faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
|
Post by faggotygas on Jan 26, 2016 13:11:36 GMT
As you imply he definitely needs some game time away from the expectations at the Mem to improve in his own time and learn the game more, so I agree with you that the loan is therefore a good idea.
I don't think that's the implication really. My feeling is that going to Hartlepool at this stage in the season is unlikely to make very much of a difference one way or the other. In fact, I honestly feel Ellis would have been better off going on loan to a Conference contender rather than playing for a disfunctional side in a relegation battle under a manager who is notorious for throwing his players under the bus to protect himself. I think Ellis is still young enough to go through a few more peaks and troughs - when it comes to the relative success of lower league players a lot of it is luck and chemistry. In the right team Ellis could probably be a very effective lower league performer - he's already shown he is capable of being an impact player but the leap to regular performer is a tough one mentally and technically. My main interest is Rovers though and I remain surprised that we chose to send an attacking squad player out on loan at this stage in the season. It's really not a massive deal though - either way I don't think it will make or break either Rovers season or Harrison's career. It's just peculiar timing is all. If this had happened sometime before Christmas I could understand it perfectly from the point of view of both parties - with 20 games to go, less so. Now he's injured anyway so it has become even less relevant. I know you weren't trying to make that argument really, I was just twisting your words around for fun. Also in doing so, I was hoping to show how the argument for/against him going out on loan isn't as clear cut as some are making out.
For me, if Ellis is going to make the leap forward, he needs proper game time at as high a level as he can handle, and he ain't getting that at Rovers.
|
|
irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
|
Post by irishrover on Jan 26, 2016 13:31:29 GMT
I don't think that's the implication really. My feeling is that going to Hartlepool at this stage in the season is unlikely to make very much of a difference one way or the other. In fact, I honestly feel Ellis would have been better off going on loan to a Conference contender rather than playing for a disfunctional side in a relegation battle under a manager who is notorious for throwing his players under the bus to protect himself. I think Ellis is still young enough to go through a few more peaks and troughs - when it comes to the relative success of lower league players a lot of it is luck and chemistry. In the right team Ellis could probably be a very effective lower league performer - he's already shown he is capable of being an impact player but the leap to regular performer is a tough one mentally and technically. My main interest is Rovers though and I remain surprised that we chose to send an attacking squad player out on loan at this stage in the season. It's really not a massive deal though - either way I don't think it will make or break either Rovers season or Harrison's career. It's just peculiar timing is all. If this had happened sometime before Christmas I could understand it perfectly from the point of view of both parties - with 20 games to go, less so. Now he's injured anyway so it has become even less relevant. I know you weren't trying to make that argument really, I was just twisting your words around for fun. Also in doing so, I was hoping to show how the argument for/against him going out on loan isn't as clear cut as some are making out.
For me, if Ellis is going to make the leap forward, he needs proper game time at as high a level as he can handle, and he ain't getting that at Rovers.
That's definitely true, at some point you have to make that transition to be a regular player - it's not the general principle I object to so much as the timing. But to me it's fairly clear that Harrison will be moving on at the end of the season anyway and that's when it will be sink or swim for him. I'm pretty sure he'll get a chance somewhere - his record is good enough and he clearly has potential. I honestly think what matters for someone like Harrison more than the level he plays at is the type of team he's in and I just don't see how he has much chance in a Ronnie Moore side. On the other argument going on here. It's the assumption of a linear relationship between 'going out late' and struggling on the pitch that I have issues with - as well as people making big insinuations without having any real evidence. I don't think anyone is saying that Harrison is going out and downing 5 pints every night - just that he enjoys a night out. Well unless we're at the stage where fans feel they can monitor exactly what a player does 24/7 (and sadly I'm not sure we're that far away from that...) then there are some massive leaps of judgement being made about what this entails with only the bare minimum of circumstantial evidence and I'm not at all comfortable with that. We have no actual evidence at all that what Harrison does in his spare time has any deterimental impact on his football. Also, it's a ridiculous dichotomy somebody has drawn between 'quiet, deeply professional Lockyer' and 'wild party animal Harrison' based on absolutely nothing other than their supposed bedtimes. I imagine in reality they probably have far more in common than not. For all we know Harrison is going for a quiet night out in order to get away from Lockyer's utter debauchery and that Lockyer would be playing Centre Back for Real Madrid right now if it wasn't for his agrophobia linked to crippling addictions to internet bridge and disinfectant sniffing - I have about as much evidence to claim that as anyone else has for Harrison's supposed indescretions.
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,309
|
Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 26, 2016 14:02:44 GMT
Ellis and Tom share digs together.
Guess which one prefers partying til the early hours and which one has early nights and visits his parents in Wales regularly?
Tom is a sensible lad and seems to be going about things in the right manner and looking after himself. Ellis on the other hand seems to be letting any ability go to waste.
I think Marcus Stewart is the best Rovers player I have ever seen. He wasn't renowned for early nights and sensible behaviour. Neither was Georgie Best
|
|
kingswood Polak
Without music life would be a mistake
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,309
|
Post by kingswood Polak on Jan 26, 2016 14:08:09 GMT
I know you weren't trying to make that argument really, I was just twisting your words around for fun. Also in doing so, I was hoping to show how the argument for/against him going out on loan isn't as clear cut as some are making out.
For me, if Ellis is going to make the leap forward, he needs proper game time at as high a level as he can handle, and he ain't getting that at Rovers.
That's definitely true, at some point you have to make that transition to be a regular player - it's not the general principle I object to so much as the timing. But to me it's fairly clear that Harrison will be moving on at the end of the season anyway and that's when it will be sink or swim for him. I'm pretty sure he'll get a chance somewhere - his record is good enough and he clearly has potential. I honestly think what matters for someone like Harrison more than the level he plays at is the type of team he's in and I just don't see how he has much chance in a Ronnie Moore side. On the other argument going on here. It's the assumption of a linear relationship between 'going out late' and struggling on the pitch that I have issues with - as well as people making big insinuations without having any real evidence. I don't think anyone is saying that Harrison is going out and downing 5 pints every night - just that he enjoys a night out. Well unless we're at the stage where fans feel they can monitor exactly what a player does 24/7 (and sadly I'm not sure we're that far away from that...) then there are some massive leaps of judgement being made about what this entails with only the bare minimum of circumstantial evidence and I'm not at all comfortable with that. We have no actual evidence at all that what Harrison does in his spare time has any deterimental impact on his football. Also, it's a ridiculous dichotomy somebody has drawn between 'quiet, deeply professional Lockyer' and 'wild party animal Harrison' based on absolutely nothing other than their supposed bedtimes. I imagine in reality they probably have far more in common than not. For all we know Harrison is going for a quiet night out in order to get away from Lockyer's utter debauchery and that Lockyer would be playing Centre Back for Real Madrid right now if it wasn't for his agrophobia linked to crippling addictions to internet bridge and disinfectant sniffing - I have about as much evidence to claim that as anyone else has for Harrison's supposed indescretions. Unfortunately there are a number of people who seem to stalk Ellis & close to home too. I don't think he will ever get the backing & support but that's just my opinion.
|
|
Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
|
Post by Bridgeman on Jan 26, 2016 21:30:42 GMT
I know you weren't trying to make that argument really, I was just twisting your words around for fun. Also in doing so, I was hoping to show how the argument for/against him going out on loan isn't as clear cut as some are making out.
For me, if Ellis is going to make the leap forward, he needs proper game time at as high a level as he can handle, and he ain't getting that at Rovers.
That's definitely true, at some point you have to make that transition to be a regular player - it's not the general principle I object to so much as the timing. But to me it's fairly clear that Harrison will be moving on at the end of the season anyway and that's when it will be sink or swim for him. I'm pretty sure he'll get a chance somewhere - his record is good enough and he clearly has potential. I honestly think what matters for someone like Harrison more than the level he plays at is the type of team he's in and I just don't see how he has much chance in a Ronnie Moore side. On the other argument going on here. It's the assumption of a linear relationship between 'going out late' and struggling on the pitch that I have issues with - as well as people making big insinuations without having any real evidence. I don't think anyone is saying that Harrison is going out and downing 5 pints every night - just that he enjoys a night out. Well unless we're at the stage where fans feel they can monitor exactly what a player does 24/7 (and sadly I'm not sure we're that far away from that...) then there are some massive leaps of judgement being made about what this entails with only the bare minimum of circumstantial evidence and I'm not at all comfortable with that. We have no actual evidence at all that what Harrison does in his spare time has any deterimental impact on his football. Also, it's a ridiculous dichotomy somebody has drawn between 'quiet, deeply professional Lockyer' and 'wild party animal Harrison' based on absolutely nothing other than their supposed bedtimes. I imagine in reality they probably have far more in common than not. For all we know Harrison is going for a quiet night out in order t o get away from Lockyer's utter debauchery and that Lockyer would be playing Centre Back for Real Madrid right now if it wasn't for his agrophobia linked to crippling addictions to internet bridge and disinfectant sniffing - I have about as much evidence to claim that as anyone else has for Harrison's supposed indescretions. Blimey no wonder he performs so much better than Ellis if that's what he's up to.......
|
|
faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
|
Post by faggotygas on Jan 27, 2016 12:19:26 GMT
That's definitely true, at some point you have to make that transition to be a regular player - it's not the general principle I object to so much as the timing. But to me it's fairly clear that Harrison will be moving on at the end of the season anyway and that's when it will be sink or swim for him. I'm pretty sure he'll get a chance somewhere - his record is good enough and he clearly has potential. I honestly think what matters for someone like Harrison more than the level he plays at is the type of team he's in and I just don't see how he has much chance in a Ronnie Moore side. On the other argument going on here. It's the assumption of a linear relationship between 'going out late' and struggling on the pitch that I have issues with - as well as people making big insinuations without having any real evidence. I don't think anyone is saying that Harrison is going out and downing 5 pints every night - just that he enjoys a night out. Well unless we're at the stage where fans feel they can monitor exactly what a player does 24/7 (and sadly I'm not sure we're that far away from that...) then there are some massive leaps of judgement being made about what this entails with only the bare minimum of circumstantial evidence and I'm not at all comfortable with that. We have no actual evidence at all that what Harrison does in his spare time has any deterimental impact on his football. Also, it's a ridiculous dichotomy somebody has drawn between 'quiet, deeply professional Lockyer' and 'wild party animal Harrison' based on absolutely nothing other than their supposed bedtimes. I imagine in reality they probably have far more in common than not. For all we know Harrison is going for a quiet night out in order t o get away from Lockyer's utter debauchery and that Lockyer would be playing Centre Back for Real Madrid right now if it wasn't for his agrophobia linked to crippling addictions to internet bridge and disinfectant sniffing - I have about as much evidence to claim that as anyone else has for Harrison's supposed indescretions. Blimey no wonder he performs so much better than Ellis if that's what he's up to....... Indeed, I doubt many people are aware of this about Tom. I'd better report this rumour out of context on as many platforms as I can find. Should make the Evening Post by Thursday, Daily Mail by Friday
|
|