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Post by lincolnfan on Jul 8, 2014 2:33:17 GMT
There is no business case for investing in any lower league club. How on earth would you get your money back? As a business owner the idea is to make a profit on the "investment". How are you going to do that outside the Premier League as at present constituted?
Answers on a postcard please, preferably to your local bank branch.
As a "fan" with money to spare or which you don't want to get back that's one thing. But as a profitable normally commercial business (like the corner shop or some local store) no one would touch football with the proverbial bleedin' bargepole except as a tax loss, possibly, for a PROPER profitable business.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 5:11:57 GMT
therealist is surely an ironic name when you post about 40,000 "gasheads",surely realism is facing the facts not coming up with armies of fans that don't exist.
1 - suggesting that those fans who came to Cardiff / London weren't gasheads is very disparaging to them. most of them went a long way and spent a lot of time and money to go and support Rovers.
i'll give you a very simple example. My 2 brothers came. they went pretty regularly to Twerton when they lived in Bath. after moving away neither went as much of course, but they go to away games and the odd home game if back in Bath. neither can drive and neither has much money. yet they came from Leeds and Nottingham. My best friend friend also came, from Bicester. He's a Norwich fan and we've been going to each others matches regularly for over 20 years. he's therefore been to a lot of gas games, including some when 2 men and his dog have been there. he is an honorary gashead in anyone's eyes. To even suggest that those three aren't proper gasheads is insulting. I'm sure most of the 35-40,000 will have similar stories to tell.
2 - the OP never suggested they would all turn out week in, week out. if you read his original comments it certainly doesn;t say anything about that.
An ex manager of mine went to Wembley,he is a season ticket holder at Ashton gate and would laugh in your face if you called him a "gashead",he went for a day out with his mates,another bloke I know took his son they have never been to football before or since,if you want to believe that Rovers are (or have the potential) to become a massive club you carry on. I went to my first game in 67 and I have watched football in other places over the years,Rovers may have under performed over the years but sleeping giant no way,actually there isn't much point in talking about this any more because the fantasists are going to keep pointing to the "40,000 gasheads" where the realists will ask when the last crowd over 20,000 was ?. |
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jozer
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Post by jozer on Jul 8, 2014 5:25:41 GMT
I wouldn't suggest that we could get 40,000 to support the club week in week out, but 20,000 could happen.
I had heard that some C**y fans went to Cardiff & Wembley just for the day out, but what about the nearly 7,000 who went to an FA cup game at Derby?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 5:43:50 GMT
I wouldn't suggest that we could get 40,000 to support the club week in week out, but 20,000 could happen. I had heard that some C**y fans went to Cardiff & Wembley just for the day out, but what about the nearly 7,000 who went to an FA cup game at Derby? I am not saying that Rovers don't have good supporters,yes 7000 at an away game is a good turnout,but its still for a big game,we didn't sell out for the Wycombe away game and that was important. I watched Rovers through the 70s in the second division not many 20,000 crowds then,check back on the attendances and I don't think that football has so many people going now so why should Rovers home gate treble to 20,000 ? Another thing to remember is the average age of supporters,eventually they get to old to go or they die,who replaces them ? nowhere near as many kids going now as there used to be. Did anyone else have a look at the crowd at Pompey ? I was quite surprised by how many people wher over 50 ( Rovers and Portsmouth),I don't want to be pessimistic but lets keep it real |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 6:06:27 GMT
1 - suggesting that those fans who came to Cardiff / London weren't gasheads is very disparaging to them. most of them went a long way and spent a lot of time and money to go and support Rovers.
i'll give you a very simple example. My 2 brothers came. they went pretty regularly to Twerton when they lived in Bath. after moving away neither went as much of course, but they go to away games and the odd home game if back in Bath. neither can drive and neither has much money. yet they came from Leeds and Nottingham. My best friend friend also came, from Bicester. He's a Norwich fan and we've been going to each others matches regularly for over 20 years. he's therefore been to a lot of gas games, including some when 2 men and his dog have been there. he is an honorary gashead in anyone's eyes. To even suggest that those three aren't proper gasheads is insulting. I'm sure most of the 35-40,000 will have similar stories to tell.
2 - the OP never suggested they would all turn out week in, week out. if you read his original comments it certainly doesn;t say anything about that.
An ex manager of mine went to Wembley,he is a season ticket holder at Ashton gate and would laugh in your face if you called him a "gashead",he went for a day out with his mates,another bloke I know took his son they have never been to football before or since,if you want to believe that Rovers are (or have the potential) to become a massive club you carry on. I went to my first game in 67 and I have watched football in other places over the years,Rovers may have under performed over the years but sleeping giant no way,actually there isn't much point in talking about this any more because the fantasists are going to keep pointing to the "40,000 gasheads" where the realists will ask when the last crowd over 20,000 was ?. You make some valid points. The last 20 odd thousand gates were Southampton and ipswitch in the FA Cup in `78. 28,000 and 26,000 from memory. I also remember one boxing day v Wolves when we got stuffed 1.5 there were just over 20,000 around `76ish? So basically people turned up for the big games at Eastville when the average was anything between 5,500 and 13,000 depending on what division we were in. New stadiums always attract more people if the football club is on the rise up the leagues. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 6:18:33 GMT
Yes games against big clubs in the cup plus wolves in the league and they all brought good support.
As for your last point,I know that if they go up the divisions home crowds would improve maybe to 12,000 ( IMO ) on a good day,but just remember in all seater stadiums you don't get the atmosphere and some blokes will stop going because of that.
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Post by ipswichrover on Jul 8, 2014 6:44:20 GMT
Which Bristol team people support tends to get permanently decided sometime in primary school. Sometimes it is decided by who your family support or by which ground is closest to where you live, but for most it which team was the best when you were young. Regrettably for about 80% of the last 50 years that has not been Rovers. Somebody above commented on the number of people over 50 there were in the crowd at Pompey and I notice exactly the same thing at lots of Rovers games. Lack of success ( and the ten years in relatively far away Bath) have had an effect on our fan base that cannot be quickly changed. When this season little boys ask their dads to go to football match, neutral dad will say 'ok, Bristol City v Sheffield United or Bristol Rovers v Braintree?' Little boy makes his choice and will still be a sh*thead in 2075. Each year we are so far behind our rivals has a permanent effect which lasts for decades into the future
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Post by empirebaypete on Jul 8, 2014 7:15:47 GMT
Well maybe, just maybe if we do get a new ground someone will see the light.
Here in Australia I go to a 20,000 THREE sided stadium to see the Mariners. This year the season ticket for my son is $15. Not even Ten quid to you.
I know things are way different here. The next season will only be the tenth A league season. So clubs, especially mine, are still trying to attract
people to the game. We only get 6 or 7000 a lot of the time. Maybe more if we're playing one of the three local teams. But if it wasn't for the kids
cheap tickets there would be way less. Don't forget an adult has to bring those kids. And the food they eat. I don't know how the parents afford it.
Bottle of cordial and a packet of crisps go in our bag. Anyway if Rovers do get to the UWE I would have thought it would be much better dishing out
dirt cheap tickets to the kids, than have a half empty stadium.
ipswichrover, I get what you're saying but even if I was growing up now, there's no way my Mum would have let me support the s**t.
My son doesn't have a choice. Mariners, the local team. Rovers, it runs in the family. There is no choice. Australia, as he's an Aussie.
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Post by Phrench Phil on Jul 8, 2014 7:28:38 GMT
An ex manager of mine went to Wembley,he is a season ticket holder at Ashton gate and would laugh in your face if you called him a "gashead",he went for a day out with his mates,another bloke I know took his son they have never been to football before or since,if you want to believe that Rovers are (or have the potential) to become a massive club you carry on. I went to my first game in 67 and I have watched football in other places over the years,Rovers may have under performed over the years but sleeping giant no way,actually there isn't much point in talking about this any more because the fantasists are going to keep pointing to the "40,000 gasheads" where the realists will ask when the last crowd over 20,000 was ?. You make some valid points. The last 20 odd thousand gates were Southampton and ipswitch in the FA Cup in `78. 28,000 and 26,000 from memory. I also remember one boxing day v Wolves when we got stuffed 1.5 there were just over 20,000 around `76ish? So basically people turned up for the big games at Eastville when the average was anything between 5,500 and 13,000 depending on what division we were in. New stadiums always attract more people if the football club is on the rise up the leagues. I remember it well, especially the applause from the (many!) Wolves fans when Rovers scored - they were 5-0 down at the time. |
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LJG
Peter Beadle
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Post by LJG on Jul 8, 2014 7:41:55 GMT
Rather than day dreaming at figures the best way to answer these things is with empirical evidence. So what's the best comparable we've got of a football league club with a 21,000 seater stadium like we want to have with a catchment area the same size as ours ... oh yeah ... City.
Ashton Gate capacity is 21,500 or somewhere near that.
Ave attendance in the Champ =
09/10: 14,600
10/11: 14,600
11/12: 13,900
12/13: 13,300
So where is all this "we could draw 20,000" b0ll0cks coming from? It's clearly false given our record attendances and by comparing what would be a like for like club. And 40,000? You've got to be kidding me.
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Post by Northville Blue on Jul 8, 2014 7:48:12 GMT
You make some valid points. The last 20 odd thousand gates were Southampton and ipswitch in the FA Cup in `78. 28,000 and 26,000 from memory. I also remember one boxing day v Wolves when we got stuffed 1.5 there were just over 20,000 around `76ish? So basically people turned up for the big games at Eastville when the average was anything between 5,500 and 13,000 depending on what division we were in. New stadiums always attract more people if the football club is on the rise up the leagues. I remember it well, especially the applause from the (many!) Wolves fans when Rovers scored - they were 5-0 down at the time. David Williams screamer. Steve Kindon was different class that day for Wolves. |
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Post by empirebaypete on Jul 8, 2014 8:33:14 GMT
In reply to LJG Well, you'd be falling over five thousand short of a full house. That means that there could be incentives in place to get the kids along. What would we rather have empty seats or cheap tickets for kids. With the hope those kids ask for food etc. The kids are the fans of the future. The Rovers have to start attracting them. I didn't go to the Wolves game. It was Boxing Day and we had relatives over.  or should I think I was lucky to miss it? |
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LJG
Peter Beadle
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Post by LJG on Jul 8, 2014 8:46:59 GMT
In reply to LJG Well, you'd be falling over five thousand short of a full house. That means that there could be incentives in place to get the kids along. What would we rather have empty seats or cheap tickets for kids. With the hope those kids ask for food etc. The kids are the fans of the future. The Rovers have to start attracting them. I didn't go to the Wolves game. It was Boxing Day and we had relatives over. or should I think I was lucky to miss it? Indeed, but capacity of The Mem is 10,500. Our ave crowd is about 4,500 - 5,500. So still roughly 5,000 spare places. We could be doing that now. My wider point being that all these guys above thinking that we're going to magic up an extra 16,000 (36,000 if you listen to some of them) regular fans just because we're playing Sheffield United in a Lego brick in the middle of nowhere is completely deluded. |
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Post by empirebaypete on Jul 8, 2014 8:56:18 GMT
In reply to LJG Well, you'd be falling over five thousand short of a full house. That means that there could be incentives in place to get the kids along. What would we rather have empty seats or cheap tickets for kids. With the hope those kids ask for food etc. The kids are the fans of the future. The Rovers have to start attracting them. I didn't go to the Wolves game. It was Boxing Day and we had relatives over. or should I think I was lucky to miss it? Indeed, but capacity of The Mem is 10,500. Our ave crowd is about 4,500 - 5,500. So still roughly 5,000 spare places. We could be doing that now. My wider point being that all these guys above thinking that we're going to magic up an extra 16,000 (36,000 if you listen to some of them) regular fans just because we're playing Sheffield United in a Lego brick in the middle of nowhere is completely deluded. Sorry Mate. I thought we were talking about if Rovers got the UWE and were playing in League One for instance. Yes I tend to agree. Would 15000 turn up at the UWE on a cold wet November night to see Huddersfield play? I doubt it. In your other post you said how many the other lot got. Even if Rovers were in top half of League one it would take a number of years to get even 12000. The support would have to rebuild. I must admit I love taking my son along as our stadium is all seater. If we were in Bristol and I had to take him and stand up i don't know if I would because of not being able to see properly. IF the UWE does go ahead it would be good to have a family area set aside. Cheap family seats. Maybe if you're a season ticket holder and you wanted to take the family once or twice a year you should be allowed to upgrade your season ticket for that game. Not that it's for us to worry about but the other lot may be in the same boat. Declining gates, not just because of relegation. Due to the younger ones not going too. |
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jozer
Joined: May 2014
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Post by jozer on Jul 8, 2014 11:26:13 GMT
thing is Rovers & City's fortunes do seem to be linked. They go up and down together. This is true historically, and since both clubs were promoted in 2007, both did well for a couple of years, and have been on the slide since.
6/7 years back City were one match away from the Prem', and looking forward to the Ashton Vale development. Now that's dead and they're adrift in the 3rd flight. As I've said before they only look good standing next to us, and I think a lot of them know it.
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LJG
Peter Beadle
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Posts: 969
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Post by LJG on Jul 8, 2014 11:32:20 GMT
thing is Rovers & City's fortunes do seem to be linked. They go up and down together. This is true historically, and since both clubs were promoted in 2007, both did well for a couple of years, and have been on the slide since. 6/7 years back City were one match away from the Prem', and looking forward to the Ashton Vale development. Now that's dead and they're adrift in the 3rd flight. As I've said before they only look good standing next to us, and I think a lot of them know it. But isn't that exactly the point? These guys thinking that there's a fan-base of 40,000 to be had are just dreaming. Even if there was only one club - Bristol United, the figures don't say that we'd get 20,000 week in week out in the Champ. |
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Post by frenchgashead on Jul 8, 2014 13:36:10 GMT
There is no way UWE would be full (except perhaps in the Premier). If it is, at best, half full, is it a 'white elephant' that is actually going to be a drain on the club's resources. Without the right conditions the main purpose of the stadium is to free up the assets of the club for the benefit of the directors.
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
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For Sale
Jul 8, 2014 17:28:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by Peter Parker on Jul 8, 2014 17:28:01 GMT
How much has Barry Hearn sold Orient for?
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Post by swissgas on Jul 8, 2014 17:41:34 GMT
How much has Barry Hearn sold Orient for? I don't think it's been disclosed Peter but my guess is the deal would be something like this. Barry Hearn writes off about 2 million of liabilities the football club owe Sells the shares in the club for a pound Leases the ground to the new owner, allows a long rent free period and gives an option to buy at a fixed price. I read that in acknowledging messages of support from fans Barry Hearn said "I gave my best at all times and I am proud of my contribution to our club" |
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Post by phillistine on Jul 8, 2014 18:02:00 GMT
A few weeks ago I suggested that this was a great time for someone to get Rovers on the cheap and my comments were dismissed as " rose tinted". Perhaps the Orient situation has made people realise that there are people out there looking to acquire a club that they can build. Whilst the fans can see only gloom and doom , we are a club in a major city with a brand new stadium in the pipeline and ready access to the Football league which many foreign investors want.
It is true that the team itself is on an all time low but ironically that is the easiest thing for a monied person to correct. By just throwing money Clarkes way and by building a team of mercenaries , we could reach the Championship within 3 years . As we stand at the moment such a thought sounds ridiculous but that is the reality of the situation.
Will it happen ? Who knows - probably not knowing our luck.
People have been sniffing around but obviously they did not have the money or offer enough to entice Higgs and Co to part with their shareholding.
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or should I think I was lucky to miss it?
