Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 17:11:44 GMT
Well Somerset have done all they can. Now relying on Middlesex to put up a fight against Yorkshire, who suddenly look like the favourites to win.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372 
|
Post by irishrover on Sept 22, 2016 17:32:16 GMT
Well Somerset have done all they can. Now relying on Middlesex to put up a fight against Yorkshire, who suddenly look like the favourites to win. The complexity of the tactics involved in this have been amazing. There are suggestions are just going to bat on and then set Yorkshire a T20 target on the basis that they will have to go for them and will give the wickets away. Likewise this morning everyone wondered why Somerset batted on and on but someone suggested to me it was to try to make sure that the game didn't end too early. Because if Yorkshire hadn't got to 350 and the extra batting point then they'd have had little to play for if they knew Somerset had won but Somerset would have needed them to beat Middlesex. Now Somerset need a draw. It's amazingly complex but we go into the last day of the County Championship with 3 teams that have a very realistic chance of winning it and 4 different results possible at Lords that could spin the Championship to any one of those 3 counties. I can't remember a finish to a season quite like this before. Somerset are definitely the outsiders because it's in the interests of both Middlesex and Yorks to contrive a result but a lot could go wrong in the contriving calculations that could produce a draw. Some special performances going around too. Bresnan's innings was one for the ages as was Sidebottom's effort and the Somerset tailenders eeking out the extra batting point yesterday. Leach has been remarkable, so has Brooks. It's been high quality stuff. Any chance somebody could start televising more of this please..... |
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 17:42:27 GMT
Its in their obvious interest to force a result, but I can't see either side wanting to gift the other the title.
I think Middlesex will look to bat til tea, at least, and try to give Yorkshire 200+ to chase in a session. As you say, the possibility of a draw is huge. Just need Middlesex to stay firm early on, and the balance will swing back Somerset's way.
Begrudgingly, I'm finding myself hoping Somerset win. Most odd.
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,590
|
Post by warehamgas on Sept 22, 2016 20:46:38 GMT
Why begrudgingly? But it's a forum and we all have an opinion and that's fair enough but... I've waited since I first started watching Somerset in 1965 to win this competition and Somerset have waited nearly 140 years! Don't begrudge us our moment. Do you think cricket is like football where I could understand not wanting the opposition ie. City to win anything? If shoe was on other foot I would be hoping Gloucs would win. The ECB I'm sure will be hoping Yorks or Middx win as I've said on here many times they would like the Division 1 of this to be the test playing grounds counties. That way makes easy decisions about franchising. So for Somerset to win the major competition would be a fantastic one in the eye for the ECB. For the first time ever I can honestly say we deserve to win it, no luck, no good fortune just well deserved. We've won more matches than anyone, against Yorkshire we've beaten them by 10 wickets and had a winning draw where the weather saved then from an innings defeat, against Middx we've had a winning draw and our only loss when it was a fantastic match where we set a challenging total which they got (see opening post to this thread).
So all in all we've done all we can, now we have to wait for a bit of luck and hope for the draw.
ps. If you think Rovers have been Rag Bag Rovers then Somerset, compared to other counties in League 1.... Blimey I can remember watching us with the literal one-man-and-his- dog watching in 60s on many occasions. So to be where we are now! Somersetvare were really a rag bag bunch for most of our history.
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,590
|
Post by warehamgas on Sept 22, 2016 21:15:34 GMT
Well Somerset have done all they can. Now relying on Middlesex to put up a fight against Yorkshire, who suddenly look like the favourites to win. The complexity of the tactics involved in this have been amazing. There are suggestions are just going to bat on and then set Yorkshire a T20 target on the basis that they will have to go for them and will give the wickets away. Likewise this morning everyone wondered why Somerset batted on and on but someone suggested to me it was to try to make sure that the game didn't end too early. Because if Yorkshire hadn't got to 350 and the extra batting point then they'd have had little to play for if they knew Somerset had won but Somerset would have needed them to beat Middlesex. Now Somerset need a draw. It's amazingly complex but we go into the last day of the County Championship with 3 teams that have a very realistic chance of winning it and 4 different results possible at Lords that could spin the Championship to any one of those 3 counties. I can't remember a finish to a season quite like this before. Somerset are definitely the outsiders because it's in the interests of both Middlesex and Yorks to contrive a result but a lot could go wrong in the contriving calculations that could produce a draw. Some special performances going around too. Bresnan's innings was one for the ages as was Sidebottom's effort and the Somerset tailenders eeking out the extra batting point yesterday. Leach has been remarkable, so has Brooks. It's been high quality stuff. Any chance somebody could start televising more of this please..... Think you're right Irish. With their pace attack Yorkshire could over run Middx and they must be favourites for the title now. If Middx can avoid a collapse this morning they will bat to set a target as you suggest in the afternoon which gives both a chance to win. Yorkshire themselves might have collapsed if they hadn't got the point with little to play for. So an exciting day! Come on Somerset or should that be Middlesex... I just don't know! |
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Sept 22, 2016 21:40:12 GMT
Why begrudgingly? But it's a forum and we all have an opinion and that's fair enough but... I've waited since I first started watching Somerset in 1965 to win this competition and Somerset have waited nearly 140 years! Don't begrudge us our moment. Do you think cricket is like football where I could understand not wanting the opposition ie. City to win anything? If shoe was on other foot I would be hoping Gloucs would win. The ECB I'm sure will be hoping Yorks or Middx win as I've said on here many times they would like the Division 1 of this to be the test playing grounds counties. That way makes easy decisions about franchising. So for Somerset to win the major competition would be a fantastic one in the eye for the ECB. For the first time ever I can honestly say we deserve to win it, no luck, no good fortune just well deserved. We've won more matches than anyone, against Yorkshire we've beaten them by 10 wickets and had a winning draw where the weather saved then from an innings defeat, against Middx we've had a winning draw and our only loss when it was a fantastic match where we set a challenging total which they got (see opening post to this thread). So all in all we've done all we can, now we have to wait for a bit of luck and hope for the draw. ps. If you think Rovers have been Rag Bag Rovers then Somerset, compared to other counties in League 1.... Blimey I can remember watching us with the literal one-man-and-his- dog watching in 60s on many occasions. So to be where we are now! Somersetvare were really a rag bag bunch for most of our history. Yeah that's the thing isn't it. For most of their history Gloucestershire were far more successful than Somerset but inconveniently kept forgetting to actually win the Championship! Since the Richards/Botham era the boot has generally been on the other foot with Somerset being the more fashionable and eye catching county in general although that hasn't necessarily translated into silverware as often as it could have done while Glos seem to have a very impressive ratio of winning things in the fairly brief periods where they are actually competitive. I'd just like to see a Championship finally come to the Westcountry so it stops being looked at as some form of cricketing back water elsewhere which is absolute rubbish because we are actually one of the main cricket hotspots in the country.
The Trescothick v Gimblett record thing highlights this well because it has a double edged sword for Somerset really. On the one hand it is a great story - and the way county cricket is going I think Tres wlll probably be the last county stalwart batting champion ever which is somewhat sad but also fantastic to have lived through. On the flip side though the fact that he can get close to a record like that while playing in the modern era really does highlight how awful Somerset were for most of their history pre the arrival of the Brian Close era. Because if you look at most counties the leading run scorer is from the 1900-1940 era when they were playing 2 games a week and they wracked up a comic book number of runs! The Frank Woolley's, Patsy Hendren's, Wally Hammond's etc. The fact Somerset never produced anyone like that is a bit damning really. Even Gimblett was pretty late to the party. So it sort of reinforces the fact that for most of their history Somerset were basically an amateur club competing in a professional world - I think that's a fair description.
In fact I'm quite sad and I've looked this up. Somerset's all time run scoring record is the lowest for any county (excluding Durham for obvious reasons) and only Gooch for Essex, and, interestingly, Kim Barnett for Derbyshire (and maybe Mike Denness for Warwickshire at a push) could reasonably be considered players from the 'modern' era who hold these records. It also shows how fantastic an achievement it would be for Trescothick to get there (though he probably won't as it's still a couple more seasons away at least). But the point is it highlights that Somerset, despite sometimes having a kind of national reputation in the media as representing a 'historic' image of the game as was, are actually better described as a product of the modern game when it comes to cricketing success and producing high quality players.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Sept 22, 2016 21:46:26 GMT
The complexity of the tactics involved in this have been amazing. There are suggestions are just going to bat on and then set Yorkshire a T20 target on the basis that they will have to go for them and will give the wickets away. Likewise this morning everyone wondered why Somerset batted on and on but someone suggested to me it was to try to make sure that the game didn't end too early. Because if Yorkshire hadn't got to 350 and the extra batting point then they'd have had little to play for if they knew Somerset had won but Somerset would have needed them to beat Middlesex. Now Somerset need a draw. It's amazingly complex but we go into the last day of the County Championship with 3 teams that have a very realistic chance of winning it and 4 different results possible at Lords that could spin the Championship to any one of those 3 counties. I can't remember a finish to a season quite like this before. Somerset are definitely the outsiders because it's in the interests of both Middlesex and Yorks to contrive a result but a lot could go wrong in the contriving calculations that could produce a draw. Some special performances going around too. Bresnan's innings was one for the ages as was Sidebottom's effort and the Somerset tailenders eeking out the extra batting point yesterday. Leach has been remarkable, so has Brooks. It's been high quality stuff. Any chance somebody could start televising more of this please..... Think you're right Irish. With their pace attack Yorkshire could over run Middx and they must be favourites for the title now. If Middx can avoid a collapse this morning they will bat to set a target as you suggest in the afternoon which gives both a chance to win. Yorkshire themselves might have collapsed if they hadn't got the point with little to play for. So an exciting day! Come on Somerset or should that be Middlesex... I just don't know! That's it exactly - if you're interest is in Somerset winning the Championship it's quite hard to know sometimes exactly what it is you want to be happening at Lords! So obviously for most of today I was following it and hoping Yorks didn't get to 350. But once they did I was actually pleased that they carried on batting because the more runs they get, the longer Middlesex had to bat and the more time is taken out of the games final (and I'm predicting very manic) phase. I think the general perception seemed to be that Yorks made a mistake batting on because, from their point of view, the extra runs didn't matter all that much because they weren't going to be able to definitively bat Middlesex out the game and all they were doing was making a draw more likely. Then in the Middlesex innings I was rooting hugely for Middlesex as it looked like Yorks might go through them. But once Gubbins and Malan had steadied and were looking comfortable I started leaning a bit the other way because I didn't want them to score too quickly and set up a guaranteed finish one way or the other. Tomorrow will be complicated! |
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,590
|
Post by warehamgas on Sept 22, 2016 22:20:18 GMT
Nail- biting for us Somerset fans at least!!
|
|
jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
|
Post by jackthegas on Sept 23, 2016 9:46:05 GMT
It's a fantastic finish and as Irish rightly states, it's such a shame that Sky hold the rights to Championship cricket and show two games a season at most. The ECB seem prepared to sell the rights to a new monstrosity of a T20 competition to broadcasters so maybe they will consider doing something similar with he First Class game (assuming they haven't ruinined it by changing the number of sides in each division next season).
Unless Middlesex find themselves in trouble early on and decide they are not prepared to watch Yorkshire win the trophy on their own patch then a result has to be the favourite outcome I think. I hope I'm wrong though. The way Somerset have rebuilt over the last few years has been terrific. They'd be worthy winners.
|
|
warehamgas
Predictions League
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,590
|
Post by warehamgas on Sept 23, 2016 12:15:55 GMT
Why begrudgingly? But it's a forum and we all have an opinion and that's fair enough but... I've waited since I first started watching Somerset in 1965 to win this competition and Somerset have waited nearly 140 years! Don't begrudge us our moment. Do you think cricket is like football where I could understand not wanting the opposition ie. City to win anything? If shoe was on other foot I would be hoping Gloucs would win. The ECB I'm sure will be hoping Yorks or Middx win as I've said on here many times they would like the Division 1 of this to be the test playing grounds counties. That way makes easy decisions about franchising. So for Somerset to win the major competition would be a fantastic one in the eye for the ECB. For the first time ever I can honestly say we deserve to win it, no luck, no good fortune just well deserved. We've won more matches than anyone, against Yorkshire we've beaten them by 10 wickets and had a winning draw where the weather saved then from an innings defeat, against Middx we've had a winning draw and our onlyZa loss when it was a fantastic match where we set a challenging total which they got (see opening post to this thread). So all in all we've done all we can, now we have to wait for a bit of luck and hope for the draw. ps. If you think Rovers have been Rag Bag Rovers then Somerset, compared to other counties in League 1.... Blimey I can remember watching us with the literal one-man-and-his- dog watching in 60s on many occasions. So to be where we are now! Somersetvare were really a rag bag bunch for most of our history. Yeah that's the thing isn't it. For most of their history Gloucestershire were far more successful than Somerset but inconveniently kept forgetting to actually win the Championship! Since the Richards/Botham era the boot has generally been on the other foot with Somerset being the more fashionable and eye catching county in general although that hasn't necessarily translated into silverware as often as it could have done while Glos seem to have a very impressive ratio of winning things in the fairly brief periods where they are actually competitive. I'd just like to see a Championship finally come to the Westcountry so it stops being looked at as some form of cricketing back water elsewhere which is absolute rubbish because we are actually one of the main cricket hotspots in the country.
The Trescothick v Gimblett record thing highlights this well because it has a double edged sword for Somerset really. On the one hand it is a great story - and the way county cricket is going I think Tres wlll probably be the last county stalwart batting champion ever which is somewhat sad but also fantastic to have lived through. On the flip side though the fact that he can get close to a record like that while playing in the modern era really does highlight how awful Somerset were for most of their history pre the arrival of the Brian Close era. Because if you look at most counties the leading run scorer is from the 1900-1940 era when they were playing 2 games a week and they wracked up a comic book number of runs! The Frank Woolley's, Patsy Hendren's, Wally Hammond's etc. The fact Somerset never produced anyone like that is a bit damning really. Even Gimblett was pretty late to the party. So it sort of reinforces the fact that for most of their history Somerset were basically an amateur club competing in a professional world - I think that's a fair description.
In fact I'm quite sad and I've looked this up. Somerset's all time run scoring record is the lowest for any county (excluding Durham for obvious reasons) and only Gooch for Essex, and, interestingly, Kim Barnett for Derbyshire (and maybe Mike Denness for Warwickshire at a push) could reasonably be considered players from the 'modern' era who hold these records. It also shows how fantastic an achievement it would be for Trescothick to get there (though he probably won't as it's still a couple more seasons away at least). But the point is it highlights that Somerset, despite sometimes having a kind of national reputation in the media as representing a 'historic' image of the game as was, are actually better described as a product of the modern game when it comes to cricketing success and producing high quality players.
For nearly all our history Somerset have been a poor cricketing county who have aspired to mediocrity! Up until and including the 1950s Somerset were almost run as a gentlemans club with amateurs being preferred to professionals. In the 50s we were awful, being at the bottom of the table for all but a few seasons. Yet despite this we were portrayed in a rosy light as a romantic sideshow and when I first watched in mid 60s although much better the facilities were very poor when I now consider what it was like. I remember doing well in 1967 and finishing 3rd although we never threatened the top spot. But it represented a huge improvement on the 50s. It took Brian Close to transform the playing fortunes. Despite not winning anything under him we did threaten and we were taken far more seriously as a contender. And with the younger players, Botham, Richards, Denning, Rose and Roebuck it did mark us down as serious contenders and we were able to attract better players. As you say Irish, many of our records date from post-1971 days because they were better players and that is incredible because pre 1970s teams played almost 30 matches a season which gave even modest players opportunities to set records. That Tres has done so well for us is something both in terms of the number of runs and the length of service that will not be repeated. Where Somerset has had an advantage in all this and part if the reason we have risen over the years (despite whatever happens today) is that Taunton is a cricket town where talk if cricket is always present. Cricket has little other sporting rivalry. I can't think of any other counties where cricket is the prime sport with the possible exception of Canterbury for Kent and possibly Chelmsford for Essex even those have football teams rivalling the cricket. This doesn't happen in Taunton, cricket is king! Wherever I've been in the world talking to people of similar interests if I've talked about football and said I supported Rovers they knew who they were but I was unable to pretend they were top drawer but if I was talking about cricket, people in Australia and New Zealand would immediately know Somerset and we could have a good talk about common players. For once I could actually believe I supported one of the better teams in the world! ( Perhaps it will come with Rovers one day!!) Somerset have given great pride to a small county town. |
|
jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
|
Post by jackthegas on Sept 23, 2016 13:46:12 GMT
240 in 40 overs is a pretty generous declaration but that kind of unedifying scenario was always on the cards unfortunately. Both sides will have to attack and keep attacking so a draw is probably the least likely outcome now. If Middlesex can pick up early wickets though Yorkshire might be forced to rebuild which might bring the draw back into the equation.
In terms of the favourites for the title now I reckon it's probably Yorkshire, then Middlesex then Somerset.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 13:57:27 GMT
Agreed, that's an outrageous declaration. They're about an hour and 50 runs short of making it difficult for Yorkshire. Yorkshire can lose from here, but a draw looks highly unlikely with so much time left.
|
|
jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
|
Post by jackthegas on Sept 23, 2016 16:12:10 GMT
Looks like Middlesex know the MCC's pitch better than most as the declaration was about right in hindsight. Yorkshire look like they might almost be out of it here. 10 an over is a massive ask but they will have to keep going.
I reckon my money is now Middlesex, Somerset then Yorkshire. But I've changed my mind several times in the last half hour. Great stuff!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 16:12:46 GMT
Well what do I know anyway? Yorks need 80 off 8 with four wickets. This is incredibly close, and the draw is definitely in play.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Sept 23, 2016 16:17:00 GMT
I don't think Middlesex had any choice - had to keep Yorkshire interested and keep coming at them in order to create wickets. Too high a target and they wouldn't have chased it. I think it was the right shout. This has gone much better for Somerset than I expected though - draw still definitely on here which I didn't think it would be with 6 Overs left.
|
|
jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
|
Post by jackthegas on Sept 23, 2016 16:26:59 GMT
I wonder whether Yorkshire fancy watching Middlesex lift the trophy? Somerset better hope they don't. I think the only hope Somerset have is that Yorkshire start to block.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Sept 23, 2016 16:30:31 GMT
I wonder whether Yorkshire fancy watching Middlesex lift the trophy? Somerset better hope they don't. I think the only hope Somerset have is that Yorkshire start to block. Well all over now! Fair play to Middlesex - probably just about were the best team over the course of the season. Very tough on Somerset though. |
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 16:31:58 GMT
Yorkshire have blown it, desperately unlucky for Somerset. Middlesex win with a hat-trick!
|
|
jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
|
Post by jackthegas on Sept 23, 2016 16:37:05 GMT
Wow. What a finish! Middlesex were third favourites an hour ago. Somerset certainly left cursing their luck again but I agree that Middlesex probably just about deserve it. They've had a good set of bowlers for a few years not but their batsmen have really stepped it up this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by lostinspace on Sept 23, 2016 17:01:46 GMT
didn't roland jones play for Somerset at one time ?
|
|
