irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 28, 2017 18:08:09 GMT
You lucky sod! Sounds like the best day of the series to attend so far from an Englishman's perspective. I hope we can push on tomorrow and score 500 and at the very least ensure we avoid the whitewash. Fear not, there's still plenty of time for us to capitulate to 250 all out... Was a great day though. Nearly welled up when Cook got his ton at the end. Good of Steve Smith to gift it to him with his last over buffet mind you! Glad you enjoyed it. Epic stuff from Cook has put paid rather quickly to the career obituaries that were starting to come out - made a few people look really silly in fact. You'd like to think that's done for the whitewash and, in theory, we should be in a strong position to finally put a win on the board here.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Dec 30, 2017 16:02:29 GMT
Oh well at least it won't be a whitewash - Steve Smith really has done something special in this series.
By the way - did anyone hear George Dobell on the writers thing they on TMS? My goodness - made Geoffrey Boycott sound like a ray sunshine. Cheer the hell up man - it was embarrassing.
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Captain Jayho
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 2, 2018 7:40:33 GMT
Yes that was a really impressive performance all round. Shame we couldn't get the win but that really was a road of a wicket. I did call it (the wicket) before the match started - although the groundsman's attempts to spice the it up seem to have been in vain. Maybe he should have followed the WACA groundsman's lead and let some rain leak onto it.
I take my hat off to the team because I had them pegged for a whitewash and they proved me wrong with a gritty performance there. Hopefully we can crack on in Sydney.
And yes, we are witnessing something pretty incredible with Steve Smith this series. It's incredible because his technique is so utterly horrible. But he just has an amazing eye and can play anything that comes his way without footwork and even when he's completely squared up. School teacher's nightmare!
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jan 2, 2018 13:15:37 GMT
Oh well at least it won't be a whitewash - Steve Smith really has done something special in this series.
By the way - did anyone hear George Dobell on the writers thing they on TMS? My goodness - made Geoffrey Boycott sound like a ray sunshine. Cheer the hell up man - it was embarrassing. Yeah I heard it. He was pretty miserable wasn't he! In general though, I think he is one of the better, more knowledgeable cricket writers. His pieces on the First Class game are usually spot-on.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 2, 2018 22:11:08 GMT
Oh well at least it won't be a whitewash - Steve Smith really has done something special in this series.
By the way - did anyone hear George Dobell on the writers thing they on TMS? My goodness - made Geoffrey Boycott sound like a ray sunshine. Cheer the hell up man - it was embarrassing. Yeah I heard it. He was pretty miserable wasn't he! In general though, I think he is one of the better, more knowledgeable cricket writers. His pieces on the First Class game are usually spot-on. Yeah he's normally fine but he'd clearly gotten out of bed the wrong side that morning - it was comical.
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Captain Jayho
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 7, 2018 10:45:26 GMT
Well this is ending with a whimper. Good on Mason Crane for almost getting a double ton though!
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 7, 2018 13:02:09 GMT
I watched the first hour last night but that was all. Looks poor insofar as we’ve been shown to be second best in the batting, in the bowling and in the captaincy. The batting was the best we have at the moment but why oh why does James Vince appear not to learn, the guys got a lot of talent but gets out to poor shots so often. Let’s hope Joe Root can rescue some individual glory with a good score tomorrow. At times we’ve looked good but we just havent turned 30s 40s and 50s into bigger scores and it hasn’t allowed us to put Australia under real pressure. And with Steve Smith leading from the front the Australian batsmen, who I don’t think are any betterthan us, have grown into the series and scored runs. Bowling, sorry but listening to everyone say what a wonderful action Mason Crane has is really scraping the barrel, he doesn’t take wickets and tbh he doesn’t really take many wickets in England so why they thought he would in Australia I don’t know. But I’m not the best person to judge him here, as a Somerset member I always thought Leach the bowler in form who does take wickets should have gone instead of Crane. But Crane is young and given time he may come good but in the test arena a bowler needs to be able to take wickets not just have influential friends. Saw Crane bowl on 5 days of red ball cricket last summer and he looked threatening for one and a half days, he will get better but he needs to bowl not just be in a squad. With Moeen Ali certain to play Crane was never going to get much practice or play unless they picked two spinners which was always unlikely. I’m sure the ECB will put some spin into making positive points from the tour which I don’t blame them for because there are some plus points and perhaps we need to accept that Steve Smith is the best at what he does and to an extent you can’t always do much about that. Roll on the summer!
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Captain Jayho
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 8, 2018 5:40:03 GMT
Well thank god that is over. We can go again in a few years on our own patch. Something to look forward to as their batting is not all that - although their bowling should stand up pretty well in English conditions. Warner and Smith aside their batsmen will get well and truly found out in England - unless one of our counties decides to give them some batting practice for a season before the next series of course... Bancroft, Khawaja, Marsh1 and Marsh2 I'm talking about you.
I do feel a bit sorry for Mason Crane, he's only 20 of course and bowling leg spin is probably the hardest art to master. I may be a little biased as I bowled leg spin throughout my school career of course! However he was picked because he knows the SCG and lets face it they were pretty damn good conditions for spin bowling so he had every chance to prove himself. He was a little unlucky but the hoo-ha about him was ridiculously over the top. I hope he has a top career ahead of him but it's way too early to make any sort of assertion based on one game. That said, it's always interesting when a leggie comes on to bowl - runs or wickets or both. When I got tossed the ball my first move every time was to set a deep square leg so you can imagine how good I was at landing them in the right spot consistently!
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jan 8, 2018 11:03:34 GMT
Well thank god that is over. We can go again in a few years on our own patch. Something to look forward to as their batting is not all that - although their bowling should stand up pretty well in English conditions. Warner and Smith aside their batsmen will get well and truly found out in England - unless one of our counties decides to give them some batting practice for a season before the next series of course... Bancroft, Khawaja, Marsh1 and Marsh2 I'm talking about you. This has already happened hasn't it? Bancroft has signed for Somerset, Shaun Marsh for Glamorgan, Mitchell Marsh for Surrey. I am sure Handscomb will be back over here too. I know Crane didn't do anything for Hampshire last season but he did well playing grade and state cricket in Australia last year. A 20 year old leg spinner playing most of his cricket in April, May and September is always going to struggle to make an impact. If we want to develop spinners, and genuine quick bowlers for that matter, we have to produce more pitches like Taunton and play more red ball cricket in the high season. Crane clearly has a good temperament and I really don't see that County cricket has that much to offer him. We might as well chuck him in to the test team and let him learn his game from there hadn't we? If Stokes is back and Woakes holds his place then I see no reason why we couldn't pick 6 bowlers for now. We could move Root, Malan or even the experienced number 3 Moeen Ali up to 3 and still have Woakes coming in at number 8. I think the worry for the series in two years time is that Anderson may well have retired and Broad looks like he is declining at the moment to the extent that I am not sure he is an automatic pick. We have not got a lot coming through behind them, even in English conditions.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 8, 2018 14:05:20 GMT
Don’t disagree with what either of you have posted. We’re always going to be a bit negative after a 0-4 ashes defeat. My prediction of close matches was pretty wide of the mark. If the matches had been 3 day matches I might have been able to big myself up but on days 4 and 5 we usually got blown away which was a result of our batsmen not scoring big and our bowlers not having too much of a target to bowl at. Crane needs to go away and bowl and bowl and bowl. Whether Southampton or other grounds will encourage him is a different matter but as a leg spinner he has plenty of time, I hope he and Hampshire have plenty of patience because that is what you will need as a young spinner. He will not come into his prime until his late 20s/ Early 30s, a long way away. I’m not as pessimistic as you jack about the bowling. I remember Anderson coming into the team and thinking he might struggle but he learnt his craft and developed superbly. Jake Ball, both Overtons, and I think Jamie is fast and could open for England, injuries permitting, Roland-Jones, Wood, even Finn and perhaps a few others give me a lot of confidence that our system in England is capable of producing good fast bowlers. Whether they are fast enough is another matter. In English cricket the wear and tear is so much more than Australian cricket. The season here from March to September now is unrelenting and part of the reason why Somerset have to “manage” Jamie and Craig O. The faster you are the more prone you are to injuries and strains. The pitches here make swing, seam and controlled bowling more effective, hence the bowlers we produce. Australian pitches show our bowlers up in a way but tbh at other times they do well. Clearly there will be a post mortom of sorts about the Ashes but I hope it doesn’t go too extreme and that the plus points can be recognised and built on. I also hope that we recognise that Steve Smith is a fine batsman and has developed into a good captain and that his overall play was a big reason for the Aussies winning and in a way there’s no shame in that.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 8, 2018 14:24:06 GMT
Wanted to keep this post separate but it is ashes related. Why is Ben Stokes now included in the England squad for the one day and 20/20 matches? What has happened, what developments have there been with the police and CPS investigation that makes him available for this series and not the test matches? Something must have changed. If nothing has changed then he should have been available for the test matches. This situation is akin to the ECB shooting English cricket in the foot. Whether BS would have made a real difference we will never know but the negative build up to the series and losing a genuine top cricketer, possibly the best all rounder in the game presently, really cost us. Australia were afraid of him and they must have been laughing at what our leaders did. Now, whether you agree with him not playing in the ashes or not my point is what has changed now. If it were morally correct to stop him from playing in the ashes then it would be morally right for him not to play in the one day stuff because nothing has changed as far as I know. If he can play in the one day matches then he should have been chosen in red ball cricket. We seem to have an awful lot of people making some poor decisions full of confusion. I do not support in any way what BS is alleged to have done and am genuinely confused over this matter. It all smacks of the ECB trying to be some moral arbiter rather than a body responsible for English cricket. Genuinely interested in other people’s views.
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jackthegas
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Post by jackthegas on Jan 8, 2018 15:30:19 GMT
Wanted to keep this post separate but it is ashes related. Why is Ben Stokes now included in the England squad for the one day and 20/20 matches? What has happened, what developments have there been with the police and CPS investigation that makes him available for this series and not the test matches? Something must have changed. If nothing has changed then he should have been available for the test matches. This situation is akin to the ECB shooting English cricket in the foot. Whether BS would have made a real difference we will never know but the negative build up to the series and losing a genuine top cricketer, possibly the best all rounder in the game presently, really cost us. Australia were afraid of him and they must have been laughing at what our leaders did. Now, whether you agree with him not playing in the ashes or not my point is what has changed now. If it were morally correct to stop him from playing in the ashes then it would be morally right for him not to play in the one day stuff because nothing has changed as far as I know. If he can play in the one day matches then he should have been chosen in red ball cricket. We seem to have an awful lot of people making some poor decisions full of confusion. I do not support in any way what BS is alleged to have done and am genuinely confused over this matter. It all smacks of the ECB trying to be some moral arbiter rather than a body responsible for English cricket. Genuinely interested in other people’s views. It's a legal box ticking exercise by the ECBs lawyers. He will be withdrawn before the series starts, unless the CPS have concluded it's case. I suspect he will end up playing in the IPL though.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 8, 2018 16:07:33 GMT
I don’t doubt that you’re right about it being a legal tick box exercise, but doubt he will be withdrawn before the series starts having just been added. And that’s my point why has he been added this past week? What’s changed? Perhaps the CPS have concluded their case. And of course he will play in the IPL. Ultimately does this tell you all you need to know about where test cricket ranks in the ECB list of priorities?
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Captain Jayho
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 9, 2018 10:31:27 GMT
Well thank god that is over. We can go again in a few years on our own patch. Something to look forward to as their batting is not all that - although their bowling should stand up pretty well in English conditions. Warner and Smith aside their batsmen will get well and truly found out in England - unless one of our counties decides to give them some batting practice for a season before the next series of course... Bancroft, Khawaja, Marsh1 and Marsh2 I'm talking about you. This has already happened hasn't it? Bancroft has signed for Somerset, Shaun Marsh for Glamorgan, Mitchell Marsh for Surrey. I am sure Handscomb will be back over here too. I don't follow county cricket at all any more (being overseas) but this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Great chance to get the Aussies up to speed with our conditions before they come over to play us. Terrific. Can't wait for Victoria to offer one of our front line players a spot in their state team in season 2020 so they can play themselves in before the next Ashes tour over here. Oh hang on, actually didn't Stuart Broad get to play for Werribee 2nd XI when he was about 16 or something? And now Mason's been plying his trade with a few throw downs in the nets at the SCG. Nothing to see here then! Rant over...
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 9, 2018 14:49:18 GMT
Wanted to keep this post separate but it is ashes related. Why is Ben Stokes now included in the England squad for the one day and 20/20 matches? What has happened, what developments have there been with the police and CPS investigation that makes him available for this series and not the test matches? Something must have changed. If nothing has changed then he should have been available for the test matches. This situation is akin to the ECB shooting English cricket in the foot. Whether BS would have made a real difference we will never know but the negative build up to the series and losing a genuine top cricketer, possibly the best all rounder in the game presently, really cost us. Australia were afraid of him and they must have been laughing at what our leaders did. Now, whether you agree with him not playing in the ashes or not my point is what has changed now. If it were morally correct to stop him from playing in the ashes then it would be morally right for him not to play in the one day stuff because nothing has changed as far as I know. If he can play in the one day matches then he should have been chosen in red ball cricket. We seem to have an awful lot of people making some poor decisions full of confusion. I do not support in any way what BS is alleged to have done and am genuinely confused over this matter. It all smacks of the ECB trying to be some moral arbiter rather than a body responsible for English cricket. Genuinely interested in other people’s views. The problem is that it would have looked awful for English cricket if the ECB had picked him and then the CPS had prosecuted him and they would have been forced to send him home and probably sack him from the central contract. I think they were in an impossible position and I don't really think they had any choice. I agree with Jack - I think it's pretty unlikely he'll actually play in the One Day or T20 games. I find it highly unlikely, looking at the evidence that is out there, that he won't face some kind of prosecution as well so it could be a while until we see him in an England shirt again I think. I'm not personally all that convinced he'd have made that big a difference in this series to be honest. The main issue was their bowling attack overmatching our batsmen time and again - I've seen nothing from Stokes that suggests he'd have dealt with it any better really. He'd have been useful with the ball but would he have been the guy to get Smith out regularly? I saw a good portion of the 4th Day in the last test - wished I hadn't bothered. Worst type of Test Cricket imaginable. No tension at all - free runs for Aussie batsmen for as long as they wanted them. I think we folded in the end really. Interesting to see if we can raise ourselves to bounce back in the 2 tests in New Zealand in March. They are a decent team right now. At least conditions will favour our bowling attack a bit more.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 10, 2018 9:47:20 GMT
If they had no choice other than to ban him from the ashes, and I understand why, my question remains, why add him to the white-ball squads in the past week because nothing has changed since the original decision. I think he would have made a difference perhaps not an Ashes-winning big difference but one that would have resulted in England performing better and competing with the Aussies in more ways. We will never know now and Stokes lost the opportunity to play the ashes at his peak. In Australia in four years he will be perhaps past his peak. All in all very sad and I hope younger players can learn from it.
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Captain Jayho
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Post by Captain Jayho on Jan 12, 2018 7:48:34 GMT
On an amusing and slightly related note Sachin Tendulkar's son is playing over in Sydney for India young'uns at the moment. Plenty of press there as you can imagine and he took 4 wickets with his pace bowling and opened the batting with 48 runs. Decent. Entertainingly when he was interviewed he cited playing for the team and doing your best as key qualities Sachin had instilled in him and when asked who his role models were he said Mitchell Starc and Ben Stokes! I kid you not!
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 12, 2018 14:39:16 GMT
On an amusing and slightly related note Sachin Tendulkar's son is playing over in Sydney for India young'uns at the moment. Plenty of press there as you can imagine and he took 4 wickets with his pace bowling and opened the batting with 48 runs. Decent. Entertainingly when he was interviewed he cited playing for the team and doing your best as key qualities Sachin had instilled in him and when asked who his role models were he said Mitchell Starc and Ben Stokes! I kid you not! Poor chap - you have to feel a bit sorry for him. Never going to be properly allowed to succeed on his own terms - a lot of Indian fans think he's only in there for the marketing value etc.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jan 15, 2018 15:22:36 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41798404
There we go - don't think we'll be seeing him in an England shirt for sometime and a very real possibility of significant jail time I believe. What a waste honestly.
In the meantime England prove they are still very good at the One Day game (possibly better than this current Aussie ODI team). It's amazing really - watching Moen Ali bowl and field was like watching a different player. Same went for a few others. Like the weight had been lifted from their shoulders and there was a natural confidence to the side that our Test team seemed to completely lack from ball 1 of the Ashes. Strange game sometimes.
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warehamgas
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Post by warehamgas on Jan 15, 2018 23:29:29 GMT
Yes, at last. I guess this will mean more bad publicity for cricket whenever it comes to court. Silly man, may have to pay a high price for a moment of idiocy. I think a heavy fine, suspended sentence but time will tell. The one day win was as you say, a completely different story. It would have been easy perhaps or understandable if once Australia had posted 300 England had been beaten but the way the batsmen responded was remarkable. I know they had a few players who hadn’t been in the Ashes such as Roy and Morgan but the change in Moeen Ali and even Joe Root was strange. Looked like a case where they took a different mindset onto the pitch. Let’s hope they can keep it up.
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