GasHeadGaz
Vita Astafjevs
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Post by GasHeadGaz on Jun 25, 2014 8:53:36 GMT
*WOW* What a finish, Sri Lanka taking the last wicket with 2 balls to go. Reminds me of the 2005 Ashes at Edgbaston I think it was when we beat them with 2 runs to spare, it was that close. We really are on a downward spiral, it says a lot when we can't beat Sri Lanka at home in a test series. That's 8 matches now in a row in which we haven't won a single game. Getting a bit worrying now.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 25, 2014 13:45:13 GMT
*WOW* What a finish, Sri Lanka taking the last wicket with 2 balls to go. Reminds me of the 2005 Ashes at Edgbaston I think it was when we beat them with 2 runs to spare, it was that close. We really are on a downward spiral, it says a lot when we can't beat Sri Lanka at home in a test series. That's 8 matches now in a row in which we haven't won a single game. Getting a bit worrying now. To be fair it's not like the Sri Lanka are also-rans; they're a very good team who've won more international trophies than we ever have and who have beaten us as often as we've beaten them in Test Series over the years. It's not like we were playing Bangladesh or the current Windies. They have 2 of the 4 best batsman in the World (Jayawardene and Sangakarra) one of whom is in the form of his life. They also have a granite like Captain in Mathews who is a very impressive figure who seems to thrive under pressure. They had the best spinner in this series as well in Herath. I don't think there's that much between these sides really. We have more depth on paper but they have the better high end talent. I think that was played out in 2 very competitive, close matches with fantastic finishes. Having said that. you're right that we should always be looking to beat them at home. We used home advantage to get ourselves in a match winning position on the first day and then blew it twice; firstly by failing to bat them out of the game in the first innings and secondly by not taking advantage of a favourable bowling track in the second. On the flip side we nearly turned a draw into a win at Lords. I didn't think it was that bad a performance and there were lots of promising individual efforts. Major hats off to Moeen for that rearguard action. What discipline, because on no level is he that kind of player. I'm not sure he's ever played an innings like that before but he reigned in his attacking instincts and was 2 balls from being an England legend only to have it taken away from him at the last through no fault of his own; cruel. I think he's done enough to win over England fans though, which is good because he's an exciting player who deserves a good run in the side. Jordan was also a positive I think and Robson and Ballance did well. Plunkett's performance at Headingly was good. Question marks really are over Jimmy and Broad's failure to win this game for us with the ball; it was set up for them and basically they were outbowled by an inexperienced Sri Lankan attack. Along with Cook's awful run, these are the questions that need asking. India series will be good I think - both us and India are in a similar rebuilding stage.
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GasHeadGaz
Vita Astafjevs
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 518
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Post by GasHeadGaz on Jun 25, 2014 18:37:36 GMT
*WOW* What a finish, Sri Lanka taking the last wicket with 2 balls to go. Reminds me of the 2005 Ashes at Edgbaston I think it was when we beat them with 2 runs to spare, it was that close. We really are on a downward spiral, it says a lot when we can't beat Sri Lanka at home in a test series. That's 8 matches now in a row in which we haven't won a single game. Getting a bit worrying now. To be fair it's not like the Sri Lanka are also-rans; they're a very good team who've won more international trophies than we ever have and who have beaten us as often as we've beaten them in Test Series over the years. It's not like we were playing Bangladesh or the current Windies. They have 2 of the 4 best batsman in the World (Jayawardene and Sangakarra) one of whom is in the form of his life. They also have a granite like Captain in Mathews who is a very impressive figure who seems to thrive under pressure. They had the best spinner in this series as well in Herath. I don't think there's that much between these sides really. We have more depth on paper but they have the better high end talent. I think that was played out in 2 very competitive, close matches with fantastic finishes. Having said that. you're right that we should always be looking to beat them at home. We used home advantage to get ourselves in a match winning position on the first day and then blew it twice; firstly by failing to bat them out of the game in the first innings and secondly by not taking advantage of a favourable bowling track in the second. On the flip side we nearly turned a draw into a win at Lords. I didn't think it was that bad a performance and there were lots of promising individual efforts. Major hats off to Moeen for that rearguard action. What discipline, because on no level is he that kind of player. I'm not sure he's ever played an innings like that before but he reigned in his attacking instincts and was 2 balls from being an England legend only to have it taken away from him at the last through no fault of his own; cruel. I think he's done enough to win over England fans though, which is good because he's an exciting player who deserves a good run in the side. Jordan was also a positive I think and Robson and Ballance did well. Plunkett's performance at Headingly was good. Question marks really are over Jimmy and Broad's failure to win this game for us with the ball; it was set up for them and basically they were outbowled by an inexperienced Sri Lankan attack. Along with Cook's awful run, these are the questions that need asking. India series will be good I think - both us and India are in a similar rebuilding stage. In all fairness Test cricket is totally different to ODI's, Sri Lanka have been one of the best teams constantly for the past 20 odd years. England should never be losing at home to Sri Lanka in Test Match cricket. As for Cook I don't think he will be the captain when we play India. I think the ECB will sack him, hopefully then he can go back to being one of the best players in the world. 8 games now with out a win, that form simply can't go on. The only problem then would be who replaces him? There arent that many obvious players, Bell? is he to old at 35/36? Broad maybe, to go along side his 20/20 captaincy?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 25, 2014 19:17:24 GMT
To be fair it's not like the Sri Lanka are also-rans; they're a very good team who've won more international trophies than we ever have and who have beaten us as often as we've beaten them in Test Series over the years. It's not like we were playing Bangladesh or the current Windies. They have 2 of the 4 best batsman in the World (Jayawardene and Sangakarra) one of whom is in the form of his life. They also have a granite like Captain in Mathews who is a very impressive figure who seems to thrive under pressure. They had the best spinner in this series as well in Herath. I don't think there's that much between these sides really. We have more depth on paper but they have the better high end talent. I think that was played out in 2 very competitive, close matches with fantastic finishes. Having said that. you're right that we should always be looking to beat them at home. We used home advantage to get ourselves in a match winning position on the first day and then blew it twice; firstly by failing to bat them out of the game in the first innings and secondly by not taking advantage of a favourable bowling track in the second. On the flip side we nearly turned a draw into a win at Lords. I didn't think it was that bad a performance and there were lots of promising individual efforts. Major hats off to Moeen for that rearguard action. What discipline, because on no level is he that kind of player. I'm not sure he's ever played an innings like that before but he reigned in his attacking instincts and was 2 balls from being an England legend only to have it taken away from him at the last through no fault of his own; cruel. I think he's done enough to win over England fans though, which is good because he's an exciting player who deserves a good run in the side. Jordan was also a positive I think and Robson and Ballance did well. Plunkett's performance at Headingly was good. Question marks really are over Jimmy and Broad's failure to win this game for us with the ball; it was set up for them and basically they were outbowled by an inexperienced Sri Lankan attack. Along with Cook's awful run, these are the questions that need asking. India series will be good I think - both us and India are in a similar rebuilding stage. In all fairness Test cricket is totally different to ODI's, Sri Lanka have been one of the best teams constantly for the past 20 odd years. England should never be losing at home to Sri Lanka in Test Match cricket. As for Cook I don't think he will be the captain when we play India. I think the ECB will sack him, hopefully then he can go back to being one of the best players in the world. 8 games now with out a win, that form simply can't go on. The only problem then would be who replaces him? There arent that many obvious players, Bell? is he to old at 35/36? Broad maybe, to go along side his 20/20 captaincy? But Sri Lanka have given as good as they've got in tests against us for at least 15 years now. There's arguably no team with which we consistently match up as evenly with. Test Match series between England and Sri Lanka are nearly always tight. If you take away the games in the 80s where they were just starting out the all time record in England stands at 4 wins to us and 3 to the Sri Lankans with an awful lot of draws. There's no sense at which we should expect to turn up and beat Sri Lanka - you have to work for it. The press, the fans, the players to an extent consistently underrate them. They've always been as tough as hell, greater than the sum of their parts and with some absolute quality match winners in there. In general they've competed much better against us in England over that time than India, Pakistan (who tend to either thrash us or get thrashed), the West Indies or New Zealand have over that time. They're a good team - we're about at that level right now as the series kind of proved. 1-1 would have been fair probably but we lost the key moments and they won them. I think if they replace Cook then they'll probably feel they have to replace Moores as well and it would give the appearance of chaos so I can't really see it happening. You're right though, the main reason they won't sack him is that there's no obvious replacement. I agree that we need Cook the batsman and can do without Cook the Captain. Cook is pretty average as Captain but is getting far too much flack for this series failure. We didn't lose because the Captain got it wrong. We lost because our senior bowlers didn't get the job done in the second innings on a pretty favourable English bowling track - for some reason Anderson particularly struggles at Headingley. The main case against Cook is that we need his batting back and captaincy seems to have got in his head. The problem is there are still question marks over some of the senior players. In the long run I think Root will be Captain but not for a few years.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 25, 2014 21:43:39 GMT
*WOW* What a finish, Sri Lanka taking the last wicket with 2 balls to go. Reminds me of the 2005 Ashes at Edgbaston I think it was when we beat them with 2 runs to spare, it was that close. We really are on a downward spiral, it says a lot when we can't beat Sri Lanka at home in a test series. That's 8 matches now in a row in which we haven't won a single game. Getting a bit worrying now. What discipline, because on no level is he that kind of player. I'm not sure he's ever played an innings like that before but he reigned in his attacking instincts and was 2 balls from being an England legend only to have it taken away from him at the last through no fault of his own; cruel. I think he's done enough to win over England fans though, which is good because he's an exciting player who deserves a good run in the side. Jordan was also a positive I think and Robson and Ballance did well. Plunkett's performance at Headingly was good. Question marks really are over Jimmy and Broad's failure to win this game for us with the ball; it was set up for them and basically they were outbowled by an inexperienced Sri Lankan attack. Along with Cook's awful run, these are the questions that need asking. India series will be good I think - both us and India are in a similar rebuilding stage. Moeen's completely out of character innings makes a mockery of Pietersons "that's how I bat" comments. Hats off to him. I am starting to think Anderson is done at this level. He's gone from being our best fielder to looking like an old man once he's stiffened up after a bowling spell. Broad is a worry too. He's well down on pace at the moment. I suspect he is carrying a knock but he's had so many injuries I worry that they will catch up with him. It will be interesting to see how they balance the side if it stays dry and they need to pick a front line spinner. Jordan has done well but I think they will want to get Stokes back in. Of the front line spinners Patel at Middlesex and Riley at Kent are the ones in form but they are desperately inexperienced. I wonder whether they might make a play for Dockrell of Ireland and Somerset?
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 25, 2014 22:19:28 GMT
What discipline, because on no level is he that kind of player. I'm not sure he's ever played an innings like that before but he reigned in his attacking instincts and was 2 balls from being an England legend only to have it taken away from him at the last through no fault of his own; cruel. I think he's done enough to win over England fans though, which is good because he's an exciting player who deserves a good run in the side. Jordan was also a positive I think and Robson and Ballance did well. Plunkett's performance at Headingly was good. Question marks really are over Jimmy and Broad's failure to win this game for us with the ball; it was set up for them and basically they were outbowled by an inexperienced Sri Lankan attack. Along with Cook's awful run, these are the questions that need asking. India series will be good I think - both us and India are in a similar rebuilding stage. Moeen's completely out of character innings makes a mockery of Pietersons "that's how I bat" comments. Hats off to him. I am starting to think Anderson is done at this level. He's gone from being our best fielder to looking like an old man once he's stiffened up after a bowling spell. Broad is a worry too. He's well down on pace at the moment. I suspect he is carrying a knock but he's had so many injuries I worry that they will catch up with him. It will be interesting to see how they balance the side if it stays dry and they need to pick a front line spinner. Jordan has done well but I think they will want to get Stokes back in. Of the front line spinners Patel at Middlesex and Riley at Kent are the ones in form but they are desperately inexperienced. I wonder whether they might make a play for Dockrell of Ireland and Somerset? Bang on about Moeen in relation to Pieterson's attitude. I think it just might be time to accept that Jimmy isn't going to be able to win us game forever. I think he's still a very good test bowler but he might not be that consistent match winning strike bowler he has been for the last 5 years. Broad's always frustrated the hell out of me - never seems to sling together 2 good performances in a row but is capable of winning games no one else could. Hard to see how you could drop either as the cupboard is a bit bare but perhaps we need to rethink strategy a bit around who does the bulk of the bowling; reducing Anderson's workload might not be the worst idea at his age. Not sure how desperate they are to work Stokes back in. Undoubtedly a quality player but upset a few people with his attitude I think and people have done well in his absence so I think making him work for it is good. Also he's struggled with fitness for a lot of thus season. There may be a case to look at Finn again. As for spinners - all of those are potentially interesting but none have really made the clear case yet with consistent match winning performances. As you say the balance of the attack is a problem and with Monty out of the equation they'll have to take a punt on someone for August tests. No one clearly stands massively out really.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 313
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 25, 2014 23:28:59 GMT
Moeen's completely out of character innings makes a mockery of Pietersons "that's how I bat" comments. Hats off to him. I am starting to think Anderson is done at this level. He's gone from being our best fielder to looking like an old man once he's stiffened up after a bowling spell. Broad is a worry too. He's well down on pace at the moment. I suspect he is carrying a knock but he's had so many injuries I worry that they will catch up with him. It will be interesting to see how they balance the side if it stays dry and they need to pick a front line spinner. Jordan has done well but I think they will want to get Stokes back in. Of the front line spinners Patel at Middlesex and Riley at Kent are the ones in form but they are desperately inexperienced. I wonder whether they might make a play for Dockrell of Ireland and Somerset? Bang on about Moeen in relation to Pieterson's attitude. I think it just might be time to accept that Jimmy isn't going to be able to win us game forever. I think he's still a very good test bowler but he might not be that consistent match winning strike bowler he has been for the last 5 years. Broad's always frustrated the hell out of me - never seems to sling together 2 good performances in a row but is capable of winning games no one else could. Hard to see how you could drop either as the cupboard is a bit bare but perhaps we need to rethink strategy a bit around who does the bulk of the bowling; reducing Anderson's workload might not be the worst idea at his age. Not sure how desperate they are to work Stokes back in. Undoubtedly a quality player but upset a few people with his attitude I think and people have done well in his absence so I think making him work for it is good. Also he's struggled with fitness for a lot of thus season. There may be a case to look at Finn again. As for spinners - all of those are potentially interesting but none have really made the clear case yet with consistent match winning performances. As you say the balance of the attack is a problem and with Monty out of the equation they'll have to take a punt on someone for August tests. No one clearly stands massively out really. I've seen Finn a couple of times this season, all be it once when he was suffering with a bug, and he still looks brittle when someone takes the game to him. Not sure he's ready yet and I think Plunkett doing well last week makes it less likely we'll see Finn in an England shirt this summer. Definitely take your point regarding Stokes. I suppose I shouldn't confuse the media hype surrounding him with selectors backing! If they go with a front line spinner I think they'll have to go with whoever is in form. They might get away without picking a spinner again in the first two tests at Trent bridge and lords though. Even if they do pick one Cook has really struggled to utilise and bring the best out of both Kerrigan and Moeen. He has seemed reluctant to bowl his spinner which can't make his bowler feel particularly confident. So much of spin bowling is between the ears that even a small knock in confidence must have a detrimental affect.
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irishrover
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Post by irishrover on Jun 26, 2014 0:53:08 GMT
Bang on about Moeen in relation to Pieterson's attitude. I think it just might be time to accept that Jimmy isn't going to be able to win us game forever. I think he's still a very good test bowler but he might not be that consistent match winning strike bowler he has been for the last 5 years. Broad's always frustrated the hell out of me - never seems to sling together 2 good performances in a row but is capable of winning games no one else could. Hard to see how you could drop either as the cupboard is a bit bare but perhaps we need to rethink strategy a bit around who does the bulk of the bowling; reducing Anderson's workload might not be the worst idea at his age. Not sure how desperate they are to work Stokes back in. Undoubtedly a quality player but upset a few people with his attitude I think and people have done well in his absence so I think making him work for it is good. Also he's struggled with fitness for a lot of thus season. There may be a case to look at Finn again. As for spinners - all of those are potentially interesting but none have really made the clear case yet with consistent match winning performances. As you say the balance of the attack is a problem and with Monty out of the equation they'll have to take a punt on someone for August tests. No one clearly stands massively out really. I've seen Finn a couple of times this season, all be it once when he was suffering with a bug, and he still looks brittle when someone takes the game to him. Not sure he's ready yet and I think Plunkett doing well last week makes it less likely we'll see Finn in an England shirt this summer. Definitely take your point regarding Stokes. I suppose I shouldn't confuse the media hype surrounding him with selectors backing! If they go with a front line spinner I think they'll have to go with whoever is in form. They might get away without picking a spinner again in the first two tests at Trent bridge and lords though. Even if they do pick one Cook has really struggled to utilise and bring the best out of both Kerrigan and Moeen. He has seemed reluctant to bowl his spinner which can't make his bowler feel particularly confident. So much of spin bowling is between the ears that even a small knock in confidence must have a detrimental affect. Well I dispute that - as a lifelong left arm (non) spinner I have absolutely nothing between the ears.....But it's definitely true that at whatever level you play it's a lot easier if your Captain backs you as a spinner. The last thing you need to be thinking is 'if I concede one more boundary I'm off' etc. Completely detrimental that's bang on. There's definitely an art to managing spinners, particularly less impressive ones or ones that are new to Tests (not so difficult with someone like Swann - 'there's your end Swanny and you can just bowl from there all afternoon!') and Cook may need to think about that. I think he did Kerrigan quite a lot of damage actually. Moeen seems a stronger personality. The problem of who to pick maybe that none of them may be in form of course! I like your shout of Dockerell by the way but I don't see that happening really. Interesting insight into Finn, I was just going by the stats that give the impression he's done quite well but that certainly isn't everything so I defer to you on that if you don't think he's ready. I saw Woakes take 5 wickets in a game early this season yet he wasn't even one of the top 3 bowlers in the Warwicks attack that day. You're certainly right that Plunkett doing well decreases the temptation to rush Finn back. I'm not sure Prior has completely answered critics either. He had a pretty poor game in all departments at Headingley but again there's not a clear standout competitor. Buttler's had a middling season at Lancs - he's done OK but is not screaming out to be picked in Tests and has done little to challenge the idea that the long format is comfortably his weakest area.
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jackthegas
David Pritchard
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Post by jackthegas on Jun 26, 2014 8:51:00 GMT
I've seen Finn a couple of times this season, all be it once when he was suffering with a bug, and he still looks brittle when someone takes the game to him. Not sure he's ready yet and I think Plunkett doing well last week makes it less likely we'll see Finn in an England shirt this summer. Definitely take your point regarding Stokes. I suppose I shouldn't confuse the media hype surrounding him with selectors backing! If they go with a front line spinner I think they'll have to go with whoever is in form. They might get away without picking a spinner again in the first two tests at Trent bridge and lords though. Even if they do pick one Cook has really struggled to utilise and bring the best out of both Kerrigan and Moeen. He has seemed reluctant to bowl his spinner which can't make his bowler feel particularly confident. So much of spin bowling is between the ears that even a small knock in confidence must have a detrimental affect. Well I dispute that - as a lifelong left arm (non) spinner I have absolutely nothing between the ears.....But it's definitely true that at whatever level you play it's a lot easier if your Captain backs you as a spinner. The last thing you need to be thinking is 'if I concede one more boundary I'm off' etc. Completely detrimental that's bang on. There's definitely an art to managing spinners, particularly less impressive ones or ones that are new to Tests (not so difficult with someone like Swann - 'there's your end Swanny and you can just bowl from there all afternoon!') and Cook may need to think about that. I think he did Kerrigan quite a lot of damage actually. Moeen seems a stronger personality. The problem of who to pick maybe that none of them may be in form of course! I like your shout of Dockerell by the way but I don't see that happening really. Interesting insight into Finn, I was just going by the stats that give the impression he's done quite well but that certainly isn't everything so I defer to you on that if you don't think he's ready. I saw Woakes take 5 wickets in a game early this season yet he wasn't even one of the top 3 bowlers in the Warwicks attack that day. You're certainly right that Plunkett doing well decreases the temptation to rush Finn back. I'm not sure Prior has completely answered critics either. He had a pretty poor game in all departments at Headingley but again there's not a clear standout competitor. Buttler's had a middling season at Lancs - he's done OK but is not screaming out to be picked in Tests and has done little to challenge the idea that the long format is comfortably his weakest area. Ah the old left arm slow bowler! Is your mystery ball the one that actually turns or the one that the batsman thinks might turn but actually still goes straight on?! I saw Woakes in a couple of the one dayers on the TV and I thought he looked more potent than he has done when I've seen him previously. Difficult to judge on TV though and he missed the championship game I saw at Edgbaston in May. Agree with regard to Prior and I'm one of his biggest fans. Buttler's stats look good this year - averaging 47 for Lancashire and has hit 4 fifty's and a hundred, but I haven't seen him play first class cricket this year. He looked a really ropey starter when I saw him bat in the Championship last year though. I think the selectors would like him to have a year or two with Lancashire to really learn how to play the longer form of the game at that level rather than on the test stage. I think the selectors will be delighted that all of the young batsmen hit hundreds and Plunkett and Jordan had a good game each. Not sure you can ask for much more than that, although I think all of the batsmen have technical flaws and are by no means the finished article. They all appear to have good temperaments though which is often enough as long as you have some ability. Cook is testament to that I think. On the other hand all of the established players had limited success. Stating the obvious but it would really help if Cook and Bell could start scoring some big hundreds again and Anderson and Broad could pick up a few five wicket hauls as the young players are bound to be up and down for a while.
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