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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 16, 2020 10:58:59 GMT
My normal (debatable) reaction would be: Bulls*it. Again. However the public statement from Martyn Starnes gives it more credence. "If" this does not happen - that would leave Martyn with zero credibility in my books. I am actually leaning towards the Fruit Bowl happening. Whether it is ever going to deliver sustainability with non-match day revenue is the really "tricky" bit... but that's not my problem. Good luck Wael. I'm not sure that, as Rovers fans, we have a very good handle on what 'happening' means in this intance anymore. To most people I think 'happening' = stadium getting built. Having done through years of this stuff I think most of us now think 'happening = the start of yet another long and tedious process that will probably lead to very little'.
I've been a big fans of Sam Frost's coverage of all of this - some actual journalism for once from the Post. But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that even in this is true then it sounds tremendously complicated and full of potential pitfalls that could kibosh the whole thing. although it's just possible that, this time, much of the work has been done prior to things becoming public and I agree that Frosty seems sensible and plausible about this, and generally too. From what I've heard on the radio I believe that 20p knows a lot more about what has happened than he's allowed to say too
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Teigngas
Steve White
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Post by Teigngas on Jun 16, 2020 12:17:25 GMT
I`m not attempting to be a smartarse here but why is everyone getting their hopes up about this? I would not consider myself to be a cynic - I was still believing in UWE some time after the first doubts were aired on here, I allowed myself to be quietly excited about Severnside and every other plan we have announced in my over 50 years supporting Rovers.
But this time - no. Why is this any different - am I missing something being away from Bristol? We appear to have the usual rumours and a comment by Martin Starnes and here we go again.
As I say, I am not trying to be contrary, but I just don`t get it?
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 16, 2020 12:26:57 GMT
I`m not attempting to be a smartarse here but why is everyone getting their hopes up about this? I would not consider myself to be a cynic - I was still believing in UWE some time after the first doubts were aired on here, I allowed myself to be quietly excited about Severnside and every other plan we have announced in my over 50 years supporting Rovers. But this time - no. Why is this any different - am I missing something being away from Bristol? We appear to have the usual rumours and a comment by Martin Starnes and here we go again. As I say, I am not trying to be contrary, but I just don`t get it? I think because cash is being spent finally (which came as a complete surprise, so the hope is that we're in for another nice one), and there are background hints from the Post and Starnes but we will still believe it when we are sat in it
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Teigngas
Steve White
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 265
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Post by Teigngas on Jun 16, 2020 12:39:39 GMT
I`m not attempting to be a smartarse here but why is everyone getting their hopes up about this? I would not consider myself to be a cynic - I was still believing in UWE some time after the first doubts were aired on here, I allowed myself to be quietly excited about Severnside and every other plan we have announced in my over 50 years supporting Rovers. But this time - no. Why is this any different - am I missing something being away from Bristol? We appear to have the usual rumours and a comment by Martin Starnes and here we go again. As I say, I am not trying to be contrary, but I just don`t get it? I think because cash is being spent finally (which came as a complete surprise, so the hope is that we're in for another nice one), and there are background hints from the Post and Starnes but we will still believe it when we are sat in it Fair enough re The Colony I guess. I`m still not convinced the pictures aren`t all photoshops though.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 16, 2020 14:26:53 GMT
OK - How about "happening" as in "moving towards our eventual goal of a new stadium with the speed of an asthmatic ant with a very heavy bag of shopping"? But we might be moving.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 16, 2020 14:28:43 GMT
I think because cash is being spent finally (which came as a complete surprise, so the hope is that we're in for another nice one), and there are background hints from the Post and Starnes but we will still believe it when we are sat in it Fair enough re The Colony I guess. I`m still not convinced the pictures aren`t all photoshops though. 'kin 'ell - that's even more cynical than me! Fair play to you Sir.
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Post by rowdenhill on Jun 16, 2020 17:28:09 GMT
With the reincorporation of the Farleigh Hungerford salient Wiltshire would be the largest inland county in England.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 17:49:37 GMT
With the reincorporation of the Farleigh Hungerford salient Wiltshire would be the largest inland county in England. Obtuse?
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Post by tauntongas on Jun 16, 2020 18:18:08 GMT
I`m not attempting to be a smartarse here but why is everyone getting their hopes up about this? Because getting hyped about new stadiums is often the only part of the process we've ever been able to enjoy.
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Post by matealotblue on Jun 16, 2020 19:03:18 GMT
With the reincorporation of the Farleigh Hungerford salient Wiltshire would be the largest inland county in England. Obtuse? Well, that’s one angle....
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Post by lostinspace on Jun 16, 2020 19:39:03 GMT
Well, that’s one angle.... thats acute way of looking at it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 20:34:28 GMT
Well, that’s one angle.... thats acute way of looking at it I don't know, it's all a bit square, on the hypotenuse.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
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Post by eppinggas on Jun 16, 2020 20:40:16 GMT
With the reincorporation of the Farleigh Hungerford salient Wiltshire would be the largest inland county in England. Well that's certainly a sentence I've never come across before.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 17, 2020 11:15:43 GMT
With the reincorporation of the Farleigh Hungerford salient Wiltshire would be the largest inland county in England. Well that's certainly a sentence I've never come across before. Congratulations are in order I think. After decades or wrangling and pages and pages of internet forum debate it's very rare for someone to come up with a new perspective on the Rovers stadium situation. The impact of the re-drawing of County boundaries on this had certainly never occurred to me before. It really cuts through the fog and tedium.
Maybe it's a new code for the hidden agenda.......
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 21, 2020 11:15:25 GMT
from the Post today....
But there is a different air around Rovers now. The pollution of negativity has waned with many supporters admitting they’ve gorged on a slice or two of humble pie this weekend after being stunned by Friday’s announcement.....
Speculation is rife on social media that something is imminent, but Bristol Live understands that not to be the case, though the outlook is a lot brighter than it has been for several years.....
The club appears well placed to grow and improve, and the supporters’ club should join on that journey rather than inhibiting it.
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jun 21, 2020 11:26:22 GMT
from the Post today.... But there is a different air around Rovers now. The pollution of negativity has waned with many supporters admitting they’ve gorged on a slice or two of humble pie this weekend after being stunned by Friday’s announcement..... Speculation is rife on social media that something is imminent, but Bristol Live understands that not to be the case, though the outlook is a lot brighter than it has been for several years..... The club appears well placed to grow and improve, and the supporters’ club should join on that journey rather than inhibiting it. We've been told 'Rovers are involved in a stadium project ,they hope to have positive news in the next few weeks'.
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Post by CabbagePatchBlues on Jun 21, 2020 11:42:10 GMT
If it is the fruit market then it's not just a stadium stuck on a brown site but is part of a large urban regeneration programme. Who wouldn't want a stadium there?
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 22, 2020 15:56:18 GMT
Frosty's comments in Q&A re the stadium today....
Invariably we’re going to be asked the same question, or variations of, so hopefully this helps in going some way to answering the more general queries.
As we reported back in August 2019, the Fruit Market and the acquisition of the land by a UK-consortium/developers/group of investors (however you want to label them) remains on the table and talks – as we’ve consistently reported on here – have progressed and are at a stage where a resolution, one way or another, is in sight.
There has obviously been a lot of chat on social media about figures agreed and announcements imminent – in-part due to Martyn Starnes comments a few weeks ago which got the rumour mill clicking back into gear.
As we see it, the idea that an announcement on the purchase of the land will be made this week seems optimistic. I have it on good authority that a sale of the site has not been completed. There are various legal matters still to be resolved and the idea that the deal is “done” – in a formal business sense – isn’t accurate.
But there is plenty of reason to suggest that more good news is on the horizon, it’s just very difficult to establish exactly when that will be. But, again, we’d be surprised if it’s this week.
Enthusiasm is justified – and, of course, dictated also by other genuinely exciting developments at the club – but probably needs to be tempered ever so slightly with a bit of patience. It's been a busy summer already!
As for what happens after the purchase of the Fruit Market, quite clearly over the last three months there has been a change in position of exactly what, and how much of the club is available to a consortium/investor, and Wael Al-Qadi has put himself into a considerable position of strength.
His commitment has been outlined to remain president/owner of Bristol Rovers, and it’s hard to see that changing. He is a man of his word.
But the business is still losing £3m+ a year – never mind the impact of COVID-19 which is still being felt - and while there has been some really encouraging work behind the scenes in addressing that – wage bill reduction, the recruitment operation, training ground, focus on academy etc - finding a new stadium is paramount.
From the beginning, we have indicated Wael's desire to remain involved in the club even if he were to sell a sizable amount of his shares, so although he now has much more control thanks to his acquisition of a controlling stake in Dwane Sports the landscape is relatively unchanged – other than he has more to bargain with in terms of shares in the club and the lack of debt makes Rovers more valuable.
External investment The Fruit Market, and intended development, does still appear – at least from where we’re standing - the best and more realistic option for the club to have a new stadium over the next 3-5 years.
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Post by a more piratey game on Jun 23, 2020 20:34:01 GMT
this is rather good I think.....
Wael Al-Qadi, Bristol Rovers and the truth regarding the Fruit Market and takeover talks
The president now has a level of control at the club he has long craved, but the need for a new stadium remains
By James Piercy Sports Editor
The last nine months have been a time of great personal tragedy for Wael Al-Qadi with the death in February of his father Abdul Qadar Al Qadi, but also, conversely, professional triumph as he stands today in a stronger position than ever as president of Bristol Rovers.
Having completed the purchase of a majority stake in Dwane Sports, Rovers are unquestionably under his control, with older brother Hani – often acting as a consultary financial regulator for the club with no discernible interest in football – no longer part of the direct decision-making.
That’s been against the departure of Steve Hamer as chairman, and suspension and resignation of Ken Masters as Supporters’ Club representative on the board, and if you’re still in any doubt as to why they left the club, his interview with BBC Points West Sports Editor Alistair Durden essentially revealed why.
When asked the rationale behind the elevation of the immensely-popular Tom Gorringe and Karim Mardam-Bey to the board, Wael Al-Qadi said: "I believe in order for any organisation to be successful you need to surround yourself with the right people; with the most important attribute being people you can trust."
And that lack of trust was also locked in an issue that has lurked in the background of Bristol Rovers Football Club ever since the UWE deal collapsed – the search for a new stadium.
Without going over old ground too much, the need for a new home away from the Mem is paramount in securing the long-term sustainability of the club as £3m+ losses a year, with no sign of progress is draining, not just to one's wallet.
And while plans have been put in place and subsequently actioned to secure an element of sustainability, while the Mem stands in its current form, it's an incomplete project.
Until his departure Hani Al-Qadi, who also stepped down as director of Dwane Developments in March, held a preference for a complete sale of the club with countless speculators, investors and third parties holding loose interest.
Despite football’s troubles and the staggering losses incurred by clubs in England, owning one remains an enticing prospect – for a number of reasons, both practical and romantic - and, for all its faults as an investment opportunity, there has been consistent interest in Rovers.
Around 18 months ago it was established that a consortium, with a background in large-scale commercial and property development, were the most credible bidders out there.
As reported by Bristol Live on August 8, 2019, following Wael Al-Qadi’s pronouncement at Bloomfield Road that the Fruit Market was Rovers’ preferred site, this consortium’s plan was to purchase the 11-acre site before completing a takeover of the club with a stadium then to be built in St Philip's and a residential development in Horfield where the Mem stands.
That was tied in with Hani Al-Qadi’s desire for a sale, due to the financial black holes that needed to be plugged and his own apathy towards football in general; unlike Wael, whose love of the game is what, at base level, maintains his connection.
There had been long-running concerns, however, that Hamer – who was the first point of contact in the early days of talks – and Masters had grown too close to the idea of what Rovers would look like after a takeover, rather than the present status of the club, and that caused obvious friction within the boardroom.
Although the Fruit Market consortium have held exclusivity, other offers have remained in the background; most notably a team of investors featuring former Palermo chairman Clive Richardson, via his business Backroom Partners, who was willing to allow Wael Al-Qadi to retain a stake in the club.
There have been false dawns in the recent history of Bristol Rovers but this time feels different
The Colony project manager gives update as Bristol Rovers' new training ground starts to take shape Rovers’ internal valuation of the club of £13.5m, however, saw Richardson and investors walk away around the turn of the year and Bristol Live understands he is no longer part of any discussions.
There has also been a project involving two prominent Rovers fans and local businessmen who claim to hold land in South Gloucestershire ripe for development, also retaining Wael Al-Qadi's presence at the club, but that offer has never been viewed with any great credibility.
Former Tottenham and Portsmouth manager Harry Redknapp was also reportedly interested as part of an investment group, according to the Sun’s Alan Nixon, but despite being a friend of Wael Al-Qadi, through Jordanian football, there has been no contact with Rovers.
Our Rovers reporter Sam Frost will also keep you up-to-date with all the goings-on at the club @frosty920
In truth, the Fruit Market consortium has always been the only show in town.
However, while talks between them and the various shareholders at the St Philip’s site – most notably Total Produce - have been taking place, Wael Al-Qadi has been successfully, and rather shrewdly manoeuvring himself into a position of power.
Hamer and Masters left within the space of three months and in chief executive Martyn Starnes, Gorringe and Mardam-Bey he has a team he can rely upon.
Even Graham Coughlan’s completely coincidental departure as manager in December, despite the fine job that he did, can be seen as further reinforcing Wael Al-Qadi’s concept for what he wants Rovers to be as a club, and therefore his own position.
Coughlan and head of recruitment Tommy Widdrington’s relationship was not always cordial, as witnessed by the disagreement surrounding UCD defender Liam Scales, as the manager wanted to sign the 21-year-old without anyone else at the club having scouted him.
With Ben Garner’s appointment, Wael Al-Qadi has a coach who’s willing to operate within a sporting director-style model in which responsibilities over recruitment are ceded to Widdrington and his team, but with the manager maintaining a strong say over requirements.
There is a mutual understanding, respect and appreciation of each other’s work that didn’t consistently exist before between departments before, with Widdrington also acting as mentor and sounding board to Garner.
But away from the pitch, as we now know, Wael Al-Qadi has taken control in a more tangible way with the purchase of a majority stake in Dwane Sports, which will have a bearing on what happens next with the Fruit Market.
Starnes’ claim on June 9 that, "hopefully we will be able to announce something positive in the next few weeks", arrived on the back of the development of to-be-renamed Colony, after three years of inactivity of the site at Almondsbury. Understandably leading some fans to believe that the Holy Grail of a new stadium announcement was imminent.
Regarding the Fruit Market, the situation hasn’t changed, and if the site is sold it will be to the original consortium intent on developing that area of Bristol, with the possibility of a football stadium.
Contrary to countless rumours, claims and since-deleted messages on social media, the purchase of that land isn’t finalised, having been locked in legal argument for much of 2020.
Bristol Live understands there is significant progress on the horizon but the idea that an announcement is "soon", is ambitious; albeit, depending on your definition of the word.
The land is still to be mitigated - assessed to determined the extent of any building work that can take place - which is vital given it’s situated so close to the river.
The Fruit Market itself also remains trading, with a need to find alternative premises. That being said, there is precedent with Total Produce having sold land in Birmingham before quickly spending £50m on a new site in 2018.
It’s impossible to pinpoint exactly when a deal will be "done" in the formal business sense but a more realistic timeline would appear August, at the earliest. But, barring any logistical difficulties, the Fruit Market purchase should eventually happen, with or without Rovers on board.
The focus will then shift back onto the Gas and what Wael Al-Qadi’s desires and intentions are regarding the consortium and how much control in the club he’s now willing to surrender in order to secure a new stadium.
It’s clear, and he’s said it himself, he has no intention of sanctioning a full sale. That offer is no longer on the table and probably disappeared when Hani Al-Qadi sold his shares in Dwane Sports.
Having fought so relentlessly, amid considerable criticism from sections of the fanbase over an apparent lack of ambition, and all the exhausting politicking of Hamer and Masters, to almost instantly sell a significant stake could, in some instances, even represent a degree of personal defeat.
To further complicate the situation, there is also the matter of the capitalisation of Rovers’ debt, which while undoubtedly a positive move for the long-term financial health of the club, and restoring faith between fans and owner, may well have raised the value of the club.
After all, a club substantively debt free is worth more than one burdened with considerable liabilities.
Having done so much, during a global pandemic nonetheless and financial crisis throughout professional sport, to develop the infrastructure of the club, a new stadium represents the true realisation of what Wael Al-Qadi has desired since the family purchased the club in 2016.
The drive back up the Football League has always, perhaps a touch unfairly, been attributed solely to the bloody mindedness of Darrell Clarke’s management skills. A new home for the Gas would be the true confirmation of Wael Al-Qadi’s legacy.
The question is, having put himself in such a position of control, how much is he now willing to give up to secure it?
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JeffNZ
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Jimmy Morgan
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Post by JeffNZ on Jun 23, 2020 21:46:10 GMT
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