irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 1, 2019 12:45:37 GMT
Well we have well and truly given up the initiative there. Either Anderson has picked up a niggle, or he wasn't fit enough for selection, or Root has had a terrible morning and has completely failed to see that the game was up for grabs with Australia 35/3 and Smith under all kinds of pressure. It's not unsalvageable but who knows what was possible if Jimmy had bowled 7 overs in that session. He's injured. Bugger. Rotten luck but given Anderson, Broad, Stokes and Woakes have all had niggles over the last 12 months we could have mitigated that risk by picking an extra bowler. Yeah I really don't understand why we did this. If anyone was going to be left out Anderson should have been to give him an extra week to recover. Archer was playing last week. Could cost us in this game.
Definitely our morning but I think the Aussies will be pleased at the way they've countered where in the past they have found themselves 5-6 down before lunch. This afternoon session is big to see if Aussies can build on this platform to get their noses in front in the match. 160-180ish for 4 would at tea would be a reasonable ambition from here and put them in a pretty strong position I think. Anderson's absence will knock England's confidence - the longer we go without a breakthrough, the bigger problem it will seem.
Also agree with you on Denly Jack. I've seen nothing throughout his whole career to suggest that he could do this job. Baffling selection and, yes, hard to not to conclude there's a bit of Kent bias going on there.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 1, 2019 17:37:32 GMT
Well this is a disaster. I'm not sure today could have gone much worse, but brace yourselves for 10/2 at the close!
We have to ensure we always have some pace in the team. If archer wasn't fit, stone should have played. I know they've been unlucky with Anderson's injury but I just feel that more often than not, express pace stops sides recovering from 120/8 to post the best part of 300.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 1, 2019 21:51:45 GMT
Well this is a disaster. I'm not sure today could have gone much worse, but brace yourselves for 10/2 at the close! We have to ensure we always have some pace in the team. If archer wasn't fit, stone should have played. I know they've been unlucky with Anderson's injury but I just feel that more often than not, express pace stops sides recovering from 120/8 to post the best part of 300. Yeah although think you have to take your hat off to Smith. That was one of the great Ashes innings he just played. Well we wanted a competitive series - I think we're going to get one now. Let's hope England's batsmen can respond tomorrow in what's looking like similarly testing early morning conditions. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 2, 2019 23:20:32 GMT
Well today was an old fashioned test match day. Few fireworks but a steady just under 3-an-over rate. But a very important day and with only 4 wickets going down yet the Aussies bowled well. But England batted well. I thought Root was unlucky with that great catch and even thought Denly played well whilst he was there. Stokes really has matured as a player, responsibility and solidity to go with his explosiveness which we didn’t see today.
Another point after today. I thought Marais Erasmus was superb as an umpire last week getting most things right. But today, oh dear, the umpires were poor. Wrong decisions that weren’t reviewed by the captains, which was also bad judgement, wrong decisions that were overruled by the reviews. In the past cricket umpires have been pretty good but players must be losing a bit of faith in some of their decisions. Part of the problem is that with only limited reviews captains can’t review everything and they have to be selective which means bad decisions go unchallenged. And, btw, I’m not advocating more than they have now but after these two days I hope the umpiring gets better. I know it’s tough but today, and yesterday they made some wrong decisions. And that referral on Burns’ run for his century, he was in by a country mile and it wasn’t even close yet it was referred by the umpire. Crazy. Some umpires are very, very good but some are mediocre. Or, should I give them the benefit of the doubt in that they’ve just had a bad couple of days? Which is it?🤔
Seeing a lot of Championship cricket I really do see better umpires on the county circuit than I’ve witnessed over the past two days.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 3, 2019 17:58:08 GMT
Well, a good day for England ending their innings 90 ahead and then Australia losing their top 3 batters and being in front by 34.
We have to break up the Smith and Head partnership and we could be on our way to victory, all to play for.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 20:46:22 GMT
Get Smith, win the match.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 4, 2019 12:22:34 GMT
Get Smith, win the match. Yeah that's not working out so well right now.... |
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 4, 2019 13:07:19 GMT
Get Smith, win the match. Yeah that's not working out so well right now.... We do not look like getting him out, nor do our bowlers look like they believe they can get him out. Even the Captain is setting unorthodox fields from ball one. I think the bowlers who couldn't get him out in Australia are carrying a bit of baggage. If he's fit archer is a certainly for the next test and I think, with reluctance, leach should come in for moeen. We could do with Stokes or Root having a similar type of series too! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 18:58:58 GMT
Yeah that's not working out so well right now.... We do not look like getting him out, nor do our bowlers look like they believe they can get him out. Even the Captain is setting unorthodox fields from ball one. I think the bowlers who couldn't get him out in Australia are carrying a bit of baggage. If he's fit archer is a certainly for the next test and I think, with reluctance, leach should come in for moeen. We could do with Stokes or Root having a similar type of series too! Root’s captaincy is being exposed here, I just don’t think he’s a strong enough character. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 4, 2019 21:11:11 GMT
Get Smith, win the match. Well we got him. But it was 97 runs later. |
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Aug 4, 2019 21:17:52 GMT
Although a bad day it was important to survive the last 7 overs which they did. Well after comparing the two teams in the hype leading up to this match it’s all gone a bit upside down. Lots of pundits, me included, thought the Aussie top order was better than ours but that our middle order was better than theirs. On the evidence so far their middle order today outperformed our middle order from the first innings. If we bat like the first innings, unexcitingly and at about 2 and a half per over we should be ok.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Aug 4, 2019 21:53:37 GMT
Hey, it's only 4.27 runs per over and if we get anywhere near to winning it will be a record chase and a miracle.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 4, 2019 22:19:37 GMT
Hey, it's only 4.27 runs per over and if we get anywhere near to winning it will be a record chase and a miracle. I very much doubt that will be in England's mind. I'm pretty sure we're just focused on getting out of here with a draw at this stage. I can't say us being able to score at a competitive rate against Lyon. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 9:14:44 GMT
Hey, it's only 4.27 runs per over and if we get anywhere near to winning it will be a record chase and a miracle. I very much doubt that will be in England's mind. I'm pretty sure we're just focused on getting out of here with a draw at this stage. I can't say us being able to score at a competitive rate against Lyon. See, I'm quite excited to see us try and hit him out the attack then being 64/6. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 12:02:32 GMT
I very much doubt that will be in England's mind. I'm pretty sure we're just focused on getting out of here with a draw at this stage. I can't say us being able to score at a competitive rate against Lyon. See, I'm quite excited to see us try and hit him out the attack then being 64/6. Not miles off really. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 5, 2019 12:36:51 GMT
See, I'm quite excited to see us try and hit him out the attack then being 64/6. Not miles off really. Roy was kamikaze but the rest were pretty good balls really. Lyon looking too good for us on this. A couple of our lower middle order will now have to play uncharacteristically gritty innings to save this and I don't really see it happening. |
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Aug 5, 2019 12:45:12 GMT
Well that was all very predictable. Hopefully my obituary is premature and Buttler and Stokes can dig us out of a huge hole!
The pitch hasn't done England any favours. We always struggle on slow wickets and that is what this one turned into after 3pm on day 1. We don't have the pace in our bowling attack to create chances, we don't score enough runs to create scoreboard pressure and Moeen has demonstrated again that he is better when he is supported by another spinner (I'd forgotten that Rashid played all last summer).
We are going to find it very difficult to win 3 test matches from here.
Leach for Moeen is an obvious change. In the past we have brought in a second spinner when Mo has been struggling with the ball and he has kept his place because of his ability with the bat. That clearly can't happen this time. It's a shame because I think Moeen at his best is a better bowler than Leach. He gets more spin on the ball and more dip and drift. Leach is steadier and has experience of playing on turning tracks with the weight of expectation on his shoulders, but I haven't seen the level of consistency from him yet that I think he will need to really thrive at the highest level.
Bairstow's place must be up for discussion too given that we have an obvious replacement in Foakes. Two things work for Bairstow. The first is that Counties are playing T20 cricket. It would be a big ask to throw Foakes in given a lack of red ball practice. I also think the management owe Bairstow a bit. I was an advocate of Bairstow moving up the order but his loss of form has coincided with him being shunted around the batting order. I think I got that wrong. Unless the selectors feel that he is mentally shot (and his keeping has stood up so I think that is probably not an issue) I would keep him in the side for now.
Archer for Anderson is a no-brainer assuming he comes through the second team game for Sussex.
Roy's dismissal today was predictable and he will be lambasted, but I think it's expected given his background. You have to hope he can transcend the questionable coaching set up and actually develop his game over the next 10 tests or so. No one expected him to be the finished article, but he is a huge talent so let's see if he can learn from his mistake.
I would be in favour of picking Crawley or Sibley instead of Denley, who is older than Roy and Burns and so less likely to improve with game time. I would then move Roy down the order to 4 where he seems more suited at the moment.
Longer term, the proliferation of batters who have come in to the side as good County players in good form, who start reasonably well, only to lose form and confidence within the space of 5 tests, before returning to County cricket and seem diminished has to be looked at. You want players to improve in the test environment. Even if they aren't quite good enough for test cricket, why have so many come in to the side at the top of the batting averages only to return to county cricket and look mediocre? Is the coaching set up right?
We really need Root to rediscover his form too. Of the "golden four" his record is now comfortably the worst in test cricket. My view is that, now Cook has retired, he is too important to England to be captain. His form seems to be suffering and he is not leading a team that is more than the sum of it's parts. I am not advocating a change at this stage but I feel that after this series, it might be in the best interests of the team. Buttler is the man I would look to (bowled the second I submitted this). He is not our best player, and if he has a poor series his place could be under threat, but he seems to have the right demeanor, they say he has a good tactical brain and he is probably one of the best 6 batters in the Country. The captain doesn't always have to be your best player.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 13:25:41 GMT
No fight.
I'd make a lot of changes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 14:15:05 GMT
Well, that was predictably s**te.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Aug 5, 2019 14:44:15 GMT
Well that was all very predictable. Hopefully my obituary is premature and Buttler and Stokes can dig us out of a huge hole! The pitch hasn't done England any favours. We always struggle on slow wickets and that is what this one turned into after 3pm on day 1. We don't have the pace in our bowling attack to create chances, we don't score enough runs to create scoreboard pressure and Moeen has demonstrated again that he is better when he is supported by another spinner (I'd forgotten that Rashid played all last summer). We are going to find it very difficult to win 3 test matches from here. Leach for Moeen is an obvious change. In the past we have brought in a second spinner when Mo has been struggling with the ball and he has kept his place because of his ability with the bat. That clearly can't happen this time. It's a shame because I think Moeen at his best is a better bowler than Leach. He gets more spin on the ball and more dip and drift. Leach is steadier and has experience of playing on turning tracks with the weight of expectation on his shoulders, but I haven't seen the level of consistency from him yet that I think he will need to really thrive at the highest level. Bairstow's place must be up for discussion too given that we have an obvious replacement in Foakes. Two things work for Bairstow. The first is that Counties are playing T20 cricket. It would be a big ask to throw Foakes in given a lack of red ball practice. I also think the management owe Bairstow a bit. I was an advocate of Bairstow moving up the order but his loss of form has coincided with him being shunted around the batting order. I think I got that wrong. Unless the selectors feel that he is mentally shot (and his keeping has stood up so I think that is probably not an issue) I would keep him in the side for now. Archer for Anderson is a no-brainer assuming he comes through the second team game for Sussex. Roy's dismissal today was predictable and he will be lambasted, but I think it's expected given his background. You have to hope he can transcend the questionable coaching set up and actually develop his game over the next 10 tests or so. No one expected him to be the finished article, but he is a huge talent so let's see if he can learn from his mistake. I would be in favour of picking Crawley or Sibley instead of Denley, who is older than Roy and Burns and so less likely to improve with game time. I would then move Roy down the order to 4 where he seems more suited at the moment. Longer term, the proliferation of batters who have come in to the side as good County players in good form, who start reasonably well, only to lose form and confidence within the space of 5 tests, before returning to County cricket and seem diminished has to be looked at. You want players to improve in the test environment. Even if they aren't quite good enough for test cricket, why have so many come in to the side at the top of the batting averages only to return to county cricket and look mediocre? Is the coaching set up right? We really need Root to rediscover his form too. Of the "golden four" his record is now comfortably the worst in test cricket. My view is that, now Cook has retired, he is too important to England to be captain. His form seems to be suffering and he is not leading a team that is more than the sum of it's parts. I am not advocating a change at this stage but I feel that after this series, it might be in the best interests of the team. Buttler is the man I would look to (bowled the second I submitted this). He is not our best player, and if he has a poor series his place could be under threat, but he seems to have the right demeanor, they say he has a good tactical brain and he is probably one of the best 6 batters in the Country. The captain doesn't always have to be your best player. We lost it when we let Peter Siddle knock 40 odd in the first innings. From then on the Aussies had a spring in their step. We should have had a 200+ first innings lead - you can't afford to blow chances like that. When the Aussies had us on the ropes they kept us there. It made it a good competitive test match but one in which the Aussies emerge stronger and we come out of it looking like damaged goods. We will have to go some to wrestle back that momentum of them I think. It's an uphill struggle from here. Credit where it's due though - the best 2 performers in the game (Smith and Lyon) won the Test Match and that is how it should be. Smith's performance is a redemption story for the ages and he was something else. If we don't find some way of getting to him then he will dominate us as badly as he did in Aus last time around.
Quite glad the 'fortress Edgbaston' gubbins bubble has been punctured. It's a daft concept really and if England really do think that they have some kind of secret advantage playing in Birmingham compared with other English grounds then they need to have their professionalism questioned. You hear it from Swann and Vaughan all the time on TMS and it reminds you that no matter how many layers of coaching, support and preparation work you put in and no matter how talented they are cricketers as a species (and at all levels) remain the most ridiculously superstitious sportsmen normally to their own detriment! I do think we are in trouble going to Lords though - our record there is bad and it's not because of some obtuse nonsense about 'atmosphere' or 'the feeling you get when you drive into through the gate' (spare me!), it's just (as you say) Lords doesn't suit us because since they relaed a decade or so ago its become flat and slow. Archer must play in that one.
Despite tempations we really can't make wholesale changes now though. You have to back the squad you've gone with at this point I think. So apart from Archer it would just be Leach for Moen I think. The bottom line is our main issue for a while now has been failing to get big enough first innings scores. I can't see any set of changes which is going to address that so I can't really see the point of wholesale changes.
I take your point on players regressing rather than pushing on. I think it's a vicious cycle that comes with having such an unsettled batting order. No one feels particularly comfortable. Bairstow looks to me like a man who needs a rest - he has played a hell of a lot of cricket and I think he might be a bit mentally shot. I can't see England dropping him though - he's clearly seen as a key man.
Hats off to the Aussies - their bowling was excellent all game. We have to match that level if we don't this series will drift away from us very quicky.
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