Bridgeman
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Post by Bridgeman on Oct 3, 2015 21:25:36 GMT
Well England out after a poor display against a very good Australian team
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Oct 4, 2015 12:06:27 GMT
Grim performance, the last world cup cost the coach his job, and I think it will this time too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 15:13:22 GMT
Grim performance, the last world cup cost the coach his job, and I think it will this time too. Impossible for him to keep his job after what's happened in the last 8 days. He should take a look at Dick Advocaat and learn how to do the decent thing, regardless of what length contract he has. |
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Oct 4, 2015 18:37:22 GMT
I actually never thought England were as bad as the media portrayed in the last world cup- for a start we won every pool game. There was a real media backlash about the antics over in New Zealand, which I think ultimately did for Johnson, and helped to usher in the 'nice guy' Lancaster/Robshaw era.
The RFU ummed and ahhed about Lancaster for a good while before he got the job, they obviously had their doubts then, which have been borne out by the fact that we consistently lose the big games. He (and Robshaw) come across as decent blokes, and not being allowed to select the best players certainly hasn't helped, but I can't help thinking things would be very much better if Johnson could have been persuaded to stay.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Oct 4, 2015 18:51:20 GMT
I don't really understand the mentality of English Rugby. I support Wales but am in England Football and Cricket (which actually technically is the England and Wales Cricket team anyway) fan due to where I received the influences as a kid. In English cricket and football the default position of fans seems to be fatalism followed by brief periods of OTT hope. Most English cricket fans no unreasonably thought we were going to get stuffed by the Aussies this summer, most English football fans seem to expect little of Roy's boys next June. But English Rugby seems to suffer from a surfeit of realism. Nearly every England fan I spoke to before the World Cup would be in raptures about how they were going to win the group and go deep in the tournament. I spoke to very few who seemed to think they would struggle to get out the group.
I found that a bit weird. Don't get me wrong, I didn't particularly like the chances of a slightly over the hill Wales's either in a horrendous group (surely RWC has to rethink how they redraw this - all 3 of these teams should be in the Quarters really) and the Aussies have been very up and down but England fans seemed by far the most optimistic, even more than the Aussies I spoke to which is very rare, and I just don't understand what that was based on other than home advantage. These were 3 evenly matched but flawed teams - if you played the tournament 3 times you could probably get 3 different combinations of qualifiers. But, in the last 4 years England has consistently come up short in the big games. They've had one off performances in the Six Nations but they haven't bought home the bacon over the course of a tournament, they've flattered to deceive against the Southern sides etc. I couldn't understand why English fans were so optimistic based on recent performances - they've been OK, but not 90s/early 00s dominant. They lost to Wales in a turgid battle of a game which could of gone either way and in which 2 errors on either side led to tries. Then they've been outplayed/come out cold vs what looks like a very good Aussie team. We'll see just how good the Aussies are after next week - if they're that dominant against Wales as well I think you can probably say they're real contenders as opposed to England just going rabbit in headlights (which is what I thought of the first half). But it was the blind optimism from so many beforehand I couldn't quite get my head round beforehand and it seems even stranger now. |
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Oct 4, 2015 19:19:21 GMT
I don't really understand the mentality of English Rugby. I support Wales but am in England Football and Cricket (which actually technically is the England and Wales Cricket team anyway) fan due to where I received the influences as a kid. In English cricket and football the default position of fans seems to be fatalism followed by brief periods of OTT hope. Most English cricket fans no unreasonably thought we were going to get stuffed by the Aussies this summer, most English football fans seem to expect little of Roy's boys next June. But English Rugby seems to suffer from a surfeit of realism. Nearly every England fan I spoke to before the World Cup would be in raptures about how they were going to win the group and go deep in the tournament. I spoke to very few who seemed to think they would struggle to get out the group.
I found that a bit weird. Don't get me wrong, I didn't particularly like the chances of a slightly over the hill Wales's either in a horrendous group (surely RWC has to rethink how they redraw this - all 3 of these teams should be in the Quarters really) and the Aussies have been very up and down but England fans seemed by far the most optimistic, even more than the Aussies I spoke to which is very rare, and I just don't understand what that was based on other than home advantage. These were 3 evenly matched but flawed teams - if you played the tournament 3 times you could probably get 3 different combinations of qualifiers. But, in the last 4 years England has consistently come up short in the big games. They've had one off performances in the Six Nations but they haven't bought home the bacon over the course of a tournament, they've flattered to deceive against the Southern sides etc. I couldn't understand why English fans were so optimistic based on recent performances - they've been OK, but not 90s/early 00s dominant. They lost to Wales in a turgid battle of a game which could of gone either way and in which 2 errors on either side led to tries. Then they've been outplayed/come out cold vs what looks like a very good Aussie team. We'll see just how good the Aussies are after next week - if they're that dominant against Wales as well I think you can probably say they're real contenders as opposed to England just going rabbit in headlights (which is what I thought of the first half). But it was the blind optimism from so many beforehand I couldn't quite get my head round beforehand and it seems even stranger now. I think most England fans under estimated Australia, on our way to the game yesterday we were saying out some of the names in the Australian side jump out as very, very good players, but none of Englands really did. I did however, still think we would win the group, but that was probably based on, as you say, blind optimism. I wonder how many people with tickets for the Uruguay game will not bother going. |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Oct 4, 2015 21:05:58 GMT
I don't really understand the mentality of English Rugby. I support Wales but am in England Football and Cricket (which actually technically is the England and Wales Cricket team anyway) fan due to where I received the influences as a kid. In English cricket and football the default position of fans seems to be fatalism followed by brief periods of OTT hope. Most English cricket fans no unreasonably thought we were going to get stuffed by the Aussies this summer, most English football fans seem to expect little of Roy's boys next June. But English Rugby seems to suffer from a surfeit of realism. Nearly every England fan I spoke to before the World Cup would be in raptures about how they were going to win the group and go deep in the tournament. I spoke to very few who seemed to think they would struggle to get out the group.
I found that a bit weird. Don't get me wrong, I didn't particularly like the chances of a slightly over the hill Wales's either in a horrendous group (surely RWC has to rethink how they redraw this - all 3 of these teams should be in the Quarters really) and the Aussies have been very up and down but England fans seemed by far the most optimistic, even more than the Aussies I spoke to which is very rare, and I just don't understand what that was based on other than home advantage. These were 3 evenly matched but flawed teams - if you played the tournament 3 times you could probably get 3 different combinations of qualifiers. But, in the last 4 years England has consistently come up short in the big games. They've had one off performances in the Six Nations but they haven't bought home the bacon over the course of a tournament, they've flattered to deceive against the Southern sides etc. I couldn't understand why English fans were so optimistic based on recent performances - they've been OK, but not 90s/early 00s dominant. They lost to Wales in a turgid battle of a game which could of gone either way and in which 2 errors on either side led to tries. Then they've been outplayed/come out cold vs what looks like a very good Aussie team. We'll see just how good the Aussies are after next week - if they're that dominant against Wales as well I think you can probably say they're real contenders as opposed to England just going rabbit in headlights (which is what I thought of the first half). But it was the blind optimism from so many beforehand I couldn't quite get my head round beforehand and it seems even stranger now. I think most England fans under estimated Australia, on our way to the game yesterday we were saying out some of the names in the Australian side jump out as very, very good players, but none of Englands really did. I did however, still think we would win the group, but that was probably based on, as you say, blind optimism. I wonder how many people with tickets for the Uruguay game will not bother going. I just find the comparison in mentality to be interesting. I don't know whether it's just because England had such a prolonged run of success fairly recently or whether it's just something about the sport in general but it stands in contrast to the usual grumpy, overly pessimistic English sports fan!
I think that Uruguay game is going to look like a nightmare to the RFU now. I suppose the idea was that a resurgent England that had captured the support of the nation would be going to Manchester to absolutely smash Uruguay and book their place in the quarter finals thereby showcasing Rugby as a national game. As it is, a bedraggled England are going to be playing a meaningless game against minnows while up the road the Superleague Grand Final is taking place. I'm sure Rugby League will make the most of it in this part of the World - there was quite a lot of comments about how their showpiece risked being overshadowed by the World Cup; not anymore. |
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Bridgeman
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Post by Bridgeman on Oct 5, 2015 0:55:28 GMT
I'm not really sure you can compare the Rugby (Union) World Cup with the Super League Grand Final however good that one off game might be and it is a fantastic show piece for the sport.
Most pool games have been near sell outs including Wembley, the Olympic Stadium, The Millenium Stadium, Twickenham, St James' Park, The Etihad, King Power as well as other other smaller rugby grounds etc.
You wouldn't get that with Rugby League.
The English RFU have done a fantastic job in marketing the event but with that came the expectation to many England fans their team would do well.
However, the more realistic and less arrogant England fans like me never had that jingoistic expectation but had a more considered approach to our chances in the competition and knowledge of the players at our disposal.
Quite why the RFU refuses to let English qualified players in France play for their Country is beyond me, it's a global game why cut off your nose to spite your face.
I'm not saying having any of those players like Stefan Armitage, Dylan Armitage, plus Nick Abendannon (European player of the year) would have made the team more successful but why tie your coaches hands behind his back.I never heard the reason why Dylan Hartley was left out ?
The decision to play a rookie Sam Burgess instead of Henry Slade was baffling as was the dropping of George Ford.
It appeared shambolic at best and in Wales where I've lived for nearly fifty years caused us English to be described in some places as arrogant cnuts because of the over optimistic media reporting in the English press but used against us in the Welsh press.
Against Australia the expectation was overwhelming and the England team having not recovered from the Welsh game just froze against a really good Aussie team. I mean even my Welsh children and grandchildren were wearing Aussie colours and supporting them.
I'm sure however, unlike Rovers there will be a proper review as to why England failed so abysmally, heads will unfortunately have to roll.
It's not going to be a good place to be in the office in the morning.....lol UTG !
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Oct 5, 2015 5:38:21 GMT
I'm not really sure you can compare the Rugby (Union) World Cup with the Super League Grand Final however good that one off game might be and it is a fantastic show piece for the sport. Most pool games have been near sell outs including Wembley, the Olympic Stadium, The Millenium Stadium, Twickenham, St James' Park, The Etihad, King Power as well as other other smaller rugby grounds etc. You wouldn't get that with Rugby League. The English RFU have done a fantastic job in marketing the event but with that came the expectation to many England fans their team would do well. However, the more realistic and less arrogant England fans like me never had that jingoistic expectation but had a more considered approach to our chances in the competition and knowledge of the players at our disposal. Quite why the RFU refuses to let English qualified players in France play for their Country is beyond me, it's a global game why cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm not saying having any of those players like Stefan Armitage, Dylan Armitage, plus Nick Abendannon (European player of the year) would have made the team more successful but why tie your coaches hands behind his back. I never heard the reason why Dylan Hartley was left out ?The decision to play a rookie Sam Burgess instead of Henry Slade was baffling as was the dropping of George Ford. It appeared shambolic at best and in Wales where I've lived for nearly fifty years caused us English to be described in some places as arrogant cnuts because of the over optimistic media reporting in the English press but used against us in the Welsh press. Against Australia the expectation was overwhelming and the England team having not recovered from the Welsh game just froze against a really good Aussie team. I mean even my Welsh children and grandchildren were wearing Aussie colours and supporting them. I'm sure however, unlike Rovers there will be a proper review as to why England failed so abysmally, heads will unfortunately have to roll. It's not going to be a good place to be in the office in the morning.....lol UTG ! I think Hartley is now considered 'bad news', in much the same way Manu Tuilagi and Danny Care are. As for the overseas rule, that really has to change (something Australia realised). I assume the idea is to keep the league strong, a very valiant idea, but just not practical in this day and age. Imagine what international football would be like with such a rule! |
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Oct 5, 2015 14:32:40 GMT
I'm not really sure you can compare the Rugby (Union) World Cup with the Super League Grand Final however good that one off game might be and it is a fantastic show piece for the sport. Most pool games have been near sell outs including Wembley, the Olympic Stadium, The Millenium Stadium, Twickenham, St James' Park, The Etihad, King Power as well as other other smaller rugby grounds etc. You wouldn't get that with Rugby League. The English RFU have done a fantastic job in marketing the event but with that came the expectation to many England fans their team would do well. However, the more realistic and less arrogant England fans like me never had that jingoistic expectation but had a more considered approach to our chances in the competition and knowledge of the players at our disposal. Quite why the RFU refuses to let English qualified players in France play for their Country is beyond me, it's a global game why cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm not saying having any of those players like Stefan Armitage, Dylan Armitage, plus Nick Abendannon (European player of the year) would have made the team more successful but why tie your coaches hands behind his back.I never heard the reason why Dylan Hartley was left out ? The decision to play a rookie Sam Burgess instead of Henry Slade was baffling as was the dropping of George Ford. It appeared shambolic at best and in Wales where I've lived for nearly fifty years caused us English to be described in some places as arrogant cnuts because of the over optimistic media reporting in the English press but used against us in the Welsh press. Against Australia the expectation was overwhelming and the England team having not recovered from the Welsh game just froze against a really good Aussie team. I mean even my Welsh children and grandchildren were wearing Aussie colours and supporting them. I'm sure however, unlike Rovers there will be a proper review as to why England failed so abysmally, heads will unfortunately have to roll. It's not going to be a good place to be in the office in the morning.....lol UTG ! To be fair any Welsh Rugby surely had to be cheering on Australia on Saturday anyway because otherwise it put Wales on the brink elimination as the group situation was ridiculous and I don't think any Welsh fan really likes the chances of a banged up Wales v Australia or South Africa but they do stand a better chance against Aus and if they could sneak past them then a very unlikely Semi-Final place beckons. Though knowing Wales in World Cup's they'll probably beat Australia and then lose to Japan in the Quarters! What I meant by the RFU's issue with the Manchester game is that there was a big perception that they had deliberately put an England game on in Manchester on the night of the Superleague Grand Final to park their tanks of Rugby League's lawn. No courtesy consultation was carried out. There was a lot of anger about that decision in this part of the World - some Rugby League fans are boycotting the World Cup because of it - it was seen as disrespectful and an antagonistic move by the RFU. So it was a bit controversial to start with but in the circumstances it looks like a damp squib really. The World Cup has been a great success so far but it will be interesting to see if it keeps the same level of front page exposure without England in it. |
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brizzle
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Post by brizzle on Oct 5, 2015 15:59:04 GMT
I don't really understand the mentality of English Rugby. I support Wales but am in England Football and Cricket (which actually technically is the England and Wales Cricket team anyway) fan due to where I received the influences as a kid. In English cricket and football the default position of fans seems to be fatalism followed by brief periods of OTT hope. Most English cricket fans no unreasonably thought we were going to get stuffed by the Aussies this summer, most English football fans seem to expect little of Roy's boys next June. But English Rugby seems to suffer from a surfeit of realism. Nearly every England fan I spoke to before the World Cup would be in raptures about how they were going to win the group and go deep in the tournament. I spoke to very few who seemed to think they would struggle to get out the group.
I found that a bit weird. Don't get me wrong, I didn't particularly like the chances of a slightly over the hill Wales's either in a horrendous group (surely RWC has to rethink how they redraw this - all 3 of these teams should be in the Quarters really) and the Aussies have been very up and down but England fans seemed by far the most optimistic, even more than the Aussies I spoke to which is very rare, and I just don't understand what that was based on other than home advantage. These were 3 evenly matched but flawed teams - if you played the tournament 3 times you could probably get 3 different combinations of qualifiers. But, in the last 4 years England has consistently come up short in the big games. They've had one off performances in the Six Nations but they haven't bought home the bacon over the course of a tournament, they've flattered to deceive against the Southern sides etc. I couldn't understand why English fans were so optimistic based on recent performances - they've been OK, but not 90s/early 00s dominant. They lost to Wales in a turgid battle of a game which could of gone either way and in which 2 errors on either side led to tries. Then they've been outplayed/come out cold vs what looks like a very good Aussie team. We'll see just how good the Aussies are after next week - if they're that dominant against Wales as well I think you can probably say they're real contenders as opposed to England just going rabbit in headlights (which is what I thought of the first half). But it was the blind optimism from so many beforehand I couldn't quite get my head round beforehand and it seems even stranger now. . . . and that is the nub of England's problems, in a nutshell. But the reasons behind it all all is well-disguised by the internal politics and befuddled thinking of the England RFU. The team failed in the last Rugby World Cup, and thoroughly disgraced themselves in the process (mostly off the field), sacked their rookie manager and replaced him with another rookie manager at international level. This was put down at the time, to the wishes of the players. When you look at the size of the England RFU, both in monetary terms and support, you begin to realise how short-sighted the ruling body's decisions have been. I mean no disrespect to Stuart Lancaster and his team who have all performed to the utmost of their abilities, but it has clearly not been enough for the past four years, and most definitely not enough in this present World Cup. I have longed to see England play a much faster and more fluid game, but instead we have been subjected to the same old forward grind, which in fairness has been fairly successful but has always seen us fall short. But I think that in the present World Cup we have fallen short because we failed to follow through with the pre-ordained plan, which was the inclusion of George Ford at the expense of Owen Farrell. Both fine players by the way, but the plan appeared to be that Ford was No 1, but we changed horses in mid-stream with a quite disastrous result . And it is the same with several other aspects of tactical thinking, that when we were under pressure evaporated. I firmly believe that England do have enough of the right calibre of player, but how they are used seems to be the problem that we have. I can't help but compare the England rugby and football teams when it comes to crunch time, they both have every opportunity to do well, but both sadly fail. Is it coaching, or is it down to the desire of the players themselves? Do they they have the required drive, or are they content to sit back and take the monetary rewards that are on offer? All that I can say, is that England is more often than not disappointed. But as regards the RFU, they should begin looking for a foreign coach as soon as the present tournament is over . . . as they should have done four years ago. The present crop of English-born managers will not bring success to the England team in my opinion, I've already read articles linking Dean Richards name with the job. Can you imagine that, after all he's a ''convicted'' cheat. We need a complete clear-out and a re-vamp of the system. Whether this will come about is doubtful though, what did Will Carling call them again? ''Old farts'' wasn't it? And I don't think that too much has changed in the meantime neither, but it undoubtedly needs to if we are to have any chance of matching the top teams in the top tournaments. The fact is that Wales, Scotland and Ireland have all employed foreign coaches . . . and their results speak for themselves, even Scotland. But to return to Australia's performance, they played the 80 minutes on Saturday exactly how I would wish to see England play the game, and good luck to 'em for the rest of the tournament I say . . . through gritted teeth though.  |
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Rex
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Post by Rex on Oct 5, 2015 16:31:47 GMT
I don't think Johnson was sacked, although you could say he jumped before he was pushed. I would seriously consider handing him back the reins. As for a foreign coach, I wonder if we could persuade Michael Cheika after he just taught us a lesson!
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brizzle
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Post by brizzle on Oct 5, 2015 18:01:23 GMT
Whether Martin Johnson was sacked (or not), is a moot point really. The fact is that he had days left of his contract, and as he said at the time "I have a choice at the moment. If I hadn't made that decision someone may have made it for me." So . . . ?
But what the real concern for me at the moment is the present coach and his staff, whose position is much more transparent than Martin Johnson's was four years ago. They are all under contract to the end of the 2019/20 season, taking them through to the 2019 World Cup in Japan. This is Stuart Lancaster, forwards coach Graham Rowntree, backs coach Andy Farrell and attacking skills coach Mike Catt.
If they don't bite the bullet, then it will take a lot of money to get them out.
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Bridgeman
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Post by Bridgeman on Oct 5, 2015 18:15:54 GMT
Whilst I still have enormous respect for Johnson I never understood why he was appointed head coach, when he had never had any experience of coaching a team.
People forget it took Clive Woodward 6 years to develop 'his' team and ultimately win the big prize and in the Southern Hemisphere too.
Four years later they almost pulled off the impossible under a different coach but with a number of the previous world cup winners in the team.
There have been some calls for Sir Clive to be brought back into rugby to oversee a complete revamp of how the RFU is run.
I think Stuart Lancaster should remain as Head Coach and go and get Shaun Edwards as his assistant.
I've never felt comfortable with the parent of one of the players being a coach and although I'm sure there is impartiality and a process for team selection it is beyond me why we never persisted with George Ford at no.10 when he was pretty successful during last seasons 6 nations.
I also think Robshaw's days as an international player and captain are numbered, some of his decision making has been bizarre to say the least and he hasn't really shone in the position he's played in.
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brizzle
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Post by brizzle on Oct 5, 2015 18:44:04 GMT
Whilst I still have enormous respect for Johnson I never understood why he was appointed head coach, when he had never had any experience of coaching a team. People forget it took Clive Woodward 6 years to develop 'his' team and ultimately win the big prize and in the Southern Hemisphere too. Four years later they almost pulled off the impossible under a different coach but with a number of the previous world cup winners in the team. There have been some calls for Sir Clive to be brought back into rugby to oversee a complete revamp of how the RFU is run. I think Stuart Lancaster should remain as Head Coach and go and get Shaun Edwards as his assistant.I've never felt comfortable with the parent of one of the players being a coach and although I'm sure there is impartiality and a process for team selection it is beyond me why we never persisted with George Ford at no.10 when he was pretty successful during last seasons 6 nations. I also think Robshaw's days as an international player and captain are numbered, some of his decision making has been bizarre to say the least and he hasn't really shone in the position he's played in. Well Shaun is English, and his contract with Wales is almost up . . . so that's two big pluses for him. I see that a few ''faces'' are already lobbying for the as-yet to be advertised position (discreetly of course), so the next few weeks should be interesting. But we are dealing with the England RFU here, so there won't necessarily be fireworks anytime soon. |
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Bridgeman
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Post by Bridgeman on Oct 5, 2015 20:45:29 GMT
Whilst I still have enormous respect for Johnson I never understood why he was appointed head coach, when he had never had any experience of coaching a team. People forget it took Clive Woodward 6 years to develop 'his' team and ultimately win the big prize and in the Southern Hemisphere too. Four years later they almost pulled off the impossible under a different coach but with a number of the previous world cup winners in the team. There have been some calls for Sir Clive to be brought back into rugby to oversee a complete revamp of how the RFU is run. I think Stuart Lancaster should remain as Head Coach and go and get Shaun Edwards as his assistant.I've never felt comfortable with the parent of one of the players being a coach and although I'm sure there is impartiality and a process for team selection it is beyond me why we never persisted with George Ford at no.10 when he was pretty successful during last seasons 6 nations. I also think Robshaw's days as an international player and captain are numbered, some of his decision making has been bizarre to say the least and he hasn't really shone in the position he's played in. Well Shaun is English, and his contract with Wales is almost up . . . so that's two big pluses for him. I see that a few ''faces'' are already lobbying for the as-yet to be advertised position (discreetly of course), so the next few weeks should be interesting. But we are dealing with the England RFU here, so there won't necessarily be fireworks anytime soon. I think Shaun has made it clear he's not of the old school tie brigade and may be a bit too outspoken for the RFU and is likely to put a few noses out of place but I like him. I think he may have been courted by the RFU previously but get the impression they may not like the demands he's presented. You're right about the few 'faces' appearing but the RFU might do worse than approach Mike Ford at Bath, he's shown himself to be a good coach and has international experience with France and go get Trevor Woodman as forwards coach and Jonny Wilkinson as backs coach. So there we are a dream team of Ford, Edwards, Woodman and Wilkinson Any suggestions of non English coaches available chaps ? |
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Post by Nobbygas on Oct 6, 2015 14:04:04 GMT
Eddie Jones has thrown his hat into the ring.
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brizzle
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Post by brizzle on Oct 6, 2015 15:32:56 GMT
I'm not really sure you can compare the Rugby (Union) World Cup with the Super League Grand Final however good that one off game might be and it is a fantastic show piece for the sport. Most pool games have been near sell outs including Wembley, the Olympic Stadium, The Millenium Stadium, Twickenham, St James' Park, The Etihad, King Power as well as other other smaller rugby grounds etc. You wouldn't get that with Rugby League. The English RFU have done a fantastic job in marketing the event but with that came the expectation to many England fans their team would do well. However, the more realistic and less arrogant England fans like me never had that jingoistic expectation but had a more considered approach to our chances in the competition and knowledge of the players at our disposal. Quite why the RFU refuses to let English qualified players in France play for their Country is beyond me, it's a global game why cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm not saying having any of those players like Stefan Armitage, Dylan Armitage, plus Nick Abendannon (European player of the year) would have made the team more successful but why tie your coaches hands behind his back. I never heard the reason why Dylan Hartley was left out ?The decision to play a rookie Sam Burgess instead of Henry Slade was baffling as was the dropping of George Ford. It appeared shambolic at best and in Wales where I've lived for nearly fifty years caused us English to be described in some places as arrogant cnuts because of the over optimistic media reporting in the English press but used against us in the Welsh press. Against Australia the expectation was overwhelming and the England team having not recovered from the Welsh game just froze against a really good Aussie team. I mean even my Welsh children and grandchildren were wearing Aussie colours and supporting them. I'm sure however, unlike Rovers there will be a proper review as to why England failed so abysmally, heads will unfortunately have to roll. It's not going to be a good place to be in the office in the morning.....lol UTG ! The short answer to that one is because he headbutted the Saracens player Jamie George, in full view of the TV cameras as well mind you. For that he was handed a four-week ban from rugby, and because he has a truly terrible record for indiscipline on the field (he has now received suspensions adding up to a year, during his career), the coach obviously felt that enough was enough. Clearly his therapy sessions didn't do the trick. Another notable home-based absentee was Manu Tuilagi, who was similarly excluded from the squad because he pleaded guilty to assaulting two female police officers whilst under the influence. So that is at least two of the established England team in the run-up to the World Cup, that were lost to the squad foolishly. By the way, how did it go in the office?  last week after being |
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brizzle
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Post by brizzle on Oct 6, 2015 15:39:28 GMT
Eddie Jones has thrown his hat into the ring. The vultures are circling already, and we haven't even completed our pool games yet. But when that does happen, then hopefully there will be positive action. But seriously there will be a lot of interest in the job (should it become vacant of course), but the trick will be convincing those in power at the RFU that radical changes are necessary. A root and branch review if you like. |
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Oct 9, 2015 3:47:19 GMT
I'm not really sure you can compare the Rugby (Union) World Cup with the Super League Grand Final however good that one off game might be and it is a fantastic show piece for the sport. Most pool games have been near sell outs including Wembley, the Olympic Stadium, The Millenium Stadium, Twickenham, St James' Park, The Etihad, King Power as well as other other smaller rugby grounds etc. You wouldn't get that with Rugby League. The English RFU have done a fantastic job in marketing the event but with that came the expectation to many England fans their team would do well. However, the more realistic and less arrogant England fans like me never had that jingoistic expectation but had a more considered approach to our chances in the competition and knowledge of the players at our disposal. Quite why the RFU refuses to let English qualified players in France play for their Country is beyond me, it's a global game why cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm not saying having any of those players like Stefan Armitage, Dylan Armitage, plus Nick Abendannon (European player of the year) would have made the team more successful but why tie your coaches hands behind his back. I never heard the reason why Dylan Hartley was left out ?The decision to play a rookie Sam Burgess instead of Henry Slade was baffling as was the dropping of George Ford. It appeared shambolic at best and in Wales where I've lived for nearly fifty years caused us English to be described in some places as arrogant cnuts because of the over optimistic media reporting in the English press but used against us in the Welsh press. Against Australia the expectation was overwhelming and the England team having not recovered from the Welsh game just froze against a really good Aussie team. I mean even my Welsh children and grandchildren were wearing Aussie colours and supporting them. I'm sure however, unlike Rovers there will be a proper review as to why England failed so abysmally, heads will unfortunately have to roll. It's not going to be a good place to be in the office in the morning.....lol UTG ! The short answer to that one is because he headbutted the Saracens player Jamie George, in full view of the TV cameras as well mind you. For that he was handed a four-week ban from rugby, and because he has a truly terrible record for indiscipline on the field (he has now received suspensions adding up to a year, during his career), the coach obviously felt that enough was enough. Clearly his therapy sessions didn't do the trick. Another notable home-based absentee was Manu Tuilagi, who was similarly excluded from the squad because he pleaded guilty to assaulting two female police officers whilst under the influence. So that is at least two of the established England team in the run-up to the World Cup, that were lost to the squad foolishly. By the way, how did it go in the office? last week after being I did wonder whether Hartley's discipline had cost him his place and assumed Lancaster had felt he didn't want to be playing with 14 men every game for 70 mins. The problem is that opposing teams know his lack of self control and niggle him and he just can't seem to help himself. The RFU have got to change their stance on overseas players, if the All Blacks, Aussies and South Africans can tolerate it then so should we, we missed out playing a world class 7 and the European player of the year, how mad is that ?  Oh and the office was fun, lots of good natured banter, people offering me condolences (with a big grin) and hankies, arms round the shoulder and asking if I needed to take compassionate leave to get over it etc I told them we've sent the laundry maid home early being as there are three less games to play so three less kits to wash I also reminded them that we had Dallagio, Johnson and Wilkinson playing for us in 1999 and looked what happened in the following World Cup  |
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