Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 9:36:20 GMT
"continue"? No. I believe the word you are looking for is "begin". So far all Dwane Sports have done is spent the equity that existed within the Memorial Stadium. Previous owners did indeed put their hands in their pockets to cover annual losses (though of course these annual losses were tiny in relation to what Dwane Sports have managed to rack up). Under Nick Higgs the others directors patience (and cash) ran out when he started to pursue Sainsbury's through the courts... hence the wonga loan. I think we are owned by bankers, who value profit (or at least avoiding losses) above anything else. Some people cling to the belief that Wael is a benevolent Gashead and that he is in it "for the long run". It's a free country. Think what you like. Well we are playing semantics. Until Dwane Sports actually recoup any money from The Mem, the cash is coming from somewhere in the meantime How much would you like to borrow at 6%? I'll instruct my accountant to call it a loan, spending, whatever makes you happy. But you'll have to give me first charge over a property mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 9:40:00 GMT
Well condensed and explained. I would add to that, I would be worried about the judgement of anybody who would take on a yo-yo 3rd / 4th tier club and have to build a stadium, and then have the starting point being somewhere ITRO -£60m. Why would you do this? Just buy a Championship club, or wait for the next Bolton and save yourself the ball ache of building a stadium. I smell self-interest with little regard for the future of BRFC being played out in front of us. Which of these two scenarios is the worst possible outcome in your opinion ? I don't understand your question. What two potential outcomes?
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 14, 2019 10:00:39 GMT
If the Fruit Bowl Stadium was 'only' an add-on to a much larger regeneration of St Phillips... I would say that is a far better option then staying where we are and stagnating/decaying under Dwane Sports. Requires quite a leap of faith admittedly. I'm ready to leap. Re: Dwane Sports - I hear some people trot out the "better the devil you know" excuse. A depressing state of affairs. And to pre empt your question Bambi - I have absolutely no idea how the numbers would stack up.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,412
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Post by harrybuckle on Oct 14, 2019 10:51:47 GMT
Is this unfounded rumour correct Steve Lansdown has recently become a major shareholder of fruit produce who are one of the three landowners of the fruit market and now wishes for them to stay at St Philips rather re locate to Avonmouth
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Oct 14, 2019 11:11:42 GMT
'unfounded rumour correct' English still not your first language, then.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 11:21:40 GMT
'unfounded rumour correct' English still not your first language, then. Aren't you missing a question mark at the end of that? No need for thanks, just trying to help.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 11:25:41 GMT
If the Fruit Bowl Stadium was 'only' an add-on to a much larger regeneration of St Phillips... I would say that is a far better option then staying where we are and stagnating/decaying under Dwane Sports. Requires quite a leap of faith admittedly. I'm ready to leap. Re: Dwane Sports - I hear some people trot out the "better the devil you know" excuse. A depressing state of affairs. And to pre empt your question Bambi - I have absolutely no idea how the numbers would stack up. The numbers don't work, unless The Mem site is worth a lot more than we realise. Bolton are stuffed with £40m of debt, and they already have a stadium and infrastructure in place. Would be nice for these dreamers consortium members to break cover and explain how they are going to make this work financially. In the back of my mind I keep getting stuck with the thought that we could end up with houses on The Mem, a couple of people making a huge pile of dosh and no new stadium.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 11:25:47 GMT
The owners situation is the same as most clubs in the country in that the club relies on them to prop up a loss making football club. I have no idea if they will continue to fund the club but neither do you or swiss. "continue"? No. I believe the word you are looking for is "begin". So far all Dwane Sports have done is spent the equity that existed within the Memorial Stadium. Previous owners did indeed put their hands in their pockets to cover annual losses (though of course these annual losses were tiny in relation to what Dwane Sports have managed to rack up). Under Nick Higgs the others directors patience (and cash) ran out when he started to pursue Sainsbury's through the courts... hence the wonga loan. I think we are owned by bankers, who value profit (or at least avoiding losses) above anything else. Some people cling to the belief that Wael is a benevolent Gashead and that he is in it "for the long run". It's a free country. Think what you like. So at what point will you say "this is strange their still here at the club"? Or will you keep moving the goal posts if they stay? Do bankers usually give things away? i mean the club is not worth anything surely now?
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Oct 14, 2019 11:30:20 GMT
'unfounded rumour correct' English still not your first language, then. Aren't you missing a question mark at the end of that? No need for thanks, just trying to help. It was a statement, an affirmation.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 11:39:44 GMT
Aren't you missing a question mark at the end of that? No need for thanks, just trying to help. It was a statement, an affirmation. 'English still not your first language, then.' That's not a statement as such. In fact, it doesn't actually make any sense. Probably not bottom of the class, but certainly not top.
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 14, 2019 11:46:55 GMT
Which of these two scenarios is the worst possible outcome in your opinion ? I don't understand your question. What two potential outcomes? The family do a runner and we go bust or the new owners do give a f*** and just want to make money out of us which is the worst evil in your eyes ?
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Post by billyocean on Oct 14, 2019 11:53:15 GMT
It was a statement, an affirmation. 'English still not your first language, then.' I'm not sure how a language could ever become your first language after not being so, unless you own a modified DeLorean. It was either your first language or it wasn't
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Post by Henbury Gas on Oct 14, 2019 11:59:32 GMT
'English still not your first language, then.' I'm not sure how a language could ever become your first language after not being so, unless you own a modified DeLorean. It was either your first language or it wasn't This is all part of Bambers HA, divide and conquer, to keep us lemmings under control
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 12:06:00 GMT
Our Dido's rarely made to look an ass, 'The Fruit Bowl' wins the points for Epping Gas.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,109
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 14, 2019 12:22:05 GMT
"continue"? No. I believe the word you are looking for is "begin". So far all Dwane Sports have done is spent the equity that existed within the Memorial Stadium. Previous owners did indeed put their hands in their pockets to cover annual losses (though of course these annual losses were tiny in relation to what Dwane Sports have managed to rack up). Under Nick Higgs the others directors patience (and cash) ran out when he started to pursue Sainsbury's through the courts... hence the wonga loan. I think we are owned by bankers, who value profit (or at least avoiding losses) above anything else. Some people cling to the belief that Wael is a benevolent Gashead and that he is in it "for the long run". It's a free country. Think what you like. So at what point will you say "this is strange their still here at the club"? Or will you keep moving the goal posts if they stay? Do bankers usually give things away? i mean the club is not worth anything surely now? Q: So at what point will you say "this is strange they're still here at the club"? A: Don't think I've ever said that. It is worrying that they haven't found a buyer yet. Q: Or will you keep moving the goal posts if they stay? A: I'm not moving any goal posts. I do know that the longer they stay, the higher the price tag gets, currently to the tune of £3mil a year. It's a bitter irony which I'm sure is not lost on them. The longer they stay, the less likely they are to find a buyer. Q: Do bankers usually give things away? i mean the club is not worth anything surely now? A: No, they aren't going to give anything away. They will (obviously) try and maximise returns - it's what investment banks do. The Club is worth what someone will pay for it. I'm guessing that's £18mil (which is approximately the value of the Memorial Stadium) +maybe another couple of mil to cover other assets (current playing squad and the database of supporters - hard to monetise that one). As has been discussed - purchase BRFC (say £20mil) and find money to build a stadium (say £50mil) and you have spent £70mil to buy a business that hasn't actually made any money in the last 10* years. Interesting that when Bechetti sold Orient for £4mil - the new owners effectively bought a badge and a database of supporters (as Orient doesn't own Brisbane Road). But Travis is a lifelong O's supporter. He is a benevolent owner and has financial backing from the US (Kent Teague). I'm hoping as part of a 'bigger regeneration picture' at St Phillips someone might come up with a business strategy that would get us a stadium and sustainable Football Club. Still going to take a fair while to recoup £70mil though. * Random guess. If someone could say when BRFC last returned a profit that would be appreciated.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 12:26:16 GMT
I don't understand your question. What two potential outcomes? The family do a runner and we go bust or the new owners do give a f*** and just want to make money out of us which is the worst evil in your eyes ? That's like being asked which knee you want hit with a baseball bat!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 12:31:58 GMT
'English still not your first language, then.' I'm not sure how a language could ever become your first language after not being so, unless you own a modified DeLorean. It was either your first language or it wasn't In this context I took it as meaning primary language, but it was still potentially flawed as Harry may be even worse at expressing himself in other languages. I think we should just hand this over to JRM, he would sort it out, and give us all 500 lines to write, in some dead language.
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harrybuckle
Always look on the bright side
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,412
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Post by harrybuckle on Oct 14, 2019 13:09:58 GMT
Aren't you missing a question mark at the end of that? No need for thanks, just trying to help. It was a statement, an affirmation. What is an affirmation ? My anglo saxon is not what it should be. Brexit means Brexit indeed
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Post by swissgas on Oct 14, 2019 14:44:13 GMT
Its called a home equity credit line Vertigo and this is how you do it. Find a vulnerable person with a home worth say 200 000 who is at their wits end struggling to pay their way and use your charm to get them to sell it to you for say 70 000. Borrow the 70 000 secured against the property and take out a home equity credit line for say 100 000. Now if you are not keen on wine, women and song you could always have a wonderful time spending the money on, say, international travel, giving sinecures to your friends and making sure you always had the latest mega mega mega pixel phone so your selfies were sure to be top notch, plus of course paying the interest on the loan. Now all good things come to an end and at some point the money will run out. But just before it does you sell the house, pay off the credit lines and go looking for another vulnerable person to repeat the exercise. The most incredible thing about all this is that you can live perpetually in dreamland but it won’t ever cost you a penny. Even i can understand that principe Now can i ask your opinion on equity release mortgages please Certainly Henbury, as long as I'm not being lured into a HA trap My perception is that once you use the word mortgage it refers to a fixed period with fixed repayments and a tendency to be used for something specific like a home extension or maybe a big one off expense like a wedding. Something which you feel is essential to have, but don't have the cash put aside for, so a mortgage is a good solution as long as you are confident you will have the means to repay it. In Rovers terms let me paint a scenario of what might have happened if Wael had announced ..... " Through a company we have formed called Dwane Colony Ltd our family have purchased a piece of land at Almondsbury which is to be developed as a training centre for BRFC. The benefits of having our own training centre are that we can bring all teams together in one place, our coaching staff will have better control over how they plan and carry out their work and the facility will make us a more attractive proposition when recruiting new players. Although the site will not initially have planning consent for revenue generating commercial activities to benefit BRFC this is something we feel could be possible and which we will explore. Detailed research and consultation has shown that the cost of the development is £5 million and the timescale from start to finish is two years. Funding for the development of the new training centre will come through remortgaging the Mem. The cost of the ten year fixed rate interest only mortgage will be £300 000 pa with an opportunity to pay off the loan at any time during the period without penalty or, prior to expiry, extend the loan period to twenty years at variable rate. There will be a formal agreement between Dwane Colony Ltd and BRFC to safeguard the interests of both parties. Currently the club is paying £100 000 pa for rented training facilities but we believe the increased annual expenditure of £200 000 for new superior facilities will be worth it. We trust our supporters will agree and be fully supportive of this venture which is another step in the evolution of our club." Undoubtedly there would have been arguments against this. "Why don't Rovers own it", "Is it a scam to make money for the Al-Qadi's ?" "Why risk the Mem why not put up the money themselves ?" But, as part of a sensible business plan, you would have found me and I'm sure quite a few other Al-Qadi critics arguing vehemently for it. Because we want to see Rovers progress. We are not anti anyone we are just pro Rovers.
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Post by a more piratey game on Oct 14, 2019 15:39:54 GMT
" Through a company we have formed called Dwane Colony Ltd our family have purchased a piece of land at Almondsbury which is to be developed as a training centre for BRFC. The benefits of having our own training centre are that we can bring all teams together in one place, our coaching staff will have better control over how they plan and carry out their work and the facility will make us a more attractive proposition when recruiting new players. Although the site will not initially have planning consent for revenue generating commercial activities to benefit BRFC this is something we feel could be possible and which we will explore. Detailed research and consultation has shown that the cost of the development is £5 million and the timescale from start to finish is two years. Funding for the development of the new training centre will come through remortgaging the Mem. The cost of the ten year fixed rate interest only mortgage will be £300 000 pa with an opportunity to pay off the loan at any time during the period without penalty or, prior to expiry, extend the loan period to twenty years at variable rate. There will be a formal agreement between Dwane Colony Ltd and BRFC to safeguard the interests of both parties. Currently the club is paying £100 000 pa for rented training facilities but we believe the increased annual expenditure of £200 000 for new superior facilities will be worth it. We trust our supporters will agree and be fully supportive of this venture which is another step in the evolution of our club." Undoubtedly there would have been arguments against this. "Why don't Rovers own it", "Is it a scam to make money for the Al-Qadi's ?" "Why risk the Mem why not put up the money themselves ?" But, as part of a sensible business plan, you would have found me and I'm sure quite a few other Al-Qadi critics arguing vehemently for it. Because we want to see Rovers progress. We are not anti anyone we are just pro Rovers. blimey, that's so word-perfectly plausible it's almost deepfake
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