faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 11, 2014 8:40:26 GMT
Well, if there is no contract at all between brfc and Sainsburys, it would mean that Higgs is an outrageous liar, the most incompetent businessman in the history of businessmen, and in serious legal trouble, as the contract is mentioned in both the original planning application, and the afore mentioned writ, making him guilty of pergury (possibly). I think we can assume the existence of some kind of contract. If there was none at all, that would have leaked by now. In my very limited business experience, I've always worked on the basis that when dealing with contractual issues one should never assume anything. It's a very dangerous practice, and could prove to be very expensive. But logically there is a contract between Sainsbury's and BRFC, isn't there? Also surely Sainsburys wouldn't have gone to the trouble and expense of gaining planning permission without a contract being in place, would they?
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 11, 2014 8:58:19 GMT
The big question now is do Sainsbury's see the contracts as "watertight" or can they find a reason i.e. the contracts were signed on the basis we would bow have vacant possession of the Mem to declare them null & void, the fact there's no announcements yet makes you fear the worse. Can't see how they can say that, a lot of stores get delayed because of appeals. If they can say that, what's the point of the contract in the first place. Surely it is there to stop companies wasting others time and money. On the face of it, from what is known of The Contract from The Writ that was issued (I'm capitalising these from now on, to demonstrate their importance), Rovers case looks pretty good. the big niggles for me though are: - The length of time since the original agreement. The writ though refers to Long Stop Date in The Contract, so hopefully we are still within that. - the 2 onerous planning conditions that Sainsburys waived. I'm still worried that they could un-waive them.
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Post by stevek192 on Dec 11, 2014 11:05:41 GMT
Of course there is a Contract. Do you honestly not think that Sainsbury's would have been long gone if it wasn't for the Contract? IMO if Rovers fail in getting Full completement of the Contract then it will make a mockery of engaging in any Contract at all. Sainsburys won the right to go for the Mem and it was made very clear in their early dealkings with the Council that they were going to build a store and since then there have been very expensive Court Cases/Appeals. If they can just walk away then it would put anybody off getting into ANY Contracts with them in the future. I would add if they can and do get out of fulfilling their part then it makes a complete mockery of the Law of Contract and in fact the Law in this Country.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 11:12:46 GMT
If Higgs delivers UWE then fair play. But no one can argue that on the pitch his tenure has been disaster. It's off the pitch his tenure has been a disaster hence the reason we knocked on the door of the vanarama conference for his almost entire tenure. He is without exception far and above the worst chairman in the history of our football club and has rendered us a complete laughing stock.Given that he has made no effort to galvanise the club it makes dc's achievements to date all the more remarkable. The day the man walks away with his pension pot is the day BRFC will start to slowly regain the pride and dignity it once had under Dennis Dunford, hopefully.... who is laughing ?? The only laughing i can hear is mine looking at your post
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 12:21:43 GMT
It's off the pitch his tenure has been a disaster hence the reason we knocked on the door of the vanarama conference for his almost entire tenure. He is without exception far and above the worst chairman in the history of our football club and has rendered us a complete laughing stock.Given that he has made no effort to galvanise the club it makes dc's achievements to date all the more remarkable. The day the man walks away with his pension pot is the day BRFC will start to slowly regain the pride and dignity it once had under Dennis Dunford, hopefully.... who is laughing ?? The only laughing i can hear is mine looking at your post Do you not live near any of our lovely rival fans then Henbury? I do and it has been a nightmare for at least 5 years now, sometimes if Rovers are away I watch our local team and used to venture into the clubhouse for a pint and FT scores, not anymore though, a mixture of armchair Rovers fans, Red's supporters of plastic prem fans lapping it up at our clubs expense. Having to sit in a packed bar listening to other people opinion of the club, opinions that have in recent years become impossible to defend is a nightmare. Glad you find it funny though.
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LJG
Peter Beadle
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 969
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Post by LJG on Dec 11, 2014 12:30:12 GMT
Something something contract. Something something watertight. Something something opinion based on limited factual knowledge and general misunderstanding of procedure.
Ahthankyah.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 12:43:03 GMT
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Dec 11, 2014 13:01:14 GMT
who is laughing ?? The only laughing i can hear is mine looking at your post Do you not live near any of our lovely rival fans then Henbury? I do and it has been a nightmare for at least 5 years now, sometimes if Rovers are away I watch our local team and used to venture into the clubhouse for a pint and FT scores, not anymore though, a mixture of armchair Rovers fans, Red's supporters of plastic prem fans lapping it up at our clubs expense. Having to sit in a packed bar listening to other people opinion of the club, opinions that have in recent years become impossible to defend is a nightmare. Glad you find it funny though. And from someone who lives elsewhere here is some feedback from fans of other clubs I have spoken to; -'Didn't you used to be half decent' (Oldham Fan). -'Shame your club has gone down the toilet' (Crewe Fan). -'What has gone wrong at Bristol Rovers?' (Man City fan who remembered playing us in the league a few years back). -'Can't believe you've joined us down here (Wrexham fan). -'How has your club has become such a joke?' (Forest fan). Laughing stock seems fair enough to me based on my conversations with other fans - people feel sorry for me when I say I support Rovers. What part of relegation through 2 divisions and being out of the league for the first time in 100 years are people supposed to be impressed by? Is it possible to categorise Higgs period as Chairman as a period of success? I can't see anything other than complete failure.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 11, 2014 13:07:53 GMT
The big question now is do Sainsbury's see the contracts as "watertight" or can they find a reason i.e. the contracts were signed on the basis we would bow have vacant possession of the Mem to declare them null & void, the fact there's no announcements yet makes you fear the worse. It makes YOU fear the worst , not me . Perhaps when you take your head out of the sand you might see things differently.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 13:18:08 GMT
Do you not live near any of our lovely rival fans then Henbury? I do and it has been a nightmare for at least 5 years now, sometimes if Rovers are away I watch our local team and used to venture into the clubhouse for a pint and FT scores, not anymore though, a mixture of armchair Rovers fans, Red's supporters of plastic prem fans lapping it up at our clubs expense. Having to sit in a packed bar listening to other people opinion of the club, opinions that have in recent years become impossible to defend is a nightmare. Glad you find it funny though. And from someone who lives elsewhere here is some feedback from fans of other clubs I have spoken to; -'Didn't you used to be half decent' (Oldham Fan). -'Shame your club has gone down the toilet' (Crewe Fan). -'What has gone wrong at Bristol Rovers?' (Man City fan who remembered playing us in the league a few years back). -'Can't believe you've joined us down here (Wrexham fan). -'How has your club has become such a joke?' (Forest fan). Laughing stock seems fair enough to me based on my conversations with other fans - people feel sorry for me when I say I support Rovers. What part of relegation through 2 divisions and being out of the league for the first time in 100 years are people supposed to be impressed by? Is it possible to categorise Higgs period as Chairman as a period of success? I can't see anything other than complete failure. Totally agree, even if Higgs manages to get the Stadium built, he has a long way to go to repair the damage done. He's only succeeded in dividing the fans.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Dec 11, 2014 13:55:44 GMT
"Having to sit in a packed bar listening to other people opinion of the club, opinions that have in recent years become impossible to defend is a nightmare."
1986, praps Santa will bring you a thicker skin, a better sense of humour, and a concentration on solutions not problems.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 14:56:32 GMT
When the great day comes and Waitrose sorry Sainsbury build their shrine to retail holiness, the UWE wetherspoons stadium sits in all its glory with the mighty golden statue of Sir Nick Higgs looking down upon the hallowed turf of Bristol Rovers football club, you will remember these dark days....
Pass the Ganja please......
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Dec 11, 2014 15:30:03 GMT
Of course there is a Contract. Do you honestly not think that Sainsbury's would have been long gone if it wasn't for the Contract? IMO if Rovers fail in getting Full completement of the Contract then it will make a mockery of engaging in any Contract at all. Sainsburys won the right to go for the Mem and it was made very clear in their early dealkings with the Council that they were going to build a store and since then there have been very expensive Court Cases/Appeals. If they can just walk away then it would put anybody off getting into ANY Contracts with them in the future. I would add if they can and do get out of fulfilling their part then it makes a complete mockery of the Law of Contract and in fact the Law in this Country. I agree, mainly because I have seen and heard both the Chairman and Finance Director attempting to do whatever they can to bring the matter to a successful conclusion. Also the Chairman has described the contract as being ''watertight.'' In assuming that there is a contract, only time and potentially an awful lot of money (should the matter go to Court) will decide if the contract is indeed ''watertight.'' But the fact remains that Sainsburys have considerably more assets than BRFC, and if push did come to shove (and should Sainsburys decide to play hardball), then they could just sit back and do nothing. This would leave the onus on Rovers to actively pursue the matter through the Courts, using their own limited resources remember. Does anyone remember the Chairman's recent griping over legal fees? I think that the sum mentioned was in excess of £1m, so he had every reason to complain, because that money could have been spent on strengthening the team and a whole host of other projects. But the fact remains that if the worst does come to the worst, then we could find ourselves throwing good money after bad in an attempt to get a settlement from Sainsburys. And all that they would need to do would be to drop a dead bat on everything until such time as BRFC's well runs dry. In the intervening period, which seems to be now, I really do hope that the Chairman and his legal team can bring sufficient pressure on Sainsburys to honour their side of the contract. I do understand this business of the confidentiality clause because it does make excellent sense for both parties, understandably neither wants to negotiate in the public arena. But inevitably this is bound to lead to speculation, which is where we presently are I believe. If only we had a time-frame, eh?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 17:08:28 GMT
But the fact remains that if the worst does come to the worst, then we could find ourselves throwing good money after bad in an attempt to get a settlement from Sainsburys. And all that they would need to do would be to drop a dead bat on everything until such time as BRFC's well runs dry. Precisely. And they don't even have to get their bat out yet as TRASH are doing their job for them. My reading of the last TRASH statement was that they see 2 options to contest the extended delivery hours. And that's before we even consider the other 2 'store onorous conditions', or the possibility that the contract could be time limited.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 18:43:42 GMT
"Having to sit in a packed bar listening to other people opinion of the club, opinions that have in recent years become impossible to defend is a nightmare." 1986, praps Santa will bring you a thicker skin, a better sense of humour, and a concentration on solutions not problems. Can you clearly explain what connection there is to being thoroughly embarrassed by the clubs plight to making incorrect assumptions on my personality traits Dido?
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 18:52:17 GMT
Do you not live near any of our lovely rival fans then Henbury? I do and it has been a nightmare for at least 5 years now, sometimes if Rovers are away I watch our local team and used to venture into the clubhouse for a pint and FT scores, not anymore though, a mixture of armchair Rovers fans, Red's supporters of plastic prem fans lapping it up at our clubs expense. Having to sit in a packed bar listening to other people opinion of the club, opinions that have in recent years become impossible to defend is a nightmare. Glad you find it funny though. And from someone who lives elsewhere here is some feedback from fans of other clubs I have spoken to; -'Didn't you used to be half decent' (Oldham Fan). -'Shame your club has gone down the toilet' (Crewe Fan). -'What has gone wrong at Bristol Rovers?' (Man City fan who remembered playing us in the league a few years back). -'Can't believe you've joined us down here (Wrexham fan). -'How has your club has become such a joke?' (Forest fan). Laughing stock seems fair enough to me based on my conversations with other fans - people feel sorry for me when I say I support Rovers. What part of relegation through 2 divisions and being out of the league for the first time in 100 years are people supposed to be impressed by? Is it possible to categorise Higgs period as Chairman as a period of success? I can't see anything other than complete failure. It's endless Irish, I think what bemuses our nearest rivals is the fact that the current chairman has gone totally unchallenged by the fan base. To endure direct pity from our cross river rivals is the lowest in terms of banter and is getting all the more regular. In the 90's and beyond there was always ammunition to counter people who took the Mick, a bit of solidarity, fan spirit, winning in the face of adversity, so many David and Goliath encounters, knew so many people who used to be so proud of the support and proud to be a minority. It doesn't pay to spend too much time looking into the past as it highlights just how split and broken the club has become, im still astounded that some Gasheads continue to defend Higgs 'leadership' and wonder what planet they come from.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 11, 2014 22:41:16 GMT
When the great day comes and Waitrose sorry Sainsbury build their shrine to retail holiness, the UWE wetherspoons stadium sits in all its glory with the mighty golden statue of Sir Nick Higgs looking down upon the hallowed turf of Bristol Rovers football club, you will remember these dark days.... Pass the Ganja please...... Why would Waitrose consider the store anymore viable than Sainsbury's, when they both operate in similar markets?
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Post by CountyGroundHotel on Dec 12, 2014 4:03:54 GMT
When the great day comes and Waitrose sorry Sainsbury build their shrine to retail holiness, the UWE wetherspoons stadium sits in all its glory with the mighty golden statue of Sir Nick Higgs looking down upon the hallowed turf of Bristol Rovers football club, you will remember these dark days.... Pass the Ganja please...... Why would Waitrose consider the store anymore viable than Sainsbury's, when they both operate in similar markets? Because after the cheap German supermarkets Waitrose are the only supermarket with rising sales.
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faggotygas
Byron Anthony
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,862
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Post by faggotygas on Dec 12, 2014 8:43:40 GMT
Of course there is a Contract. Do you honestly not think that Sainsbury's would have been long gone if it wasn't for the Contract? IMO if Rovers fail in getting Full completement of the Contract then it will make a mockery of engaging in any Contract at all. Sainsburys won the right to go for the Mem and it was made very clear in their early dealkings with the Council that they were going to build a store and since then there have been very expensive Court Cases/Appeals. If they can just walk away then it would put anybody off getting into ANY Contracts with them in the future. I would add if they can and do get out of fulfilling their part then it makes a complete mockery of the Law of Contract and in fact the Law in this Country. I agree, mainly because I have seen and heard both the Chairman and Finance Director attempting to do whatever they can to bring the matter to a successful conclusion. Also the Chairman has described the contract as being ''watertight.'' In assuming that there is a contract, only time and potentially an awful lot of money (should the matter go to Court) will decide if the contract is indeed ''watertight.'' But the fact remains that Sainsburys have considerably more assets than BRFC, and if push did come to shove (and should Sainsburys decide to play hardball), then they could just sit back and do nothing. This would leave the onus on Rovers to actively pursue the matter through the Courts, using their own limited resources remember. Does anyone remember the Chairman's recent griping over legal fees? I think that the sum mentioned was in excess of £1m, so he had every reason to complain, because that money could have been spent on strengthening the team and a whole host of other projects. But the fact remains that if the worst does come to the worst, then we could find ourselves throwing good money after bad in an attempt to get a settlement from Sainsburys. And all that they would need to do would be to drop a dead bat on everything until such time as BRFC's well runs dry. In the intervening period, which seems to be now, I really do hope that the Chairman and his legal team can bring sufficient pressure on Sainsburys to honour their side of the contract. I do understand this business of the confidentiality clause because it does make excellent sense for both parties, understandably neither wants to negotiate in the public arena. But inevitably this is bound to lead to speculation, which is where we presently are I believe. If only we had a time-frame, eh? Would be risky for Sainsburys though, Judges look at such tactics very critically, and they won't want to spend more in legal fees than they would lose by just fulfilling the contract (purchase price less market price for the land). So they don't have an unlimited budget on this. Also, luckily its not Sainsburys that set court dates, and any obvious stalling, or refusing to comply with court orders or injunctions (which are not that expensive to get), would be likely seen as contempt of court.
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Post by Topper Gas on Dec 12, 2014 11:03:10 GMT
Sainsbury's wouldn't need to "stall" as a multi millions pound case like this could take years to get to a court hearing once a writ is eventually served, and even that could be 6 months away. They are already using the legal process to delay matters re the delivery hours when really they could have proceed with the deal, if they had wanted to, whilst that was being appealed.
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