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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 5, 2014 17:43:36 GMT
in the interest of completeness, my reply to BSS and Horfield Boy
Mr BSS - Please show me what I have written that is unpleasant? I think you have represented us average fans from the terraces very poorly at the Board Room level and I have put that in writing. No shouting, swearing, threats or untruths. A reasoned critique on how I see it. What is unpleasant about that? Why is that an attack? Or would you prefer to stifle debate on your achievements and the achievements of the Board you sat on for the last three years?
Every clear deed that I have written about is a fact. You started a thread on the old official forum telling fans to “pull together” (note the quotation marks) when we had had already done our bit. You and the rest of the Board consistently blame the fans for all this. We aren’t to blame. You then labelled many people who disagreed with you or asked you difficult questions as keyboard warriors. Not long after you then voted for an immediate closure of the fan’s forum. I feel that you have often used condescending terms on forums and have now used another shocking phrase below; “yet another damning indictment on our own supporters”, as if some fans are ‘better than others’. You aren’t a better fan than us because you are a Director and we aren’t. I am a fan just like you and have been a SC member for many years. I’m just not as old as you are or introduced to Rovers as early as you were. I can’t help that. If you despise some gasheads as much as you say then why do you so desperately wish to represent us? Indeed how can you represent many of us with such a negative attitude to ANY criticism of you or the Board.
If you feel I have been unpleasant about Nick Higgs then I imagine he’s big enough to come on here and tell me. Or contact me directly. I do not hide behind pseudonyms. My blog, my comments and my twitter are in my personal name. I have always contributed to all and any forums as ‘mehewmagic’. I have no agenda and no axe to grind. I just tell it as I see it and I won’t allow you or anyone else to stop me giving reasoned analytical opinions. I think you’ve been an exceedingly poor representative at Board Room level for an average fan like myself and I am genuinely amazed that you would consider your performance has been good enough to warrant another three year term, whether or not people will vote for you or not.
I never suggested the fans cannot vote as they wish. You have all the benefits of a besuited incumbent. I use a blog to give my analysis of the situation just as you use twitter, this comments section, forums, the supporters club blog, and your official candidate statement for what you wish to write. It’s called democracy. Please don’t pretend that hard analysis like this is ‘unpleasant’. You’re a xx year old businessman. This goes on every day at nearly every club, and it helps make clubs stronger. The only reason this single article (out of 18 I’ve written) has wound a few people up from their slumber is precisely because many of us have been asleep for so long and put up with the rubbish that we have been fed for far too long. Our fans have been far more supportive of the Board than most fans ever would be. 2 relegations in 4 seasons and we‘ve never even had a demonstration against the Board.
HorfieldBoy - Why wouldn’t the BRISTOL Post print this reasoned critique on BRISTOL Rovers? Is only one opinion allowed these days? Is it only your opinion and BSS’s that is valid? Are some of us more equal than others? Last time I looked out of my window I saw rolling hills, not iron bars. No shouting, swearing, threats or untruths.
With respect, I still don’t think you get what I’m writing. I never said BSS doesn’t represent fans on some of the little issues. I see him wandering around the terraces, and have always applauded him for that. I’m saying he doesn’t represent us properly on the BIG issues. This is what the 6th paragraph of my article is about. It partly depends what you want a DIRECTOR of a Board to do.
Re, what I would do - I have written 18 articles. Some of the things I would do are in there. I also would have resigned by now anyway, and certainly wouldn’t be standing again if I had the record the Board and BSS have had of the last three years.
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Post by bluestickgas on Sept 5, 2014 17:46:06 GMT
I have supported Bristol Rovers through thick and thin for nearly 35 years having watched them play at Eastville, Twerton and the Mem and also visited a number of away games. I have seen some great football played and some atrocious stuff too but I'm bored now - not of the football as I'm a rovers fan and I'm faithful and true - but of this constant bickering and attacking of anything and everything the board does. It amazes me at just how many of our fans clearly have no idea how a football team is managed, how difficult that is and also just how much goes into running and keeping a large club like rovers afloat. The board have made mistakes, managers have made mistakes and players have let our club down. We all know that and accept that but this constant venomous criticism actually gets us nowhere. There is no large single investor out there waiting to buy the club as if there was I'm sure that Higgs et al would have sold up long ago and not put up with the stuff that is constantly thrown at them. They have the clubs best interests at hearts and do what they think is right at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure there are many decisions the board have made that they would have changed if they could but they, and only they (unless any of us out here has significant millions were ready to depart with with very little return) can get us out of this mess. In times of adversity ALL of us need to pull together, not score points at each other's expense! Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I feel the writer here has taken a cheap shot at BSS and the board without fully understanding or appreciating all that they have done. People only remember the bad and never recognise or praise the good and I would love for Nick H to turn round and say ok, you think you can do better? How about a job swap for a month - you become chairman and deal with everything and see how you fair. I'm pretty certain that they'd have a rude awakening and gain an appreciation of what it's really like. As for the stadium, having worked in commercial and contract law I know exactly what non Disclosure Agreements mean and the types of confidentiality clauses that exist and why Nick has been silent or indicated no issues when there have been problems. If he divulged all or some of it his negotiating position suddenly becomes weaker as it exposes gaps in the defence, heightens pressure from fans who, without knowing full stories start demanding all sorts. Nick has played it by the book and so he should - cos if he didn't we'd have no chance and would probably end up being sued for breach of confidentiality which would cost multi-millions that we don't have. So in summary, let's stop all this in fighting and get behind the club and all within it as all of us are the cause of our demise - the board, managers, players and fans alike and before anyone questions whether the fans have had a part to play, we have as it is us who write, shout and shatter confidence when certain players are off form. The players know when they have played poorly or done wrong and don't need constant reminding - instead they need encouragement to improve. Yes there are times when it is clear that a player is not up to scratch but that's the managers job to deal with it however he feels best. Having managed teams I know how difficult it is and just look at Man Utd, even with one of the best managers in the world they are struggling to get the best out of what is on paper a very good squad. I'm with you to an extent, but the footballing, financial and circumstantial predicament we are in suggests that there is going to be a lot more public bloodletting before we are ever a united fan group again. As a member of the board that oversaw this mess, coupled with the difficulties (real and self-imposed) in really communicating with the fans, BSS and Ken Masters are going to receive a fair amount of this stick. Could anyone do a better job than them? I don't know - it is a pretty thankless task when our team fails so completely on the field. Martin's article is too antagonistic in my view, but Brian's public response fails to recognise that we are all "true supporters" on here (other than the city trolls), but many are still very angry at the board that he is part of. _____ Oh and regards the last bit about supporting the players. You will have recognised that our home crowds are holding up well compared to seasons in L2 and not bad compared to our attendances in L1. Vocal support is definitely more/better than at many times during the last decade. Our away support is strengthening in my view, especially compared to 5-10 years ago. We took more to Barnet for a midweek conference game than we did when we played them in the Football League. We outnumbered Forest Green (as we should) at their own ground and will do so with other teams this season. We currently draw at least twice as many as the best other supported club in this division and 5 times more than many. OK some have strongly voiced disappointment, but only really at the poor performance at Altrincham. So please don't suggest that there is anything less than the best support anyone could expect for the team. Don't confuse criticism of the board with lack of support for the team. I agree with your point on the fans as you're right we still get fantastic crowds despite our predicament home and way - I guess I was directing my comments at those who have viciously criticised some of players on here and at games. Some of the comments I've read directed at Brunt, Taylor, Harrison, McChrystal, Parkes and Harrison I personally believe have been sometimes at best unfair and unjust and at worst completely out of order and disgusting. Everyone's entitled to think what they want but comments I've heard at games and read on here aren't those that would help me as a player improve or up my game if I was playing. I just think that us as fans should sometimes think first and be more constructive with criticism if you get what I'm saying?
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 5, 2014 17:48:06 GMT
But does the mysterious "Rod" going to have any more ability to stick up for the fans? At least we know NH is prepared to take on BSS views on board. Apart from post on the forums as Rod actually made himself know at the ground to fans as BSS is clearly still happy to do?
As far as the B Post blogs it seems every week all they do is have a pop at the club one way or another, Teds must look forward to the weekly installments. After a positive a week on the pitch the blogs have managed to criticise the fans, the fans directorate the BoD
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 5, 2014 17:49:51 GMT
Can you back that up please ? Sorry KP, perhaps i should ask, besides writing blogs what is Mr Bull doing to help the club? UTG Mate i do what most of us do. I buy a ticket and watch the team. I shout and cheer. I don't shout abuse at players. I go to away games as well. I'm edited a book about away games. I was a Trained Safety Steward at Twerton. I am a SC member and have been for many years. I am an average fan. No more. No less. Who analyses and writes, and won't be a lap dog to anyone. I find your question slightly worrying as it may suggest that an average fan needs to do more to help the club in order to have a voice. indeed BSS seems to be suggesting that in his reply. I do apologise for not being as old as he is, or being lucky enough to have family who introduced me to Rovers when I was a child. I will try to rectify it, but fear the worst.
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 5, 2014 17:52:52 GMT
But does the mysterious "Rod" going to have any more ability to stick up for the fans? At least we know NH is prepared to take on BSS views on board. Apart from post on the forums as Rod actually made himself know at the ground to fans as BSS is clearly still happy to do? As far as the B Post blogs it seems every week all they do is have a pop at the club one way or another, Teds must look forward to the weekly installments. After a positive a week on the pitch the blogs have managed to criticise the fans, the fans directorate the BoD Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk i've written 18 articles so far. most are not about the board. all are supportive of the players and manager. the week I wrote about 'cult heroes' was the week I got criticised for not bashing the board! if I pleased everyone every week I'd be doing something wrong.
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Post by bluestickgas on Sept 5, 2014 17:55:57 GMT
I have supported Bristol Rovers through thick and thin for nearly 35 years having watched them play at Eastville, Twerton and the Mem and also visited a number of away games. I have seen some great football played and some atrocious stuff too but I'm bored now - not of the football as I'm a rovers fan and I'm faithful and true - but of this constant bickering and attacking of anything and everything the board does. It amazes me at just how many of our fans clearly have no idea how a football team is managed, how difficult that is and also just how much goes into running and keeping a large club like rovers afloat. The board have made mistakes, managers have made mistakes and players have let our club down. We all know that and accept that but this constant venomous criticism actually gets us nowhere. There is no large single investor out there waiting to buy the club as if there was I'm sure that Higgs et al would have sold up long ago and not put up with the stuff that is constantly thrown at them. They have the clubs best interests at hearts and do what they think is right at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure there are many decisions the board have made that they would have changed if they could but they, and only they (unless any of us out here has significant millions were ready to depart with with very little return) can get us out of this mess. In times of adversity ALL of us need to pull together, not score points at each other's expense! Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I feel the writer here has taken a cheap shot at BSS and the board without fully understanding or appreciating all that they have done. People only remember the bad and never recognise or praise the good and I would love for Nick H to turn round and say ok, you think you can do better? How about a job swap for a month - you become chairman and deal with everything and see how you fair. I'm pretty certain that they'd have a rude awakening and gain an appreciation of what it's really like. As for the stadium, having worked in commercial and contract law I know exactly what non Disclosure Agreements mean and the types of confidentiality clauses that exist and why Nick has been silent or indicated no issues when there have been problems. If he divulged all or some of it his negotiating position suddenly becomes weaker as it exposes gaps in the defence, heightens pressure from fans who, without knowing full stories start demanding all sorts. Nick has played it by the book and so he should - cos if he didn't we'd have no chance and would probably end up being sued for breach of confidentiality which would cost multi-millions that we don't have. So in summary, let's stop all this in fighting and get behind the club and all within it as all of us are the cause of our demise - the board, managers, players and fans alike and before anyone questions whether the fans have had a part to play, we have as it is us who write, shout and shatter confidence when certain players are off form. The players know when they have played poorly or done wrong and don't need constant reminding - instead they need encouragement to improve. Yes there are times when it is clear that a player is not up to scratch but that's the managers job to deal with it however he feels best. Having managed teams I know how difficult it is and just look at Man Utd, even with one of the best managers in the world they are struggling to get the best out of what is on paper a very good squad. Totally disagree, i believe its the views you and others hold of nobody else would want to do it and get behind the board that has led us to where we stand. Bss is a suit, a politician, an apologist for the board. A very nice man but one who has no capacity to stick up for the fans. Lets get behind them is what everyone has been saying for our 15 year decline, two relegations etc. it does not work. I respect your view and I'm not saying there is no one else who would WANT to do it or couldn't do a better job, I just am yet to see anyone ready to step forward with the tens of millions of pounds ready to take the task on. I could be wrong so my view is that whilst mistakes have been made lets all acknowledge them (including the board) and work together to make our future brighter. Football and it's commerciality has significantly changed over the years and we all need to take that journey together if we are to rise again. Out of interest, what would you do / suggest to improve our lot given our current financial and commercial position? I have many ideas myself some of which I think could work and are doable to implement and some which we couldn't do unless we received significant investment.
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Post by dinsdale on Sept 5, 2014 18:50:34 GMT
You dont need it, if you run the club properly and break even. People have offered to invest and just get turned away.
GD going is a start and we now need to reach out to new investors or just people with skills to take us forward.
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Post by dinsdale on Sept 5, 2014 19:00:38 GMT
I respect your view and I'm not saying there is no one else who would WANT to do it or couldn't do a better job, I just am yet to see anyone ready to step forward with the tens of millions of pounds ready to take the task on. I could be wrong so my view is that whilst mistakes have been made lets all acknowledge them (including the board) and work together to make our future brighter. Football and it's commerciality has significantly changed over the years and we all need to take that journey together if we are to rise again. Out of interest, what would you do / suggest to improve our lot given our current financial and commercial position? I have many ideas myself some of which I think could work and are doable to implement and some which we couldn't do unless we received significant investment. Sorry missed the bottom bit. My views have been similar for some time and sorry to those that have read this before. 1. Appoint a director of football to manage the footballing staff, advise on appointments, footballing facillities and player recruitment. Someone in the mould of Gary Penrice (as in has scouting and coaching experience) the main priority must be scouting at all levels. 2. Appoint a chief executive to manage the financial / commercial and assett side of things. Hire both on a fixed term contracts with targets such as league 1 in 5 years, increased turnover and break even etc. 3. Pay for it by relaunching the share scheme with a fair share price and reissuing the share percentage pre share revaluation. If this does not work through increased turn over from points 1 and 2 / cuts to playing budget. Lets have skilled people running football and finance accountable to ambitious targets
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Post by bluestickgas on Sept 5, 2014 19:41:58 GMT
Sorry missed the bottom bit. My views have been similar for some time and sorry to those that have read this before. 1. Appoint a director of football to manage the footballing staff, advise on appointments, footballing facillities and player recruitment. Someone in the mould of Gary Penrice (as in has scouting and coaching experience) the main priority must be scouting at all levels. 2. Appoint a chief executive to manage the financial / commercial and assett side of things. Hire both on a fixed term contracts with targets such as league 1 in 5 years, increased turnover and break even etc. 3. Pay for it by relaunching the share scheme with a fair share price and reissuing the share percentage pre share revaluation. If this does not work through increased turn over from points 1 and 2 / cuts to playing budget. Lets have skilled people running football and finance accountable to ambitious targets To be fair I agree with you re Director of Football and Chief Exec - whether a relaunch of the share scheme would work and I'm guessing ideally we'd want the Chief Exec to be involved in this to maximise its benefits? On cuts to playing budget if share scheme doesn't work- I'm not sure we can afford to cut much more if we want to progress as I think we'll end up crossing the line the wrong way in terms of affording the talent needed to get us out of this league and up through others... But good ideas and suggestions and I wholeheartedly agree that the best way forward is to get the people with the right skills to run the right bits of the club. But until we get the right people in I guess I'm in the camp of make the best of what you have at the moment to maximise its potential and benefit whilst in the background allow some of those other things to take shape and be implemented.....
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dinsdale
Andy Rammell
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 495
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Post by dinsdale on Sept 5, 2014 21:07:48 GMT
To be fair I agree with you re Director of Football and Chief Exec - whether a relaunch of the share scheme would work and I'm guessing ideally we'd want the Chief Exec to be involved in this to maximise its benefits? On cuts to playing budget if share scheme doesn't work- I'm not sure we can afford to cut much more if we want to progress as I think we'll end up crossing the line the wrong way in terms of affording the talent needed to get us out of this league and up through others... But good ideas and suggestions and I wholeheartedly agree that the best way forward is to get the people with the right skills to run the right bits of the club. But until we get the right people in I guess I'm in the camp of make the best of what you have at the moment to maximise its potential and benefit whilst in the background allow some of those other things to take shape and be implemented..... To make that happen the board need holding to account through publishing the review, setting targets and being transparant. Brsc and the Brsc directors dont do this so thats the tough bit.
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jozer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 365
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Post by jozer on Sept 5, 2014 21:42:29 GMT
'None of you have any idea how a football club is managed'. Bloody priceless!
Our BoD clearly have no idea how a football club is managed, which is why we are in freefall.
'Stop critisising and get behind the club'. No no no! as someone else has replied, that line has been dragged out so many times. it hasn't worked and it won't work.
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Post by turnpike on Sept 5, 2014 21:45:47 GMT
To be fair I agree with you re Director of Football and Chief Exec - whether a relaunch of the share scheme would work and I'm guessing ideally we'd want the Chief Exec to be involved in this to maximise its benefits? On cuts to playing budget if share scheme doesn't work- I'm not sure we can afford to cut much more if we want to progress as I think we'll end up crossing the line the wrong way in terms of affording the talent needed to get us out of this league and up through others... But good ideas and suggestions and I wholeheartedly agree that the best way forward is to get the people with the right skills to run the right bits of the club. But until we get the right people in I guess I'm in the camp of make the best of what you have at the moment to maximise its potential and benefit whilst in the background allow some of those other things to take shape and be implemented..... To make that happen the board need holding to account through publishing the review, setting targets and being transparant. Brsc and the Brsc directors dont do this so thats the tough bit. I was going to ask if you were the same Dinsdale as on twitter, who has gone after BSS tonight. This post confirms you are though
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Post by bluestickgas on Sept 6, 2014 3:56:55 GMT
'None of you have any idea how a football club is managed'. Bloody priceless! Our BoD clearly have no idea how a football club is managed, which is why we are in freefall. 'Stop critisising and get behind the club'. No no no! as someone else has replied, that line has been dragged out so many times. it hasn't worked and it won't work. You're entitled to your opinion mate. couple of questions to you though - have you ever managed a football team or local sports club? Or been a chairman or senior member / partner in any local sports clubs at an amateur or professional level? If you have then fair enough but I talk from experience when I say how difficult it is and the challenges that come up and have to be worked through and how much time, effort and commitment it takes and how thankless a task it is sometimes. Re support the club, I have not said don't criticise - just be constructive and work together to better the club we love. What other option is there? We have been in decline over the years but at the same time by continually fighting against anything and everything that is currently BRFC, we'll just throw ourselves into further free-fall. You say supporting or I would rather say work with the board won't work - so what's your suggestions on how things could / should change? What would you do to make us better given our current position financially and commercially? And get rid of the current board isn't an answer as that would take a long time and immediate investment to do straightaway. Dinsdale made some good suggestions that may help and they were suggestions that would compliment the current board structure rather than replace it if put into place and if done right I don't think would undermine the chairman or manager etc. Over time the board could be replaced but that isn't going to happen anytime soon I don't think......
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 10, 2014 9:44:54 GMT
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Post by Curly Wurly on Sept 10, 2014 10:49:03 GMT
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 18, 2014 8:49:41 GMT
This week is now available - 'We are all equal..' I feel we still need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and I’d love to see even more of us getting behind our manager and team. Everyone is equal in this league and all clubs have their own fascinating history. Our manager is doing ok. Am I totally happy with it all so far? No, there are some annoying itches, of course. But when I think about Rovers I don’t feel that it is all doom and gloom. www.bristolpost.co.uk/BRISTOL-ROVERS-G-Gas-equal/story-22939866-detail/story.html
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Post by buckrippers on Sept 18, 2014 8:59:59 GMT
This week is now available - 'We are all equal..' I feel we still need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and I’d love to see even more of us getting behind our manager and team. Everyone is equal in this league and all clubs have their own fascinating history. Our manager is doing ok. Am I totally happy with it all so far? No, there are some annoying itches, of course. But when I think about Rovers I don’t feel that it is all doom and gloom. www.bristolpost.co.uk/BRISTOL-ROVERS-G-Gas-equal/story-22939866-detail/story.htmlAgree with nearly all of this, Martin. I was very uncomfortable, too, with the way DC seemed to wash his hands of everything that went wrong last season. I think he has been extremely naive and he would do better to keep his own counsel on occasions, but I hope he's learning and results are certainly looking up. Your point about the fans is 100 pc true. He should be using our great support to motivate the players, not put the fear of God into them. The majority only want best for the team. Back in the early 80s I used to report on Stoke City and remember Howard Kendall bringing a struggling Everton to the Victoria Ground in the FA Cup third round. He was so impressed with Everton's following that day, instead of giving a team talk he just opened the dressing room windows and said: "Listen to that. Those are the people willing you to win. Do it for them." They went on to win the game, Kendall's job was saved and we all know what he went on to achieve from there. Darrell must use the fans as a force for good to inspire and motivate his players. A good blast of Irene in the dressing room before the game would get the juices flowing.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 12:04:44 GMT
This week is now available - 'We are all equal..' I feel we still need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and I’d love to see even more of us getting behind our manager and team. Everyone is equal in this league and all clubs have their own fascinating history. Our manager is doing ok. Am I totally happy with it all so far? No, there are some annoying itches, of course. But when I think about Rovers I don’t feel that it is all doom and gloom. www.bristolpost.co.uk/BRISTOL-ROVERS-G-Gas-equal/story-22939866-detail/story.htmlAgree with nearly all of this, Martin. I was very uncomfortable, too, with the way DC seemed to wash his hands of everything that went wrong last season. I think he has been extremely naive and he would do better to keep his own counsel on occasions, but I hope he's learning and results are certainly looking up. Your point about the fans is 100 pc true. He should be using our great support to motivate the players, not put the fear of God into them. The majority only want best for the team. Back in the early 80s I used to report on Stoke City and remember Howard Kendall bringing a struggling Everton to the Victoria Ground in the FA Cup third round. He was so impressed with Everton's following that day, instead of giving a team talk he just opened the dressing room windows and said: "Listen to that. Those are the people willing you to win. Do it for them." They went on to win the game, Kendall's job was saved and we all know what he went on to achieve from there. Darrell must use the fans as a force for good to inspire and motivate his players. A good blast of Irene in the dressing room before the game would get the juices flowing. Nice blog Martin. An Orwellian reference is always worth making a point with During the 'nearly season' an owner/chairman of a football club in our division at the time said to me: I'm not bothered about buying your Football Club, but if your fans were up for sale, I'd start the bidding.
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Post by mehewmagic on Sept 24, 2014 10:24:58 GMT
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 10:40:38 GMT
... the Sandgrounders. Sounds like a folk/rock band from 1960s California.
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