|
|
Post by Curly Wurly on Jul 4, 2014 15:25:05 GMT
Actually Padstow I thought the same. Perhaps Mancgas has selective vision. He saw assaults that none of us in the Blackthorn End saw, but obviously missed GBH committed by our finest against a helpless lad. In fact some of our oldest fans were shouting at them to lay off because the lad was helpless in the face of such a concerted assault. If he had suffered a medical attack of some description as a result of the assault we would have several policemen in court for a vicious assault, not 25 people who encroached onto a football pitch. Whilst I defend our police for the awful job they have to carry out, there was just no need for that attack. Be interesting to hear Mancgas' view of the incident. It happened right beneath where he sits. By the way, monster monster is a sh*thead. Just read some of his postings on OTIB. I've written and then not posted a number of times on this thread, because I cannot believe the inequality of the action at the Mansfield game and subsequent arrests compared with the lack of action at Ashton Gate for similar offences. Instead though, I would point to the positive policing and particularly stewarding at Wycombe as a suggestion to Rovers and our police liaison team for the future. I'm not in the police, nor do I have any particular experience, but I would strongly suggest that the mechanism of policing at these 3 games either contributed to or prevented disorder. Expecting a mass incursion on to the pitch at the end of the Wycombe game, the police and stewards simply moved their line from the goal line to the 18 yard line and contained the crowd in that space. Despite many of the stewards being Wycombe fans, they handled the incursion with humour and diffused what could have been a volatile situation. As usual these days, the police did film activities, but even this was done in a non-confrontational way. Contrast the activity at Ashton, where a steward line was drawn allowing the City fans to come to direct confrontation. In that case, it is pretty revealing that the police line was nearly all facing the Rovers fans with batons drawn - even though the miscreants were (largely) behind them. A similar situation at the Mem vs Mansfield - the police line was drawn within 20 yds of the opposing fans, allowing an atmosphere of confrontation, which made matters worse. The lesson; allow incursion onto the pitch in these circumstances, but draw a control line to contain the activity and prevent two groups coming any where near to confrontational contact, i.e. keep them 50 yards apart. |
|
|
|
Post by empirebaypete on Jul 5, 2014 1:56:46 GMT
Actually Padstow I thought the same. Perhaps Mancgas has selective vision. He saw assaults that none of us in the Blackthorn End saw, but obviously missed GBH committed by our finest against a helpless lad. In fact some of our oldest fans were shouting at them to lay off because the lad was helpless in the face of such a concerted assault. If he had suffered a medical attack of some description as a result of the assault we would have several policemen in court for a vicious assault, not 25 people who encroached onto a football pitch. Whilst I defend our police for the awful job they have to carry out, there was just no need for that attack. Be interesting to hear Mancgas' view of the incident. It happened right beneath where he sits. By the way, monster monster is a sh*thead. Just read some of his postings on OTIB. I've written and then not posted a number of times on this thread, because I cannot believe the inequality of the action at the Mansfield game and subsequent arrests compared with the lack of action at Ashton Gate for similar offences. Instead though, I would point to the positive policing and particularly stewarding at Wycombe as a suggestion to Rovers and our police liaison team for the future. I'm not in the police, nor do I have any particular experience, but I would strongly suggest that the mechanism of policing at these 3 games either contributed to or prevented disorder. Expecting a mass incursion on to the pitch at the end of the Wycombe game, the police and stewards simply moved their line from the goal line to the 18 yard line and contained the crowd in that space. Despite many of the stewards being Wycombe fans, they handled the incursion with humour and diffused what could have been a volatile situation. As usual these days, the police did film activities, but even this was done in a non-confrontational way. Contrast the activity at Ashton, where a steward line was drawn allowing the City fans to come to direct confrontation. In that case, it is pretty revealing that the police line was nearly all facing the Rovers fans with batons drawn - even though the miscreants were (largely) behind them. A similar situation at the Mem vs Mansfield - the police line was drawn within 20 yds of the opposing fans, allowing an atmosphere of confrontation, which made matters worse. The lesson; allow incursion onto the pitch in these circumstances, but draw a control line to contain the activity and prevent two groups coming any where near to confrontational contact, i.e. keep them 50 yards apart. Obviously I wasn't at the Mansfield game. However I heard reports there were s**theads in with the Mansfield fans. IF that is true I would have thought that this was a major mistake by stewards / police whoever letting them in. And if they were identified as s**theads once inside I don't see any reason they shouldn't have been removed as a safety issue. If there were s**theads at the Mem on that day I can only see that as part of the problem. |
|
|
|
Post by therealist on Jul 5, 2014 2:39:11 GMT
1. The police made no effort to form a 'line' of officers in front of the Blackthorn End (or any stand) to act as a deterrent. A mistake.
2. The subsequent 'trouble' was minimal, isolated to a few incidents among a crowd of 10,500. I include the couple of hundred offending pitch invaders in that.
3. The police overreaction to said trouble was appalling with police willingly drawing batons and willfully striking a young, unarmed man. Disgraceful policing.
4. These subsequent 'dawn raids' are clearly a waste of time, money and police resources and this isn't really in the public interest IMHO.
Bad policing all round.
|
|
Captain Jayho
Andy Tillson
Straight outta burrington...
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 472 
|
Post by Captain Jayho on Jul 5, 2014 7:19:31 GMT
By the way, monster monster is a sh*thead. Just read some of his postings on OTIB. Correct. Although it's been pretty obvious if you look at his/her/its postings since this forum got updated. Pretty embarrassing really - coming onto a Rovers forum when we're at the lowest ebb in our history purely to try and do a bit of muckraking. Cringeworthy. |
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jul 5, 2014 14:35:02 GMT
I've written and then not posted a number of times on this thread, because I cannot believe the inequality of the action at the Mansfield game and subsequent arrests compared with the lack of action at Ashton Gate for similar offences. Instead though, I would point to the positive policing and particularly stewarding at Wycombe as a suggestion to Rovers and our police liaison team for the future. I'm not in the police, nor do I have any particular experience, but I would strongly suggest that the mechanism of policing at these 3 games either contributed to or prevented disorder. Expecting a mass incursion on to the pitch at the end of the Wycombe game, the police and stewards simply moved their line from the goal line to the 18 yard line and contained the crowd in that space. Despite many of the stewards being Wycombe fans, they handled the incursion with humour and diffused what could have been a volatile situation. As usual these days, the police did film activities, but even this was done in a non-confrontational way. Contrast the activity at Ashton, where a steward line was drawn allowing the City fans to come to direct confrontation. In that case, it is pretty revealing that the police line was nearly all facing the Rovers fans with batons drawn - even though the miscreants were (largely) behind them. A similar situation at the Mem vs Mansfield - the police line was drawn within 20 yds of the opposing fans, allowing an atmosphere of confrontation, which made matters worse. The lesson; allow incursion onto the pitch in these circumstances, but draw a control line to contain the activity and prevent two groups coming any where near to confrontational contact, i.e. keep them 50 yards apart. Obviously I wasn't at the Mansfield game. However I heard reports there were s***heads in with the Mansfield fans. IF that is true I would have thought that this was a major mistake by stewards / police whoever letting them in. And if they were identified as s***heads once inside I don't see any reason they shouldn't have been removed as a safety issue. If there were s***heads at the Mem on that day I can only see that as part of the problem. There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence. |
|
|
|
Post by badbloodash on Jul 5, 2014 15:38:57 GMT
Obviously I wasn't at the Mansfield game. However I heard reports there were s***heads in with the Mansfield fans. IF that is true I would have thought that this was a major mistake by stewards / police whoever letting them in. And if they were identified as s***heads once inside I don't see any reason they shouldn't have been removed as a safety issue. If there were s***heads at the Mem on that day I can only see that as part of the problem. There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence. I was in the car park after the game behind the dry build stand about 30 yards from the Mansfield fans I saw at least 3or 4 s**theads I know in a group of 10 to 15 being kept apart they were also about at the bottom of glos rd /Cheltenham rd during and after the game these are the sort who scout about looking for stragglers to attack unfortunately on this occasion it went wrong big time |
|
brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
|
Post by brizzle on Jul 5, 2014 17:54:41 GMT
Dont be daft padstow, police can do what ever they like at football,and usually get away with itThis reminds me of the time many years ago at Eastville (probably early to mid-1960s), when I was stood at the Tote End by the old tea and pie shop. A young chap with long hair (very fashionable at the time) and a bit scruffy, was making his way from the buffet to his standing spot on the Tote. He was eating a Clarke's pie with relish, and causing no problems at all to anyone at all. He was about six steps down from me, when a policeman stepped between us and pushed the lad full in the back. This caused him to be (literally) projected forward and downward down the terraces, he went one way and his pie went the other. I remember that he looked up at the policeman with a look of pain and astonishment on his face. The policeman offered no explanation for his actions, but just told the lad to get up. I went down to the lad and gave him back his pie, and tried to straighten him up a bit, when the policeman came over to us both and told us both to ''go away.'' By now I was incensed on behalf of the lad and myself, and summoning up every ounce of courage and decorum told him that if he didn't ''go away'' himself that I would report him. He looked at me, and I at him . . . and he eventually walked away, I imagine thinking that discretion was the better part of it all. It was my first experience of police ''over-zealousness,'' but not the last by a long chalk. |
|
|
|
Post by salfordsgas on Jul 5, 2014 18:57:15 GMT
Obviously I wasn't at the Mansfield game. However I heard reports there were s***heads in with the Mansfield fans. IF that is true I would have thought that this was a major mistake by stewards / police whoever letting them in. And if they were identified as s***heads once inside I don't see any reason they shouldn't have been removed as a safety issue. If there were s***heads at the Mem on that day I can only see that as part of the problem. There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence. Bulls***. I was personally stood outside the Welly over an hour after the game when five to six of them were marched past the pub under police escort. Or mabe I just imagined that. |
|
|
|
Post by salfordsgas on Jul 5, 2014 19:05:57 GMT
Actually Padstow I thought the same. Perhaps Mancgas has selective vision. He saw assaults that none of us in the Blackthorn End saw, but obviously missed GBH committed by our finest against a helpless lad. In fact some of our oldest fans were shouting at them to lay off because the lad was helpless in the face of such a concerted assault. If he had suffered a medical attack of some description as a result of the assault we would have several policemen in court for a vicious assault, not 25 people who encroached onto a football pitch. Whilst I defend our police for the awful job they have to carry out, there was just no need for that attack. Be interesting to hear Mancgas' view of the incident. It happened right beneath where he sits. By the way, monster monster is a sh*thead. Just read some of his postings on OTIB. I've written and then not posted a number of times on this thread, because I cannot believe the inequality of the action at the Mansfield game and subsequent arrests compared with the lack of action at Ashton Gate for similar offences. Instead though, I would point to the positive policing and particularly stewarding at Wycombe as a suggestion to Rovers and our police liaison team for the future. I'm not in the police, nor do I have any particular experience, but I would strongly suggest that the mechanism of policing at these 3 games either contributed to or prevented disorder. Expecting a mass incursion on to the pitch at the end of the Wycombe game, the police and stewards simply moved their line from the goal line to the 18 yard line and contained the crowd in that space. Despite many of the stewards being Wycombe fans, they handled the incursion with humour and diffused what could have been a volatile situation. As usual these days, the police did film activities, but even this was done in a non-confrontational way. Contrast the activity at Ashton, where a steward line was drawn allowing the City fans to come to direct confrontation. In that case, it is pretty revealing that the police line was nearly all facing the Rovers fans with batons drawn - even though the miscreants were (largely) behind them. A similar situation at the Mem vs Mansfield - the police line was drawn within 20 yds of the opposing fans, allowing an atmosphere of confrontation, which made matters worse. The lesson; allow incursion onto the pitch in these circumstances, but draw a control line to contain the activity and prevent two groups coming any where near to confrontational contact, i.e. keep them 50 yards apart. The police and stewards under action at Trashton has been legendary for decades, they have got away with pitch invasions and assualts on our fans and players time and time again with no visible reaction whatsoever. Moving back to the Mansfied game, I am not going to defend the actions of some Rovers fans, yes there WERE s**theads in the away end but that should not have been the focus of our anger, Box 1 should have been the target. However the police OTT response was bang out of order and is not defensible whatsoever. Let's not forget the old bill have plently of forrm for this, just ask the family of Ian Tomlinson who was beaten to the ground by the Met Police for no reason. Frankly the copper who was battering the Rovers fan on the pitch should be going through the courts on ABH charges, let's just imagine the public outcry if the roles had been reversed. I was brought up to respect the police but frankly I have seen so many disgusting acts of police brutality over the years I have no respect for them whatsoever. |
|
cobra
Joined: July 2014
Posts: 1
|
Post by cobra on Jul 5, 2014 20:41:56 GMT
I know we keep going on about the pitch invasion at Aston gate but how is it any different to our invasion in 2007.
I think we are all trying to deflect everything and should look closer to home
|
|
|
|
Post by Curly Wurly on Jul 5, 2014 21:45:13 GMT
I know we keep going on about the pitch invasion at Aston gate but how is it any different to our invasion in 2007. I think we are all trying to deflect everything and should look closer to home They were massively different. If I didn't think you were a s***head troll, I woild bother to get the video evidence to show you how in 2007 there was a general meandering towards the City fans, which did not get close to them. Last year there were hundreds of city fans allowed to go straight to confront the Rovers fans, within yards. There is a clear difference between the way Rovers are policed compared to City. It is obvious to all who care to look. |
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jul 6, 2014 0:03:27 GMT
There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence. I was in the car park after the game behind the dry build stand about 30 yards from the Mansfield fans I saw at least 3or 4 s***heads I know in a group of 10 to 15 being kept apart they were also about at the bottom of glos rd /Cheltenham rd during and after the game these are the sort who scout about looking for stragglers to attack unfortunately on this occasion it went wrong big time Look I'm going on what several Mansfield fans who were in the away end said after the game, they were regulars know most of their own and also said they would have noticed if anything unpleasant was going on and would have got any non Mansfield fans removed. I don't doubt what you saw but were they actually in the away end or just loitering trying to make trouble If of course you were actually in the away end yourself and saw them then I'm happy to accept your word  |
|
|
|
Post by therealist on Jul 6, 2014 0:15:51 GMT
I was in the car park after the game behind the dry build stand about 30 yards from the Mansfield fans I saw at least 3or 4 s***heads I know in a group of 10 to 15 being kept apart they were also about at the bottom of glos rd /Cheltenham rd during and after the game these are the sort who scout about looking for stragglers to attack unfortunately on this occasion it went wrong big time Look I'm going on what several Mansfield fans who were in the away end said after the game, they were regulars know most of their own and also said they would have noticed if anything unpleasant was going on and would have got any non Mansfield fans removed. I don't doubt what you saw but were they actually in the away end or just loitering trying to make trouble If of course you were actually in the away end yourself and saw them then I'm happy to accept your word Yeah, because a few Mansfield fans are going to recognise every face in a 700-strong away support.  |
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jul 6, 2014 0:20:21 GMT
There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence. Bulls***. I was personally stood outside the Welly over an hour after the game when five to six of them were marched past the pub under police escort. Or mabe I just imagined that. If you were actually in the away end at the Mansfield and actually saw them then I will accept your word, I'm just going on what several Mansfield fans said on the forum after the game that they saw nor heard ANY sh!theads in with them. Being on the Gloucester Road or in the Mem car park is NOT the same as actually being in the away end not unless I have a very active imagination. |
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jul 6, 2014 0:24:05 GMT
Look I'm going on what several Mansfield fans who were in the away end said after the game, they were regulars know most of their own and also said they would have noticed if anything unpleasant was going on and would have got any non Mansfield fans removed. I don't doubt what you saw but were they actually in the away end or just loitering trying to make trouble If of course you were actually in the away end yourself and saw them then I'm happy to accept your word Yeah, because a few Mansfield fans are going to recognise every face in a 700-strong away support. So did you actually see any sh!theads in the away end then, as I've already said I'm very happy to accept your word if you did |
|
|
|
Post by therealist on Jul 6, 2014 0:28:44 GMT
Yeah, because a few Mansfield fans are going to recognise every face in a 700-strong away support. So did you actually see any sh!theads in the away end then, as I've already said I'm very happy to accept your word if you did There was a group of them being surrounded by police in the car park. A group of them also witnessed by others getting marched past the Welly pub. But, i'm sure the few Mansfield fans know better. |
|
|
|
Post by gasheadblues on Jul 6, 2014 0:31:30 GMT
Yeah, because a few Mansfield fans are going to recognise every face in a 700-strong away support. So did you actually see any sh!theads in the away end then, as I've already said I'm very happy to accept your word if you did I saw the fokkers - don't have their names and addresses though. |
|
|
|
Post by empirebaypete on Jul 6, 2014 0:32:43 GMT
Obviously I wasn't at the Mansfield game. However I heard reports there were s***heads in with the Mansfield fans. IF that is true I would have thought that this was a major mistake by stewards / police whoever letting them in. And if they were identified as s***heads once inside I don't see any reason they shouldn't have been removed as a safety issue. If there were s***heads at the Mem on that day I can only see that as part of the problem. There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence.
I purposely put IF in my post. Perhaps next time I'll add ALLEGEDLY too, if that would help.
I would be surprised if any got into the ground to be honest.
Edit to say the reason I'd be surprised is I doubt very much the cops would let them in. In my younger days I tried to get into the East End. I was with a s**thead and a gashead. The s**t were playing Manchester Utd. My Gasheasd mate and myself were turned away for being Gasheads by the cops on the gate. We had no colours on, they just picked us out. In those days I used to stand in the Tote End. I wouldn't have thought I'd sort of register on the police radars though. By the way, we then went up the open end and stood with the United fans.
|
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jul 6, 2014 0:48:40 GMT
So did you actually see any sh!theads in the away end then, as I've already said I'm very happy to accept your word if you did There was a group of them being surrounded by police in the car park. A group of them also witnessed by others getting marched past the Welly pub. But, i'm sure the few Mansfield fans know better.
Well they were the ones who were actually in the away end, weren't they and there's no need for them to deny their presence ? No one is disputing that there may have been sh!theads loitering around trying to make trouble but the suggestion has been made that the pitch invasion was partly caused by the number of sh!theads in the away end but there is no evidence to suggest there were any at least by those who were actually in there i.e the Mansfield fans. So you personally didn't see any in the away end then is all I'm asking ? |
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jul 6, 2014 0:52:17 GMT
There were NO Sh!theads in the away end, several Mansfield fans came on the forum after the game to confirm it or else they would have asked stewards to remove them, even our fans next to the away end said they heard no chanting or anything so stop trying to blame our fans behaviour on a non existent presence.
I purposely put IF in my post. Perhaps next time I'll add ALLEGEDLY too, if that would help.
I would be surprised if any got into the ground to be honest.
Edit to say the reason I'd be surprised is I doubt very much the cops would let them in. In my younger days I tried to get into the East End. I was with a s***head and a gashead. The s*** were playing Manchester Utd. My Gasheasd mate and myself were turned away for being Gasheads by the cops on the gate. We had no colours on, they just picked us out. In those days I used to stand in the Tote End. I wouldn't have thought I'd sort of register on the police radars though. By the way, we then went up the open end and stood with the United fans.
Well that's cleared that up then, just put a bigger 'if' next time please, my eyes aren't what they used to be :oops: |
|
