the internet within minutes As Swiss keeps saying, these owners will want to get out with both their money and their reputation intact. Thanks for the spell check BTW, appreciated
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 20:08:34 GMT
I don't want to sound like poor old BlueSky, but, unless you have information that you can't/won't share, this is just guesswork. Here's an alternative possibility. Our Mayor is involved because he wants his legacy to be that he's the person who finally delivered the Arena, and he sees a multi-use complex, and BCC being the authority that will issue the PP to develop that entire area as a package that he can put together. The problem here is that Rovers could end up with property developers who have little, if any interest in football as owners. If that were the case, and I have no evidence that it is, it's pure speculation on my part, but if it were, then Dwayne would be acting in Rovers' best interests distancing the club from being tenants in a stadium that they don't own whilst being owned by people who see the club as a liability. Can you explain why my scenario is more or less likely than yours? Given the extreme reaction from our previous Mayor to YTL's proposals last week, you have to wonder what his interest is as well? I have received some tit bits of information which have the ring of truth about them and which I don’t want to share but these are only small pieces in the bigger picture which is easily put together from published sources. And part of the picture does include your scenario but the issues of tenancy at a stadium and owners not totally committed to football are ones which IMO could be overcome. When the media finally revealed that Dwane Sports wanted to extricate themselves from Rovers financially, but Wael wanted to stay on, it confirmed what the ITK’ers had been hinting at for a long time. Given the financial position of AJIB and Wael’s obsession with being a football “personality” taking this position is entirely understandable from their point of view. But from Rovers point of view it weakens our position considerably. We could have been in a position to say “we are BRFC, we are in League 1 of the EFL, we have a current active fan base of x thousand and a potential fan base of y thousand, we have no debt, we have been offered the lease on an impressive new stadium at a rent of z thousand per year and here is an outline business plan which will convince you that by investing a substantial amount of cash into ownership of 92%/100% of our club you will able to use your business acumen to transform us into a Championship team with Premiership potential. Instead, it seems to me, we are going to be saying “ we are BRFC, we are in League 1 of the EFL, we have a current active fan base of x thousand and a potential fan base of y thousand, we have no debt, and we will sell you 70% of the club if you will put up a few millions to keep us going till we can find someone to build us a stadium somewhere, and don’t worry, Wael, Martyn and Tom will still be here to make sure not much changes and we’ll try to keep losses under control this time. Can you tell it’s the Thanksgiving holiday over here ? You are beginning to sound a bit angry because, if I understand correctly, your view is that Hani is resisting property developers being forced to take the club as part of a deal to get what they want around Temple Meads and St Phillips, Rovers owning nothing and being tenants in a stadium in a daft location, and handing the club over to indifferent owners who have not yet established a management team to oversee their football 'investment'. Just remind me why this is a good thing again please?
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Post by swissgas on Nov 29, 2019 21:06:00 GMT
I have received some tit bits of information which have the ring of truth about them and which I don’t want to share but these are only small pieces in the bigger picture which is easily put together from published sources. And part of the picture does include your scenario but the issues of tenancy at a stadium and owners not totally committed to football are ones which IMO could be overcome. When the media finally revealed that Dwane Sports wanted to extricate themselves from Rovers financially, but Wael wanted to stay on, it confirmed what the ITK’ers had been hinting at for a long time. Given the financial position of AJIB and Wael’s obsession with being a football “personality” taking this position is entirely understandable from their point of view. But from Rovers point of view it weakens our position considerably. We could have been in a position to say “we are BRFC, we are in League 1 of the EFL, we have a current active fan base of x thousand and a potential fan base of y thousand, we have no debt, we have been offered the lease on an impressive new stadium at a rent of z thousand per year and here is an outline business plan which will convince you that by investing a substantial amount of cash into ownership of 92%/100% of our club you will able to use your business acumen to transform us into a Championship team with Premiership potential. Instead, it seems to me, we are going to be saying “ we are BRFC, we are in League 1 of the EFL, we have a current active fan base of x thousand and a potential fan base of y thousand, we have no debt, and we will sell you 70% of the club if you will put up a few millions to keep us going till we can find someone to build us a stadium somewhere, and don’t worry, Wael, Martyn and Tom will still be here to make sure not much changes and we’ll try to keep losses under control this time. Can you tell it’s the Thanksgiving holiday over here ? You are beginning to sound a bit angry because, if I understand correctly, your view is that Hani is resisting property developers being forced to take the club as part of a deal to get what they want around Temple Meads and St Phillips, Rovers owning nothing and being tenants in a stadium in a daft location, and handing the club over to indifferent owners who have not yet established a management team to oversee their football 'investment'. Just remind me why this is a good thing again please? No, Rovers would own the £15 - 20 million or so with which we would be initially capitalized by the new investors. So with this starting point, plus the surge in revenue which a central location should provide, we would be on to a good thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 21:33:28 GMT
I don't want to sound like poor old BlueSky, but, unless you have information that you can't/won't share, this is just guesswork. Here's an alternative possibility. Our Mayor is involved because he wants his legacy to be that he's the person who finally delivered the Arena, and he sees a multi-use complex, and BCC being the authority that will issue the PP to develop that entire area as a package that he can put together. The problem here is that Rovers could end up with property developers who have little, if any interest in football as owners. If that were the case, and I have no evidence that it is, it's pure speculation on my part, but if it were, then Dwayne would be acting in Rovers' best interests distancing the club from being tenants in a stadium that they don't own whilst being owned by people who see the club as a liability. Can you explain why my scenario is more or less likely than yours?Given the extreme reaction from our previous Mayor to YTL's proposals last week, you have to wonder what his interest is as well? Well - both are speculation, so it's speculation to say which is more or less likely. But IMHO - swissgas has been pretty much on the money as far as I'm concerned for the last 2 1/2 years. And it's Dwane. Not Dwayne (as in Dwane Dibley). UTG. How can you be "on the money" if none of the dark warnings you have put out have materialised?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 21:35:20 GMT
In my view with a new ground and the same quality team average gates would drop further at the fruit market.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 22:10:07 GMT
You are beginning to sound a bit angry because, if I understand correctly, your view is that Hani is resisting property developers being forced to take the club as part of a deal to get what they want around Temple Meads and St Phillips, Rovers owning nothing and being tenants in a stadium in a daft location, and handing the club over to indifferent owners who have not yet established a management team to oversee their football 'investment'. Just remind me why this is a good thing again please? No, Rovers would own the £15 - 20 million or so with which we would be initially capitalized by the new investors. So with this starting point, plus the surge in revenue which a central location should provide, we would be on to a good thing. More people would automatically go to a location that's more difficult to access. Makes sense. Debt is debt, nothing would change, except you haven't explained who would cover the extra losses between now and the day the first ball is kicked in the new stadium, so probably nearer £25m of debt. Add to that, as you aren't disputing it, you are also assuming that we would have reluctant owners. We should take this to Dragons' Den. I can see it now. So, you want us to invest in a loss making industry that we have no expertise in and buy a company with a single asset worth circa £5m less than the existing debt. I'm sure we'll have the Dragons fighting to invest. Anyway, it sounds like you are getting your excuses in early as those developers will probably want no part of it and will know how to work the planning system so that they get to build what they want where they want.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 29, 2019 22:20:44 GMT
In my view with a new ground and the same quality team average gates would drop further at the fruit market. It would have to be a new team on and off the pitch and that’s why having the right initial capitalization is so important. What I am putting forward is the idea of completely new BRFC far removed from the “rag bag” image we are familiar with. One where the new owners accept the challenge of making us slick, professional and sustainable but ensure we retain all the good things which the club has such as the community department and the enthusiasm of fans who make a difference by volunteering such as the Helpline people, The Presidents and Supporters Club and the lads who make the podcasts. This is how we can differentiate ourselves from Bristol City. In fact, having listened to the most recent podcast, the situation Rovers have been in for the last year or more has become clearer. Within the club it seems to have been common knowledge that Steve Hamer and Ken Masters were working to try to do a deal with the Fruit Market developers and were passing leaks to the ITK’ers. Hani was looking for a deal and so was prepared to go along with this despite opposition from other Board members and it was only when the deal stalled that he was willing to bow to demands to sacrifice Steve Hamer. As much as I like these podcasts and strongly applaud the initiative shown I do think this edition was too one sided and didn’t give Steve Hamer a fair hearing. It also virtually wrote off Ken Masters as “yesterday’s man” which leaves one of our Directors in a difficult position unless he is next for the short sharp chop. From the outside it does seem Steve and Ken could have handled it better but it is surprising that younger generation Gasheads so easily dismiss an effort to secure Rovers a 21st century standard stadium and side so readily with those responsible for the financial side of the business which, it cannot be denied, looks like a disaster zone.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 29, 2019 22:48:23 GMT
No, Rovers would own the £15 - 20 million or so with which we would be initially capitalized by the new investors. So with this starting point, plus the surge in revenue which a central location should provide, we would be on to a good thing. More people would automatically go to a location that's more difficult to access. Makes sense. Debt is debt, nothing would change, except you haven't explained who would cover the extra losses between now and the day the first ball is kicked in the new stadium, so probably nearer £25m of debt. Add to that, as you aren't disputing it, you are also assuming that we would have reluctant owners. We should take this to Dragons' Den. I can see it now. So, you want us to invest in a loss making industry that we have no expertise in and buy a company with a single asset worth circa £5m less than the existing debt. I'm sure we'll have the Dragons fighting to invest. Anyway, it sounds like you are getting your excuses in early as those developers will probably want no part of it and will know how to work the planning system so that they get to build what they want where they want. I don’t have much experience of property development or sports stadiums but I have talked to people who do (one of them has built more stadiums than Wael’s people) and I’ve learned that there is a trend towards inner city/ urban regeneration site located stadiums rather than out of town development. I can’t back this up with any stats or supporting articles but I took what was said to be legitimate because the conversation was about the UWE where I was putting forward location as an advantage but was knocked back by someone in a better position than me to know. What I am suggesting is that Dwane Sports sign an agreement to sell the Mem and keep all the proceeds but give Rovers say three years tenancy while the new stadium is built and charge a rent which ensures their financial position does not improve or deteriorate. And they agree to transfer the shares of the football club to new owners at no cost as Nick Higgs and Co did. The developers, in conjunction with representatives of the club, then use industry experts to help prepare a prospectus outlining the business plan and tenancy terms of the new stadium with the aim of finding the best possible owner for the football club and tenant for the developers. The new owners would not be taking on any debt just the lease obligations of the stadium. Every penny they put in would be theirs to spend on the football club. There are many people with substantial funding who want to get into British football and are prepared to put up risk capital which is what is needed. The challenge is having a project which will attract them and then convincing them to go ahead. Rovers alone don’t have the means to do that but by teaming with the AIM listed potential Fruit Market developers and the City Council I think it would have a chance of success.
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Post by droitwichgas on Nov 29, 2019 23:12:33 GMT
More people would automatically go to a location that's more difficult to access. Makes sense. Debt is debt, nothing would change, except you haven't explained who would cover the extra losses between now and the day the first ball is kicked in the new stadium, so probably nearer £25m of debt. Add to that, as you aren't disputing it, you are also assuming that we would have reluctant owners. We should take this to Dragons' Den. I can see it now. So, you want us to invest in a loss making industry that we have no expertise in and buy a company with a single asset worth circa £5m less than the existing debt. I'm sure we'll have the Dragons fighting to invest. Anyway, it sounds like you are getting your excuses in early as those developers will probably want no part of it and will know how to work the planning system so that they get to build what they want where they want. I don’t have much experience of property development or sports stadiums but I have talked to people who do (one of them has built more stadiums than Wael’s people) and I’ve learned that there is a trend towards inner city/ urban regeneration site located stadiums rather than out of town development. I can’t back this up with any stats or supporting articles but I took what was said to be legitimate because the conversation was about the UWE where I was putting forward location as an advantage but was knocked back by someone in a better position than me to know. What I am suggesting is that Dwane Sports sign an agreement to sell the Mem and keep all the proceeds but give Rovers say three years tenancy while the new stadium is built and charge a rent which ensures their financial position does not improve or deteriorate. And they agree to transfer the shares of the football club to new owners at no cost as Nick Higgs and Co did. The developers, in conjunction with representatives of the club, then use industry experts to help prepare a prospectus outlining the business plan and tenancy terms of the new stadium with the aim of finding the best possible owner for the football club and tenant for the developers. The new owners would not be taking on any debt just the lease obligations of the stadium. Every penny they put in would be theirs to spend on the football club. There are many people with substantial funding who want to get into British football and are prepared to put up risk capital which is what is needed. The challenge is having a project which will attract them and then convincing them to go ahead. Rovers alone don’t have the means to do that but by teaming with the AIM listed potential Fruit Market developers and the City Council I think it would have a chance of success. Wasn't that a similar plan to Coventry's when they sold Highfield Rd and moved to the Ricoh Areana, what could possibly go wrong? Given the ALQ's have a win, win situation, they get rid of Rovers and make some money from the Mem sale then why didn't they proceed?
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bondigas
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Post by bondigas on Nov 29, 2019 23:16:35 GMT
Very interesting viewpoint Swiss, has the incredible unprompted radio interview last August in Blackpool scuppered the fruit market deal and blown a real chance of a proper stadium being built at last for Rovers. You mention "chancers" in earlier posts, are they now circling the club like vultures in the hope something comes their way in desperation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2019 23:17:44 GMT
More people would automatically go to a location that's more difficult to access. Makes sense. Debt is debt, nothing would change, except you haven't explained who would cover the extra losses between now and the day the first ball is kicked in the new stadium, so probably nearer £25m of debt. Add to that, as you aren't disputing it, you are also assuming that we would have reluctant owners. We should take this to Dragons' Den. I can see it now. So, you want us to invest in a loss making industry that we have no expertise in and buy a company with a single asset worth circa £5m less than the existing debt. I'm sure we'll have the Dragons fighting to invest. Anyway, it sounds like you are getting your excuses in early as those developers will probably want no part of it and will know how to work the planning system so that they get to build what they want where they want. I don’t have much experience of property development or sports stadiums but I have talked to people who do (one of them has built more stadiums than Wael’s people) and I’ve learned that there is a trend towards inner city/ urban regeneration site located stadiums rather than out of town development. I can’t back this up with any stats or supporting articles but I took what was said to be legitimate because the conversation was about the UWE where I was putting forward location as an advantage but was knocked back by someone in a better position than me to know. What I am suggesting is that Dwane Sports sign an agreement to sell the Mem and keep all the proceeds but give Rovers say three years tenancy while the new stadium is built and charge a rent which ensures their financial position does not improve or deteriorate. And they agree to transfer the shares of the football club to new owners at no cost as Nick Higgs and Co did. The developers, in conjunction with representatives of the club, then use industry experts to help prepare a prospectus outlining the business plan and tenancy terms of the new stadium with the aim of finding the best possible owner for the football club and tenant for the developers. The new owners would not be taking on any debt just the lease obligations of the stadium. Every penny they put in would be theirs to spend on the football club. There are many people with substantial funding who want to get into British football and are prepared to put up risk capital which is what is needed. The challenge is having a project which will attract them and then convincing them to go ahead. Rovers alone don’t have the means to do that but by teaming with the AIM listed potential Fruit Market developers and the City Council I think it would have a chance of success. Again, skilfully written, but all you've done is swap any equity in the existing ground for debt on the new stadium, the numbers don't change, debt is still debt and whoever puts the money up will want to be repaid. I wonder if our perception of the difference between inner / outer City developments is one of scale? I'm not suggesting moving 10 miles out of town, which, based on my limited experience of doing business in USA, where people say that something is 'just down the road' when it's 100 miles away, could be causing some confusion. My idea of 'out of town' is adjacent to main road networks and with adequate parking and public transport. You simply don't have that in St Phillips, and weekday evening matches will be a total disaster for incoming traffic. I'm not sure how long ago you left this area, but traffic congestion is a major issue here and there's no practical public transport option. Again, using you talent as a writer, and you are very good, credit where it's due, you have glossed over the financial liability of this notional 3 years that Rovers would stay in BS7. If you have a magic formula to make ownership cost neutral whilst retaining League position then give Hani a call, he'll be delighted to hear from you.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 29, 2019 23:40:04 GMT
I don’t have much experience of property development or sports stadiums but I have talked to people who do (one of them has built more stadiums than Wael’s people) and I’ve learned that there is a trend towards inner city/ urban regeneration site located stadiums rather than out of town development. I can’t back this up with any stats or supporting articles but I took what was said to be legitimate because the conversation was about the UWE where I was putting forward location as an advantage but was knocked back by someone in a better position than me to know. What I am suggesting is that Dwane Sports sign an agreement to sell the Mem and keep all the proceeds but give Rovers say three years tenancy while the new stadium is built and charge a rent which ensures their financial position does not improve or deteriorate. And they agree to transfer the shares of the football club to new owners at no cost as Nick Higgs and Co did. The developers, in conjunction with representatives of the club, then use industry experts to help prepare a prospectus outlining the business plan and tenancy terms of the new stadium with the aim of finding the best possible owner for the football club and tenant for the developers. The new owners would not be taking on any debt just the lease obligations of the stadium. Every penny they put in would be theirs to spend on the football club. There are many people with substantial funding who want to get into British football and are prepared to put up risk capital which is what is needed. The challenge is having a project which will attract them and then convincing them to go ahead. Rovers alone don’t have the means to do that but by teaming with the AIM listed potential Fruit Market developers and the City Council I think it would have a chance of success. Wasn't that a similar plan to Coventry's when they sold Highfield Rd and moved to the Ricoh Areana, what could possibly go wrong? Given the ALQ's have a win, win situation, they get rid of Rovers and make some money from the Mem sale then why didn't they proceed? From what I know of the Coventry situation they were losing money heavily and couldn’t make Highfield Road sustainable so so they sold it for development and chased the dream of owning a new stadium which would make them sustainable. Then they ran out of cash. Cash is absolutely vital for any business and sometimes it is best to accept that you cannot own the land and buildings you operate from and use the cash you have or the cash you can attract to make the business successful. Once you are successful and generating cash you can decide whether using that cash to own land and buildings would be beneficial to the business.
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Post by swissgas on Nov 30, 2019 0:07:37 GMT
I don’t have much experience of property development or sports stadiums but I have talked to people who do (one of them has built more stadiums than Wael’s people) and I’ve learned that there is a trend towards inner city/ urban regeneration site located stadiums rather than out of town development. I can’t back this up with any stats or supporting articles but I took what was said to be legitimate because the conversation was about the UWE where I was putting forward location as an advantage but was knocked back by someone in a better position than me to know. What I am suggesting is that Dwane Sports sign an agreement to sell the Mem and keep all the proceeds but give Rovers say three years tenancy while the new stadium is built and charge a rent which ensures their financial position does not improve or deteriorate. And they agree to transfer the shares of the football club to new owners at no cost as Nick Higgs and Co did. The developers, in conjunction with representatives of the club, then use industry experts to help prepare a prospectus outlining the business plan and tenancy terms of the new stadium with the aim of finding the best possible owner for the football club and tenant for the developers. The new owners would not be taking on any debt just the lease obligations of the stadium. Every penny they put in would be theirs to spend on the football club. There are many people with substantial funding who want to get into British football and are prepared to put up risk capital which is what is needed. The challenge is having a project which will attract them and then convincing them to go ahead. Rovers alone don’t have the means to do that but by teaming with the AIM listed potential Fruit Market developers and the City Council I think it would have a chance of success. Again, skilfully written, but all you've done is swap any equity in the existing ground for debt on the new stadium, the numbers don't change, debt is still debt and whoever puts the money up will want to be repaid. I wonder if our perception of the difference between inner / outer City developments is one of scale? I'm not suggesting moving 10 miles out of town, which, based on my limited experience of doing business in USA, where people say that something is 'just down the road' when it's 100 miles away, could be causing some confusion. My idea of 'out of town' is adjacent to main road networks and with adequate parking and public transport. You simply don't have that in St Phillips, and weekday evening matches will be a total disaster for incoming traffic. I'm not sure how long ago you left this area, but traffic congestion is a major issue here and there's no practical public transport option. Again, using you talent as a writer, and you are very good, credit where it's due, you have glossed over the financial liability of this notional 3 years that Rovers would stay in BS7. If you have a magic formula to make ownership cost neutral whilst retaining League position then give Hani a call, he'll be delighted to hear from you. I’m proposing a potential deal where we accept that Dwane Sports own the Mem and can do what they like with it and Dwane Sports accept that they have not made a good job of running the football club and it would be better for everyone if a clean break was made. Dwane Sports therefore take everything from the proceeds of the Mem sale and we accept that Rovers will rent a new stadium. To make this deal work Dwane Sports accept that they cannot get access to the sale proceeds for three years but their financial position will not worsen. The developers accept that they will pay rent to Dwane Sports and fund any losses during the transition period but have a huge incentive to make the football club work because they are carrying the stadium costs and need new owners/tenants. The new owners of Rovers put cash into the club as equity not debt and this cash is used to fund the staffing and other infrastructure needed at the new stadium. So Rovers start afresh with no debt, properly capitalized and with a new stadium which provides opportunities for revenue generation seven days a week.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 0:13:52 GMT
I’m proposing a potential deal where we accept that Dwane Sports own the Mem and can do what they like with it... Dwane Sports therefore take everything from the proceeds of the Mem sale and we accept that Rovers will rent a new stadium. I will never.
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