baselswh
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Post by baselswh on Oct 17, 2024 7:08:26 GMT
Let's face it he only has to attack more in the ko stages of tournaments and who can complain? It seems it's what most of the football nation wanted. Gareth Southgates style won't hurt in qualifying and finals group stages,the stats tell us it worked. Let's just get at em more in the ko games. More to it it than that,but that seems the general gist of things It's almost a shame we can't have a dual manager system. Southgate to get us to the Quarter Finals with Tuchel then taking over for the knock out stages. Maybe they'll have a few chinwags. |
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eppinggas
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 17, 2024 7:41:31 GMT
Excellent appointment IMHO. He's a 'difficult' man to manage, which is perhaps why he falls out with Clubs working day to day 7 days a week. Chelski supporters were gutted when he left after winning the ECL. Telling Todd Boehly to 'do one' only enhances my opinion of him. Personally I think an international job would be perfect for him. No dull, diplomatic interviews ala Southgate. Tuchel was one of the early adopters of the gegenpress. Great CV where he has WON things.
England now has a realistic chance we have of actually winning something. As the Sun headlined it (I extend the headline):
Es kommt nach hause,
Es kommt nach hause, es kommt nach,
Fussball kommt nach hause.
(although it doesn't quite scan as there is an accent on the 'e' in hause).
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shakes
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Post by shakes on Oct 17, 2024 8:45:53 GMT
There has been plenty of Englishmen that have taken charge of other national teams. In these cases we think our coaches are superior.
Tuchel doesn’t really know the players so maybe this will help?
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 9:28:03 GMT
There has been plenty of Englishmen that have taken charge of other national teams. In these cases we think our coaches are superior. Tuchel doesn’t really know the players so maybe this will help? Not at all. When an English manager manages a Gulf national team or a Balkan country, I take a passing interest at best. It certainly doesn't reinforce a (non-existent) belief that English coaches are superior.
I would like the manager, the coaches, and the physio to be English. Otherwise the concept of an English national team is pointless and meaningless. I want us to take pride in not just the players, but also the coaches, managers, and physios that we produce.
This doesn't make me a little Englander, it just makes me somebody who wants to take pride in my country and its institutions.
Germany has never appointed a foreign manager, so it isn't xenophobic in the slightest to question the appointment of a German as national coach.
Incidentally, Tuchel's record is nowhere near as good as people are making out. He didn't win major honours with Dortmund, managed PSG in the farmer's league, achieved the same as Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea, and failed to win the German league with Bayern, which is probably harder than winning it
If I had Graham Taylor's pre-England CV on my desk, I would employ him over Tuchel each and every time. Likewise Allardyce, who is quite some distance removed from the caricature, and who has also objected to Tuchel's appointment.
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 9:34:57 GMT
Excellent appointment IMHO. He's a 'difficult' man to manage, which is perhaps why he falls out with Clubs working day to day 7 days a week. Chelski supporters were gutted when he left after winning the ECL. Telling Todd Boehly to 'do one' only enhances my opinion of him. Personally I think an international job would be perfect for him. No dull, diplomatic interviews ala Southgate. Tuchel was one of the early adopters of the gegenpress. Great CV where he has WON things. England now has a realistic chance we have of actually winning something. As the Sun headlined it (I extend the headline): Es kommt nach hause, Es kommt nach hause, es kommt nach, Fussball kommt nach hause. (although it doesn't quite scan as there is an accent on the 'e' in hause). There is a difference between falling out with people because you demand high standards and falling out with people because you are prickly, difficult, and cannot take criticism. Tuchel falls into the latter category, and has alienated and fallen out with people at every single club he has worked at since Dortmund.
We had a realistic chance of winning something under Southgate. There won't be a better chance than the final against a very poor Italy side.
Compare his record to Capello, who flopped badly, and he isn't even close. Capello was one of, if not the, the greatest club manager/s of the last 30 years.
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bluetornados
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Post by bluetornados on Oct 17, 2024 10:12:57 GMT
There has been plenty of Englishmen that have taken charge of other national teams. In these cases we think our coaches are superior. Tuchel doesn’t really know the players so maybe this will help? Not at all. When an English manager manages a Gulf national team or a Balkan country, I take a passing interest at best. It certainly doesn't reinforce a (non-existent) belief that English coaches are superior.
I would like the manager, the coaches, and the physio to be English. Otherwise the concept of an English national team is pointless and meaningless. I want us to take pride in not just the players, but also the coaches, managers, and physios that we produce.
This doesn't make me a little Englander, it just makes me somebody who wants to take pride in my country and its institutions.
Germany has never appointed a foreign manager, so it isn't xenophobic in the slightest to question the appointment of a German as national coach.
Incidentally, Tuchel's record is nowhere near as good as people are making out. He didn't win major honours with Dortmund, managed PSG in the farmer's league, achieved the same as Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea, and failed to win the German league with Bayern, which is probably harder than winning it
If I had Graham Taylor's pre-England CV on my desk, I would employ him over Tuchel each and every time. Likewise Allardyce, who is quite some distance removed from the caricature, and who has also objected to Tuchel's appointment.
Agree with the underlined comments...I am English and very proud to be one, i would not have a problem with the likes of: Eddie Howe, Graham Potter, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Mark Robins, Nigel Clough, Paul Warne, Michael Carrick, Chris Wilder and hey ho even Darrell Clarke. |
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Post by chelt_gas on Oct 17, 2024 10:24:41 GMT
Not at all. When an English manager manages a Gulf national team or a Balkan country, I take a passing interest at best. It certainly doesn't reinforce a (non-existent) belief that English coaches are superior.
I would like the manager, the coaches, and the physio to be English. Otherwise the concept of an English national team is pointless and meaningless. I want us to take pride in not just the players, but also the coaches, managers, and physios that we produce.
This doesn't make me a little Englander, it just makes me somebody who wants to take pride in my country and its institutions.
Germany has never appointed a foreign manager, so it isn't xenophobic in the slightest to question the appointment of a German as national coach.
Incidentally, Tuchel's record is nowhere near as good as people are making out. He didn't win major honours with Dortmund, managed PSG in the farmer's league, achieved the same as Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea, and failed to win the German league with Bayern, which is probably harder than winning it
If I had Graham Taylor's pre-England CV on my desk, I would employ him over Tuchel each and every time. Likewise Allardyce, who is quite some distance removed from the caricature, and who has also objected to Tuchel's appointment.
Agree with the underlined comments...I am English and very proud to be one, i would not have a problem with the likes of: Eddie Howe, Graham Potter, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Mark Robins, Nigel Clough, Paul Warne, Michael Carrick, Chris Wilder and hey ho even Darrell Clarke. I am English but don't get why we should be proud of our nation - we are failures in terms of international football. I don't think the English can claim club success as a national achievement given the ownership models and lack of english player representation. I agree we should have English coaches for the England job. Apart from Joseph Barton. I'd give the gig to Beckham ahead of Tommy Touchem. |
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Post by rowdenhill on Oct 17, 2024 11:12:00 GMT
He won't have any feel for the squad's banter and endless clichés.
He doesn't have an umlaut.
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 13:04:17 GMT
Not at all. When an English manager manages a Gulf national team or a Balkan country, I take a passing interest at best. It certainly doesn't reinforce a (non-existent) belief that English coaches are superior.
I would like the manager, the coaches, and the physio to be English. Otherwise the concept of an English national team is pointless and meaningless. I want us to take pride in not just the players, but also the coaches, managers, and physios that we produce.
This doesn't make me a little Englander, it just makes me somebody who wants to take pride in my country and its institutions.
Germany has never appointed a foreign manager, so it isn't xenophobic in the slightest to question the appointment of a German as national coach.
Incidentally, Tuchel's record is nowhere near as good as people are making out. He didn't win major honours with Dortmund, managed PSG in the farmer's league, achieved the same as Roberto Di Matteo at Chelsea, and failed to win the German league with Bayern, which is probably harder than winning it
If I had Graham Taylor's pre-England CV on my desk, I would employ him over Tuchel each and every time. Likewise Allardyce, who is quite some distance removed from the caricature, and who has also objected to Tuchel's appointment.
Agree with the underlined comments...I am English and very proud to be one, i would not have a problem with the likes of: Eddie Howe, Graham Potter, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Mark Robins, Nigel Clough, Paul Warne, Michael Carrick, Chris Wilder and hey ho even Darrell Clarke. Just the underlined parts? A pretty unappetising list, and thoroughly depressing given that previous England mangers included Robson, Venables and Taylor. The list from Frank Lampard onwards made me smile, and Paul Warne and Chris Wilder actually made me guffaw, despite them being about as, and perhaps more, qualified than ‘England B’ Irishman Carsley. Why not Allardyce or even Hoddle? I’ll forgive Hoddle for his ill-advised comments about the disabled in precisely the same way I previously forgave Abbott for her racist outbursts… |
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 13:12:17 GMT
He won't have any feel for the squad's banter and endless clichés. He doesn't have an umlaut. An umlaut? Nice with mushrooms...
Bantering with Tuchel would be like breakdancing with Susan Boyle...do they even have it in the Fatherland? For 'banter' you'd be best off looking to Allardyce among post-Robson managers, with Steve McClaren a distant second.
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 13:34:07 GMT
Agree with the underlined comments...I am English and very proud to be one, i would not have a problem with the likes of: Eddie Howe, Graham Potter, Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Mark Robins, Nigel Clough, Paul Warne, Michael Carrick, Chris Wilder and hey ho even Darrell Clarke. I am English but don't get why we should be proud of our nation - we are failures in terms of international football. I don't think the English can claim club success as a national achievement given the ownership models and lack of english player representation. I agree we should have English coaches for the England job. Apart from Joseph Barton. I'd give the gig to Beckham ahead of Tommy Touchem. We should be proud to be British because of our institutions and we should be proud of aspects of our past history, such as Shakespeare, the achievements of our scientists, and resisting Nazism. Of course, while doing this, we should also acknowledge the parts that were far from perfect, such as the British Empire, the establishment of BCFC1982, and James Corden.
Similarly, I don't expect Germans to speak their whole lives apologising for the fact that previous generations or Germans had an unfortunate habit of invading and occupying other countries. I want them to feel proud of their nation, and proud of the way that it has reintegrated into Europe in the post-WW2 era.
We previously produced managers of the calibre of Robson, Taylor, and Venables. I'm not going to claim that they were the 'best' in Europe - they were high-quality managers who we should take pride in having produced and who, in the case of both Robson and Venables, contributed to other countries.
Jimmy Hasselbaink may be a very good coach. But he is Dutch, and so should be a Dutch coach, not an English one. If there is a young English coach who has the potential to be as good as Jimmy, then they should be employed ahead of him. Carsley shouldn't have been anywhere near the England team, having declared his loyalties for Ireland instead and not sung the national anthem with required gusto (even Sven tried).
Everybody down to the cook and kit coach should be English and proud to be English, otherwise it is a nonsense to claim it is the English football team.
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eppinggas
Administrator
Ian Alexander
Don't care
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 8,604
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Post by eppinggas on Oct 17, 2024 14:14:54 GMT
Excellent appointment IMHO. He's a 'difficult' man to manage, which is perhaps why he falls out with Clubs working day to day 7 days a week. Chelski supporters were gutted when he left after winning the ECL. Telling Todd Boehly to 'do one' only enhances my opinion of him. Personally I think an international job would be perfect for him. No dull, diplomatic interviews ala Southgate. Tuchel was one of the early adopters of the gegenpress. Great CV where he has WON things. England now has a realistic chance we have of actually winning something. As the Sun headlined it (I extend the headline): Es kommt nach hause, Es kommt nach hause, es kommt nach, Fussball kommt nach hause. (although it doesn't quite scan as there is an accent on the 'e' in hause). There is a difference between falling out with people because you demand high standards and falling out with people because you are foolly, difficult, and cannot take criticism. Tuchel falls into the latter category, and has alienated and fallen out with people at every single club he has worked at since Dortmund.
We had a realistic chance of winning something under Southgate. There won't be a better chance than the final against a very poor Italy side.
Compare his record to Capello, who flopped badly, and he isn't even close. Capello was one of, if not the, the greatest club manager/s of the last 30 years.
Capello flopped because 1. He couldn't speak English 2. He didn't deal with the Manu / Arsenal / Liverpool cliques and 3. Encouraged all that WAG nonsense. It is just your opinion that Tuchel falls out with people because he is "foolly, difficult, and cannot take criticism". My opinion is that he he falls out with people because he demands high standards. Differing opinions. Fussball kommt nach hause. |
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Post by a more piratey game on Oct 17, 2024 14:22:24 GMT
There is a difference between falling out with people because you demand high standards and falling out with people because you are foolly, difficult, and cannot take criticism. Tuchel falls into the latter category, and has alienated and fallen out with people at every single club he has worked at since Dortmund.
We had a realistic chance of winning something under Southgate. There won't be a better chance than the final against a very poor Italy side.
Compare his record to Capello, who flopped badly, and he isn't even close. Capello was one of, if not the, the greatest club manager/s of the last 30 years.
Capello flopped because 1. He couldn't speak English 2. He didn't deal with the Manu / Arsenal / Liverpool cliques and 3. Encouraged all that WAG nonsense. It is just your opinion that Tuchel falls out with people because he is "foolly, difficult, and cannot take criticism". My opinion is that he he falls out with people because he demands high standards. Differing opinions. Fussball kommt nach hause. Hause. As it’s a Noun |
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 14:38:07 GMT
There is a difference between falling out with people because you demand high standards and falling out with people because you are foolly, difficult, and cannot take criticism. Tuchel falls into the latter category, and has alienated and fallen out with people at every single club he has worked at since Dortmund.
We had a realistic chance of winning something under Southgate. There won't be a better chance than the final against a very poor Italy side.
Compare his record to Capello, who flopped badly, and he isn't even close. Capello was one of, if not the, the greatest club manager/s of the last 30 years.
Capello flopped because 1. He couldn't speak English 2. He didn't deal with the Manu / Arsenal / Liverpool cliques and 3. Encouraged all that WAG nonsense. It is just your opinion that Tuchel falls out with people because he is "foolly, difficult, and cannot take criticism". My opinion is that he he falls out with people because he demands high standards. Differing opinions. Fussball kommt nach hause. Pochettino could not speak English, and achieved a high level of success with Soton and Tottenham. Guardiola's English is also not that good, and neither was Ferguson's 
The performances under Capello were nowhere near expectations, and the 4-1 defeat to Germany was catastrophically bad. The team did not progress under him in the way expected.
Compare that shambles to the performances put in by the Hoddle '98' side, including against Italy in Rome, and Argentina. They were a drilled and well-coached outfit.
At every club he has been at since Dortmund, Tuchel has been dismissed because of his handling of off-field stuff, most notably professional relations.This is most likely why he was only given an 18-month contract by the FA.
Bayern as a club already had the highest of standards - do you think they or their players would have an issue with Tuchel because of this? Read the comments by BM's president after Tuchel's appointment.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 17, 2024 16:15:20 GMT
Strange how we (or some of we) change our stance on managerial posts relating to the geographic area of birth when it comes to national teams as opposed to local?
Why restrict or confine yourself or put yourself in a box?
Surely, as in everything in this beautiful sport, it's natural selection of the strongest and the best person for the job should therefore be appointed whatever the candidate is*, disregarding everything else?
Our last 3 promotion managers have come from nowhere near Bristol, so it's just a matter of where you draw the line on boundaries...
* Unless he allegedly beats his missus up, obviously!
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Post by rideintothesun on Oct 17, 2024 16:39:02 GMT
Strange how we (or some of we) change our stance on managerial posts relating to the geographic area of birth when it comes to national teams as opposed to local? Why restrict or confine yourself or put yourself in a box? Surely, as in everything in this beautiful sport, it's natural selection of the strongest and the best person for the job should therefore be appointed whatever the candidate is*, disregarding everything else? Our last 3 promotion managers have come from nowhere near Bristol, so it's just a matter of where you draw the line on boundaries... * Unless he allegedly beats his missus up, obviously! If you spoke to most Rovers fans, their preference would be for a team of 11 Bristolians managed by a Bristolian. Athletic Bilbao have a Basque-only policy on players. Would you say they were 'putting themselves in a box' or valuing and preserving their identity?
Most fans express a desire to see more local players like Lee Archer, Andy Gurney and Marcus Stewart in the team, and would like to see the club prioritising their development. Is there anything wrong with this?
The purpose of the national team is to represent England. This is its very raison d'etre. It embodies who we are, and gives us a sense of identity. If appointing a lesser qualified (and Tuchel's qualifications aren't actually that impressive when compared against previous England coaches, most notably Capello) manager results in less success, then so be it.
The FA need to see the appointment of Tuchel as a failure, and get back to producing English coaches and managers of the calibre of Robson, Taylor, and Venables.
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Cheshiregas
Global Moderator
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Posts: 2,979
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Post by Cheshiregas on Oct 17, 2024 17:08:07 GMT
An England fan who lives in our village said that Carsley should never have been made manager of the England team as he refused to sing the National Anthem.
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Post by a more piratey game on Oct 17, 2024 18:31:42 GMT
Modern life is complex, with many people being ‘from’ a range of places
It seems to me that what RITS is proposing is more relevant to an LS Lowery painting than to modern reality
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 17, 2024 18:56:41 GMT
Strange how we (or some of we) change our stance on managerial posts relating to the geographic area of birth when it comes to national teams as opposed to local? Why restrict or confine yourself or put yourself in a box? Surely, as in everything in this beautiful sport, it's natural selection of the strongest and the best person for the job should therefore be appointed whatever the candidate is*, disregarding everything else? Our last 3 promotion managers have come from nowhere near Bristol, so it's just a matter of where you draw the line on boundaries... * Unless he allegedly beats his missus up, obviously! If you spoke to most Rovers fans, their preference would be for a team of 11 Bristolians managed by a Bristolian. Athletic Bilbao have a Basque-only policy on players. Would you say they were 'putting themselves in a box' or valuing and preserving their identity?
Most fans express a desire to see more local players like Lee Archer, Andy Gurney and Marcus Stewart in the team, and would like to see the club prioritising their development. Is there anything wrong with this?
The purpose of the national team is to represent England. This is its very raison d'etre. It embodies who we are, and gives us a sense of identity. If appointing a lesser qualified (and Tuchel's qualifications aren't actually that impressive when compared against previous England coaches, most notably Capello) manager results in less success, then so be it.
The FA need to see the appointment of Tuchel as a failure, and get back to producing English coaches and managers of the calibre of Robson, Taylor, and Venables.
Ah no offence, but I see that the Tuchel appointment is always a yes man from FA and rather to suit that agenda, than the true purpose to represent England. And our identity suffers because of this! Southgate won us nothing and veritably threw every attacking resource at his mercy when we were screaming for an attacking alternative in multiples of matches...grrrrr! I'm not fussed who represents us, Bristolians or otherwise...met plenty of Bristolian idiots as good people...the same with nationals and foreign nationals. I maintain we should pick the right person for the job. Not necessarily the most qualified. Just the one whom can coach the best out of a mixture of youth and experience and construct players that are capable of expressing themselves and perhaps, just perhaps becoming successful in a trophy hunt or two. With the amount of money and resources at multiple levels, as with Gas, I remain in hope rather than expectation! |
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Post by alftupper on Oct 18, 2024 6:38:39 GMT
Strange how we (or some of we) change our stance on managerial posts relating to the geographic area of birth when it comes to national teams as opposed to local? Why restrict or confine yourself or put yourself in a box? Surely, as in everything in this beautiful sport, it's natural selection of the strongest and the best person for the job should therefore be appointed whatever the candidate is*, disregarding everything else? Our last 3 promotion managers have come from nowhere near Bristol, so it's just a matter of where you draw the line on boundaries... * Unless he allegedly beats his missus up, obviously!
The purpose of the national team is to represent England. This is its very raison d'etre.
I don`t think that`s how the FA sees it. They see the purpose of the national team as being to win football matches, rather than representing their country. And if the rules allow them to appoint a non English coach to help them achieve this, then that`s what they`ll do. The rules also allow them to consistently pick a holding midfield player, who has already represented a foreign country ( three times ), and so they do this too. I don`t disagree with your viewpoint ( and it`s most eloquently put ), but until the rules are changed, the FA will keep sailing on the same course. A bit like Captain Smith, some might say... |
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