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Post by timothyq on Sept 2, 2014 20:22:59 GMT
Evening Gents, I remember a few years ago some guy (probable troll) started a controversial thread about us becoming a feeder club for City. His argument was that we would get greater continuity in developing young Bristolian players, allow us to strengthen our first team whilst keeping our wage budget down, and take advantage of mutual commercial advantages from a closer relationship. I'm wondering if our current position has changed any views in relation to this, and if a closer partnership might now be something we, as fans, would accept? The positives for the scheme would be: - Access to city's young players and flexibility of loanees.
- We could potentially have a shared academy / centre of excellence, this would give us lots of flexibility and allow us to keep our wage bill down as we'd be able to tap into a large number of competent youth / city reverse players when our first XI are unavailable.
- A first option on rovers players who develop further would allow the numbers people to plan for income further forward. For instance the staff at city might commit early to buy such a player at the end of the season for £X, which would enable the board to recruit a replacement in advance.
- The new benefit given the UWE stadium looks like falling through we may be able to work out a deal to use Ashton Gate for home games. This will deliver a much better gate than Bath or similar, keep the home games in Bristol and allow us to sell the Mem to sort out our finances.
I'm sure a number of people with will not see the benefit of this idea, or will see the benefits but refuse to contemplate it regardless, but my view is that it would be foolish for a club in our position not to take advantage of a higher division club within the same city, esspecially as neither we nor they see us as competition. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say?
Tim
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gonzales
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 55
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Post by gonzales on Sept 2, 2014 20:35:57 GMT
Gasheads need not reply.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 20:39:50 GMT
Somebody please tell me I didn't read that. The advantages of Rovers being City's feeder club FFS!! Defo a wind up LOL. Hop aboard the crazy train Tim. A one way ticket out of town.
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Post by timothyq on Sept 2, 2014 20:44:02 GMT
Somebody please tell me I didn't read that. The advantages of Rovers being City's feeder club FFS!! Defo a wind up LOL. Hop aboard the crazy train Tim. A one way ticket out of town. No, I'm being sincere. I don't like the words 'feeder' and 'parent' club as I think the partnership would work both ways, essentially we would be feeding each other, I only used the word 'feeder' as that's the term people use and understand. Either way, it's just a thought, if you're not willing to discuss the possibility then fine.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 20:48:28 GMT
Somebody please tell me I didn't read that. The advantages of Rovers being City's feeder club FFS!! Defo a wind up LOL. Hop aboard the crazy train Tim. A one way ticket out of town. No, I'm being sincere. I don't like the words 'feeder' and 'parent' club as I think the partnership would work both ways, essentially we would be feeding each other, I only used the word 'feeder' as that's the term people use and understand. Either way, it's just a thought, if you're not willing to discuss the possibility then fine. I will say two words which will lead to there being only ONE team in Bristol if what you are suggesting happens..Steve Lansdown! Surely any Rovers supporter can see that?
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Post by Two Headed Sex Beast on Sept 2, 2014 20:52:15 GMT
I read the first sentence then stopped reading. Nothing to see here.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Sept 2, 2014 20:59:45 GMT
Well I have to commend you for thinking outside the box but as crazytrain has alluded to this would eventually see the death knell to Rovers. Keep your idea's coming though.
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Post by timothyq on Sept 2, 2014 21:00:22 GMT
No, I'm being sincere. I don't like the words 'feeder' and 'parent' club as I think the partnership would work both ways, essentially we would be feeding each other, I only used the word 'feeder' as that's the term people use and understand. Either way, it's just a thought, if you're not willing to discuss the possibility then fine. I will say two words which will lead to there being only ONE team in Bristol if what you are suggesting happens..Steve Lansdown! Surely any Rovers supporter can see that? Surely it would be some sort of conflict of interest for SL to own 2 clubs? I don't suppose you've considered that there being 2 clubs in Bristol actually benefit Rovers and City if they work together to get the best out of their resources. Frankly, a refusal to look at the benefits of co-operation smacks of a mentality where we'd accept a poor Rovers as long as it came with a poor City and this cannot be a sensible attitude in our current position.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Sept 2, 2014 21:07:33 GMT
I will say two words which will lead to there being only ONE team in Bristol if what you are suggesting happens..Steve Lansdown! Surely any Rovers supporter can see that? Surely it would be some sort of conflict of interest for SL to own 2 clubs? I don't suppose you've considered that there being 2 clubs in Bristol actually benefit Rovers and City if they work together to get the best out of their resources. Frankly, a refusal to look at the benefits of co-operation smacks of a mentality where we'd accept a poor Rovers as long as it came with a poor City and this cannot be a sensible attitude in our current position. And there lies the crux of the matter in your last sentence and why the majority of Gasheads would be unable to accept your proposal. SL wouldn't be allowed to own two clubs, and we can't work together, we're rivals remember !
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Post by timothyq on Sept 2, 2014 21:18:49 GMT
Given we're 2 leagues apart I don't think we can really call ourselves 'rivals' of city, also, there's no reason for SL to own both clubs, just for us to work together. Given a relationship between the clubs could only exist whilst there is a mutual interest, it's logical that if we were ever playing in the same league then this relationship would end. But in our current position I'm struggling to see any effective arguments against it. The only restriction I can see is how many of the benefits we're able to sell to City.
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jozer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 365
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Post by jozer on Sept 2, 2014 21:57:54 GMT
Makes I laff!
One of the many things we can thank Lawd Dunfukawl for is the almost total withdrawal of Rovers from the development of football. Under GoD & his disciple Higgs we have become a club that regards that 'football' stuff as something you buy in from elsewhere, with hilarious results!
Time was when Rovers had a team of scouts & trainers who would scour the lower leagues (i.e. the one we're in now) and unearth potential players, who would do a job for us for a couple of years while getting better & better, and then sell on at a hearty profit. With the outstanding exception of Lambert it has been a long time since this happened.
Now Higgs 'strategy' is to throw 'one of the largest budgets in this division' at his latest manager so [insert name here] can buy in a load of journeymen from whatever club he was at before, who are left to amble aimlessly around the pitch without any training or development, and then Higgs can sack [insert name here] six months later when this groundbreaking approach has somehow inexplicably failed to drive Rovers to the top of the [insert name here] League Table.
The idea that we are in a fit state to be a feeder club for ourselves, let alone anyone else, really doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. The one thing you can predict with utter certainty about any player who comes to Rovers, however good they might be, is that while they are with us they won't get any better.
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Sept 2, 2014 22:01:08 GMT
Given we're 2 leagues apart I don't think we can really call ourselves 'rivals' of city, also, there's no reason for SL to own both clubs, just for us to work together. Given a relationship between the clubs could only exist whilst there is a mutual interest, it's logical that if we were ever playing in the same league then this relationship would end. But in our current position I'm struggling to see any effective arguments against it. The only restriction I can see is how many of the benefits we're able to sell to City. It's a historical rivalry, we don't have to be in the same league to maintain that. If there was ever a logical consideration to any of this the clubs would have merged years ago, it's just not going to happen. Both clubs have their own identity, many would never accept a merger nor would they accept 'working together', however logical that might seem. It's totally illogical I know but that's the parochial nature of football rivalry.
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Post by DudeLebowski on Sept 2, 2014 22:15:56 GMT
Appreciate the effort it must have taken to write such a lengthy post, but I gave it two lines and packed it in.
Feeder club? Partnership?
What on f***ing earth are these suggestions?
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Post by nonleaguegas on Sept 2, 2014 22:44:46 GMT
he's one of the many 82ers with far too much time on their hands. www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/102291-non-league-bristol-rovers/page-161over 7,000 replies on a thread that is supposed to piss us off haha i just laugh, surely its their longest ever thread? even longer then their matchday thread when they were 90 minutes away from the premiership probably.7,200 replies on a thread about a " pointless, small, non league club seems a bit strange. There's more replies then they had fans against Oxford a few weeks back, how bad is that. Quite a funny read really, they seem to make stuff about deluded things us rovers fans have said ( even though we haven't ) such as: Barcelona of non league and how we say we take thousands everywhere, deluded teds.
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jozer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 365
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Post by jozer on Sept 3, 2014 2:17:25 GMT
7,200+ posts & counting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's face it they'd be gutted to lose us. The only thing that makes them look any good at all is being stood next to Rovers.
6/7 years back they were one game away from the Prem and about to start building a 30,000 seater new gaff. Roll on to today, & they're still at Trashton, stuck in Div 3 and sugar daddy is losing patience. Plus they can lose a whole 5,000 seater end for the season without any effect on their attendances.
If Rovers went under they'd still be sh1t, and they'd have no one else left to laugh at.
I Thought about logging in to that forum to give 'em some back, but then I just couldn't be bothered.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 5:42:47 GMT
Makes I laff! One of the many things we can thank Lawd Dunfukawl for is the almost total withdrawal of Rovers from the development of football. Under GoD & his disciple Higgs we have become a club that regards that 'football' stuff as something you buy in from elsewhere, with hilarious results! Time was when Rovers had a team of scouts & trainers who would scour the lower leagues (i.e. the one we're in now) and unearth potential players, who would do a job for us for a couple of years while getting better & better, and then sell on at a hearty profit. With the outstanding exception of Lambert it has been a long time since this happened. Now Higgs 'strategy' is to throw 'one of the largest budgets in this division' at his latest manager so [insert name here] can buy in a load of journeymen from whatever club he was at before, who are left to amble aimlessly around the pitch without any training or development, and then Higgs can sack [insert name here] six months later when this groundbreaking approach has somehow inexplicably failed to drive Rovers to the top of the [insert name here] League Table. The idea that we are in a fit state to be a feeder club for ourselves, let alone anyone else, really doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. The one thing you can predict with utter certainty about any player who comes to Rovers, however good they might be, is that while they are with us they won't get any better. I agree with a lot of this post,Rovers do seem to have gone backwards in scouting although DC has brought in some players who I think will turn out to be decent. Coaching..I went to watch Sabadell in Spain twice last season,English players just don't seem to have the basic skills of the Spanish players ( control and accurate passing) it was a joy to watch and was surely down to the way they have been coached ? I wouldn't like to see Rovers become a feeder club and lose their identity ( although we aren't the club we were when we returned to Bristol IMO ) also the interest in a feeder club in Spain for instance seems poor,Sabadell played a 2nd division derby game with Barcelona B who brought about 20 fans ( Barca B played good football with good players too). Rovers really seem to miss the combination league IMO,there are no games to give squad players a chance to play,or give returning injured players a chance to get match fit or to give triallists a chance,surely the South west and Welsh clubs could organise a regional reserve league without to much expense,I think it would be most beneficial. On the OPs original post the only item that would interest me ( maybe) would be having one academy and sharing the costs although it would probably lead to more problems unless properly managed.
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Post by timothyq on Sept 3, 2014 9:16:27 GMT
Okay, evidently people see the threat of a 'merger' as a problem, however I don't see this as being the case. There is a strong argument that both Bristol teams are stronger when the other is strong, although this is purely speculative, I wouldn't be surprised if our recruitment struggled when City got relegated as we were in competition for players and their youth / reserve players were suddenly getting more football when they otherwise might have looked for a new club without relocating. Likewise, a strong Rovers will improve the talent development in Bristol and give the City youngsters a strong team in which to continue their development whilst doing a good job for. I do not feel that this would lead to any sort of merger, although I understand many people subscribe to the fallacy that if you step onto the slope you automatically slide to the bottom and will oppose any sort of co-operation. So can someone please explain exactly how you see a 'feeder' (although I hate the word) relationship with city will damage our identity as a club and risk a merger? I simply don't see the threat and if such a threat existed I think our future would be more at risk from doing nothing when such a good opportunity could be on our doorstep.
Also, as another poster pointed out, the nature of football support isn't always logical, but when we're operating at a loss, getting to grips with a new league with a possible legal battle on the horizon and with only directors loans keeping the club solvent it is probably the time to think logically rather than emotionally. If the UWE deal falls through, the future of the club could still be secured by selling the Mem if another buyer was found, if this happens and we have to find a new, perhaps temporary home, can someone put forward a logical, sensible objection to Ashton Gate (if a compromise can be worked with City and the rugby club of course)? Would you really rather be at Bath or back at Twerton just because of our historic rivalry with a club 2 tiers above us on the pyramid?
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Teigngas
Steve White
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 265
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Post by Teigngas on Sept 3, 2014 9:29:20 GMT
I think the way you have worded it is what is causing the problem. If you have said both Bristol teams work together then you might get a different response. However I don`t ever want to move to Trashton, it just feels wrong, but if both clubs jointly put forward a new stadium plan I would not necessarily be against this. (As long as its not South of the river).
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 9:41:58 GMT
Okay, evidently people see the threat of a 'merger' as a problem, however I don't see this as being the case. There is a strong argument that both Bristol teams are stronger when the other is strong, although this is purely speculative, I wouldn't be surprised if our recruitment struggled when City got relegated as we were in competition for players and their youth / reserve players were suddenly getting more football when they otherwise might have looked for a new club without relocating. Likewise, a strong Rovers will improve the talent development in Bristol and give the City youngsters a strong team in which to continue their development whilst doing a good job for. I do not feel that this would lead to any sort of merger, although I understand many people subscribe to the fallacy that if you step onto the slope you automatically slide to the bottom and will oppose any sort of co-operation. So can someone please explain exactly how you see a 'feeder' (although I hate the word) relationship with city will damage our identity as a club and risk a merger? I simply don't see the threat and if such a threat existed I think our future would be more at risk from doing nothing when such a good opportunity could be on our doorstep.
Also, as another poster pointed out, the nature of football support isn't always logical, but when we're operating at a loss, getting to grips with a new league with a possible legal battle on the horizon and with only directors loans keeping the club solvent it is probably the time to think logically rather than emotionally. If the UWE deal falls through, the future of the club could still be secured by selling the Mem if another buyer was found, if this happens and we have to find a new, perhaps temporary home, can someone put forward a logical, sensible objection to Ashton Gate (if a compromise can be worked with City and the rugby club of course)? Would you really rather be at Bath or back at Twerton just because of our historic rivalry with a club 2 tiers above us on the pyramid? Perhaps some people see the term "feeder club" as another name for reserve team ?..Real Madrids B team is called Real Castilla I don't think that they have a separate identity though,more realistic is Barcelonas Barcelona B...is that what Rovers would become Citys B team ? then no thank you. I have discussed the idea of a return to Twerton and come to the conclusion that A.a lot of money would have to be spent on the stadium,and B.the fans who travelled there are now 20 years older and I think less likely to do it again long term ( both could be wrong). I don't think that Ashton Gate would be a long term solution either,maybe a ground share with Clifton rugby club ? if Rovers could find the money to buy in and develop the "stadium". Other than that I don't know,Rovers have been looking for a home since the 70s ( perhaps before that) and bought the Hambrook training ground hoping to develop it,maybe if a decent council would have ear marked a site for both clubs to build and share a ground in the past the future would look a bit more secure now.
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brizzle
Lindsay Parsons
No Buy . . . No Sell!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,293
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Post by brizzle on Sept 3, 2014 15:04:34 GMT
Makes I laff! One of the many things we can thank Lawd Dunfukawl for is the almost total withdrawal of Rovers from the development of football. Under GoD & his disciple Higgs we have become a club that regards that 'football' stuff as something you buy in from elsewhere, with hilarious results! Time was when Rovers had a team of scouts & trainers who would scour the lower leagues (i.e. the one we're in now) and unearth potential players, who would do a job for us for a couple of years while getting better & better, and then sell on at a hearty profit. With the outstanding exception of Lambert it has been a long time since this happened. Now Higgs 'strategy' is to throw 'one of the largest budgets in this division' at his latest manager so [insert name here] can buy in a load of journeymen from whatever club he was at before, who are left to amble aimlessly around the pitch without any training or development, and then Higgs can sack [insert name here] six months later when this groundbreaking approach has somehow inexplicably failed to drive Rovers to the top of the [insert name here] League Table. The idea that we are in a fit state to be a feeder club for ourselves, let alone anyone else, really doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. The one thing you can predict with utter certainty about any player who comes to Rovers, however good they might be, is that while they are with us they won't get any better.Spot on jozer, except possibly for the last sentence. As for the thread posted by tim, well it's clearly a wind-up or ridiculous on ever-so-many fronts, assuming that it's genuine that is.
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