kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 14, 2014 9:55:57 GMT
Leaving aside Sainsbury deciding what is best for them - and that is the only decision that matters in the matter of your stadium (and that of Southend United) - I have to say that viewed from a long way away (and with no background knowledge) a 22,000 seater stadium on the face of it appears to be peas rattling around in a very large pod. There's no reason why you can't get back in the FL quickly but it's a fact that even with new or newish stadiums corporate money has dropped like a stone over the last few years along with the usual national economic problems. Just as a percentage of your supporters will be averse to Conference football I think there is a risk that some local businesses will take the same attitude. I run a fairly successful business but I can't immediately think of a reason for buying a hospitality box (as but one example) for League One never mind the conference. You take potential clients to Colchester v Oldham or Bristol Rovers v Alfreton? Don't think so if you are trying to clinch a deal. An evening at La Talbooth, Dedham, or the Angel at Stoke by Nayland perhaps but not a bleedin' lower league football match or not if you want to get the contract anyway. Just a personal opinion having never understood the commercial reality of new stadium/lower league football expectations. I cannot think of any new/recent/modern stadium in lower league football that has, or is, currently assisting a football club by funding their rise up the leagues. It may help them from going bust for the time being but I cannot see it as a major money player in itself. That may be my ignorance but I certainly doubt that a new stadium will help with results and if they don't come I suspect the stadium fades into insignificance. You only have to look at the leagues and most teams that have built new ground etc have gone through up and most teams in the lower league have older dated facilities. Investors will look at the potential of a club and at the mem the highest we could ever be realistically if league one. Also money will be coming in from the Gym, Creche, uni bar etc and we have investors who are interested in investing once the stadium is built. A new stadium guarantees nothing, however, it at least creates potential. Even if we built a good team at the mem, we would sell them and lose the manager. For any chance of long term success we need this. We have lost 3 highly rated youth players in the last year to teams with better facilities, 4 including Santos. Bristol has a massive catchment area and investors should be able to see the potential. No one would ever invest while we are at the mem though, unless they were a die hard gashead. Dan, We are told there are potential investors when it is built but this is told us by the same people who find lying to us with consumate ease, the norm. Personally I take everything said with a huge pinch of salt. I don't doubt Nick Higgs good intent but I doubt his experience and expertise. There have obviously been some big mistakes made with the stadium and I will wait to see how it pans out before I cast aspersions on who is at fault. It seems NH was sure that there was nothing to stop is going ahead once the photographer was dealt with. My guess is that this is Sainsbury's now using brinkmanship to try to get the price down. If this is the case and if we manage to get them to keep to the arranged price then I will applaud Higgsy. The quietness of everyone concerned leads me to believe that we are in a very bad place right now.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,236
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 14, 2014 10:01:04 GMT
I think you are well wide of the Mark Dave, I am pretty sure UWE are very keen on the stadium as it will give them kudos of having it and the use of it's facilities. The UWE is run extremely well and it's students who pass are now taken much more seriously. Remember this used to be Bristol Polytrchnic. It was a place where those with poor A level grades,or even fails, used to get placement. They have put a lot of work in getting good tutors, in getting good PR and are definitely going places. They are very ambitious. I think you do them a huge disservice in what you believe. I think we have to wait and see just who has not done their homework here but you can bet it is not the UWE. They are fastidious in how they do things and plan ahead very efficiently The university is tightening it's purse strings, currently it rents the biggest student carparks. Don't get me wrong the kudos that the stadium will bring is a huge positive but a free carpark is a huge positive. Hmmm, I think most are tightening the purse strings but the latest announcements by UWE about future plans and over 200 million of investment lead me to believe that this lot are looking to expand. I have to admit in having no knowledge in how car parks work on a profit basis but it does seem that those that run the UWE are looking to expand at a time when others are making dramatic cuts.
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Cheshiregas
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Post by Cheshiregas on Jul 14, 2014 10:01:06 GMT
.....we have investors who are interested in investing once the stadium is built. Dan, We are told there are potential investors when it is built but this is told us by the same people who find lying to us with consumate ease, the norm. Personally I take everything said with a huge pinch of salt. Indeed I would love to know who these new investors are who will magically appear like the cavalry coming over the hillside.
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kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,236
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Post by kingswood Polak on Jul 14, 2014 10:04:10 GMT
Dan, We are told there are potential investors when it is built but this is told us by the same people who find lying to us with consumate ease, the norm. Personally I take everything said with a huge pinch of salt. Indeed I would love to know who these new investors are who will magically appear like the cavalry coming over the hillside. Exactly. The same goes with the " streams" of revenue that will magically make the ground a success from the off. It's all a bit fantasy island for me
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 14, 2014 10:39:31 GMT
Yes potential and that is it. The club have said they intend to appoint a CEO when it is built. I would say this is a positive, because they at least realise they need someone hands on to look after the running of the stadium and to help attract all the stuff that they hope will generate money
This person though, should be appointed when building commences and doing ground work and promoting the facility ahead of time.
If we are to host ‘money making’ concerts we will have to compete with Ashton Gate, County Ground, and a new Arena sometime in the near future. Aside from that we still don’t know how the club will make money from the other aspects of the ground be it conference facilities, Gym, convenience store etc.
Of course this all relies on everything being completed to spec and being open from Day one also
Then we don’t know where all this overflow of funds is going to end up anyway. There will be debt, will this be cleared as a % of profit, and even if it goes into the club we still have a finance director that can’t seem to budget and comprehend anything beyond the end of his nose. Can anyone see a competent CEO putting up with that?
Lets see what it brings, and if it is build the board as I have said before absolutely deserve the chance and the pressure to push the club forward, because they have made all the big statements and promises about how great it will be
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Post by lulworthgas on Jul 14, 2014 11:16:11 GMT
Been away this weekend and just catching up. Seems to be some confusion about the post in which I said the uwe build will be announced on the morning of the fans forum. I don't pretend to be "in the know" and never have. This was tongue in cheek and all I meant is that the bod could cover up the cracks by announcing build dates then so that they get a free ride at the Q&A! Sorry if I caused confusion!
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Post by Curly Wurly on Jul 14, 2014 12:12:45 GMT
Much as I yearn for the days of "Rag-bag Rovers" punching above our weight in what is now the Championship, it is about time that we realised that the football world has moved on. Like it or not, football at the higher levels is about money and I mean serious investment. From the time that our custodians chose not to continue playing during WW2 and selling Eastville, we have embarked on a bumpy ride which has now dumped us in the Conference. I loved Eastville, but it wasn't ours. I loved Twerton, but it wasn't ours. I like the Mem and although it is now ours, it limits the ability of Bristol Rovers to compete and means that, whilst there is potential from our large catchment, we are not going to attract the investment that we need.
Does building a new stadium guarantee success? Obviously not. Does NOT building a new stadium limit the position we can climb to? I think so. Whilst the game is 11 v 11, the real game is £ vs £. Since the late 1970s we've been seeking a new stadium. We've been thwarted by planning, NIMBYism, and plenty of other isms. We probably didn't have anything like the money really needed to make those schemes come off, but we are now close. I don't know whether there is a funding gap. I don't know what the current hurdles are to securing agreements that all parties are happy with, but if we want a club with a realistic possibility of competing in the top two leagues, the stadium has got to happen. I also don't know who the potential investors are, but they are not going to put there money in a Conference side playing in an outdated rugby stadium. They are much more likely to invest in a club with a stadium appropriate for the potential audience.
So with due respect to our friend from Lincoln (Population 119k, no extended urban conurbation, stadium capacity 10,120), compare with Bristol (Population 437k, urban conurbation population 1.07 million) a stadium capacity of 21,700 does not seem unreasonable to me.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 14, 2014 13:11:34 GMT
I agree it didn't seem to unreasonable last season so it shouldn't this season when doubt average gates will drop that significantly unless we have a really poor start.
Given the stage we've reached with planning, for the Mem development & the UWE site, plus the debts incurred in getting this far, I now feel it's a case of pressing on regardless.
If all goes t1ts up at least the BoD will have given it their best shot, and BRFC2015 will have a decent ground!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 14:53:16 GMT
Much as I yearn for the days of "Rag-bag Rovers" punching above our weight in what is now the Championship, it is about time that we realised that the football world has moved on. Like it or not, football at the higher levels is about money and I mean serious investment. From the time that our custodians chose not to continue playing during WW2 and selling Eastville, we have embarked on a bumpy ride which has now dumped us in the Conference. I loved Eastville, but it wasn't ours. I loved Twerton, but it wasn't ours. I like the Mem and although it is now ours, it limits the ability of Bristol Rovers to compete and means that, whilst there is potential from our large catchment, we are not going to attract the investment that we need. Does building a new stadium guarantee success? Obviously not. Does NOT building a new stadium limit the position we can climb to? I think so. Whilst the game is 11 v 11, the real game is £ vs £. Since the late 1970s we've been seeking a new stadium. We've been thwarted by planning, NIMBYism, and plenty of other isms. We probably didn't have anything like the money really needed to make those schemes come off, but we are now close. I don't know whether there is a funding gap. I don't know what the current hurdles are to securing agreements that all parties are happy with, but if we want a club with a realistic possibility of competing in the top two leagues, the stadium has got to happen. I also don't know who the potential investors are, but they are not going to put there money in a Conference side playing in an outdated rugby stadium. They are much more likely to invest in a club with a stadium appropriate for the potential audience. So with due respect to our friend from Lincoln (Population 119k, no extended urban conurbation, stadium capacity 10,120), compare with Bristol (Population 437k, urban conurbation population 1.07 million) a stadium capacity of 21,700 does not seem unreasonable to me. Quiet Possible the best post on here so far, 100% Agree with what you have said !
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Post by dinsdale on Jul 14, 2014 15:24:32 GMT
I have to agree with Henbury
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Post by swissgas on Jul 14, 2014 17:01:43 GMT
Much as I yearn for the days of "Rag-bag Rovers" punching above our weight in what is now the Championship, it is about time that we realised that the football world has moved on. Like it or not, football at the higher levels is about money and I mean serious investment. From the time that our custodians chose not to continue playing during WW2 and selling Eastville, we have embarked on a bumpy ride which has now dumped us in the Conference. I loved Eastville, but it wasn't ours. I loved Twerton, but it wasn't ours. I like the Mem and although it is now ours, it limits the ability of Bristol Rovers to compete and means that, whilst there is potential from our large catchment, we are not going to attract the investment that we need. Does building a new stadium guarantee success? Obviously not. Does NOT building a new stadium limit the position we can climb to? I think so. Whilst the game is 11 v 11, the real game is £ vs £. Since the late 1970s we've been seeking a new stadium. We've been thwarted by planning, NIMBYism, and plenty of other isms. We probably didn't have anything like the money really needed to make those schemes come off, but we are now close. I don't know whether there is a funding gap. I don't know what the current hurdles are to securing agreements that all parties are happy with, but if we want a club with a realistic possibility of competing in the top two leagues, the stadium has got to happen. I also don't know who the potential investors are, but they are not going to put there money in a Conference side playing in an outdated rugby stadium. They are much more likely to invest in a club with a stadium appropriate for the potential audience. So with due respect to our friend from Lincoln (Population 119k, no extended urban conurbation, stadium capacity 10,120), compare with Bristol (Population 437k, urban conurbation population 1.07 million) a stadium capacity of 21,700 does not seem unreasonable to me. I like this post although I don't completely agree with it. If the real game was £ vs £ then Rovers wouldn't be where we are now and if owning a stadium was a prerequisite to attracting new investment then I don't know where Manchester City, Hull City or Swansea City fit in ? I do agree the club needs investment in the form of money, expertise and new energy. I do agree being based at a new stadium is more likely to attract new investors than being based at the Mem. But I think there is a great deal of misguided thinking about what a new investor is likely to want and what he is likely to pay for Rovers and the new stadium A 22000 sports stadium on leased land at a University Campus will be worth to an investor only what he can get out of it. There is no resale value unless he can make the facilities at the stadium and the football club successful. A new investor will have to start completely from scratch and invest money in fitting out the stadium to an appropriate standard and employing a team of managers to run it. He will have to invest money in creating a new football structure with proper training facilities and a management team with a budget capable of building a team to attract viable crowds to the stadium. In weighing up whether to buy Bristol Rovers at the UWE Stadium he will compare us with established football league clubs and decide which offers better value. The dilemma for the Rovers directors is that they are faced with finding cash to fund the ongoing trading losses, finding a huge chunk of cash to cover the stadium gap and then may be faced with an investor saying "I'll take the club off your hands but I'm not paying you anything for the club and new stadium because I will have to put in X millions to make the whole thing work so it's just not worth it". It may be that for the Rovers directors it is better if they get out now before committing any more cash and that may be why we seem to be in such a period of inertia. My hope is that they have engaged a top class business brokerage to market the club and stadium project in a professional way and that currently some serious investors are evaluating what Rovers could offer them.
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Post by PessimistGas on Jul 14, 2014 17:47:10 GMT
My hope is that they have engaged a top class business brokerage to market the club and stadium project in a professional way and that currently some serious investors are evaluating what Rovers could offer them. <snigger>
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 18:33:51 GMT
Much as I yearn for the days of "Rag-bag Rovers" punching above our weight in what is now the Championship, it is about time that we realised that the football world has moved on. Like it or not, football at the higher levels is about money and I mean serious investment. From the time that our custodians chose not to continue playing during WW2 and selling Eastville, we have embarked on a bumpy ride which has now dumped us in the Conference. I loved Eastville, but it wasn't ours. I loved Twerton, but it wasn't ours. I like the Mem and although it is now ours, it limits the ability of Bristol Rovers to compete and means that, whilst there is potential from our large catchment, we are not going to attract the investment that we need. Does building a new stadium guarantee success? Obviously not. Does NOT building a new stadium limit the position we can climb to? I think so. Whilst the game is 11 v 11, the real game is £ vs £. Since the late 1970s we've been seeking a new stadium. We've been thwarted by planning, NIMBYism, and plenty of other isms. We probably didn't have anything like the money really needed to make those schemes come off, but we are now close. I don't know whether there is a funding gap. I don't know what the current hurdles are to securing agreements that all parties are happy with, but if we want a club with a realistic possibility of competing in the top two leagues, the stadium has got to happen. I also don't know who the potential investors are, but they are not going to put there money in a Conference side playing in an outdated rugby stadium. They are much more likely to invest in a club with a stadium appropriate for the potential audience. So with due respect to our friend from Lincoln (Population 119k, no extended urban conurbation, stadium capacity 10,120), compare with Bristol (Population 437k, urban conurbation population 1.07 million) a stadium capacity of 21,700 does not seem unreasonable to me. Quiet Possible the best post on here so far, 100% Agree with what you have said ! Really?. Except it is Mom Pop and Apple Pie. So blindingly obvious it misses the question. The question is do we have a BoD with experience in this market place to maximise non football revenues.....No Do we have a BoD who are experienced enough to specify the stadium fit out to the necessary extent to enable the planned activities...No Do we have a BoD who have shown they know how to run a professional football club...No Has this BoD separated the football club and the stadium as legal entities to protect the asset in one, on behalf of the shareholders...yes to the best of my knowledge and some years ago, as Henbury has confirmed. Draw your own conclusions. Will the new stadium at the UWE attract significant equity investment (ie risk capital) ...No...unless someone can articulate the exit route because I cannot see one.
In essence then if the above is correct, and evidentially it is, moving to a new stadium is just potential not current reality and addresses none of the issues at hand
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basel
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,064
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Post by basel on Jul 14, 2014 18:45:19 GMT
I am now of the opinion the UWE will happen because it's too far down the road for it not to. At least i think there must still be a pretty good chance it happens.Fingers crossed of course.
We do need more expertise at Board level to run the UWE though,this is vital.
We also need the board as a whole to get off their ass' and help Nick Higgs.
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Post by alloutofgas on Jul 14, 2014 23:25:21 GMT
There is so much at stake here for the Greater Bristol area, my gut feeling is the stadium will happen and act as a catalyst for millions of pounds of further investment. Don't lose sight of the fact that for all his many faults, Higgs has secured planning permission for a brand new facility of which has not been seen in Bristol before. This is a big thing. I'm convinced that there are people who will put money into this project.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 3:37:50 GMT
Quiet Possible the best post on here so far, 100% Agree with what you have said ! Really?. Except it is Mom Pop and Apple Pie. So blindingly obvious it misses the question. The question is do we have a BoD with experience in this market place to maximise non football revenues.....No Do we have a BoD who are experienced enough to specify the stadium fit out to the necessary extent to enable the planned activities...No Do we have a BoD who have shown they know how to run a professional football club...No Has this BoD separated the football club and the stadium as legal entities to protect the asset in one, on behalf of the shareholders...yes to the best of my knowledge and some years ago, as Henbury has confirmed. Draw your own conclusions. Will the new stadium at the UWE attract significant equity investment (ie risk capital) ...No...unless someone can articulate the exit route because I cannot see one.
In essence then if the above is correct, and evidentially it is, moving to a new stadium is just potential not current reality and addresses none of the issues at hand
What i am saying and its something you don't get is that the stadium is not under the FULL control of the Bod of BRFC so other parties will have some control & checks on what is going on, maybe people who have turned the UWE from a tin pot ex Bristol Polytechnic to a world leading research facility attracting many millions in investment and is now looking to expand into sports Science
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Peter Parker
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Richard Walker
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Post by Peter Parker on Jul 15, 2014 6:53:22 GMT
Quiet Possible the best post on here so far, 100% Agree with what you have said ! Really?. Except it is Mom Pop and Apple Pie. So blindingly obvious it misses the question. The question is do we have a BoD with experience in this market place to maximise non football revenues.....No Do we have a BoD who are experienced enough to specify the stadium fit out to the necessary extent to enable the planned activities...No Do we have a BoD who have shown they know how to run a professional football club...No Has this BoD separated the football club and the stadium as legal entities to protect the asset in one, on behalf of the shareholders...yes to the best of my knowledge and some years ago, as Henbury has confirmed. Draw your own conclusions. Will the new stadium at the UWE attract significant equity investment (ie risk capital) ...No...unless someone can articulate the exit route because I cannot see one.
In essence then if the above is correct, and evidentially it is, moving to a new stadium is just potential not current reality and addresses none of the issues at hand
This is where I find the clubs position of the CEO intriguing. The club say they can't afford one without the stadium, but really they need one to maximise the use of stadium before it is built. I mean as it stands we have board that seems to be dragging it hits heels with an FD and de facto CEO who has zero idea
All it does it perpetuates the long held "Build it and...." strategy they club have peddled for years
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 15, 2014 7:37:57 GMT
Perhaps NH really meant we couldn't afford one until we have Sainsbury's money safe in the bank?
There's little point in employing a CEO until the stadium work has actually commenced.
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Lazza
Rod Hull
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Post by Lazza on Jul 15, 2014 7:38:13 GMT
Really?. Except it is Mom Pop and Apple Pie. So blindingly obvious it misses the question. The question is do we have a BoD with experience in this market place to maximise non football revenues.....No Do we have a BoD who are experienced enough to specify the stadium fit out to the necessary extent to enable the planned activities...No Do we have a BoD who have shown they know how to run a professional football club...No Has this BoD separated the football club and the stadium as legal entities to protect the asset in one, on behalf of the shareholders...yes to the best of my knowledge and some years ago, as Henbury has confirmed. Draw your own conclusions. Will the new stadium at the UWE attract significant equity investment (ie risk capital) ...No...unless someone can articulate the exit route because I cannot see one.
In essence then if the above is correct, and evidentially it is, moving to a new stadium is just potential not current reality and addresses none of the issues at hand
This is where I find the clubs position of the CEO intriguing. The club say they can't afford one without the stadium, but really they need one to maximise the use of stadium before it is built. I mean as it stands we have board that seems to be dragging it hits heels with an FD and de facto CEO who has zero idea
All it does it perpetuates the long held "Build it and...." strategy they club have peddled for years
Agreed. From where I'm standing there's no evidence of anything else other than this. Is there? If so, where? Hiding somewhere? "Build it and they will come!" seems all they have up their sleeve. There's certainly not enough expertise currently within the club and it's structure to suggest anything else. And the CEO business, and the BoD's current stance on it, as you say doesn't make any sound business sense. Direction is needed now, not the same old inept rudderless ship that is BRFC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 8:23:57 GMT
This is where I find the clubs position of the CEO intriguing. The club say they can't afford one without the stadium, but really they need one to maximise the use of stadium before it is built. I mean as it stands we have board that seems to be dragging it hits heels with an FD and de facto CEO who has zero idea
All it does it perpetuates the long held "Build it and...." strategy they club have peddled for years
Agreed. From where I'm standing there's no evidence of anything else other than this. Is there? If so, where? Hiding somewhere? "Build it and they will come!" seems all they have up their sleeve. There's certainly not enough expertise currently within the club and it's structure to suggest anything else. And the CEO business, and the BoD's current stance on it, as you say doesn't make any sound business sense. Direction is needed now, not the same old inept rudderless ship that is BRFC. Again agreed As for this from Henbury..
Is that right Henbury? and if so how does that stack up to pronouncements from the BoD that the club will own its own stadium, debt free? That the revenues accruing from non football related activities are the only way forward for the club? If the current BoD are not in full control of stadium activities then how can they even pretend that they have control of those incremental revenues that they, and everyone who believes them apparently, say are so crucial to the future of the club? One last word on that last comment in your post. If the UWE has attracted "many millions" in private investment, I don't know but have no reason to doubt your assertion, do you think those investors did that without an eye on the ROI and exit route? Of course, I am sure you will concede. Can you define an ROI and exit route to justify investing in either the Stadium Company or the football club as currently constituted and contractually obligated? I cannot, maybe you know more, but if you cannot this constant red flagging of "attracting investment" is just nonsense, a deflection from the true issues of the performance of the BoD.
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